A real solutions to Online Tournament

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  • Drakar
    Rookie
    • Aug 2005
    • 310

    #1

    A real solutions to Online Tournament

    EA should divide the leaderboard base on attribute level. Example :

    Rookie leaderboard : below 4 avg attributes
    Veteran Leaderboard : between 4 - 6 avg attribute
    Seasonsed leaderboard : 6 -8 avg attribute
    Champion leaderboard : 8-10 avg attribute
    Master leaderboard : 10-12 avg attribute

    This can also be further divided by the difficulty level played. So we are looking at at least 20 different leaderboard by tournament. This would allow every player range to equally participate in online tournament without feeling anhiliated if they don't have an max attribute created player.
  • Barto
    Rookie
    • Jan 2007
    • 162

    #2
    Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

    That is a great idea!

    Comment

    • mikemj23
      Rookie
      • Jun 2003
      • 122

      #3
      Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

      Originally posted by Drakar
      EA should divide the leaderboard base on attribute level. Example :

      Rookie leaderboard : below 4 avg attributes
      Veteran Leaderboard : between 4 - 6 avg attribute
      Seasonsed leaderboard : 6 -8 avg attribute
      Champion leaderboard : 8-10 avg attribute
      Master leaderboard : 10-12 avg attribute

      This can also be further divided by the difficulty level played. So we are looking at at least 20 different leaderboard by tournament. This would allow every player range to equally participate in online tournament without feeling anhiliated if they don't have an max attribute created player.
      Or just do one try, attribute capped tourneys which are coming soon.

      Comment

      • Zalf
        Pro
        • Jul 2004
        • 552

        #4
        Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

        Originally posted by mikemj23
        Or just do one try, attribute capped tourneys which are coming soon.
        Yeah attributes only matter to a point. Someone breaking 60 in Tour Pro tournies isn't doing it because their skills are maxed just like maxing my skills isn't going to allow me to break 60 and compete with those who do.

        Have they said officially how they are going to handle disconnects on the one try tournaments. I think they are a great idea but they won't do any good if you can just force a disconnect before your last putt on 18 and start over.

        Comment

        • mikemj23
          Rookie
          • Jun 2003
          • 122

          #5
          Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

          Originally posted by Zalf
          Yeah attributes only matter to a point. Someone breaking 60 in Tour Pro tournies isn't doing it because their skills are maxed just like maxing my skills isn't going to allow me to break 60 and compete with those who do.

          Have they said officially how they are going to handle disconnects on the one try tournaments. I think they are a great idea but they won't do any good if you can just force a disconnect before your last putt on 18 and start over.
          Excellent points. I truly think that in order to get the most competitive and realistic scores it's all going to come down to one try tourneys. Not sure how they are going to handle disconnects etc. I think the only way you can truly have one-try tourneys is to make it very clear that if you start a round then you have to finish the round to have the score posted for that tourney. This would take care of someone quitting after 17 (or at any time for that matter) and just starting over. It would be unfortunate for disconnect players, but hopefully the disconnects wouldn't happen very often.

          Not sure how else you would do it in order to make it truly a "one try tourney"

          Comment

          • Drakar
            Rookie
            • Aug 2005
            • 310

            #6
            Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

            Originally posted by mikemj23
            Or just do one try, attribute capped tourneys which are coming soon.
            I find the game not very challenging with attributes capped. I think that hitting the ball 340 yards in the middle of the fairway all the time is just a little too easy. I enjoy the mid 7s attributes. you hit for 280 yards with the driver. It make the game very challenging from the black.

            I have an 15 handicap in real life. Not the greatest golfer in the world but I know how challenging it is to par an 460yard par 4. I have played golf on console/computer for a very long time. From intellivision gof, Sega Arnold Palmer golf, Links, Links 386 and Links 2004 on xbox just to name a few. the left stick mechanic needs to be involving to something new : Dual stick swinging maybe ? left stick : up/down, right stick : left/right ?

            Comment

            • rmacteague
              Rookie
              • Nov 2002
              • 210

              #7
              Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

              This is a good idea... however it will only fix so much.

              I think they need to find the cap point where the mass amount of players are scoring near PGA pro averages.

              For the upper 5% you are never going to be able to reign them in without making it miserable for the masses, they have more time, use systematic methods, etc... So you make an upper tier for those averaging 3-4 strokes or more under the pro average every round so that they can compete against their own.

              Have a tier for people scoring near the pro averages (this should be your biggest group of users).

              Have a tier for people averaging above par.

              There are all kinds of skill levels that enjoy the challenges of tour mode and attribute caps but don't have skill or time or desire to compete with the upper 5%.

              Every level of golf is like this in the real world (PGA, Nike, Nation wide pro tours)
              Amature Tournaments (There are handicap tiers that you compete in)
              Local Golf Course League (handicap tiers)

              You can even make it so a player needs to earn a tour card for a certain tier.
              Last edited by rmacteague; 06-11-2009, 11:30 AM.

              Comment

              • mikemj23
                Rookie
                • Jun 2003
                • 122

                #8
                Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                Originally posted by Drakar
                I find the game not very challenging with attributes capped. I think that hitting the ball 340 yards in the middle of the fairway all the time is just a little too easy. I enjoy the mid 7s attributes. you hit for 280 yards with the driver. It make the game very challenging from the black.

                I have an 15 handicap in real life. Not the greatest golfer in the world but I know how challenging it is to par an 460yard par 4. I have played golf on console/computer for a very long time. From intellivision gof, Sega Arnold Palmer golf, Links, Links 386 and Links 2004 on xbox just to name a few. the left stick mechanic needs to be involving to something new : Dual stick swinging maybe ? left stick : up/down, right stick : left/right ?
                I meant capped at or around 7 (or even lower) not capped at max. Find the balance that is going to produce realistic scores. For example : 63, 64, 65 would be a heck of a round and shooting 80 isn't out of the question, with the average being somewhere around Par, just like in real life.

                Tiger is leading in real life scoring average through June 7th with a 68.88 average and the 190th ranked guy is a 73.87. I know that it will probably never be possible to replicate that (no matter how hard core I want the game to be, I still realize there are inherent limitations being that it's a video game), but trying to get close to it should be somewhat realistic.

                Comment

                • Zalf
                  Pro
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 552

                  #9
                  Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                  Originally posted by rmacteague
                  This is a good idea... however it will only fix so much.

                  I think they need to find the cap point where the mass amount of players are scoring near PGA pro averages.

                  For the upper 5% you are never going to be able to reign them in without making it miserable for the masses, they have more time, use systematic methods, etc... So you make an upper tier for those averaging 3-4 strokes or more under the pro average every round so that they can compete against their own.

                  Have a tier for people scoring near the pro averages (this should be your biggest group of users).

                  Have a tier for people averaging above par.

                  There are all kinds of skill levels that enjoy the challenges of tour mode and attribute caps but don't have skill or time or desire to compete with the upper 5%.

                  Every level of golf is like this in the real world (PGA, Nike, Nation wide pro tours)
                  Amature Tournaments (There are handicap tiers that you compete in)
                  Local Golf Course League (handicap tiers)

                  You can even make it so a player needs to earn a tour card for a certain tier.
                  I agree that the Top 5% or so are what creates the problem for a majority of us. You have a handful 10-15 strokes ahead of everyone and then it really bunches up. You have to address why there is such a gap. It seems that one of the reasons is people play the rounds over and over again to chart out exact conditions and locations. One try tournaments will help that if disconnects are handled properly.

                  Another thing I am starting to wonder about is green chipping. I saw a post by one of the top scorers on how he did repeat a round several times trying to beat the low score "without green chipping" and couldn't do it. The thread was about repeating rounds so this statement stood out to me as one of the things that might be creating that 10-15 stroke gap. I have never been good at chipping in TW so I never use it even off of the green. Does anyone know how much easier a 30 ft green chip than a 30 ft putt on l. fast greens? I know the putt can be very difficult to just get close. If green chipping is significantly easier and people are making a lot of those then that could be a big part of the difference. I know certain shot types are locked out from certain lies so if green chips are tipping the scale then locking out chip shots on greens might really help. Yes there are situations where pros chip on the green but those are EXTREMELY rare. I would be willing to sacrifice that one technical rule if it means bringing that top 5% back towards the rest of the pack.

                  Comment

                  • mikemj23
                    Rookie
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 122

                    #10
                    Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                    Originally posted by rmacteague
                    This is a good idea... however it will only fix so much.

                    I think they need to find the cap point where the mass amount of players are scoring near PGA pro averages.

                    For the upper 5% you are never going to be able to reign them in without making it miserable for the masses, they have more time, use systematic methods, etc... So you make an upper tier for those averaging 3-4 strokes or more under the pro average every round so that they can compete against their own.

                    Have a tier for people scoring near the pro averages (this should be your biggest group of users).

                    Have a tier for people averaging above par.

                    There are all kinds of skill levels that enjoy the challenges of tour mode and attribute caps but don't have skill or time or desire to compete with the upper 5%.

                    Every level of golf is like this in the real world (PGA, Nike, Nation wide pro tours)
                    Amature Tournaments (There are handicap tiers that you compete in)
                    Local Golf Course League (handicap tiers)

                    You can even make it so a player needs to earn a tour card for a certain tier.
                    I still think it will be very interesting to see what the results are with true "one-try" tourneys, capped at realistic levels, and played on Tour Pro Mode.

                    Comment

                    • rmacteague
                      Rookie
                      • Nov 2002
                      • 210

                      #11
                      Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                      I hear you, there never is going to be a system where someone who has a job or other life responsibilities can compete with kids who play 12 hours a day. Nothing wrong with them doing that I just have no desire to compete in a video game that way.

                      I certainly still want them to have major tournaments open to everyone who wishes to compete with a capped power level and one try. I would compete to see where I finished and be fine with that.

                      I just don't feel that all tournaments that use tour mode settings should be supplied for the elite players. Just like out at a real golf club I wouldn't join the A league if my handicap wasn't up to snuff. It's not fun for anyone.

                      Comment

                      • rmacteague
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2002
                        • 210

                        #12
                        Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                        Originally posted by Zalf
                        I agree that the Top 5% or so are what creates the problem for a majority of us. You have a handful 10-15 strokes ahead of everyone and then it really bunches up. You have to address why there is such a gap. It seems that one of the reasons is people play the rounds over and over again to chart out exact conditions and locations. One try tournaments will help that if disconnects are handled properly.

                        Another thing I am starting to wonder about is green chipping. I saw a post by one of the top scorers on how he did repeat a round several times trying to beat the low score "without green chipping" and couldn't do it. The thread was about repeating rounds so this statement stood out to me as one of the things that might be creating that 10-15 stroke gap. I have never been good at chipping in TW so I never use it even off of the green. Does anyone know how much easier a 30 ft green chip than a 30 ft putt on l. fast greens? I know the putt can be very difficult to just get close. If green chipping is significantly easier and people are making a lot of those then that could be a big part of the difference. I know certain shot types are locked out from certain lies so if green chips are tipping the scale then locking out chip shots on greens might really help. Yes there are situations where pros chip on the green but those are EXTREMELY rare. I would be willing to sacrifice that one technical rule if it means bringing that top 5% back towards the rest of the pack.

                        Zalf,

                        They need to eliminate green chipping, you are right there is threads on the EA Boards where some of the top scorers admit to using it to get there -18 scores. Elimination of this should have already been done as it is a known exploit or at least make it a setting in tour mode to dissalow the practice.

                        One try's, attribute caps will all help but I think you will see that most of the top names still remain there. I still want major tournies open to all with one try.

                        I know for me personally I will never be able to compete with the upper 20% nor have the desire to. I have a job, wife and twins on the way. More and more gamers are fitting this mode and it's about time game companies start providing arenas for more mature gamers to compete in. We don't care about exploits, being #1, etc... Just want a fun competitive atmoshpere against similar skilled players as an option.

                        Comment

                        • Zalf
                          Pro
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 552

                          #13
                          Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                          Originally posted by rmacteague
                          Zalf,

                          They need to eliminate green chipping, you are right there is threads on the EA Boards where some of the top scorers admit to using it to get there -18 scores. Elimination of this should have already been done as it is a known exploit or at least make it a setting in tour mode to dissalow the practice.

                          One try's, attribute caps will all help but I think you will see that most of the top names still remain there. I still want major tournies open to all with one try.

                          I know for me personally I will never be able to compete with the upper 20% nor have the desire to. I have a job, wife and twins on the way. More and more gamers are fitting this mode and it's about time game companies start providing arenas for more mature gamers to compete in. We don't care about exploits, being #1, etc... Just want a fun competitive atmoshpere against similar skilled players as an option.
                          I agree. That is why I didn't really worry about it last year. One tournament a week on Tour Pro and there were so many issues with scoring on that one I didn't really bother. This year though you have the elite group which I think is lower than 5% of the total even and then everyone else within 5 or so strokes of each other. So find a way to either bring that 5% in or split them out and we will really have something.

                          It wouldn't even bother me if the Top 5% was 2-3 strokes better instead of 10-15. I can have a really good round and make up 2-3 strokes. I will never(and have no desire to) be 10-15 strokes better than I am right now.

                          Comment

                          • Drakar
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2005
                            • 310

                            #14
                            Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                            You know they will always be people glitching their way. For the longest time on the pc version of links, people were using rulers to swing straight shot with their mouse. In the X360 MotoGP, some racers where using elastic on the stick to force the riders to always be in the most aerodynamic position.

                            This is my suggestion for a better golf sim :

                            - Green chipping should be removed completely,
                            - created golfers only
                            - gear boost attributes removed.
                            - they should remove the zoom function when you place your target area circle.
                            - Removed putting grid and replace with a on the ground level camera that you can move in 4 position : behind/front/east/west side of the hole. They could call it the "Villegas camera".
                            - elevation indicator when you place your target zone should be removed. This should also be calculated approximately by the player. In tournament play, rangefinder with slope calculation are considered illegal.
                            - Dual stick swinging ( left stick : up/down - right stick : left/right). Timing would be crucial to hit a straight shot.
                            - In real golf, when you are on the fairway, you can end up in someone else divot or different lie. the fairway is not perfect. In TW it always is.
                            - In career play, start with a lower end caddy, that might give you less accurate yardage.

                            The list can go on and on.

                            Comment

                            • Zalf
                              Pro
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 552

                              #15
                              Re: A real solutions to Online Tournament

                              Originally posted by Drakar
                              - In real golf, when you are on the fairway, you can end up in someone else divot or different lie. the fairway is not perfect. In TW it always is.
                              I rarely see a 100% lie in the fairway. Longer irons and woods can get as low as 95% in the fairway. Has to do with the club and not divots but I am afraid of what we would get with TW's current ball physics and a landing area with divots all around. Heck we still get par 4 and 5 tee boxes with divots everywhere!

                              Comment

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