Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Dude, compared to the big sports like baseball, football, soccer, hockey, basketball, golf, tennis, NASCAR, all the college versions, and whatever else gets bigtime television coverage - track and field is small peanuts. So the guy is good at his little leaping activity, big whoop.

I doubt many people can do this:



I doubt many people care that she can either. Being able to do something is one thing, it matter is another thouogh...

Oh, so TV coverage and ratings are the barometers of athletic prowess? There's a news flash. Good thing I didn't have liquid in my mouth or my computer screen would have looked like modern art.

Boxing has had sh*t ratings for the last five to 10 years. So I guess all of the current boxers aren't athletes. Same with hockey: Its ratings are in the toilet, so guys like Jaromir Jagr, Joe Thornton and Chris Pronger aren't athletes.

And what about downhill skiing and cycling? Horrid ratings. Yep, they're not athletes in your misguided little world.

The truth is, a guy like Moses trained harder and longer than nearly any stick-and-ball athlete to reach the pinnacle of his sport. And he stayed at that pinnacle for 10 years. You don't have to like the sport, but to not respect that feat makes you move the imbecile meter toward the right.

Take care,
PK

[Herbsinator]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Yep, the brackets at the end of your post say it all: [ignorant rant]

So, Moses isn't an athlete but Big Papi, who stands in a batter's box four times per game as a DH, is? The same guy, who, if he fails seven times out of 10, is still a superstar. Yet Moses, who never lost for 10 consecutive years, isn't an athlete?

Yeah, OK. Buy a vowel and a clue for $500.

Here, try this: Set up a bunch of 36-inch-high barriers around your local high school track. Now run one lap around that track, jumping those hurdles. Oh, and complete one lap in 47 seconds.

There is absolutely no way in hell you'll ever do that in your lifetime. But if you're a fairly large, strong man, you could catch a pitch from a BP pitcher and nail it over the short-porch fence of a major league park.

Same thing with golf. If you have played the game a bit and have a good driver, chances are you probably can rip one close to 300 yards or slightly longer -- or make a 40-foot putt -- like Tiger. You can't do it as accurately or often or under pressure like him, but you could do it.

But there's no way in hell that you could run the 400-meter hurdles in 47 seconds, let alone do it well enough to beat everyone in the world for 10 consecutive years.

That is the definition of a supreme, dominant athlete.

Take care,
PK

I think you are a little off on your assesment of Tiger's acheivments. Yes, anyone can get lucky and hit a drive 300 yards or make a 40-foot putt. But how many can stand at the 18th tee on Masters Sunday up by one shot with a couple thousand people standing there watching you, plus millions of people watching on TV and hit a 300 yard drive. I think you are underestimating Tiger's achievments. What makes Tiger's accomplishments even greater is when you factor in the amount of pressure Tiger is under. Edwin Moses never had to put up with the media circus that Tiger does on a daily basis. Edwin Moses was never mobbed by thousands of autograph seekers everytime he went to and from practice. Lets take a look at the Numbers:
World Rankings
1. Tiger Woods 20.99
2. Phil Mickelson 8.93
A difference of 12.06
2. Phil Mickelson 8.93
200. Hunter Mahan .82
A difference of 8.11

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

There's no question that Woods is the most dominant athlete of today. But Moses was unbeaten over a 10-year span. 10 YEARS.

That means he never lost. Never had a bad day. Never clipped a hurdle enough to lose. Never was injured enough to lose. He was perfect -- for 122 straight races.

The most impressive stat about Woods to me isn't his 12 major victories. It's that he's never lost a major in which he either leads or is tied for the lead after 54 holes. That is some savage killer instinct.

Still, Moses was PERFECT. For 10 years. It doesn't matter what you think of his sport or how much media coverage it had. The guy had total mastery of his chosen profession, a very training-intensive one at that, for 10 years in a row.

And Moses was covered extensively by media across Europe, where big meets would attract crowds of 50,000-80,000 during the 70s and 80s. That was before drug scandals tainted the sport, when guys like Moses, Sebastian Coe, Carl Lewis and Sergei Bubka were world sports superstars in nearly every country but the U.S.

Take care,
PK

[4BiddenKnight]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Well, Moses was dominant, but I don't think he was intimidating. I happen to have never watched a Mike Tyson fight during the late 80s. So I happen to not know what's going on in those fights. But him coming close to actually killing someone? That's intimidation and fear. I'd be frightened by that myself.

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Well, Moses was dominant, but I don't think he was intimidating. I happen to have never watched a Mike Tyson fight during the late 80s. So I happen to not know what's going on in those fights. But him coming close to actually killing someone? That's intimidation and fear. I'd be frightened by that myself.

Dude:

You need to watch some of Tyson's fights on ESPN Classic. The guy was truly frightening. Classic ran a program last weekend that showed some of his early fights on his way to his first title belt, and the guy's fists were like miniature atom bombs.

Take care,
PK

[MassNole]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

There's no question that Woods is the most dominant athlete of today. But Moses was unbeaten over a 10-year span. 10 YEARS.

That means he never lost. Never had a bad day. Never clipped a hurdle enough to lose. Never was injured enough to lose. He was perfect -- for 122 straight races.

The most impressive stat about Woods to me isn't his 12 major victories. It's that he's never lost a major in which he either leads or is tied for the lead after 54 holes. That is some savage killer instinct.

Still, Moses was PERFECT. For 10 years. It doesn't matter what you think of his sport or how much media coverage it had. The guy had total mastery of his chosen profession, a very training-intensive one at that, for 10 years in a row.

And Moses was covered extensively by media across Europe, where big meets would attract crowds of 50,000-80,000 during the 70s and 80s. That was before drug scandals tainted the sport, when guys like Moses, Sebastian Coe, Carl Lewis and Sergei Bubka were world sports superstars in nearly every country but the U.S.

Take care,
PK

No matter how you want to sell it the 400m hurdles is such a fringe sport that he will never be seen in this light. Had he done this in oh say the 100m sprint, he would, but even for track the 400m isn't a big dog race.

If we want to get into fringe sports and dominance, may I suggest the US Men's National Lacrosse team. They went from 1978-2006 between losses, finally losing to Canada in Canada this past WLC (mainly because of horrendous roster decisions, good to see lax following the basketball model). That is nearly 30 years of perfection.

[lionsfan49]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Intimidating, imposing, frightening? lol not a golfer.
Best golfer ever? certainly.

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

No matter how you want to sell it the 400m hurdles is such a fringe sport that he will never be seen in this light. Had he done this in oh say the 100m sprint, he would, but even for track the 400m isn't a big dog race.

If we want to get into fringe sports and dominance, may I suggest the US Men's National Lacrosse team. They went from 1978-2006 between losses, finally losing to Canada in Canada this past WLC (mainly because of horrendous roster decisions, good to see lax following the basketball model). That is nearly 30 years of perfection.

The lax team is a good comparison but pales to Moses for one reason: The world does not play lacrosse. The world does run the 400-meter hurdles and play golf.

It's funny that people are up in arms that a hurdler who won 122 straight races in a worldwide event against all comers from across the globe can be put on a pedestal ahead of a golfer. Did I miss something in the original post? Did the thread's headline originally say:

"Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports Televised on ESPN, Pimped by Sports Illustrated and ESPN The Sh*tzine and Loved Only by 20-Something American Males Who Have No Clue That There Are Sports Popular in This World That Aren't Popular in America Yet Are Filled with Amazing Athletes As Talented or More Gifted Than Those in Jock-Sniffing American Stick-and-Ball Sports?"

Let me know if I missed something here.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Intimidating, imposing, frightening? lol not a golfer.
Best golfer ever? certainly.

Let's wait until Tiger passes The Golden Bear on the majors' win list before handing him that title. It will happen, almost certainly within the next five years, but I can't give Tiger the crown until he passes Nicklaus.

Take care,
PK

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

The lax team is a good comparison but pales to Moses for one reason: The world does not play lacrosse. The world does run the 400-meter hurdles and play golf.

It's funny that people are up in arms that a hurdler who won 122 straight races in a worldwide event against all comers from across the globe can be put on a pedestal ahead of a golfer. Did I miss something in the original post? Did the thread's headline originally say:

"Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports Televised on ESPN, Pimped by Sports Illustrated and ESPN The Sh*tzine and Loved Only by 20-Something American Males Who Have No Clue That There Are Sports Popular in This World That Aren't Popular in America Yet Are Filled with Amazing Athletes As Talented or More Gifted Than Those in Jock-Sniffing American Stick-and-Ball Sports?"

Let me know if I missed something here.

Take care,
PK

It didn't, but I would hope relevance is assumed. Hurdles? Who cares. As mentioned, if it were in one of the major major track and field events, like the 100, then I could see it mattering. But hurdles? Big whoop. Sidenote, cup-stacking is on ESPN 2 right now. If one of those folk went on to go unbeaten for the next 30 years, would anyone give a flying hoot?

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Comparing an elite, Olympic sport like hurdling to cup stacking shows that you're a few cups short of a full cupboard.

And again, you don't get the point: The question was about if Tiger was the most intimidating, imposing and frightening player in sport, not in a sport that you like.

Incredible that you can't see that. Maybe the fog will lift soon.

Take care,
PK

[forensicd]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

At one point in time, the team my grandfather coached at iu held every single world record in every single event, but it was swimming, so does that mean his team actually sucked becuase it isnt as popular as baseball? Does that fact that the team he built from scratch won 6 straight ncaa championships, won nearly 200 consecutive swim meets, and heralded more olympic champions than any other school in history not matter, becuase ESPN doesnt show swimming, even though it is one of the hardest sports to participate and be successful in? Your thought process astounds me. A baseball player trains a fraction of the time, and puts in a lot less hours, then almost all of the "non" sports atheletes you are calling out, but according to you im sure some big fat sloppy guy pitching to another big fat sloppy guy is more of an athlete than Mark Spitz, who won 7 gold medals in one olympic games. Thats a pretty good analysis of sports you have there; if its not on tv, then who cares.

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

And to further Forensic's excellent point, what athletic characteristics are in golf or baseball that aren't in track or swimming?

Each requires power.
Each requires stamina.
Each requires precision.
Each requires discipline.
Each requires strength.
Each requires courage.
Each requires competitive instinct.

So I guess you have proved your point: If it's not covered regularly on TV or by some sh*tty major sports rag, it's not a sport.

Brilliant. Take a bow.

Take care,
PK

[pietasterp]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Well, I think forensic and pk500 ended this line of discussion before I could throw in my worthless opinion on this subject, but I think the most fascinating thing about this thread is how it lays bare the difference in opinions based on age/generation gap. I simply can't believe that people think ANY track sport is "fringe"...the 400 hurdles isn't the most glamarous event, but I can't even believe there's a discussion regarding the relative athletic merits of it - you could make the argument that track events are the PUREST of all sports (there was no golf or basketball at the original Olympics, but there sure was running - because it's pure athletic competition). Whether or not the rest of you guys have ever heard of Edwin Moses doesn't make his accomplishments/dominance any less impressive. In fact, there are a lot of people that know a hell of a lot more about sports than anyone on this board who would edumacate our butts about Moses and a lot of other great athletes that were unbelieveable dominant in their day.

I've been making this argument since Michael Jordan suddenly became the consensus "greatest player ever" (incidentally, right around the time ESPN and Nike came to prominence...) in the early 90's, but everyone these days is so centered on our own times and frames of reference that we simply can't believe that anyone that did anything before WE were watching sports could have been worth a damn. It's ridiculous. There's a whole generation of kids that flat-out don't believe there were guys playing basketball in the 60's and 70's that were as good as Jordan, or that there were track athletes that were huge stars, or that cycling was a sport before Lance Armstrong came onto the scene...ESPN, SI, Nike, and whoever else have created who we consider stars and what sports we consider important, that now it appears to the cynical eye that sports leagues exist to simply market their own merchandise, rather than provide a forum for competition. Pop culture sports...sad.

Okay, so that rant was totally un-called for...I was just appalled by the vehemence with which pk500's assertion that Edwin Moses was the most dominant athlete ever was attacked in this forum. I realized we were really continental here in the U.S., but sheesh - I hadn't realized HOW egocentric we'd become...

[pk500]

Re: Is Tiger The Most Intimidating, Imposing and Frightening Figure Ever in Sports?

Beautifully thought and eloquently stated, Pieta. Far from a rant, man.

Take care,
PK