Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Very true. And in places as unique as Green Bay, WI.

All that money certainly isn't coming from Green Bay. Like I said, I'm not saying that it would always work, but there are certain situations where it would, and it isn't tried.

[mgoblue]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

First off, I'm glad hockey will be back, and a 48 game season will be awesome drama.

Big question though, can someone help me understand if we're just going to lose another season in 5 years (or whenever this expires)?

I thought the last lockout was supposed to fix hockey, but now the owners just cry again (usually their own wasteful spending and inability to control themselves).

How is this agreement any different than the last one that was supposed to be the amazing solution to fix the NHL's financials? I purely expect the owners to cry again next time that they're losing money, since it seems to work for them every time so far....

So tired of hearing the owners whine, and when they get their way they still whine.

Am I off the mark?

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

First off, I'm glad hockey will be back, and a 48 game season will be awesome drama.

Big question though, can someone help me understand if we're just going to lose another season in 5 years (or whenever this expires)?

I thought the last lockout was supposed to fix hockey, but now the owners just cry again (usually their own wasteful spending and inability to control themselves).

How is this agreement any different than the last one that was supposed to be the amazing solution to fix the NHL's financials? I purely expect the owners to cry again next time that they're losing money, since it seems to work for them every time so far....

So tired of hearing the owners whine, and when they get their way they still whine.

Am I off the mark?

No, you're not off the mark. There will likely be another lockout in 8-10 years. The league's main problem is the revenue disparity between traditional and non-traditional markets. The lockout that just ended will likely exacerbate those problems.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

If they would just listen to me and my plan to move and/or disband any teams south of an extended Mason-Dixon Line excluding California, that would be a good start. They have NASCAR and college football, they'll be OK.

[mkharsh33]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

This isn't the 1950s... Based upon the new economics of the game, there will ALWAYS be work stoppages. There's too much at stake. I'm just glad the deal is for a minimum of 8 years...at least we'll have labor peace for quite awhile.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Just to be clear, I wasn't serious - for the most part. Obviously Phoenix is a complete debacle at this point. Just seems like there's some square pegs being jammed into round holes.

[AC]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

The game needs to continue to progress and evolve, and if it takes a lockout every 8-10 years, so be it.

[mgoblue]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

No, you're not off the mark. There will likely be another lockout in 8-10 years. The league's main problem is the revenue disparity between traditional and non-traditional markets. The lockout that just ended will likely exacerbate those problems.

Yeah, I understand...just gets frustrating after a while. At least this one is a longer agreement...

I'll deal with it and just laugh at the stupid owners who find ways around rules that are supposed to protect them.

[pietasterp]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

No, you're not off the mark. There will likely be another lockout in 8-10 years. The league's main problem is the revenue disparity between traditional and non-traditional markets. The lockout that just ended will likely exacerbate those problems.

I haven't heard too much in-depth analysis of the details of the deal. Can you explain why you think the revenue disparity between the haves/have-nots will be worse with the new deal?

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

I haven't heard too much in-depth analysis of the details of the deal. Can you explain why you think the revenue disparity between the haves/have-nots will be worse with the new deal?

1. Whose attendance and local TV ratings are more likely to suffer as a result of the fallout? Vancouver or Florida? Philly or Anaheim? Which teams are more likely to raise or lower ticket prices over the next 5-10 years?

2. Canadian TV contracts are up after 2014. While all 30 teams will share the "national" deals (currently CBC and TSN), the local broadcasts are big moneymakers for Canadian teams (by NHL standards, anyway), and they're all supposed to rise significantly in value.

3. Several of the teams with sky-high ticket prices (Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Minnesota) have had little to no playoff success since the last lockout. What if that changes? A long playoff run by the Leafs would probably bump up the salary cap/floor all by itself.

Summary: I believe overall league revenues will continue to climb at a higher rate than revenues of the league's weaker sisters. The only long term solutions are: 1.) NFL-style revenue split, or 2.) elimination of salary cap, or 3.) contraction/relocation of weak sisters.

[pietasterp]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Interesting points, doc. I'm surprised revenue sharing hasn't been more seriously discussed, but I can imagine at least 3 clubs that would be strongly against such an idea. Relocation/contraction seems inevitable, though.

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Interesting points, doc. I'm surprised revenue sharing hasn't been more seriously discussed, but I can imagine at least 3 clubs that would be strongly against such an idea. Relocation/contraction seems inevitable, though.

There is limited revenue sharing; nothing to the extent of the NFL (or MLB), though.

[cdawg44]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

1. Whose attendance and local TV ratings are more likely to suffer as a result of the fallout? Vancouver or Florida? Philly or Anaheim? Which teams are more likely to raise or lower ticket prices over the next 5-10 years?

2. Canadian TV contracts are up after 2014. While all 30 teams will share the "national" deals (currently CBC and TSN), the local broadcasts are big moneymakers for Canadian teams (by NHL standards, anyway), and they're all supposed to rise significantly in value.

3. Several of the teams with sky-high ticket prices (Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Minnesota) have had little to no playoff success since the last lockout. What if that changes? A long playoff run by the Leafs would probably bump up the salary cap/floor all by itself.

Summary: I believe overall league revenues will continue to climb at a higher rate than revenues of the league's weaker sisters. The only long term solutions are: 1.) NFL-style revenue split, or 2.) elimination of salary cap, or 3.) contraction/relocation of weak sisters.

Exactly. Today we are no closer to long term labor peace and the solving of the NHL's fundamental issues than we were on July 1 when this started. Either Bettman wants NHL in the south to survive him long term or he doesn't. This league desprately needs robust revenue sharing if hockey in non-traditional markets is really important. Otherwise some very good teams with good ownership (Carolina, Nashville, Tampa) just can't make it long term and compete with New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit and the Canadian teams.

[DrJones]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

From a Yahoo article on lockout effects:

"Sports really depend on getting people hooked on the drug, and the NHL has now given hockey fans three opportunities to go through detox," said Victor Matheson, a professor of economics at the College of the Holy Cross. "There's a real question about how much you can do that before you have fans say, 'You know, I have a lot of things I can do with $1,500 besides buy a season-ticket package.'"

LOL! Quarter-season packages in the Canucks lower bowl cost more than that.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

Just so we are clear, most of the weaker sister of the NHL could become viable if/when they turn it around. The only franchise that seems to not be able to make money, no matter what, is Phoenix.