Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Hockey will never be a go-to sport to casual fans in America when they have nothing else to watch.
The reasons are plenty;
- sport is foreign to them (probably never played as kids or even had a rink nearby).
- can't pronounce names.
- hard to follow the puck (it usually takes 4 replays from 10 different angles to figure out who scored a goal YAY rebound/scramble/deflection goals!!! ).
- not nearly enough scoring.
- is it on ESPN? Er-NOPE!

I think #1 is by far the biggest reason (in addition to cost of playing, as well as the already-crowded US sports calendar). Was hockey really more popular in the US a.) before Europeans joined the league (ie, players had "pronounceable" names) or b.) when scoring was higher? Are there attendance or TV figures to back this up? Were ESPN's ratings great during the golden years of 92-94, then cratered during the late 90s?

While I certainly want a return to the more wide-open play of 91-94 (or even 05-10), I don't think it influences TV ratings much. Local markets are king. IMO the one and only thing that could lift hockey out of its niche status in the US is a super-charismatic American player with a Gretzky/Lemieux-level skillset.

[mkharsh33]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

There's one thing regarding the NHL lockout that makes it different than the other sports: the NHL players have the option to play overseas...

The NBA players never looked elsewhere... The NFL has no real option... MLB players don't either. So this could drag out because if players get desperate they do have the option of the overseas leagues. THIS is a huge reason why I believe this will drag out: the "urgency factor" is much different in the NHL than the other major sports. It will come down to the owners looking at their losses, and they deem they won't lose in any proposed deal, they'll just wait it out until the players (and Fehr) come around more to their line of thinking... I don't think either side is in a hurry...

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

There's one thing regarding the NHL lockout that makes it different than the other sports: the NHL players have the option to play overseas...

I'd be curious to find out what kind of salaries and net pay NHL players are receiving in Euro leagues. Jason Spezza, for example, has to pay insurance on his NHL contract at a rate of $50,000 per month while playing in Switzerland, a rate which is supposedly close to what he's being paid in the Swiss A League.

[SidVish]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

They can't be dumb enough to cancel the season. I believe a deal will be done in time for the Winter Classic.

[AC]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

They can't be dumb enough

You underestimate their stupidity.

Does anyone else feel like this is just going through the motions? I honestly don't feel like I'm missing anything- which is weird, because I'm not one of the people who go, "I'm SO done with the NHL, I DEFINITELY won't come crawling back like the last two times."

[phenom1990]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

There's one thing regarding the NHL lockout that makes it different than the other sports: the NHL players have the option to play overseas...

The NBA players never looked elsewhere... The NFL has no real option... MLB players don't either. So this could drag out because if players get desperate they do have the option of the overseas leagues. THIS is a huge reason why I believe this will drag out: the "urgency factor" is much different in the NHL than the other major sports. It will come down to the owners looking at their losses, and they deem they won't lose in any proposed deal, they'll just wait it out until the players (and Fehr) come around more to their line of thinking... I don't think either side is in a hurry...

Some NBA players went over but it seems like the European hockey leagues have more money than the European basketball leagues. Do the European hockey leagues have limits on American/ foreign players? I know some basketball leagues do.

[mkharsh33]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

I ask this as a legitimate question from those here who know much more about professional hockey than I do... How do foreign players view the NHL in terms of status with regard to professional hockey?

I ask this because I'm a long-time die hard NBA fan... NBA players view the NBA as THE PINNACLE of professional basketball. Yes, the Euro opportunities have grown, but given a choice the NBA is a far superior league. Many guys will even choose an opportunity to play in the NBDL instead of overseas. And when a small handful of NBA players went overseas during the NBA lockout, it was deemed a disaster by all standards.

I don't fully understand minor league Canadian hockey leagues or the Euro leagues in the NHL... I just wonder how the NHL stacks up against them, and if guys could really see themselves bolting if it appears the competition has a lot to offer them... I would guess the money isn't up to NHL par, but if interest in the NHL begins to wane, I'm curious as to the effect this will have on the future of hockey in the world. Again, my question is sincere and I appreciate any responses to this...

[phenom1990]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

I ask this as a legitimate question from those here who know much more about professional hockey than I do... How do foreign players view the NHL in terms of status with regard to professional hockey?

I ask this because I'm a long-time die hard NBA fan... NBA players view the NBA as THE PINNACLE of professional basketball. Yes, the Euro opportunities have grown, but given a choice the NBA is a far superior league. Many guys will even choose an opportunity to play in the NBDL instead of overseas. And when a small handful of NBA players went overseas during the NBA lockout, it was deemed a disaster by all standards.

I don't fully understand minor league Canadian hockey leagues or the Euro leagues in the NHL... I just wonder how the NHL stacks up against them, and if guys could really see themselves bolting if it appears the competition has a lot to offer them... I would guess the money isn't up to NHL par, but if interest in the NHL begins to wane, I'm curious as to the effect this will have on the future of hockey in the world. Again, my question is sincere and I appreciate any responses to this...

Most guys in basketball will take overseas over the D-League. The D-League structure isn't that good and its likely that you won't make that much money in the D-League unless you weren't drafted by a team and sent down. The only guys that will take the D-League over playing overseas are guys that were training camp invites that were cut and know they are one injury away from getting signed by an NBA team.

[Money99]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

I ask this as a legitimate question from those here who know much more about professional hockey than I do... How do foreign players view the NHL in terms of status with regard to professional hockey?

I ask this because I'm a long-time die hard NBA fan... NBA players view the NBA as THE PINNACLE of professional basketball. Yes, the Euro opportunities have grown, but given a choice the NBA is a far superior league. Many guys will even choose an opportunity to play in the NBDL instead of overseas. And when a small handful of NBA players went overseas during the NBA lockout, it was deemed a disaster by all standards.

I don't fully understand minor league Canadian hockey leagues or the Euro leagues in the NHL... I just wonder how the NHL stacks up against them, and if guys could really see themselves bolting if it appears the competition has a lot to offer them... I would guess the money isn't up to NHL par, but if interest in the NHL begins to wane, I'm curious as to the effect this will have on the future of hockey in the world. Again, my question is sincere and I appreciate any responses to this...

I obviously can't comment for all European's, but I know that about a decade or so ago, European players used to refer to the NHL as "The Money League".
I think some of the players look to the NHL as the only league to play in because it has the best players.
But there are more than a few that were only interested in the NHL to make money.
Since the KHL has come around, more and more Russian players have elected to stay home as they can make just as much, or in some cases more, than the NHL can offer.

I have a feeling if the Swedish and Finnish leagues paid as much as the KHL, there would probably be a higher percentage of Swedes and Finns that would stay overseas as well.

The NHL and NHLPA have done a terrific spin-job portraying their players as humble, 'aw-shucks' players that would play for free.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Hockey players are just as money-driven as any football, basketball or baseball player out there.
This is a job for them, so I really don't think many players would care where they played, as long as they were getting a top salary. The WHA pretty much proves that as several top NHL players jumped ship to a 'lesser league' in order to make a bigger paycheck.

[mkharsh33]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Most guys in basketball will take overseas over the D-League. The D-League structure isn't that good and its likely that you won't make that much money in the D-League unless you weren't drafted by a team and sent down. The only guys that will take the D-League over playing overseas are guys that were training camp invites that were cut and know they are one injury away from getting signed by an NBA team.

Not totally accurate... YOUNG guys who feel they're 2 years or so away will take the money in a Euro league... BUT, it's now appearing that guys who feel they're really close are looking at the NBDL as their ticket back. Mike James and Antoine Walker are two names that come to mind.

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

I obviously can't comment for all European's, but I know that about a decade or so ago, European players used to refer to the NHL as "The Money League".
I think some of the players look to the NHL as the only league to play in because it has the best players.
But there are more than a few that were only interested in the NHL to make money.
Since the KHL has come around, more and more Russian players have elected to stay home as they can make just as much, or in some cases more, than the NHL can offer.

I have a feeling if the Swedish and Finnish leagues paid as much as the KHL, there would probably be a higher percentage of Swedes and Finns that would stay overseas as well.

The NHL and NHLPA have done a terrific spin-job portraying their players as humble, 'aw-shucks' players that would play for free.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Hockey players are just as money-driven as any football, basketball or baseball player out there.
This is a job for them, so I really don't think many players would care where they played, as long as they were getting a top salary. The WHA pretty much proves that as several top NHL players jumped ship to a 'lesser league' in order to make a bigger paycheck.

Some additional info for mkharsh on the KHL & Europe:

- current KHL salary cap is approximately $36M US per team, a little over half that of NHL
- locked out NHLers don't count towards cap
- there is a limit on the number of non-Russians allowed (5 per team)
- although average salary is considerably lower than NHL, stars make big money: Radulov will be paid $9.2M per season (tax free!) for next four years
- talent gap between NHL and KHL (assuming no lockout) is huge; very few players (Radulov and a couple youngsters like Tarasenko) could be top-6 forwards or top-4 D-men in NHL; note presence of Canadian-born NHL washouts like Brandon Bochenski & Kevin Dallman in top 5 of KHL scoring last year
- the league itself isn't particularly stable IMO; financed primarily by Russian oil billionaires as vanity project; there are a few very rich teams and many who struggle to reach the $8M salary floor (gap betwen rich/poor closer to Euro soccer leagues than NHL); most rinks are half the capacity of NHL arenas
- currently not a long-term option for most non-Russians; aside from Moscow and St. Petersburg (and recent expansion teams in Prague, Bratislava, and Riga), there are no cities that would appeal to North Americans or western Europeans; transportation (see Yaroslavl crash) substandard by West standards

- other Euro leagues: SEL (Sweden), SM-liiga (Finland), NLA (Switzerland), DEL (Germany), Extraliga (Czech Republic) pay considerably less than KHL: top players make in the 800-900K range
- Money is correct in that these leagues (or a KHL-led Euroleague) would be a viable option for star Europeans (and North Americans, for that matter) if the money was NHL ballpark
- I don't see that happening because I don't believe the revenue streams are sufficient (ie, Euros are never going to pay North American ticket prices on a consistent basis)

[phenom1990]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Not totally accurate... YOUNG guys who feel they're 2 years or so away will take the money in a Euro league... BUT, it's now appearing that guys who feel they're really close are looking at the NBDL as their ticket back. Mike James and Antoine Walker are two names that come to mind.

Older guys generally don't like to go overseas because they can't see their family during the season. The only guys that choose the D-League are guys that feel they are one injury away from being signed. Once they go overseas, it eliminates them from the NBA discussion for the rest of the year unless their team overseas releases them.

Most guys realize pretty quickly that the money in the D-League sucks unless they were a draft pick of a team. So once they are cut from training camp, they go overseas because they don't want to waste a year of their career earning D-League money.

Guys that will pick the D-League over playing overseas are the Dan Gadzuric, Mikki Moore, Mike James of the world.

Guys that will pick overseas are the Dionte Christmas and Hamady N'Diaye of the world who don't want to waste a year of earning money.

[aholbert32]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8568966/as-nhl-lockout-drags-winter-classic-canceled-source-says

Looks like the winter classic is next.

[cdawg44]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ed-source-says

Looks like the winter classic is next.

Son of a B****. See Y'all next season

[phenom1990]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

What type of impact, if any, does NBC agreement with the English Premier League have on the NHL?