Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

[bigkev]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

What's really the difference?

You aren't swinging real clubs in TGC.

It's got the weird "loft box" and scenarios where somehow you can get more distance than should be possible with a given club. They've also tied in strange shot outcomes with different swing paths & tempo combinations. There are plenty of weird physics issues and shots that don't act like their real world counterparts would.

There's a lot about it "wrong" from a golf simulation standpoint. It's a game, just like others.

A swing meter doesn't make something a game any more than "not having it" makes one a simulator.

Most affordances like swing meters and grids are really about accessibility and using the strange interface of "staring at a 2d screen and using a game controller/mouse".

It's because you're looking at it as a real life golfer, not a golf gamer.

A guy like my brother is not a golfer, he hates real life golf. He doesn't have the patience for it, I can count on one hand the rounds of golf he has played in his life. On the other end, he just loves golf game, has played them since forever. His idea of a golf game is to hit it over 300 yards, play rounds of -25 and better, and he gets angry when he missed a putt.

TGC is not a game for him, it's too much like real life golf. And you probably have hundreds of thousands like him, just looking how populated the Arcade/Amateur mode was in the old TW games. You could see rounds of -30 all the time.

And for those looking for a real feeling of a golf sim, they're definitely out there. For some, it will never be hard enough. They want a sim where they can hack the ball around and feeling a sense of accomplishment when they break 90 like they do in real life. I'm just not sure how many of those a company can sell.

[scagwi]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

TGC is not a game for him, it's too much like real life golf.

I just don't know if I agree with that.

TGC is pretty darned easy/arcade on the easiest clubs and there are all sorts of things in the game "not like real golf" or doing things differently than real golf even.

I think you have a higher opinion of TGC in terms of being a "golf simulation" than I do.

[lions67]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Well whatever. The game is the game and it plays fantastic! Even with its flaws.
But it certainly does not need to be easier.

[bigkev]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

I just don't know if I agree with that.

TGC is pretty darned easy/arcade on the easiest clubs and there are all sorts of things in the game "not like real golf" or doing things differently than real golf even.

I think you have a higher opinion of TGC in terms of being a "golf simulation" than I do.

Anyway... TGC is too much like real life golf for those liking a golf game i.e. arcade. That's why TGC is selling something like 150,000 copies and getting the reviews they're getting from those guys aka as 'golf sucks, it's too hard'.

And it's never sim enough for those looking for a real sim, so the copies sold will go down in a hurry for those being fed up as seen on the HB forum. A lot of them over there don't even care about golf, they're more interested in building courses and are complaining they're not getting enough tools to build them. So HB won't be developing their golf sim or game, whatever you want to call it, for much longer, I'm giving them 2 more tries at the most and they're out too. Just like EA, the market for golf is way too fussy for the few sales compared to other games selling millions.

[scagwi]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

@bigkev

Do you think they’re making another one or they are done?

I agree with you about the HB forum also.

Your point about the golf game market I think is also spot on. It’s a really tough niche and a game is best choosing super realistic or arcade and going hard in the chosen direction. Languishing in the middle pleases neither audience.

[bigkev]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Oh there's another one coming, no doubt. The way they're talking, they're working very hard right now. There's no new patch, so it's a new game.

It was a dog's breakfast the way the last one was marketed, so I expect it will be a one voice message for the next one with 2K doing almost all of it. When will it be released? I don't know. They probably don't either at this point. I presume it's going to have a much better career mode with at least a dozen official TPC courses. They will try to give everybody a little bit, meaning courses designers, multi-player, society and I have no idea how they're going to improve the sim part like swing mechanic, etc

They're in a tough spot. They want multi-player and not selling enough games, specially on PC. Having all 3 clubs set competing against each others is not working the way they're doing it. If they're going difficulty level, it's going to be too hard for some to find a game on PC. Lots of guys on PC are mainly doing course designers to start with because it's easier than on console.

And to top it of, it seems that their PGA license is very restricted on how they used the TPC courses. Got a feeling a lot of old timers couldn't care less about the PGA license at this point, I've read that several times. The course designers in the game are that good, they would just prefer to take these courses and include them in their career mode.

[scagwi]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

@bigkev

Good stuff - good thoughts.
I know I’m probably in the minority, but I sort of hope they go back to the drawing board a bit with the swing.

Partial power, overswing and a reimagination of shot setup in terms of stance, addressing the ball, etc - to me would all be really smart.

I really don’t want the loft box to be “a thing” anymore - or at least I’d like it to be far less impactful and somewhat less required. I just don’t love it as an interface concept vs some things other golf games have done over the years to get at the same ideas.

I honestly loved the shot setup stuff in TW14 for the most part.

[ncp10]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Well whatever. The game is the game and it plays fantastic! Even with its flaws.
But it certainly does not need to be easier.

We play no putting grid and find the game w/ its swing flaws is phenomenal. We had such an incredible match today on Magnolia Tour and it just amazes me how realistic outcomes are for us in this game. There are a few quirky things with the swing but the really important aspect is there: game outcomes are very believable for us playing Master Clubs w/ no green grid. All of the really well done courses are wonderful to get to play. So hard to get it all right if they come out with a new version I hope they don't kill the playability part. I'd like to see ability to buy branded equipment w/ different characteristics.

[lions67]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

We play no putting grid and find the game w/ its swing flaws is phenomenal. We had such an incredible match today on Magnolia Tour and it just amazes me how realistic outcomes are for us in this game. There are a few quirky things with the swing but the really important aspect is there: game outcomes are very believable for us playing Master Clubs w/ no green grid. All of the really well done courses are wonderful to get to play. So hard to get it all right if they come out with a new version I hope they don't kill the playability part. I'd like to see ability to buy branded equipment w/ different characteristics.

Hats off to you guys that can play without the grids.
I can’t do that. I have tried, but no chance. Especially on Magnolia! Haha

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

We play no putting grid and find the game w/ its swing flaws is phenomenal. We had such an incredible match today on Magnolia Tour and it just amazes me how realistic outcomes are for us in this game. There are a few quirky things with the swing but the really important aspect is there: game outcomes are very believable for us playing Master Clubs w/ no green grid. All of the really well done courses are wonderful to get to play. So hard to get it all right if they come out with a new version I hope they don't kill the playability part. I'd like to see ability to buy branded equipment w/ different characteristics.

I have both envy and respect for those of you who can play this way. I've tried it and I lack the patience and the skill required to do it competitively. When it works for me, it works well and I see the hidden joy of playing this way. I played through a season using it in the 4 Letter Word Society on XBox One, and never really could overcome my lack of patience in reading the slopes.

My abilities with this game continue to decline, as I'm now playing with Pro clubs and full assists, yet still struggling to break 70, a lot of times. I was playing a relatively easy course yesterday in the Casuals Golf Society, with Pro clubs and medium wind. I shot a 70, which included four 3-putt greens (with grids on, mind you!) and two balls in the water, resulting from pulls.

I should be pissed off with the game in view of my recent slide, but I find that I'm liking it more, because it's making me play a lot of different shots. Even though I'm royally sucking in the scoring department, I'm having as much fun with it as ever!?

[scagwi]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Even though I'm royally sucking in the scoring department, I'm having as much fun with it as ever!?

Glutton for punishment it would seem.

hah - being more serious though..

It sort of sounds like many diehards in TGC and PG land don't really need any new versions as many (maybe most?) of them love their games more and more "as is".

If you love either game as they are, you play them and you're happy.

I just wonder what the rest of the mainstream might think (or if they've moved on already).
Maybe this is why neither is getting much attention anymore - and why EA quit..

Hard place to make money over time and small niche audiences to begin with.

[lions67]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Glutton for punishment it would seem.

hah - being more serious though..

It sort of sounds like many diehards in TGC and PG land don't really need any new versions as many (maybe most?) of them love their games more and more "as is".

If you love either game as they are, you play them and you're happy.

I just wonder what the rest of the mainstream might think (or if they've moved on already).
Maybe this is why neither is getting much attention anymore - and why EA quit..

Hard place to make money over time and small niche audiences to begin with.

There is a “mainstream” in the golf game community?? 😜

I think people need to relax with this will there or won’t there be a new golf game.
If it comes ( and I believe it will, maybe next year ) great! But the game plays just fine as it is.
Scagwi... you are on tour are you not?
Tgctours is awesome!

[scagwi]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

Scagwi... you are on tour are you not?

I'm honestly a Perfect Golf guy actually.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

It sort of sounds like many diehards in TGC and PG land don't really need any new versions as many (maybe most?) of them love their games more and more "as is".

If you love either game as they are, you play them and you're happy.

I don't particularly 'love' either game, but I like them both. I mostly go with TGC 2019 because I like its more tightly integrated golfer animations more, and its versatility with the Society function. I recognize that there are so many areas where the game could be a lot better, and more of a visceral experience, and that's what keeps me from 'loving' it.

If TGC 2019 didn't exist, I'd be contently playing JNPG full time, but longing for mo-capped golfer animations and a built in facility for 3D grass that was a little more versatile and integrated into the course designer.

If either game was brought to the level of play I think they're each capable of, I shudder to think about how much more of my time and interest would be invested in them! It would probably mean an end to my marriage

I just wonder what the rest of the mainstream might think (or if they've moved on already).
Maybe this is why neither is getting much attention anymore - and why EA quit..

Hard place to make money over time and small niche audiences to begin with.

We don't have a game for the mainstream anymore. Winning Putt, Shot Online, WGT have all withered away to non existence or insignificance. Everybody's Golf seems to have fallen off massively in popularity. I hate to say it, but "Golf With Your Friends", which is a horribly arcadey mini-golf-esque game is probably the most massively appealing golf *game* going right now

[bigkev]

Re: Beat the Heat With These Courses in TGC 2019

I hate to say it, but "Golf With Your Friends", which is a horribly arcadey mini-golf-esque game is probably the most massively appealing golf *game* going right now

Ouch... and it looks like you're totally right too. Never would have guessed that one, but it sure looks like it.