Official Denver Broncos Thread

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  • SkeeterJD
    Rookie
    • Jan 2009
    • 64

    #1906
    Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

    Originally posted by Broncos86
    Step back for just one second, quit blindly looking at wins, and take a look at what Tebow is doing.
    Is Tebow unconventional? Yes. But Denver hasn't won 2 consecutive games in 2 years! 2 YEARS! What I see with my "blinders" on is that Tebow is winning games. And he's winning games with basically the same team that Orton floundered around with...minus Brandon Lloyd! (I only bring up Orton because it seems thats more the type of QB you would rather have)

    Last time I checked, Kansas City were paid professionals. And you can't tell me after the 20th consecutive running play they weren't thinking "I wonder if they are going to run it?" and Denver still gashed them for almost 250 yards. I give a ton of credit to the offensive line. Kansas City knew they were going to run ball and they were still effective.

    You can criticize Tebow all you want after a win, but I think that's short sighted. Especially with how hard it's been for Denver to win games. I seriously get the feeling you would've been happier if the numbers were flipped and Tebow threw for 245 and they rushed for 69 and they lost.

    I'm going to take this win and be extremely happy that Denver has finally won 2 in a row - conventional or not. Do I think that Tebow is Denver's next QB? Not sure yet, but I am certainly not going to chastise the guy after a win.
    Last edited by SkeeterJD; 11-14-2011, 12:47 PM. Reason: Orton Disclaimer

    Comment

    • Jonsco28
      Bob Loblaw
      • Sep 2008
      • 1057

      #1907
      Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

      You sound so bitter, 86. Why? The Broncos won...enjoy it. It's the first time in two years that they have won back-to-back games. It's almost like you'd rather see Orton back in there throwing for his 300+ yards, 2 TD's and a loss. Tebow wasn't calling the plays. I don't see it as a regression. It's like you are expecting him to evolve into a Brady-like QB immediately. He's never going to be that, but he didn't regress yesterday. So he only completed 2 passes. So what? Three passes could've easily have been caught, and he connected on a beautifully thrown pass to Decker when they really needed it.

      I'll admit that the playcalling was frustrating at times, but what they did yesterday worked. Give Tebow time. It's not going to happen right away. He's winning ball games, albeit in a very unconventional manner. Whether you believe it or not, just being on the field is helping Tebow's development. He's getting a chance to see what defenses are doing, and it will help him.

      Denver lost their two starting RB's early, and they still had their way with the Chief's. The Chief's knew what was coming, and they still couldn't stop it. The defense played great. In the past, Denver would have folded in the second half following the Chief's TD.

      They've won 3 road games in a row - two against divisional opponents. If Denver can win games like this, what's going to happen when Tebow gets more experience and improves his passing skills? I believe he will, and that will make the Broncos that much more difficult to defend.

      Comment

      • kehlis
        Moderator
        • Jul 2008
        • 27738

        #1908
        Moreno done for the year.

        Comment

        • Jonsco28
          Bob Loblaw
          • Sep 2008
          • 1057

          #1909
          Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

          Originally posted by kehlis
          Moreno done for the year.
          I figured that was coming. Lance Ball will step in and it sounds like McGahee will be ready for Thursday night.

          Comment

          • av7
            Hall Of Fame
            • Dec 2007
            • 11408

            #1910
            Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

            What a short, unimpressive career for him. He's not even a free agent until 2015 but that can't stop the team from moving away on a glass constructed RB.

            Lance Ball finally gets a real shot now
            Aaron
            Moderator

            Comment

            • SkeeterJD
              Rookie
              • Jan 2009
              • 64

              #1911
              Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

              Moreno always had glimpses of greatness, but he never seemed to get the yards when it mattered.

              Here's hoping that if Ball has to come in that he can handle the work load. I would think that they will use Mcgahee in a limited capacity against the Jets if he can heal in this short week.

              They still have Jerimiah Johnson on the practice squad. You would have to think they would be activating him this week.

              Comment

              • Broncos86
                Orange and Blue!
                • May 2009
                • 5505

                #1912
                Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                Originally posted by Jonsco28
                You sound so bitter, 86. Why? The Broncos won...enjoy it. It's the first time in two years that they have won back-to-back games. It's almost like you'd rather see Orton back in there throwing for his 300+ yards, 2 TD's and a loss. Tebow wasn't calling the plays. I don't see it as a regression. It's like you are expecting him to evolve into a Brady-like QB immediately. He's never going to be that, but he didn't regress yesterday. So he only completed 2 passes. So what? Three passes could've easily have been caught, and he connected on a beautifully thrown pass to Decker when they really needed it.

                I'll admit that the playcalling was frustrating at times, but what they did yesterday worked. Give Tebow time. It's not going to happen right away. He's winning ball games, albeit in a very unconventional manner. Whether you believe it or not, just being on the field is helping Tebow's development. He's getting a chance to see what defenses are doing, and it will help him.

                Denver lost their two starting RB's early, and they still had their way with the Chief's. The Chief's knew what was coming, and they still couldn't stop it. The defense played great. In the past, Denver would have folded in the second half following the Chief's TD.

                They've won 3 road games in a row - two against divisional opponents. If Denver can win games like this, what's going to happen when Tebow gets more experience and improves his passing skills? I believe he will, and that will make the Broncos that much more difficult to defend.
                Because I know what's coming. These are gimmick wins, built upon paper and air. We're fooling people, but you can only fool people for so long. I want to win, but I want to win on a sustainable game plan. Tebow is learning nothing and we're learning nothing. Maybe the coaching staff already knows what their Tebow plans are. But honestly, I'd rather see Tebow make strides in a legit manner at QB instead of masking his faults. HOW can Tebow be improving his passing skills right now? He's not passing! And let me tell you, he's not working on it in practice. Practice is for learning the week's game plan. Which means he's spending the week running these option plays.He will make ZERO progress this year because of this.

                And no, "just being on the field" doesn't help him with reading defenses, throwing more accurate passes, or any of that. That's magical garbage if you think otherwise. You don't get better by just standing on the grass. You don't become more accurate by running the ball. These game plans are MASSIVELY detrimental to Tebow in the long run. He's losing valuable game footage and game experience. Instead of learning what he did wrong on an INT, he had video of him reading a DE on an option run.

                Any game now, this game plan is going to come crashing down, and Tebow will be left exactly where he was 5 games ago. He'll have such little experience to fall back on, and very little game footage to use to study with. Rookie QBs have to take their lumps, they have to learn the hard way. You don't learn how fast CBs close the window until you've seen it first hand.

                Originally posted by av7
                What a short, unimpressive career for him. He's not even a free agent until 2015 but that can't stop the team from moving away on a glass constructed RB.

                Lance Ball finally gets a real shot now
                Lance Ball is a solid running back, I'm interested in seeing him more. Jeremiah Johnson was activated from the practice squad, and this kid ran the ball VERY well in the preseason.

                I feel for Moreno, because he battled hard. It's not his fault that he's injury prone, and that has to be a very frustrating thing to deal with. Nevertheless, you have to stay healthy, and it seemed like ordinary tackles would injure him. But yeah, Moreno is done.

                Comment

                • Aggies7
                  All Star
                  • Jan 2005
                  • 9495

                  #1913
                  I like Lance Ball. and with Moreno out I am excited to see what Ball can do the rest of the year.

                  But I am sick of Moreno and Thomas. Seems like every game one of them is hurt or making costly mistakes.

                  As far as Tebow it hasn't been pretty but some how he gets the job done. I hope with a full off season he can improve with making reads and gets his timing down with all the WR.
                  Last edited by Aggies7; 11-14-2011, 05:19 PM.
                  Texas A&M Aggies
                  Denver Broncos

                  Colorado Avalanche
                  Colorado Rockies

                  Comment

                  • Jonsco28
                    Bob Loblaw
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1057

                    #1914
                    Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                    Originally posted by Broncos86
                    Because I know what's coming. These are gimmick wins, built upon paper and air. We're fooling people, but you can only fool people for so long. I want to win, but I want to win on a sustainable game plan. Tebow is learning nothing and we're learning nothing. Maybe the coaching staff already knows what their Tebow plans are. But honestly, I'd rather see Tebow make strides in a legit manner at QB instead of masking his faults. HOW can Tebow be improving his passing skills right now? He's not passing! And let me tell you, he's not working on it in practice. Practice is for learning the week's game plan. Which means he's spending the week running these option plays.He will make ZERO progress this year because of this.

                    And no, "just being on the field" doesn't help him with reading defenses, throwing more accurate passes, or any of that. That's magical garbage if you think otherwise. You don't get better by just standing on the grass. You don't become more accurate by running the ball. These game plans are MASSIVELY detrimental to Tebow in the long run. He's losing valuable game footage and game experience. Instead of learning what he did wrong on an INT, he had video of him reading a DE on an option run.

                    Any game now, this game plan is going to come crashing down, and Tebow will be left exactly where he was 5 games ago. He'll have such little experience to fall back on, and very little game footage to use to study with. Rookie QBs have to take their lumps, they have to learn the hard way. You don't learn how fast CBs close the window until you've seen it first hand.
                    I think you are expecting too much too soon. Just because this is how the game played out doesn't mean that Tebow can't develop. Maybe he won't, I don't know. I do know that he's made plays when it matters.

                    I disagree that these are 'gimmick' wins. They ran the ball and the Chiefs knew what was coming. They still couldn't stop it. AND...they did it with their third string running back and fullback. I thought their running plays were creative, not gimmicky. So Tebow didn't throw the ball much. Who cares? You can't evaluate him based on what they did yesterday. I don't think he attempted two passes in a row. Fox probably figured that with the way their defense was playing, the only way that they could get beat would be to turn the ball over. As a result, they kept running it. Why deviate? For the most part, it was working. Things got tight when KC scored their TD, and Tebow made a huge throw when they really needed it. He made the play when it mattered.

                    I do agree that he is going to have to throw more...eventually. But right now, this is working. It's not like a guy like Orton is running this offense. Tebow is built like a linebacker. He really didn't take any hard shots yesterday. You can argue that teams will catch on to what Denver is doing, but I don't know...this is something only Denver is running. Teams don't prepare for this on a regular basis because they never see it. The Jets have three days to prepare for what Denver does. Denver prepares for it every week. They will add more and more wrinkles, and the passing game will become more of a part of it.

                    I'd like to see them throw in some roll-outs and screen passes. If they can work in some quick passes and take the occassional shot downfield, Denver and Tebow are going to present a multitude of problems for defenses.

                    Being on the field DOES help him. He will get more and more comfortable running the offense and that will lead to more confidence. Give him a chance. Letting him spray the ball all over the field isn't a good idea when they have other ways of getting it done and still be successful. The Broncos are doing the right thing and they are playing to his strengths.

                    This is going to be a process. He's going to have some horrible games. Bank on it. My guess is the Jet game is going to be one of them. It will be interesting to see how he handles it. I just don't think you are going to see Tebow throwing the ball a lot until it becomes a necessity.

                    Comment

                    • Broncos86
                      Orange and Blue!
                      • May 2009
                      • 5505

                      #1915
                      Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                      You tell me the last team that sustained a read-option offense, or a team that sustained success using the wild cat. They're gimmicky game plans because they depend upon tricking people using the unknown.

                      Once teams figured out Ronnie Brown wouldn't throw the ball and almost NEVER handed the ball to Ricky Williams, Miami's lil' Wild Cat experiment came crashing down.

                      After the Broncos went 6 - 0, teams figured out Kyle Orton wouldn't or couldn't throw the ball deep. Moreover, they realized the McDaniels' Broncos couldn't run the ball. They packed the box, blitzed like crazy, and dared Orton to beat them with something else. The Broncos couldn't adjust and we fell back to Earth quickly.

                      This is what's going to happen to the Broncos this year. Teams will run-blitz and dare Tebow to beat them with his arm. He won't be able to do it, and everything will be for naught. It's trickery that has found success due to teams not knowing that Tebow wouldn't throw the ball that much. Teams now "get" it. It's one-dimensional. To proclaim that 'right now, this is working' is short-sighted in my opinion. We fooled a couple bad teams.

                      And where does this "confidence" come into play? Confidence in what? Throwing the ball? Making reads? I'm rather sure Tebow knows how to do things like stand behind the center, hand off the ball, and pitch it. He has ZERO confidence in dropping back from under center, making a read, and getting the ball out of his hand quickly and accurately. You DO NOT gain confidence by not doing something. You think he'll just magically get better?

                      Either way, until Tim Tebow can start proving he's making strides (which I've talked about pages ago), then each week will be a further and further disappointment for me in him. The rest of the Broncos? Awesome stuff. Massive kudos to the offensive line, the defense, etc. When my QB goes 2 for 8 and 69 yards, I have to say he really didn't do that much. I want to give bigger props to Britton Colquitt, who pinned the Chiefs inside the 20 FOUR times (several were inside the ten).

                      Comment

                      • Aggies7
                        All Star
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 9495

                        #1916
                        I agree defenses are going to figure out that Tebow is struggling throwing the ball and will stack the box to stop McGhee/Ball/Tebow.

                        Hopefully he can start make strides in the passing game.

                        But hey if we build a great defense and all Tebow has to do is manage game and not make mistakes then this could work in the future.
                        Texas A&M Aggies
                        Denver Broncos

                        Colorado Avalanche
                        Colorado Rockies

                        Comment

                        • SkeeterJD
                          Rookie
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 64

                          #1917
                          Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                          Originally posted by Broncos86
                          Once teams figured out Ronnie Brown wouldn't throw the ball and almost NEVER handed the ball to Ricky Williams, Miami's lil' Wild Cat experiment came crashing down.

                          After the Broncos went 6 - 0, teams figured out Kyle Orton wouldn't or couldn't throw the ball deep. Moreover, they realized the McDaniels' Broncos couldn't run the ball. They packed the box, blitzed like crazy, and dared Orton to beat them with something else. The Broncos couldn't adjust and we fell back to Earth quickly.

                          Do you even watch the games? Tebow doesn't keep the ball every time he touches it and take off running like Ronnie Brown. In fact, of the 55 rush attempts Denver had last week, Tebow had his number called 9 times (16%). And when Denver needed a big play in the 4th quarter-who landed a perfect DEEP pass to Decker? To mention Denvers offense in the same sentence as Miami's Wild Cat is a bit of a stretch.

                          I have no idea where you are going with that second paragraph. Since Tebow has been inserted as the starting quarterback, Denver is one of the leagues BEST rushing teams and has shown that he can throw it deep. Albeit, his accuracy has made me raise my eyebrows at times, but then he lays in a perfect pass to Decker for the knock-out punch. And if you watch all his pass attempts in his last game you can really say that maybe 2-3 throws were bad. The rest could have been caught.

                          I absolutely agree with you that Tebow needs to get better throwing the ball. But if Denver is able to stay in control of a game by running it 55 times why knock Tebow for his lack of passing? The kid is a playmaker. He'll have his rough games, but you can see his playmaking ability now.

                          I was not in Ortons camp at the end but I was driving the bandwagon early on in his tenure as Denvers QB. I was patient for 2 years with Orton and I feel like I could at least give Tebow the same. And right now, Tebow is looking far better.

                          Let me ask you this last question 86...If you had the choice to get rid of Tebow, Fox or McCoy who would you choose.

                          Go Broncos!

                          Comment

                          • Jonsco28
                            Bob Loblaw
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1057

                            #1918
                            Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                            Originally posted by Broncos86
                            You tell me the last team that sustained a read-option offense, or a team that sustained success using the wild cat. They're gimmicky game plans because they depend upon tricking people using the unknown.

                            Once teams figured out Ronnie Brown wouldn't throw the ball and almost NEVER handed the ball to Ricky Williams, Miami's lil' Wild Cat experiment came crashing down.

                            After the Broncos went 6 - 0, teams figured out Kyle Orton wouldn't or couldn't throw the ball deep. Moreover, they realized the McDaniels' Broncos couldn't run the ball. They packed the box, blitzed like crazy, and dared Orton to beat them with something else. The Broncos couldn't adjust and we fell back to Earth quickly.

                            This is what's going to happen to the Broncos this year. Teams will run-blitz and dare Tebow to beat them with his arm. He won't be able to do it, and everything will be for naught. It's trickery that has found success due to teams not knowing that Tebow wouldn't throw the ball that much. Teams now "get" it. It's one-dimensional. To proclaim that 'right now, this is working' is short-sighted in my opinion. We fooled a couple bad teams.

                            And where does this "confidence" come into play? Confidence in what? Throwing the ball? Making reads? I'm rather sure Tebow knows how to do things like stand behind the center, hand off the ball, and pitch it. He has ZERO confidence in dropping back from under center, making a read, and getting the ball out of his hand quickly and accurately. You DO NOT gain confidence by not doing something. You think he'll just magically get better?

                            Either way, until Tim Tebow can start proving he's making strides (which I've talked about pages ago), then each week will be a further and further disappointment for me in him. The rest of the Broncos? Awesome stuff. Massive kudos to the offensive line, the defense, etc. When my QB goes 2 for 8 and 69 yards, I have to say he really didn't do that much. I want to give bigger props to Britton Colquitt, who pinned the Chiefs inside the 20 FOUR times (several were inside the ten).
                            You tell ME the last team that had Tebow as their QB... What was unknown about what Denver was going to try to do? It's not trickery. If they were doing nothing but running the fumble-rooskie, Statue of Liberty, hook and lateral, triple reverses, flea-flickers...etc., then I would agree with you. That would be gimmicky. Just because no other NFL team runs this type of offense doesn't make it a gimmick. All teams rely on misdirection. Oh, and Tim Tebow is not Ronnie Brown. Tebow will throw it.

                            You act like this is it for Tebow...what he did in the last game is all he is ever going to amount to, and that's just purely ridiculous. He will get the chance to develop, but they aren't going to have him go out there and throw the ball all around the yard just because he needs to 'learn' RIGHT NOW. That's absolutely crazy. Why would you want to throw him out there and have him totally out of his comfort zone? That would just be demoralizing to him. Let him do what he does best, and work the rest in over time. That's what they are doing.

                            If you think being out on the football field and running the offense doesn't give him experience and overall confidence (especially when they are winning), you are flat out wrong. Yes, he has more to learn regarding the passing game, but there is more to it than that. I'd think you'd know that.

                            Tebow possesses a different skillset than anyone else. The name of the game is winning. There are no style points in football. Denver is doing what is best for the team (and Tebow) at this time. Their strength is running the ball and that is what they are doing. Plus, they are winning. You aren't going to see Tebow throw the ball a lot until they are behind.

                            You'll probably get your chance to blow your 'I told you so' horn after the Jets game, but this IS A PROCESS. There will be up and downs, and Tebow will improve....OR HE WON'T. All of it will take time and cannot be deciphered one way or another within a span of a few games. Right now he is winning games and there is no reason to do anything different until the situation dictates that they do so. If they were to continue to do this all while losing football games, I'd be more open to your argument.

                            Tebow and the Broncos just beat two divisional foes on the road in back-to-back weeks. That has never been done before in Broncos history.

                            Comment

                            • Broncos86
                              Orange and Blue!
                              • May 2009
                              • 5505

                              #1919
                              Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                              I'm not going to argue Tebow any further. My opinion and stance is clear. I'm no Tebow hate r, and anyone that has been around this board for a while will clearly know that. I'm critical of him right now because I'm also not a blind fanboy. I praise what should be praised and I criticize what I think fairly deserves it.

                              So until Tebow starts to show improvement as a pro-style QB, I'll remain critical. When he begins to display advances as a QB who is grasping the pro-style, I'll praise him.

                              Comment

                              • Broncos86
                                Orange and Blue!
                                • May 2009
                                • 5505

                                #1920
                                Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                                Intriguing articles.

                                John Fox on Tim Tebow:

                                http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream

                                Bill Williamson's reply on ESPN:

                                Denver coach John Fox made some very interesting comments in an interview with NFL.com this week.It is way too early to tell if the Broncos will stay with Tim Tebow as their long-term quarterback.

                                Comment

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