The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Well, I wouldn't recommend doing that...but off the top of my head, while still somewhat on-tilt from tonight:

1) Shore up the defense. Whether this year or next, St. Nick is going to retire. Kronwall is solid and Quincey was a nice pick-up, but the rest of our corps is mediocre...Suter is an UFA, maybe Holland throws a contract out there and see what sticks.

2) Commit to bringing up the younger guys in the system: Teemu Pulkkinen, Gustav Nyquist, Calle Jarnkrok, Tomas Jurco...might as well take some lumps in pursuit of getting better rather than flogging the same horse year after year.

3) Get at least 1 other scoring forward...it's clear our scoring depth is lacking. How this happens is going to depend on what happens with our roster in the off-season (Homer retiring? Trade/waive Emmerton?), but if things break right we will have cap space, and maybe go after a guy like Parise.

Probably a ton more if I think about it...Maybe a total blow-up isn't necessary...but some kind of an approach other than bringing back the same roster again is. Maybe we'll take some lumps along the way, but I'd at least like to see some direction. I'm sure Kenny Holland has a plan, hopefully it just becomes clear in the near future.

Okay. Just saying if Detroit signs Suter and Parise, you'll have 25-28 fanbases screaming "Our GM's are useless and our owners are cheap!" I agree, Detroit's situation is bad... except when compared to almost everyone else.

[goh]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

I knew the Preds would win when it was 0-0 at the end of the second but should've been anywhere between 3-0 to 8-0. Then Howard lets in that crappy goal and I think that's it...but no waved off...then he lets one in a few seconds later anyway. Then they get a powerplay and it's tied...hope yet. And ska-doosh. I can believe they can get to a game 7 but doubt they could win it at this point barring a major line shake up that works out perfectly.

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Not trying to twist the knife. Just making fun because I'm hearing the same thing around Vancouver. Fire the coach and GM! Trade everybody! Sign non-existent free agents! Everybody who doesn't win the Cup every year is garbage!

Yeah, I know...I probably just shouldn't talk for an hour or so after a loss. I'm not at my most rational at those times. I'm just like all those callers into Art Regner's old radio show in Detroit after a Lions loss....

I was actually semi-encouraged after last year - I don't think I said the same things after our loss to the Sharks, and I thought we were a few tweaks away from getting back to contending. But the roster is now getting older, and the glaring problems with our D and lack of scoring depth have just come back into focus over the course of the year. I think the home win streak masked a lot of issues that have been brewing since that game 7 loss (at home!!!!) to Pittsburgh in '09, and because of that maybe we weren't as aggressive as we could/should have been in the past off-season and trade deadline.

I do stand by my statement that this team is passion-less. I mean, the contrast is stark when you watch Pittsbugh and Philly (or any other team, really) play - even in a losing effort, the Pens show fight (not just literally). The Wings just seem to play with a very muted temperment, which while I admit is colored by whether you're winning or losing, is very distressing when you are backed into a corner and don't seem to show any desperation. They play for short stretches with manic determination, but you wonder why they can only muster that for 2-3 shifts per game? I dunno. I think we are going to wander the NHL wastelands for a while before we get a contending team again. Such is the natural cycle of these things, I guess....

It's not over for them in this series, but let's just say I will be working whilst watching the game(s) from here on in...they won't require my full "clear the schedule" attention.

On to the Tigers season it is.

[SqueakyD]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Update on Hossa

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/ct-spt-0418-blackhawks-coyotes-chicago--20120418,0,7370598.story

At 10:05 p.m., Hossa was wheeled out of the emergency room exit at Northwestern Memorial hospital to a waiting Porsche. He got into the car on his own power. He had his hand to his forehead as he was wheeled out. A Blackhawks staffer there was carrying his equipment in a bag and said he couldn't comment on his injury. Hossa did not respond when a reporter asked how he was doing.

[Psyblast]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

As for the rest of the Wings...

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are fine.

Franzen....oy. We're going to regret that contract.

Bertuzzi needs to go away, too old and slow. Same with Cleary and as I said, Holmstrom.

Filppula and Hudler are decent enough, and both had good seasons this year.

Guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Miller, Eaves...they're nice glue guys that make up the 3rd/4th lines of all the great teams. As long as they stay cheap, no problem keeping them around.

As for the defense and Howard......

This is a complete mess and a failure. The Red Wings built their championship foundation around a solid-not-super goalie with smart and sure-handed defensemen. That's been one of the biggest things Holland has always been about, never investing too much money in net, instead choosing to let the defense and overall style of play do the job. Well, that's not working anymore. The vaunted "puck possession" dominance is gone. Wings used to terrorize teams by killing them in the faceoff circle, skating circles around them, drawing penalties, and lighting them up on the PP. Now they're mediocre at best in faceoffs, and they're a complete and utter FAILURE at special teams. Coincidence that those aspects started swirling the drain once Todd McLellan left for San Jose in 2008? Hmmm.

Lidstrom - my favorite player of all-time in any sport, but he's done. He left the JLA ice for the final time tonight.

Ian White - meh. Not terrible, not awesome, just kind of...there. Considering how such a premium is placed on top 2/top 4 defensemen in the NHL, he's good enough.

Kronwall - very schitzophrenic. He's talented, and brings snarl in his own end, but he's prone to egregious errors too, and he's very clearly hit his ceiling, which was much lower than the Wings brass expected it to be.

Stuart - California Dreamin'. Bye Stewie.

Ericsson - can't believe these morons gave him 3.25 million for three years. Outside of being 6'5 and mildly physical, he possesses no talent. My god.

Quincey - gave up a first round pick for this guy? SMFH.

Kindl is mediocre, and outside of B-Smith, there are very few prospects on defense worth getting excited about. The farm system as a whole is rather thin; outside of Nyquist, Tatar, and a couple others, meh. And considering how slow the Wings bring along their prospects, what's the plan here??

And then there's Jimmy. He was a terrible liability two years ago, and played a major role in getting dusted in five by the Sharks. I thought he was a stallion last year and bailed the defense out against SJ. But he's been thoroughly mediocre this series. Maybe it's just because Rinne is standing on his head that anybody would look bad in comparison. But that was some bull**** from Howard tonight. Got bailed out with the intent to blow call, but made a complete fool of himself on the winning goal. Bad enough that three Red Wing players followed Martin Erat into the corner - did Howard have to do the same thing?

Overall, this is a very bad situation for the Red Wings, moving forward. There will be plenty of money to spend this summer on both Parise and Suter, if they're out there. But how much will that fix things? Assuming the best scenario happens and they sign both (which I'm not betting on), what's the lineup going to look like?

Parise - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Filppula - Miller
Eaves - Helm - Abdelkader

Suter - White
Kronwall - Ericsson
Kindl - Smith???

That's entirely uninspiring, and about the worst spot a franchise can be in. Not enough young prospects to solidly build for the future, but not good enough to push for a championship in the present.

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Okay. Just saying if Detroit signs Suter and Parise, you'll have 25-28 fanbases screaming "Our GM's are useless and our owners are cheap!" I agree, Detroit's situation is bad... except when compared to almost everyone else.

Oh, for sure - both won't happen. Maybe not even either one. Just throwing it out there; I understand it's not like a game of "Madden" where you can just snooker every other GM and sign every guy provided you clear out the cap space. And as you mentioned, it is VERY tough to remodel in this current era - I mean, last I checked there wasn't 6-7 million between the top spending team and the 15th or 16th team. It's a mash of teams in the middle, and breaking away from the pack won't be easy. And that's a good thing, I think.

Agree that the Wings being competitive for so long has been a blessing. What can I say, you get spoiled after so much success. Now that my temper is back to planet earth, I realize how insane Wings fans sound complaining to Canucks or other fan bases. But hey, if you can't yell crazy crap on the internet, where can you these days?

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

That's been one of the biggest things Holland has always been about, never investing too much money in net, instead choosing to let the defense and overall style of play do the job. Well, that's not working anymore.

Ready for an expensive goalie, eh? Well, have I got a deal for you!

[RealmK]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Update on Hossa

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,7370598.story

Here's the thing that drives me nuts on Shanahan's suspensions so far, he bases his calls on how severely a player is injured and not on the actual action that leads up to the review. A player can get his head smashed into the glass repeatedly out of frustration but because 1. Webber is a star player and 2. Zetterberg doesn't get hurt nothing.

Alfredson, a star player, gets an elbow and a concussion from a rookie and 3 games just because again 1. injury and the player getting injured is a star player. Meanwhile Boyle gets outright attacked, goes down to the ice, continues to get punched in the head and it's 1 game because Boyle didn't get hurt.

This whole basing suspensions basically on injury and player status is such an assbackwards way to go about it and breeds inconsistency when the action itself should be the catalyst for disciplinary action.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Agree that the Wings being competitive for so long has been a blessing. What can I say, you get spoiled after so much success. Now that my temper is back to planet earth, I realize how insane Wings fans sound complaining to Canucks or other fan bases. But hey, if you can't yell crazy crap on the internet, where can you these days?

True. Makes more sense than Canucks fans, who are OUTRAGED with the failures of the Gills/Vigneault regime. And who wouldn't be? I also yearn for the good ol' days of... oh, that's right.

[goh]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Forgot the OT picks!
Stalberg and Pyatt.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Brunette/Doan

[Psyblast]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Toews and........................Torres.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Toews and........................Torres.

If Torres scores the game winner I might have an aneurysm.

[Kobalt]

Sharp and Boedker.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

Franzen....oy. We're going to regret that contract.

Bertuzzi needs to go away, too old and slow. Same with Cleary and as I said, Holmstrom.

Yeah, I like Bert, he's a great tough guy, but no reason we should have locked him up for 2 years. That's just a sunk cost. And Franzen...well, I can't complain about that because I understood what they were trying to do at the time. It's like the Pistons with Ben Gordon and Charlie V - logical at the time, now not looking so awesome...

Filppula and Hudler are decent enough, and both had good seasons this year.

Guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Miller, Eaves...they're nice glue guys that make up the 3rd/4th lines of all the great teams. As long as they stay cheap, no problem keeping them around.

Yes, my take exactly. Although I wouldn't be upset if both Filppula and Hudler were plying their trades elsewhere next year. Not that we should be actively trying to rid ourselves of them, but if it happens...

As for the defense and Howard......

This is a complete mess and a failure. The Red Wings built their championship foundation around a solid-not-super goalie with smart and sure-handed defensemen. That's been one of the biggest things Holland has always been about, never investing too much money in net, instead choosing to let the defense and overall style of play do the job. Well, that's not working anymore. The vaunted "puck possession" dominance is gone. Wings used to terrorize teams by killing them in the faceoff circle, skating circles around them, drawing penalties, and lighting them up on the PP. Now they're mediocre at best in faceoffs, and they're a complete and utter FAILURE at special teams. Coincidence that those aspects started swirling the drain once Todd McLellan left for San Jose in 2008? Hmmm.

Yes, it's clear that the precision puck possession dominance is all over. And I agree that McLellan was a big part of it. But I also think the players we have on the roster at this point just aren't suited to that style, and coupled with the inevitable decline of some of the top defenseman, it's just the natural progression of an aging team. It just happened to coincide somewhat with Todd McLelllan leaving.

Lidstrom - my favorite player of all-time in any sport, but he's done. He left the JLA ice for the final time tonight.

I actually don't agree that he's done - I think he can still be effective, but with reduced ice time and less of a responsibility to shoulder the entire defensive load. But if he decides he's had enough and wants to retire, Godspeed to one of the all-time greats. For me, he's just behind Stevie Y for favorite Wing. But Isiah still has the top spot in my Motown heart...

Ian White - meh. Not terrible, not awesome, just kind of...there. Considering how such a premium is placed on top 2/top 4 defensemen in the NHL, he's good enough.

Kronwall - very schitzophrenic. He's talented, and brings snarl in his own end, but he's prone to egregious errors too, and he's very clearly hit his ceiling, which was much lower than the Wings brass expected it to be.

Stuart - California Dreamin'. Bye Stewie.

Ericsson - can't believe these morons gave him 3.25 million for three years. Outside of being 6'5 and mildly physical, he possesses no talent. My god.

Quincey - gave up a first round pick for this guy? SMFH.

Kindl is mediocre, and outside of B-Smith, there are very few prospects on defense worth getting excited about. The farm system as a whole is rather thin; outside of Nyquist, Tatar, and a couple others, meh. And considering how slow the Wings bring along their prospects, what's the plan here??

I think White and Kronwall are fine, Stuart will be gone (and if he didn't want to leave voluntarily should be shown the door), and Quincey is okay IMO (but definitely not great). Nyquist and Tatar are allegedly tearing it up in Grand Rapids, so maybe it's time to see how they do in the Show. Kindl is forgettable.

And then there's Jimmy. He was a terrible liability two years ago, and played a major role in getting dusted in five by the Sharks. I thought he was a stallion last year and bailed the defense out against SJ. But he's been thoroughly mediocre this series. Maybe it's just because Rinne is standing on his head that anybody would look bad in comparison. But that was some bull**** from Howard tonight. Got bailed out with the intent to blow call, but made a complete fool of himself on the winning goal. Bad enough that three Red Wing players followed Martin Erat into the corner - did Howard have to do the same thing?

This is an interesting philosophical discussion - do you spend for a top flight netminder, or else shore up the defense and let the guys in front do a lot of the netminding for you? Historically we've taken option "B", as you mentioned, but in that case we need to get tons better on defense. Seeing as how that doesn't appear to be an option in the short term, the question then becomes how much do you trust Jimmy? Personally, I think he's fine - I wouldn't say we lost this series (sorry - are losing this series) because of him, and he is solid if unspectacular. But he won't win you a series by himself, and with a mediocre defensive corps in front of him, it's a recipe for an early exit. I think you stick with Jimmy, try your best to shore up the "D", and invest in a solid backup GT.

Overall, this is a very bad situation for the Red Wings, moving forward. There will be plenty of money to spend this summer on both Parise and Suter, if they're out there. But how much will that fix things? Assuming the best scenario happens and they sign both (which I'm not betting on), what's the lineup going to look like?

Parise - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Filppula - Miller
Eaves - Helm - Abdelkader

Suter - White
Kronwall - Ericsson
Kindl - Smith???

That's entirely uninspiring, and about the worst spot a franchise can be in. Not enough young prospects to solidly build for the future, but not good enough to push for a championship in the present.

Agree...1-2 guys won't solve our problems. We are 5-6 guys from being contenders, and that won't happen in 1 or 2 years. We're stuck in no-man's land - we either need to get a lot worse to get better, or keep doing this and try to patch holes piecemeal. Either way, it's going to be uninspiring in Detroit for a while. C'est la vie.