The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

If there were no stakes involved, how would that change how the fans of those bad Eastern teams feel? "Well, we were out of the playoffs by Christmas, but at least we won the John Ziegler Memorial Trophy in February!" The "winners" would be meme'd into oblivion. It could even have a detrimental effect; I can easily imagine the GM of a struggling team using a mid-season trophy as a rationalization to stay pat.

Like I said earlier, the stakes need to be big. If a playoff spot is on the line and San Jose somehow wins the tournament, the West is in chaos for the rest of the regular season. Not only does that reduce the number of playoff spots available from 8 to 7, there's now a huge incentive to get the top seed and face the Sharks.

I could get behind this idea.

I think the NBA's mid-season tournament idea is moronic, and I frankly didn't even know they had already played games for it. I have no idea how it works, how it's structured, when it's played, or anything else, and I'm not going to spend 1 second of my time figuring any of it out.

Sports only matter if there are some meaningful stakes involved. Otherwise, it's simply an exhibition.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

I could get behind this idea.

I think the NBA's mid-season tournament idea is moronic, and I frankly didn't even know they had already played games for it. I have no idea how it works, how it's structured, when it's played, or anything else, and I'm not going to spend 1 second of my time figuring any of it out.

Sports only matter if there are some meaningful stakes involved. Otherwise, it's simply an exhibition.

The NBA's "midseason" tournament ends on Dec. 9, at which point most teams will have played about 20 games. It's a feeble attempt to generate fake excitement (and revenue) at a time of the year in which nobody gives a **** about the NBA, ie from Opening Night to Christmas Day.

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

The NBA's "midseason" tournament ends on Dec. 9, at which point most teams will have played about 20 games. It's a feeble attempt to generate fake excitement (and revenue) at a time of the year in which nobody gives a **** about the NBA, ie from Opening Night to Christmas Day.

It's amazing to me how little about their own sport / potential fans these sports leagues understand. I used to follow the NBA very closely, even during some extremely dark days for my team of choice when we were regularly fielding lineups full of guys that you wouldn't recognize if they were wearing their game jerseys and a nametag. But as of the last decade or so, if the NBA were playing a game in my backyard, I wouldn't even open up my blinds to watch.

I think baseball, of all the sports not named 'football', has actually started to do some 'self scouting' and made some pretty positive changes. I don't agree with all of them, but at a minimum they seem to be trying to understand the viewer base and adjust. There's an argument for how successfully they're doing so, but it's more than I see from any other league.

I don't pretend to know how to nudge hockey in the right direction (other than maybe not allowing the Red Wings to go down 5-0 to the Rangers in the 2nd period...), but I don't think an in-season tournament with no stakes is the answer.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

It's amazing to me how little about their own sport / potential fans these sports leagues understand. I used to follow the NBA very closely, even during some extremely dark days for my team of choice when we were regularly fielding lineups full of guys that you wouldn't recognize if they were wearing their game jerseys and a nametag. But as of the last decade or so, if the NBA were playing a game in my backyard, I wouldn't even open up my blinds to watch.

I think baseball, of all the sports not named 'football', has actually started to do some 'self scouting' and made some pretty positive changes. I don't agree with all of them, but at a minimum they seem to be trying to understand the viewer base and adjust. There's an argument for how successfully they're doing so, but it's more than I see from any other league.

I don't pretend to know how to nudge hockey in the right direction (other than maybe not allowing the Red Wings to go down 5-0 to the Rangers in the 2nd period...), but I don't think an in-season tournament with no stakes is the answer.

TBH I think the NHL has done a reasonable job over the last few years in addressing my on-ice concerns. (Off-ice is a different matter.) Yes, the loser point still bugs me (no, I don't want a 3-2-1 system either), but there's a much better balance between scoring and defence/goaltending than there has been in the past. There's relative parity. The situation that bhurst99 brought up (there was a clear gap between the top 8 teams in the East and everyone else) is a one-off IMO. I remember the 2018 MLB season was disgustingly chalk (teams were pretty much locked into their playoff spots well before the All-Star break, and the playoffs featured few surprises or memorable games), but that's just going to happen sometimes. You can't guarantee that there will be exciting playoff races each season.

As far as the NBA goes, there are problems, but surprisingly parity isn't one of them at the moment. Most of the American stars are either ancient, injury-prone, or both. Seriously, which US-born players 30 or under qualify as superstars? Maybe Tatum and Booker? Old farts like LeBron, Steph, KD, etc. can't afford to waste their energy on playing 70+ games. Kawhi and AD are made of glass. Ja and Zion are undisciplined losers. The NBA complains about "load management", then increases the playoff field to 20 teams, which further incentivizes stars to sit. The only way to make the NBA season more meaningful is to either reduce the number of regular season games or reduce the number of playoff teams, but that would cost $$$. Thus we get dumb stuff like a consequence-free "Mid-Season Tournament" (sounds like an EA executive came up with it; that's not a compliment!)

My main problem with the NBA is the excruciating foul/timeout/replay/TV timeout sequence at the end of close games. Make me NBA Commissioner, and the 1st rule changes I'd institute would apply to the final 2 minutes of every 4th quarter and OT:

- Each team has only 1 timeout to use, regardless of how many they've used beforehand
- No TV timeouts
- Replays are handled by a remote HQ in New York; decisions must be relayed in 30 seconds, or the call on the court stands
- Once your team is in the bonus, all fouls are 2 (or 3) and the ball

(Of course, as soon as I've made those changes for the betterment of the game, I'd promptly be fired for the resulting loss in ad revenue.)

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

TBH I think the NHL has done a reasonable job over the last few years in addressing my on-ice concerns. (Off-ice is a different matter.) Yes, the loser point still bugs me (no, I don't want a 3-2-1 system either), but there's a much better balance between scoring and defence/goaltending than there has been in the past. There's relative parity. The situation that bhurst99 brought up (there was a clear gap between the top 8 teams in the East and everyone else) is a one-off IMO. I remember the 2018 MLB season was disgustingly chalk (teams were pretty much locked into their playoff spots well before the All-Star break, and the playoffs featured few surprises or memorable games), but that's just going to happen sometimes. You can't guarantee that there will be exciting playoff races each season.

I would agree with that. Of course, I had no real issue with the 'dead puck' era, but I can certainly understand that was not particularly appealing to the average person and not a great way to grow interest in the game. I think the game is in pretty good shape on the ice.

As far as the NBA goes, there are problems, but surprisingly parity isn't one of them at the moment. Most of the American stars are either ancient, injury-prone, or both. Seriously, which US-born players 30 or under qualify as superstars? Maybe Tatum and Booker? Old farts like LeBron, Steph, KD, etc. can't afford to waste their energy on playing 70+ games. Kawhi and AD are made of glass. Ja and Zion are undisciplined losers. The NBA complains about "load management", then increases the playoff field to 20 teams, which further incentivizes stars to sit. The only way to make the NBA season more meaningful is to either reduce the number of regular season games or reduce the number of playoff teams, but that would cost $$$. Thus we get dumb stuff like a consequence-free "Mid-Season Tournament" (sounds like an EA executive came up with it; that's not a compliment!)

My main problem with the NBA is the excruciating foul/timeout/replay/TV timeout sequence at the end of close games. Make me NBA Commissioner, and the 1st rule changes I'd institute would apply to the final 2 minutes of every 4th quarter and OT:

- Each team has only 1 timeout to use, regardless of how many they've used beforehand
- No TV timeouts
- Replays are handled by a remote HQ in New York; decisions must be relayed in 30 seconds, or the call on the court stands
- Once your team is in the bonus, all fouls are 2 (or 3) and the ball

(Of course, as soon as I've made those changes for the betterment of the game, I'd promptly be fired for the resulting loss in ad revenue.)

You've got my vote. Not that it's an elected position...

The issues with the NBA are legion. Can't even collect them all in 1 post. But I suppose a common through-line to all of my issues with the league is that in the so-called "player empowerment" era, the league seems to run for the sole benefit of the players, not the fans. I suppose that would be fine if it led to a better product on the floor, but that doesn't appear to be the case (and viewership seems to back that claim). The downstream effects of players having all the power in the league has functionally led to unlimited and untimed free-agency (effectively), which means any player can go to any team they want, at any time, without regard to their contract (see: Anthony Davis, James Harden, Dame Lillard, Kawahi, etc. etc. etc.). This leads to:

a) lack of fan attachment to teams/stars (why invest when a guy will just be gone the next year? who is even gonna be on my team next year?)
b) lack of real rivalries in the league (why hate Harden - you might be teammates in 6 months)
c) lack of serious competition for 80% of the league year (a player is concerned about their own career moves 1st, their shoe deal 2nd, playing with their buddies 3rd, and maybe the team 4th if you're lucky...)
d) de-valuing of individual NBA games (the players and coaches are flat-out telling you with their actions that the regular season games do not matter - let me know when Mahomes or Hurts just sit a game out when they're perfectly healthy for no reason)
e) de-valuing of winning an NBA title (to some - many? - the perceived legitimacy of the "Superteam" era titles does not seem to be as hard-won as, say, the Pistons titles in '89/'90, or any team from that era. Leveraging your star power to team up with the Superfriends to win an insta-title seems a little less than Dostoyevsky-esque in its struggle/scope).

There's a whole lot else to say about this, but since this is the hockey thread I'll just stop myself now. It will be interesting to see how much money the NBA is able to pull for their next media rights deal, though - somehow, for reasons I can't comprehend, the value of sports media rights seems totally uncoupled from viewership. Hard to understand that business model.

Somewhat back on-topic, who's the first coach (not named David Quinn) to get canned this year?

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Somewhat back on-topic, who's the first coach (not named David Quinn) to get canned this year?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

[Majingir]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

McDavid now having his 5th coach!? Oilers are a mess.

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Somewhat back on-topic, who's the first coach (not named David Quinn) to get canned this year?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

McDavid now having his 5th coach!? Oilers are a mess.

LOL Missed the timing by 5 days on that one.

Who's next?

[Majingir]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

LOL Missed the timing by 5 days on that one.



Who's next?

Should be Keefe, but Leafs did the opposite of fire him.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Who's next?

Should be Keefe, but Leafs did the opposite of fire him.

Maj got the province right. It has to be DJ Smith, no? This is his 5th season, the Sens are underachieving (again), and Dorion got the can just last week.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Like what the hell is this, LOL.

Canucks on the mother of all heaters. I'm enjoying this while it lasts.

[pietasterp]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Like what the hell is this, LOL.

Canucks on the mother of all heaters. I'm enjoying this while it lasts.

They looked good last night. Entertaining game as well.

[Majingir]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Like what the hell is this, LOL.



Canucks on the mother of all heaters. I'm enjoying this while it lasts.

I don't think Canucks fans could take another finals vs Boston.

[DrJones]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

I don't think Canucks fans could take another finals vs Boston.

My expectations are low. I'll be content with a playoff spot and Pettersson getting re-signed.

[Majingir]

Re: The Official 2023-24 Season Talk Thread

Sweden series seems to have been a hit.

Couldn't ask for a better ending for the Leafs with Nylander getting OTW and Sundin there as well.


Matthews wants a game in Mexico (his moms side is from Mexico), and the Stars have wanted one there too.

Maybe we see Leafs and Stars in Mexico City next year? Throw in Coyotes while they're at it (count it as a Coyotes home game and it'll be their biggest one all year).