Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • OSUFan_88
    Outback Jesus
    • Jul 2004
    • 25642

    #181
    Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

    Originally posted by DrJones
    Correct on all counts. Honestly, I think NHL owners saw how easily the NFL and NBA crushed union resistance and didn't want to feel left out. If anything, the last lockout emboldened them.
    I wouldn't say the NBA owners crushed the union at all. But they definitely got their fair share back.

    It's weird. It seems like baseball has it all figured out with labor peace, and yet they need a lockout more than any of these sports. The NHL needs it much less than others, and are basically arguing over pennies. While fans may come back, the NHL better not spurn the networks again. They got lucky when NBC took a chance, piss off another network and you may end up on some very off brand channel.
    Too Old To Game Club

    Urban Meyer is lol.

    Comment

    • DrJones
      All Star
      • Mar 2003
      • 9122

      #182
      Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

      Originally posted by OSUFan_88
      I wouldn't say the NBA owners crushed the union at all. But they definitely got their fair share back.
      Basketball-related income went from 57-43 players to 50-50, contract lengths were shortened. I'd have to say that's a solid win for the owners.

      Originally posted by OSUFan_88
      It's weird. It seems like baseball has it all figured out with labor peace, and yet they need a lockout more than any of these sports.
      Why does baseball need a lockout?
      Originally posted by Thrash13
      Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
      Originally posted by slickdtc
      DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
      Originally posted by Kipnis22
      yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

      Comment

      • DrJones
        All Star
        • Mar 2003
        • 9122

        #183
        Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

        Originally posted by liberaluser
        I would argue the reason the NHL will never grow into a sport for casual fans is because of the shenanigans and lack of vision at the top.
        The NHL's been around for 95 years. Give me some examples of what they should be doing to gain casual American fans.
        Originally posted by Thrash13
        Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
        Originally posted by slickdtc
        DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
        Originally posted by Kipnis22
        yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

        Comment

        • OSUFan_88
          Outback Jesus
          • Jul 2004
          • 25642

          #184
          Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

          Originally posted by DrJones
          Why does baseball need a lockout?
          Financial advantages that teams have been given, especially since the draft has now been capped. Smaller market teams had the option to overpay their picks to stay with the organization. Now, if they do choose to sign with the team they drafted, they are gone at the end of their second contract.

          There are other reasons, but I think the baseball system is very broken and skewed, much the same way the NHL was before the last lockout.

          As for the NBA lockout, the owners gave a lot of points away. For the players, what they ended up with was a good deal, considering what the owners were asking for, which was total destruction, like the last NHL lockout.
          Too Old To Game Club

          Urban Meyer is lol.

          Comment

          • DrJones
            All Star
            • Mar 2003
            • 9122

            #185
            Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

            Originally posted by OSUFan_88
            Financial advantages that teams have been given, especially since the draft has now been capped. Smaller market teams had the option to overpay their picks to stay with the organization. Now, if they do choose to sign with the team they drafted, they are gone at the end of their second contract.
            Agreed. But this is an owners-vs-owners issue. How would locking out the players solve this?

            Originally posted by OSUFan_88
            There are other reasons, but I think the baseball system is very broken and skewed, much the same way the NHL was before the last lockout.
            But the problems are with the owners themselves (and Bud). Rich teams don't want a cap; poor teams don't want a floor. Nobody loses money. Do you know which MLB team made the most profit (not revenue) in 2011? The Cleveland Indians.
            Originally posted by Thrash13
            Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
            Originally posted by slickdtc
            DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
            Originally posted by Kipnis22
            yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

            Comment

            • phenom1990
              MVP
              • Mar 2008
              • 4789

              #186
              Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

              NBA players are doing just fine, NFL players may be something different. I wouldn't say their union got crushed. We just saw an offseason where a number of guys got max contracts that probably shouldn't get them.
              "Ma'am I don't make the rules up. I just think them up and write em down". - Cartman

              2013 and 2015 OS NFL Pick'em Champ...somehow I won 2 in 3 years.

              Comment

              • OSUFan_88
                Outback Jesus
                • Jul 2004
                • 25642

                #187
                Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                Originally posted by DrJones
                But the problems are with the owners themselves (and Bud). Rich teams don't want a cap; poor teams don't want a floor. Nobody loses money. Do you know which MLB team made the most profit (not revenue) in 2011? The Cleveland Indians.
                Trust me, I and many other Indians fans know this.
                Too Old To Game Club

                Urban Meyer is lol.

                Comment

                • DrJones
                  All Star
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 9122

                  #188
                  Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                  Originally posted by phenom1990
                  NBA players are doing just fine, NFL players may be something different. I wouldn't say their union got crushed. We just saw an offseason where a number of guys got max contracts that probably shouldn't get them.
                  That's true. The NFLPA was crushed long ago. It's still mind-boggling to me that player contracts aren't guaranteed.
                  Originally posted by Thrash13
                  Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                  Originally posted by slickdtc
                  DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                  Originally posted by Kipnis22
                  yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                  Comment

                  • TheMatrix31
                    RF
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 52931

                    #189
                    Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                    Fully guaranteed contracts are the worst.

                    Comment

                    • Money99
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 12696

                      #190
                      Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                      Like DrJones said, none of the owners in MLB complain about their setup because everyone makes money - mostly from their TV deal and from revenue sharing/luxery tax.

                      The lower end teams WANT teams like the Sox and Yankees making the playoffs every year. This ensures a very strong TV deal which helps every team out.

                      I honestly wonder if this is the system the NHL needs to go to.
                      This years Stanley Cup finals had terrible ratings despite having LA and a NY team in the final.

                      If the finals feature big hockey markets like Detroit, NYR, Pit, Bos, Chi, etc, the ratings are much stronger and the TV deal could be even better than $200M/year.

                      If I were the owners, I'd look to work with the PA to have a system like baseball.
                      And, unlike baseball, hockey has a much higher degree of randomness on the ice, and with one strong goalie, any small market can get to the finals.
                      So I think the MLB system is probably perfect for the NHL.
                      Not every owner wants a cap on what they can spend. Only a couple of years ago, Illitch said in a DetNews interview that he would like to spend as much as he wanted.
                      I believe that's why there's not as much revenue sharing. Rich owners want to spend, poor teams want a cap, so rich owners don't want to give poor teams anything since they're already being handicapped by a system that only poor teams want in there.

                      Comment

                      • BlueNGold
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 21817

                        #191
                        Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                        Originally posted by Money99
                        Like DrJones said, none of the owners in MLB complain about their setup because everyone makes money - mostly from their TV deal and from revenue sharing/luxery tax.

                        The lower end teams WANT teams like the Sox and Yankees making the playoffs every year. This ensures a very strong TV deal which helps every team out.

                        I honestly wonder if this is the system the NHL needs to go to.
                        This years Stanley Cup finals had terrible ratings despite having LA and a NY team in the final.

                        If the finals feature big hockey markets like Detroit, NYR, Pit, Bos, Chi, etc, the ratings are much stronger and the TV deal could be even better than $200M/year.

                        If I were the owners, I'd look to work with the PA to have a system like baseball.
                        And, unlike baseball, hockey has a much higher degree of randomness on the ice, and with one strong goalie, any small market can get to the finals.
                        So I think the MLB system is probably perfect for the NHL.
                        Not every owner wants a cap on what they can spend. Only a couple of years ago, Illitch said in a DetNews interview that he would like to spend as much as he wanted.
                        I believe that's why there's not as much revenue sharing. Rich owners want to spend, poor teams want a cap, so rich owners don't want to give poor teams anything since they're already being handicapped by a system that only poor teams want in there.
                        That wasn't necessarily an "NY team" in the Final though. If it were the Rangers (let's not even bother making a hypothetical where the Islanders make the Stanley Cup Final), I'm pretty sure the viewership would have been better because they have much more fan support than a team like New Jersey does.
                        Originally posted by bradtxmale
                        I like 6 inches. Its not too thin and not too thick. You get the support your body needs.



                        Comment

                        • ASB37
                          MVP
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 2624

                          #192
                          Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                          Originally posted by BlueNGold
                          That wasn't necessarily an "NY team" in the Final though. If it were the Rangers (let's not even bother making a hypothetical where the Islanders make the Stanley Cup Final), I'm pretty sure the viewership would have been better because they have much more fan support than a team like New Jersey does.
                          Yeah to say that the NJ Devils are a "NY Team" is a misnomer. They are in a decidedly smaller market, and do not have anywhere close to the fan support of some of the big teams in the NHL.
                          Go Yankees
                          Go Rangers
                          Go Giants


                          "You play to win the game."

                          Comment

                          • slickdtc
                            Grayscale
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 17125

                            #193
                            Not to mention they beat NYR to get there. Any potential bandwagoners probably went out the door with that.
                            NHL - Philadelphia Flyers
                            NFL - Buffalo Bills
                            MLB - Cincinnati Reds


                            Originally posted by Money99
                            And how does one levy a check that will result in only a slight concussion? Do they set their shoulder-pads to 'stun'?

                            Comment

                            • DrJones
                              All Star
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 9122

                              #194
                              Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                              Originally posted by Money99
                              If I were the owners, I'd look to work with the PA to have a system like baseball.
                              And, unlike baseball, hockey has a much higher degree of randomness on the ice, and with one strong goalie, any small market can get to the finals.
                              We've argued this before. Pitching and short series make baseball playoffs every bit as random as hockey (ask any Cardinals fan). The difference between the two is:

                              1. Fewer baseball teams make the postseason, so when the team with the worst playoff record wins the World Series (more common than the team with the best playoff record), it doesn't look as random. Higher seeds win more often in the NHL than in MLB.

                              2. Underdogs can win in baseball without boring everyone to death. If the Orioles or Pirates win the World Series, I am surprised but still entertained. If they beat a superior team, luck is involved, but they're still playing the same game. This would not be true in an uncapped NHL. It would just be the Dead Puck Era all over again. (Yes, I know you think it's already back.)
                              Originally posted by Thrash13
                              Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                              Originally posted by slickdtc
                              DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                              Originally posted by Kipnis22
                              yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                              Comment

                              • DrJones
                                All Star
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 9122

                                #195
                                Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                                Originally posted by Money99
                                If the finals feature big hockey markets like Detroit, NYR, Pit, Bos, Chi, etc, the ratings are much stronger and the TV deal could be even better than $200M/year.
                                That's an odd way of putting it. The NHL got as much as they did from NBC because what you describe is precisely what happened. Better, in fact, because Chicago and Boston broke long title droughts. You're saying that if these teams always made the SCF, casual viewership would increase, and the NHL would get a better deal in 2022? Maybe, but I doubt it. If Detroit and Pittsburgh met again in the 2013 SCF, would ratings be significantly greater than 2008 and 2009, or would it just be the same people watching?

                                Do we know that the markets you describe are the ones that would spend the most in an uncapped league? The Leafs, Flyers, Rangers, and Red Wings, sure. The Bruins and Penguins? No way. Salaries would absolutely balloon, as Canadian teams would be flush with cash and overpay stars who otherwise would prefer to play in the US. Holik and Yashin would look like bargains.
                                Last edited by DrJones; 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM.
                                Originally posted by Thrash13
                                Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                                Originally posted by slickdtc
                                DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                                Originally posted by Kipnis22
                                yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                                Comment

                                Working...