Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

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  • rdnk
    All Star
    • Feb 2009
    • 5730

    #76
    Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

    Originally posted by sharks
    I don't get the point of needing more goals. More scoring results in each goal meaning less.
    Yeah, but no one wants to return to the trap days. Sure, that 1 goal was really important, but it doesn't mean it was fun to watch.

    I imagine we could miss up until Christmas and get a shortened season. Then the owners will declare victory and in two years they'll be back to saying the players screwed them. Patterns FTW.
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    Comment

    • Money99
      Hall Of Fame
      • Sep 2002
      • 12696

      #77
      Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

      Originally posted by sharks
      I don't get the point of needing more goals. More scoring results in each goal meaning less.
      Because goals are entertaining, and the whole point of paying ridiculous sums of money to watch pro sports is to be entertained.

      I grew up on the 80's and I never heard ONE fan complain about there being too many goals.
      Nobody minded when Wayne broke 200 points, or Hull scoring over 80 twice in a row.

      As a Wings fan, I absolutely loved watching Yzerman carve up defenses on a nightly basis.

      I will never understand why 'goals' is such a dirty word. In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for an average of 7.5 goals per game (I should say as along as the goals are quality and not more rebound/deflection/screen goals where you need 14 replays from 16 different angles to figure out how it went in).

      If I want 2-1 every night, I'll watch soccer - which I loathe.

      The thing is, most of these low scoring games are downright coma inducing.
      Watching a constant rush of 3-on-3 only to see a forward flip the puck at the goalie to force a stoppage so you can setup a face-off play is not even remotely entertaining.
      And then watching the offensive team evacuate the offensize zone like it was full of AIDs when it loses the face-off drives me nuts!!!

      I could go on and on about how the game needs more quality even-strength goals, but I don't want to take up this boards bandwidth.

      In the end, if you really want goals to mean that much, why not just make every game sudden death? THERE! Now all the zealots who hate goals will be in heaven.

      I'm sick of this argument. And sharks, I don't mean to rag on you, I'm just really passionate about this topic.
      I'd also be interested to know your age. I would bet my last dollar you're under 25 years old. Maybe even under 20.
      You never had the pleasure of watching hockey when there was offensive creativity that didn't come from an odd-man advantage.
      When teams first-line centres played 30 minutes a night and created a genuine offensive chance every stinking shift.
      Nowaday's, you'll be lucky to see more than 10 legit scoring chances for an entire game.
      And more than half of those will be on the PP.
      Even-strength has basically become an exercise in kissing your sister.

      BA-HUMBUG!!!

      Comment

      • Dispatch
        MVP
        • Jan 2006
        • 2339

        #78
        Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

        Originally posted by Money99
        Because goals are entertaining, and the whole point of paying ridiculous sums of money to watch pro sports is to be entertained.

        I grew up on the 80's and I never heard ONE fan complain about there being too many goals.
        Nobody minded when Wayne broke 200 points, or Hull scoring over 80 twice in a row.

        As a Wings fan, I absolutely loved watching Yzerman carve up defenses on a nightly basis.

        I will never understand why 'goals' is such a dirty word. In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for an average of 7.5 goals per game (I should say as along as the goals are quality and not more rebound/deflection/screen goals where you need 14 replays from 16 different angles to figure out how it went in).
        After watching the Caps this past post season I'm surprised I didn't go nuts. Yes it's important to win but the fact that 3rd and 4th liners were getting more time on the ice then Ovechkin and Semin was frustrating. These lower line players will do anything to get on the ice. Even if it means packing it in in front of the net blocking shots.

        With the amount of shot blocking and the huge goalie pads it's nearly impossible to get a 4-3 game anymore. Hopefully they can fix this sometime in the near future.

        Comment

        • DrJones
          All Star
          • Mar 2003
          • 9120

          #79
          Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

          Originally posted by Money99
          RANT
          Yep. To my mind, the early 90s were the best. Goalies were no longer the sieves they were in the early 80s, but high-quality goals (and more importantly, high-quality scoring chances) were common.
          Originally posted by Thrash13
          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
          Originally posted by slickdtc
          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
          Originally posted by Kipnis22
          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

          Comment

          • RealmK
            Banned
            • Sep 2003
            • 4198

            #80
            Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

            Originally posted by Money99
            Because goals are entertaining, and the whole point of paying ridiculous sums of money to watch pro sports is to be entertained.

            I grew up on the 80's and I never heard ONE fan complain about there being too many goals.
            Nobody minded when Wayne broke 200 points, or Hull scoring over 80 twice in a row.

            As a Wings fan, I absolutely loved watching Yzerman carve up defenses on a nightly basis.

            I will never understand why 'goals' is such a dirty word. In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for an average of 7.5 goals per game (I should say as along as the goals are quality and not more rebound/deflection/screen goals where you need 14 replays from 16 different angles to figure out how it went in).

            If I want 2-1 every night, I'll watch soccer - which I loathe.

            The thing is, most of these low scoring games are downright coma inducing.
            Watching a constant rush of 3-on-3 only to see a forward flip the puck at the goalie to force a stoppage so you can setup a face-off play is not even remotely entertaining.
            And then watching the offensive team evacuate the offensize zone like it was full of AIDs when it loses the face-off drives me nuts!!!

            I could go on and on about how the game needs more quality even-strength goals, but I don't want to take up this boards bandwidth.

            In the end, if you really want goals to mean that much, why not just make every game sudden death? THERE! Now all the zealots who hate goals will be in heaven.

            I'm sick of this argument. And sharks, I don't mean to rag on you, I'm just really passionate about this topic.
            I'd also be interested to know your age. I would bet my last dollar you're under 25 years old. Maybe even under 20.
            You never had the pleasure of watching hockey when there was offensive creativity that didn't come from an odd-man advantage.
            When teams first-line centres played 30 minutes a night and created a genuine offensive chance every stinking shift.
            Nowaday's, you'll be lucky to see more than 10 legit scoring chances for an entire game.
            And more than half of those will be on the PP.
            Even-strength has basically become an exercise in kissing your sister.

            BA-HUMBUG!!!
            I dunno to each their own and all, but I actually like those low scoring 2-1, 1-0 defensive battles. I don't need to see 7 goals a game for the game to be entertaining.

            Comment

            • thedudedominick
              MVP
              • Mar 2009
              • 3794

              #81
              Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

              Originally posted by RealmK
              I dunno to each their own and all, but I actually like those low scoring 2-1, 1-0 defensive battles. I don't need to see 7 goals a game for the game to be entertaining.
              Maybe it's because I am a Kings fan but I agree with you. Low scoring does not mean boring. The Kings play an aggressive forecheck and don't "trap" as people that never watch them tend to think. The pressure they put on other teams makes the game exciting and kills scoring chances for other teams. Hell I love defense in every sport, I played linebacker in football so it's in my nature. I am not a fan of spread offenses in football and while scoring is great in hockey I don't think more goals means a better product on the ice.
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              Comment

              • bad_philanthropy
                MVP
                • Jul 2005
                • 12167

                #82
                Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                I don't need fire wagon hockey, but I do not understand why goaltending gear was allowed increase so significantly in size. The chest protectors and extra width on trappers and leg pads are especially bad.

                This is a tall and relatively thin bodied man playing goalie from the early 90's.


                Here is the broomstick Ryan Miller in his gear. Looks like he'd hiding behind a damn pillow fort. Why does a 150lb Ryan Miller get to wear a Hulk costume in goal?


                Why not reduce the equipment to early 90's sizes? Like Dr. Jones said, it was a good balance between competent goaltending and offensive production.
                Last edited by bad_philanthropy; 08-11-2012, 10:58 PM.

                Comment

                • RealmK
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 4198

                  #83
                  Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                  Originally posted by bad_philanthropy
                  I don't need fire wagon hockey, but I do not understand why goaltending gear was allowed increase so significantly in size. The chest protectors and extra width on trappers and leg pads are especially bad.

                  This is a tall and relatively thin bodied man playing goalie from the early 90's.


                  Here is the broomstick Ryan Miller in his gear. Looks like he'd hiding behind a damn pillow fort. Why does a 150lb Ryan Miller get to wear a Hulk costume in goal?


                  Why not reduce the equipment to early 90's sizes? Like Dr. Jones said, it was a good balance between competent goaltending and offensive production.
                  I'm all for reducing tender gear as I agree some of the pads these guys wear, Miller and Luongo and even Tim Thomas is just ridiculously huge. But for any other sweeping changes just to try to produce more offense, meh, would rather it not happen.

                  There's not a thing wrong with watching a defensive low scoring game as each possession in the offensive zone becomes all that more important to try and make a goal out of it. I sometimes get the feeling if Hank had his way blocking shots would be a penalty and that on defense teams should just allow the other team scoring chances to make it exciting or some ****. People obviously follow hockey for different reasons and all but for me, while goals are nice, it's not the end all be all imo.

                  Comment

                  • Gagnon39
                    Windy City Sports Fan
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 8544

                    #84
                    Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                    I've been keeping up with the pending trouble with the CBA for a while now and I have to say that as it gets closer to September 15, I get more and more disgusted.

                    Here we are, well under ten years removed from a season which was cancelled in it's entirety. And a decade before that, a season that saw just 48 regular season games. A couple of things in particular rub me the wrong way and make me especially angry.

                    First and foremost, I think its pretty well known by most sports fans that the NHL is on the low end of the totem pole, if it is there at all, when included in the four major team sports. With that being said the NHL has increased tremendously in popularity since the lockout of 2004-05, which was fantastic. It was amazing to me how the league recovered from losing an entire year. But now, again, here we are. On the verge of another "work" stoppage and who truly suffers? The fans. How much more can hockey fans get dumped on? I will be absolutely furious if the NHL misses a single game. It took quite a bit to earn the fans forgiveness after 2004-05, and a lockout now would likely turn any fans that were gained since then away for good. You're always going to have your hard-core fans but the popularity of the league will go down and any ground that has been made up will be lost.

                    The second and really equally aggravating aspect of this whole deal is that it seems like no one realizes how serious this is. Why is no one speaking up from the League or the NHLPA about how a lockout must be avoided at all costs? In fact, quite the opposite seems true. It seems that both sides have simply accepted that a lockout is imminent and that some time will be missed. Despite these on-going talks there seems to be a lack of true urgency on the matter.

                    In the end, to quote Star Wars, I have a bad feeling about this. And for a game that is great like hockey to have owners and players that are this out of tune with reality is infuriating. There's simply no other way to put it. I'm as big of a hockey fan as anyone but I'm realistic as well. And for the NHL or NHLPA to think that a lockout could serve some kind of good is insane. I wish the NHL was as popular as the NFL, NBA or Major League Baseball, but it is not. And the sooner both parties realize this, the better. The NFL could lose an entire season to a lockout or strike and fans would come back in droves as soon as it was over. Hockey does not have such a luxury even though the NHL and NHLPA seem to think it does. This can't do anything but harm the game and the league.
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                    Comment

                    • rdnk
                      All Star
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 5730

                      #85
                      Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                      It's not that I hate watching a low scoring game. I've seen plenty of entertaining 2-1 games. I just hate when both teams are running the trap or a variant.
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                      • DrJones
                        All Star
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 9120

                        #86
                        Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                        Originally posted by Gagnon39
                        First and foremost, I think its pretty well known by most sports fans that the NHL is on the low end of the totem pole, if it is there at all, when included in the four major team sports. With that being said the NHL has increased tremendously in popularity since the lockout of 2004-05, which was fantastic. It was amazing to me how the league recovered from losing an entire year. But now, again, here we are. On the verge of another "work" stoppage and who truly suffers? The fans. How much more can hockey fans get dumped on? I will be absolutely furious if the NHL misses a single game. It took quite a bit to earn the fans forgiveness after 2004-05, and a lockout now would likely turn any fans that were gained since then away for good. You're always going to have your hard-core fans but the popularity of the league will go down and any ground that has been made up will be lost.
                        People said this before the last lockout. People say this before every lockout/strike in every sport. I've yet to see any that have had a lasting effect. Again, this lockout will be a short one (thankfully) because of NBC, not because the NHL or NHLPA is worried about a significant loss of fans, because history has proven it's just not going to happen.
                        Originally posted by Thrash13
                        Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                        Originally posted by slickdtc
                        DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                        Originally posted by Kipnis22
                        yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                        Comment

                        • DrJones
                          All Star
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 9120

                          #87
                          Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                          Originally posted by RealmK
                          There's not a thing wrong with watching a defensive low scoring game as each possession in the offensive zone becomes all that more important to try and make a goal out of it. I sometimes get the feeling if Hank had his way blocking shots would be a penalty and that on defense teams should just allow the other team scoring chances to make it exciting or some ****. People obviously follow hockey for different reasons and all but for me, while goals are nice, it's not the end all be all imo.
                          Full power to you, but it still baffles me.

                          Does this only exist in hockey? Are NFL fans upset that there are fewer 7-3 games than in the past? Are there NBA posters on the OS boards who long for the 79-73 Heat/Knicks games of the late 90s? Or the 64-53 scores from the WNBA?
                          Originally posted by Thrash13
                          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                          Originally posted by slickdtc
                          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                          Originally posted by Kipnis22
                          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                          Comment

                          • RealmK
                            Banned
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 4198

                            #88
                            Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                            Originally posted by DrJones
                            Full power to you, but it still baffles me.

                            Does this only exist in hockey? Are NFL fans upset that there are fewer 7-3 games than in the past? Are there NBA posters on the OS boards who long for the 79-73 Heat/Knicks games of the late 90s? Or the 64-53 scores from the WNBA?
                            I'm just saying that not every game need be a 7-6 affair to be a fun game to watch. Like I said, to each their own and all that.

                            Comment

                            • slickdtc
                              Grayscale
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 17125

                              #89
                              Originally posted by DrJones
                              Full power to you, but it still baffles me.

                              Does this only exist in hockey? Are NFL fans upset that there are fewer 7-3 games than in the past? Are there NBA posters on the OS boards who long for the 79-73 Heat/Knicks games of the late 90s? Or the 64-53 scores from the WNBA?
                              NFL fans are kinda upset with all the rules benefitting the offense and the league becoming pass happy.

                              People do like defense too.
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                              Originally posted by Money99
                              And how does one levy a check that will result in only a slight concussion? Do they set their shoulder-pads to 'stun'?

                              Comment

                              • jyoung
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 11132

                                #90
                                Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

                                Originally posted by DrJones
                                Are NFL fans upset that there are fewer 7-3 games than in the past?
                                My interest in football has gone down tremendously in the last couple of years. The rise of spread offenses and the dramatic increase in defensive penalties/fines is the major reason why.

                                I am not a fan of the current NFL style of play, which is to spread everybody out in the shotgun, pass the ball 40+ times a game and score 30+ points per side.

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