Tiger Woods Developer Forum

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

Look, in a sports game, AI is one of the most important aspects of the gameplay. TW10 isn't just bad, it's pathetic. The only thing worse than their AI, is their online play. So yeah, you tell me how they deserve another $60 for that. Oh wait,, that's almost $120 with all their ripoff extra courses and nickel-and-dime "unlockables"...which I won't even go into, lest my keyboard should go on fire.

I see your post on the EA forums and as I suspected it generated very few responses. Why? TW is mainly an online game. Doesn't excuse them from making the offline AI play right, but it has not been easy for them to please some users. Last year's AI would have been perfect for YOU in TW10. I won every tournament I entered in TW09 and started to in TW10, so can you see the AI dilemma? How do they tune it to an individual's taste? Are "sliders" the answer? I don't know, but I hope they do improve options for offline users in 11 to give users what they want. As robust as TW10 online play is, for the first time in years, I have NO use for offline season mode....

[reddawg60]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

I see your post on the EA forums and as I suspected it generated very few responses. Why? TW is mainly an online game. Doesn't excuse them from making the offline AI play right, but it has not been easy for them to please some users. Last year's AI would have been perfect for YOU in TW10. I won every tournament I entered in TW09 and started to in TW10, so can you see the AI dilemma? How do they tune it to an individual's taste? Are "sliders" the answer? I don't know, but I hope they do improve options for offline users in 11 to give users what they want. As robust as TW10 online play is, for the first time in years, I have NO use for offline season mode....

nahhh, thanks for the encouragement but after this many years and the same silliness im pretty much done with ea golf games.

glad you guys are enjoying it but i about agree 100A% with kernel pie !!

the basics arent even in this game and if its that much geared towards online maybe the title ought to be tw online, im just saying...

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

the basics arent even in this game and if its that much geared towards online maybe the title ought to be tw online, im just saying...

What basics?

The game is geared towards online play, but that does not mean that EA could not improve offline play. This attitude that EA will never change is understandable from the years of "pretty much the same thing year in and year out", but then again, NEVER have I see EA reach out to the community for feedback and dialogue this early in the Development process (for TW11) or at ANY time. So if that is your attitude, I can't blame you, but then again, the TW Dev Team is FAR more interested in community feedback and dialogue than ANY TW Dev Team I have been around and that goes all the way back to PGA TOUR Gold for the PC in 1996.....here is a real chance for you to have a say in how the game plays next year. Your choice....

[reddawg60]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

What basics?

The game is geared towards online play, but that does not mean that EA could not improve offline play. This attitude that EA will never change is understandable from the years of "pretty much the same thing year in and year out", but then again, NEVER have I see EA reach out to the community for feedback and dialogue this early in the Development process (for TW11) or at ANY time. So if that is your attitude, I can't blame you, but then again, the TW Dev Team is FAR more interested in community feedback and dialogue than ANY TW Dev Team I have been around and that goes all the way back to PGA TOUR Gold for the PC in 1996.....here is a real chance for you to have a say in how the game plays next year. Your choice....

yup in the end its my choice....to little to late for me to put in much effort or excitement at this point.
Its good to hear that you feel theres a shift in the way they are now going to listen to the community, hope its real this time.
good luck, and thanks for the input and info.

[dave374]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

I see your post on the EA forums and as I suspected it generated very few responses. Why? TW is mainly an online game. Doesn't excuse them from making the offline AI play right, but it has not been easy for them to please some users. Last year's AI would have been perfect for YOU in TW10. I won every tournament I entered in TW09 and started to in TW10, so can you see the AI dilemma? How do they tune it to an individual's taste? Are "sliders" the answer? I don't know, but I hope they do improve options for offline users in 11 to give users what they want. As robust as TW10 online play is, for the first time in years, I have NO use for offline season mode....

That's a load of .....

This line would get me in trouble at OS.

My guess is 80% of TW players never play online.

This is why community guys are never taken seriously. The second they get invited to the place, they can never be taken seriously again. They're too concerned with getting invited back.

TW10 is not a "robust" online game. It's an online game where -60 is the norm.

You, my friend, are disappointing as a community rep. Yes, I love Tiger, but the average Tiger player could never, ever enjoy Tiger online ... because it is not the standard - it's for cheating freaks.

I defy you to show me the stats that show TW is "mainly an online game".

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

That's a load of .....

This line would get me in trouble at OS.

Taking yet more personal potshots at me?

My guess is 80% of TW players never play online.

Your GUESS? You don't know for sure, so you try to discredit someone who DOES play the game online. Wonderful approach there, dave.

This is why community guys are never taken seriously. The second they get invited to the place, they can never be taken seriously again. They're too concerned with getting invited back.

Again, making misinformed accusations.

How about we inject some facts here real quickly before you have a chance to spew more misinformation...

I have been EA's Tiger Woods forum moderator for about 10 years. I have also been involved with EA"s PC Golf games since PGA TOUR 486. Beta testing and contract development work. I have also been the TW Community Leader since 2000. I am NOT WORRIED ABOUT GETTING INVITED TO TW COMMUNITY DAY. I have an open invitation to attend EVERY YEAR. So please, spare me with your misinformed accusations.

TW10 is not a "robust" online game. It's an online game where -60 is the norm.

It IS a robust game when you consider the features that TW10 has over TW09 online.

You, my friend, are disappointing as a community rep. Yes, I love Tiger, but the average Tiger player could never, ever enjoy Tiger online ... because it is not the standard - it's for cheating freaks.

Since you have PM'd me and personally attacked me here on these forums, I frankly am not concerned with what you think of me since you have proven to be confrontational and abusive in your forum privileges. It is a shame that you fly off the handle with accusations that you cannot possibly prove. So be it.

As far as cheating online, the ONLY cheating online is when users have TWO 360's and TWO XBox Live accounts. Same goes for the PS3 with multiple PSN usernames. Show me ANY online game on either console that does not have the same issues.

I defy you to show me the stats that show TW is "mainly an online game".

Since I play online and you do not, the burden of evidence is upon you.

[baa7]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

As far as cheating online, the ONLY cheating online is when users have TWO 360's and TWO XBox Live accounts. Same goes for the PS3 with multiple PSN usernames. Show me ANY online game on either console that does not have the same issues.

I think Dave's point here is that online scoring is ridiculously unrealistic. So 'cheating' isn't really the correct word. Maybe 'cheesy' is better. I don't play online so I don't understand how people online are regularily shooting the sort of crazy-low scores I'm hearing they do. But that would be the real issue here I think: that elements of the game or gameplay are providing gamers with the opportunity to shoot those scores. And given it's still happening and hasn't been corrected, one could say the online component as it is now isn't robust -- rather, it's a joke and a waste of time for serious cyber golfers.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

Maybe 'cheesy' is better. I don't play online so I don't understand how people online are regularily shooting the sort of crazy-low scores I'm hearing they do.

Agreed. Users shooting these scores are waiting for the Live Weather winds to be 0 or 1 (playing at night time of the course being played) and they are mapping out every hole to make multiple holeouts. The gameplay needs to be addressed to bring some sort of skill/randomness into the shot results, Holeouts from the fairway should occur once every 20-30 rounds, not 9 or 10 PER round which is how users are scoring these low scores.

But that would be the real issue here I think: that elements of the game or gameplay are providing gamers with the opportunity to shoot those scores.

Hence the reason for the TW Developer Forum. EA realizes users want a more realistic game, gameplay and scoring.

And given it's still happening and hasn't been corrected, one could say the online component as it is now isn't robust -- rather, it's a joke and a waste of time for serious cyber golfers.

The features over 09 ARE robust. The scoring is a joke, I agree with that.

[dave374]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

The features over 09 ARE robust. The scoring is a joke, I agree with that.

I don't disagree that the features are solid, but it kills me not to have user created, invitation-only tourneys ... or have the ability to use my DLC courses in my offline career.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

I am well aware of this and I agree with you...post your comments in the Developer forum if you want EA to see what you are thinking. Posting here does nothing for you nor the game.

[baa7]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

it kills me not to have user created, invitation-only tourneys.

Really? That's not an option online? Wow, that's kind of bizarre. From the sounds of it, the last thing a legit player would want to do is play in those EA tourneys where people shoot in the 40's. Doesn't leave many (any?) options for sim golfers.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

Really? That's not an option online? Wow, that's kind of bizarre. From the sounds of it, the last thing a legit player would want to do is play in those EA tourneys where people shoot in the 40's. Doesn't leave many (any?) options for sim golfers.

A feature that has never been in a TW console version....however, it would be a nice feature to have.

[baa7]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

A feature that has never been in a TW console version....however, it would be a nice feature to have.

Just saying that given these EA tourneys are pure cheese and have been for years from the sounds of it, I find it rather bizarre that the problem has never been addressed. Either fix the issues with the tourney cheesing, or create a separate online gaming option for serious golfers. Again, the online component doesn't sound robust at all. The words that come to mind are here are dysfunctional and negligence.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

Just saying that given these EA tourneys are pure cheese and have been for years from the sounds of it, I find it rather bizarre that the problem has never been addressed. Either fix the issues with the tourney cheesing, or create a separate online gaming option for serious golfers. Again, the online component doesn't sound robust at all. The words that come to mind are here are dysfunctional and negligence.

I hope you understand that I am not disagreeing about the scoring and cheesing going on with the online tournaments. EA is VERY aware of this and this is a major reason for the Developer forum to get community feedback on what THEY would like to see from a gameplay difficulty and scoring perspective.

However I will continue to disagree regarding the "robust" statement as it pertains to features.

Comparison of TW09 to TW10 Online Features:

TW09:

• Daily Tournaments (with the exception of TOUR Mode Thursday, most of these were Default difficulty tournaments).
• Multiplayer online.

TW10:

• Daily Tournaments
  • Beginner through TOUR Pro Mode
  • Tiered Daily Tournaments (Tiers 1-10)
  • Extreme Tournaments for hardcore users
  
  
• Weekly Tournaments
  • Four round tournaments in both Amateur and TOUR Pro modes
  
  
• Play the Pros Tournaments
  • Weekly tournaments for both Amateur and TOUR Pro
  
  
• Online Season Tournaments
  • Four week seasons with weekly four-round tournaments for Amateur and TOUR Pro modes
  
  
• Upper Deck Challenge Tournaments
  • Usually coincide with a Play the Pros event with some prizes given to the winners in both Amateur and TOUR Pro modes
  
  
• Community Appreciation Tournament - ongoing now
  • Round robin tournament to determine the best Community Team to face the TW Development Team in an online Tournament
  
  
• Multiplayer Online
• DLC courses used in online tournaments and Play the Pros

That is what I am referring to as "robust" from a feature perspective. This is why I no longer spend anytime with the offline season mode that I pretty much played exclusively in TW08/09. No argument whatsoever about the scoring issues and cheesing that is going on.

[reddawg60]

Re: Tiger Woods Developer Forum

Taking yet more personal potshots at me?



Your GUESS? You don't know for sure, so you try to discredit someone who DOES play the game online. Wonderful approach there, dave.



Again, making misinformed accusations.

How about we inject some facts here real quickly before you have a chance to spew more misinformation...

I have been EA's Tiger Woods forum moderator for about 10 years. I have also been involved with EA"s PC Golf games since PGA TOUR 486. Beta testing and contract development work. I have also been the TW Community Leader since 2000. I am NOT WORRIED ABOUT GETTING INVITED TO TW COMMUNITY DAY. I have an open invitation to attend EVERY YEAR. So please, spare me with your misinformed accusations.



It IS a robust game when you consider the features that TW10 has over TW09 online.



Since you have PM'd me and personally attacked me here on these forums, I frankly am not concerned with what you think of me since you have proven to be confrontational and abusive in your forum privileges. It is a shame that you fly off the handle with accusations that you cannot possibly prove. So be it.

As far as cheating online, the ONLY cheating online is when users have TWO 360's and TWO XBox Live accounts. Same goes for the PS3 with multiple PSN usernames. Show me ANY online game on either console that does not have the same issues.



Since I play online and you do not, the burden of evidence is upon you.

No i believe the burden would be on you since i think your the one that made the statement " The game is geared towards online play".