NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

But the Bulls weren't exactly a good team from 98-04 either though.

Yeah I think it had a lot to do with Bill Wirtz dying and Rocky Wirtz actually doing things to drum up fan interest like spending money and televising home games, definitely didn't hurt landing Toews and Kane either but either way I think things would have been on the upswing with Rocky's ownership philosophy vs his fathers.

[DrJones]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

As was posted here a day ago. Any ideas on what Calgary could offer as a realistic return? T.J.Brodie too expensive as a trade piece...Fleury is a cap liability to the Pens, so trading for Brodie not cost effective, nor likely in Flames plans... So anybody got a proposal???

I propose that you will be very underwhelmed by whatever the Penguins get back for Fleury.

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

I propose that you will be very underwhelmed by whatever the Penguins get back for Fleury.

No, not underwhelmed, just curious to see what the Flames really have to offer.

Fleury, for all intents, is a salary, not performance trade. I'm guessing since Cgy has parted w/ Ramo, just curious as to see what Calgary can offer, outside of current roster, unless they move a player such as Rasmus Anderson or Jyrki Jokipakka(sp?), which I kinda doubt.

Basically asking if Calgary has a farm system worth plundering...

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

But the Bulls weren't exactly a good team from 98-04 either though.

You're telling me bad basketball doesn't outdraw bad hockey in Chicago... perhaps its true, don't have attendance figures, but I'm just guessing, that is a Bulls market, unless the 'Hawks are Conference or Final participants. Hope I'm wrong, but just seems to be the accepted tier...

[SidVish]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

That's understandable. But when that style of hockey (Shaw as an 'indepensible' hockey player, please, money99 gets it, it seems) is too slow to compete, like it pretty much was shown this postseason, why keep it around? It's not a successful blueprint anymore.

Why go back to where, as you say, people remember the last place days? Quenville has been riding the coat tails of Kane, Towes, Hossa, and Saad, etc.for about a decade. Same for Hitchcock and Sutter. No difference. No sense of skill hockey. No appreciation of it, at least.

What are you talking about? You mention Quenneville and Sutter not having a sense or appreciation of "skill hockey" yet those guys have coached the most successful teams this decade and have won 5 out of the last 7 Cups.
A lot of fans don't agree with Quenneville about various things but results are results and it's hard to argue with success.

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[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

Given your wanting the Pens to bring Saad back home from Chicago if that is how Q wants his teams to play it's pretty clear you weren't watching much hockey before that championship playoff run.

Nope, not much. Just since I moved back from Phx. AZ in 2001... Chicago has no team speed, few skill players, and mostly lumbering skaters, who have play a slow, plodding style of hockey, relative to a team like Dallas,TB,SJ, or Pit.

'Heavy' hockey,as it were. Quenn wants a scrub like Shaw busting teeth and kicking skates...

How's Rob Scuderi working out, Trevor Daley sure didn't fit in Chicago, that's for sure...

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

What are you talking about? You mention Quenneville and Sutter not having a sense or appreciation of "skill hockey" yet those guys have coached the most successful teams this decade and have won 5 out of the last 7 Cups.
A lot of fans don't agree with Quenneville about various things but results are results and it's hard to argue with success.

You apparently don't watch the slow, plodding style of 'Heavy' hockey they are known for... can't say I blame you...

Those coaches would rather keep unskilled, slow players (because they are 'indepensible'), as opposed to fast skilled skaters and puck movers, mainly because Quenn,Sutter, and Hitchcock were GOONS in their playing days, and don't know how to coach hockey. But they can coach how to alley fight on skates.

What you've been watching in LA,Chi,St.Louis (and who knows how many other markets), is an unskilled representation of a skilled, speed game, that's what I mean.

No,it's not hard to argue w/ success, especially when it's not hockey, but MMA on skates...

[SidVish]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

You got it man. I don't watch hockey.

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[Psyblast]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

You apparently don't watch the slow, plodding style of 'Heavy' hockey they are known for... can't say I blame you...

Those coaches would rather keep unskilled, slow players (because they are 'indepensible'), as opposed to fast skilled skaters and puck movers, mainly because Quenn,Sutter, and Hitchcock were GOONS in their playing days, and don't know how to coach hockey. But they can coach how to alley fight on skates.

What you've been watching in LA,Chi,St.Louis (and who knows how many other markets), is an unskilled representation of a skilled, speed game, that's what I mean.

No,it's not hard to argue w/ success, especially when it's not hockey, but MMA on skates...

I've indulged your condescending and arrogant tone in this forum for about as long as I'm willing to do so. There are ways to convey your thoughts on these matters without coming across as a pompous know-it-all and offending those you are conversing with. To say a Blackhawks fan who has watched his team win three Stanley Cups since 2010 "doesn't watch hockey" is borderline trolling.

Adjust your attitude, or find another hockey forum to post on.


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[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

You got it man. I don't watch hockey.

No, you watch hockey, and I think you understand the different styles that teams play... Dump and chase (Heavy), run and gun (Weave), hybrid style of both, and other ways to push pace and play.

I realize its hard, no, near impossible to have quality ice in multipurpose arenas, as well. That will, above all, dictate style of play. Hence a slower game in places like Chi, LA, and other cities that have a shared arena, usually w/ an NBA team. No sense building a speed team that plays on ice that is usually a slushie by May.

San Jose and Dallas, as well as Tampa have surprised me w/ their speed first game plan, considering the challenge to keep a fast track in those cities, especially in warmer months. But it has shown success.

It would be nice to see Kane,Toewes,Hossa, et al, have a chance to open the barn doors and burnout some scoreboard bulbs lighting the lamp, as opposed to what they are asked to do... which to their credit, they have done very well for themselves playing basically 2-1, or 3-1 games... but thats what Joel wants. Jab a guy, draw a deuce, score on the PP, and then just... clutch and grab hockey for 40 min.

I don't think Chicago or LA haven't earned the rings, there's a more exciting, just as productive way to play hockey. And unfortunately, clutch and grab style won titles in larger markets, so people new to hockey basically see a stunted game in potentially anchor markets for the league. That's my point.

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

I've indulged your condescending and arrogant tone in this forum for about as long as I'm willing to do so. There are ways to convey your thoughts on these matters without coming across as a pompous know-it-all and offending those you are conversing with. To say a Blackhawks fan who has watched his team win three Stanley Cups since 2010 "doesn't watch hockey" is borderline trolling.

Adjust your attitude, or find another hockey forum to post on.

Not a problem. Fair enough. Not interested in trolling, or condescending. Just hard to get noticed by you guys... Apologies to you and others for tone...

Would seem per past posts in other forums, you seem to tire of clutch and grab, grinder hockey, that limits penalties and flow, for the sake of parity... is this an incorrect guess?

If so, what, aside from a total change of officiating, could essentially make the lumbering grinder obsolete as a NHL player? The Final was very anti-climatic, save for Martin Jones having a career performance for 6 games. But that was mainly due to the lack of team speed on San Jose, being unable to compete 5 on 5, essentially.

So now expansion will again, lower the talent pool, and officiating will compensate for the sake of parity, but the game still suffers... and so do fans of hockey.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

It would be nice to see Kane,Toewes,Hossa, et al, have a chance to open the barn doors and burnout some scoreboard bulbs lighting the lamp, as opposed to what they are asked to do... which to their credit, they have done very well for themselves playing basically 2-1, or 3-1 games... but thats what Joel wants. Jab a guy, draw a deuce, score on the PP, and then just... clutch and grab hockey for 40 min.

I mean Patrick Kane just led the NHL in scoring with a 106 point season, Artemi Panarin scored 77 in his rookie season.

The Blackhawks definitely don't play the style of hockey you seem to think they do. Toews is used a lot in defensive situations so yeah he could probably score more if he was utilized like Kane is but I'd say the Blackhawks are balanced more than slow and plodding. You have the Panarin/Anisimov/Kane line which is big time offense, the LW of the day/Toews/Hossa line which is defensively responsible but capable of scoring, the Kruger line which is the shutdown line, then mix and match on the other.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

Why anyone would live 15 years in America and then be like "no thanks bro I'm good I'm gonna go back to Russia and live there now" is ****ing beyond me, but ok whatever you want Pavel bro.

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

I mean Patrick Kane just led the NHL in scoring with a 106 point season, Artemi Panarin scored 77 in his rookie season.

The Blackhawks definitely don't play the style of hockey you seem to think they do. Toews is used a lot in defensive situations so yeah he could probably score more if he was utilized like Kane is but I'd say the Blackhawks are balanced more than slow and plodding. You have the Panarin/Anisimov/Kane line which is big time offense, the LW of the day/Toews/Hossa line which is defensively responsible but capable of scoring, the Kruger line which is the shutdown line, then mix and match on the other.

Okay, this is good quick, overview of the team.

It seems that Kane and Toews lines would account for majority of ice time, with Kruger line on for D zone faceoffs (when not Toews line?) and penalty kill, along w/ 4th line.

I mean, essentially Chicago is essentially a 2 to 2 1\2 line team when playing 5 on 5. Kruger and 4th line won't see much 5 on 5 time(?), or at least not nearly as much as Toews line. Unless I'm wrong, and Chicago does roll 4 lines, in short, quick shifts. Doesn't seem likely, based on how I interpret your breakdown of the lines.

I'm not saying Chicago uses 6 forwards, but the top six are the obvious point producers, per Kane and Panarin production. So I would guess their ice time is higher, and allows for more chances to score. Pretty standard distribution.

I would attack them, much like Pens did SJ, roll 4 lines constantly, until Kane and Toews can't double shift anymore, and exploit the bottom 2 lines, by fatiguing top 2 lines. Assuming pace of play isn't too chopped up w/ stoppages and faceoffs, then matchups factor in. Pens were maybe the best conditioned and fastest team, based on the roll 4 mentality. That was biggest surprise to me, that SJ just didn't have foot speed to control puck or pace, save for Gm5. And even then, Jones had to make over 40 saves, so how much did they really control? So it's interesting to see how the styles, even a hybrid one like SJ(?), can be exploited by flat out speed.

Maybe you can explain this to me, and many Pens fans. Was there an issue with Trevor Daley off the ice, or in the room, that put him in the press box until the trade? Of all the moves made this season, no one here can understand why Daley was so undervalued there, since Scuds was really a shell of himself, unless it was a contract trade. But it was a lynchpin deal to fortify the Pens top D pair.

Appreciate your patience, and the breakdown.

[75 58 47 old school]

Re: NHL 2016 Off-Season Thread

Why anyone would live 15 years in America and then be like "no thanks bro I'm good I'm gonna go back to Russia and live there now" is ****ing beyond me, but ok whatever you want Pavel bro.

His daughter seems to be the ultimate reason, that is understandable to me. He's had a full career, although the ending is slightly sour... hope it doesn't tarnish a HOF career in retrospect.