PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

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Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Oh god, this is just about the worst thing that I have heard (within the very parochial confines of golf video games, obviously). That absolutely breaks my heart to hear, given how good I think the original Links on Xbox was - and still is! How good would an X360 version of the game have been? Honestly, it may have changed the whole landscape of golf video games, if Links became to golf what NBA2K did to basketball (and just buried the EA product or forced it to be much, much better than what it was).

Oh well. Just another horrible development in the long, sad, recent history of sports gaming. We've never been worse off, across sports, than we are right now (sadly).

I still can't get over how cavalierly Take 2 disposed of those valuable assets!? They didn't realize the value of what they had! I wish I had saved the e-mails I had with Daryl Welsh discussing Links 2007... he was really proud of what his former team had accomplished with it. Yet we never got to see even a screen shot of it... although that might make the pain even worse!

Your point about how it *could* have escalated the race with the Tiger Woods series, and potentially have become the NBA 2K of golf is so valid that it raises my remorse over it to a new, unprecedented level..... ARRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

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Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Oh well. Just another horrible development in the long, sad, recent history of sports gaming. We've never been worse off, across sports, than we are right now (sadly).

The best testimonial I can offer to your point here is this... I get more enjoyment out of playing NCAA Football 2004 on my PS2, than I do playing Madden NFL 20 on my XBox One X!?

[pietasterp]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

The best testimonial I can offer to your point here is this... I get more enjoyment out of playing NCAA Football 2004 on my PS2, than I do playing Madden NFL 20 on my XBox One X!?

I absolutely do as well (albeit w/ NCAA14 on X360). And oddly, the read-option/zone-read is better implemented in NCAA14 on X360 than in the most recent Madden game.

Semi-seriously, I wonder if we offered to just come up to the offices and sift through the boxes, if they'd hand over the Links 2007 assets for a nominal fee. That's idiotic and fanciful thinking, but it's desperate times in the golf gaming landscape...

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

The best testimonial I can offer to your point here is this... I get more enjoyment out of playing NCAA Football 2004 on my PS2, than I do playing Madden NFL 20 on my XBox One X!?

I think most people feel that way. It's no surprise that, as competition goes out the window and complacency takes hold, subpar products get released. That's why these are the games in my rotation right now:

-NCAA Football 14 (X360)
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14 (X360) and TGC 2019 (only for course design, PS4)
-2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa (X360)

I think NBA 2K20 might enter my rotation once it's released on July 7 as one of the PS Plus free games for the month.

And it also explains why the team making PGA Tour 2K21 can essentially do whatever kind of marketing, upgrades, enhancements, etc. it wants. I mean, we aren't getting a new golf "sim" anywhere else soon, are we?

[scagwi]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

I think most people feel that way. It's no surprise that, as competition goes out the window and complacency takes hold, subpar products get released. That's why these are the games in my rotation right now:

-NCAA Football 14 (X360)
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14 (X360) and TGC 2019 (only for course design, PS4)
-2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa (X360)

I think NBA 2K20 might enter my rotation once it's released on July 7 as one of the PS Plus free games for the month.

And it also explains why the team making PGA Tour 2K21 can essentially do whatever kind of marketing, upgrades, enhancements, etc. it wants. I mean, we aren't getting a new golf "sim" anywhere else soon, are we?

Interesting - I'm similarly engaged..

I play NHL Legacy (essentially the same for NHL 14, NHL 15 and Legacy), NCAA 2014 and TW 14

Things seem to have peaked for me in that generation of things..

[pietasterp]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Agree on all counts above (to a "T" with regard to the games being in rotation still), and even NCAA14 is only in the rotation because it was the last one released. EA is amazingly obtuse in that they take OUT features that used to exist in prior games for reasons that no one can adequately explain. For example, the most recent Madden has no option to slow the game speed down (I like to play NCAA14 on "very slow" because it seems like a more realistic pace to me). Why? Who knows? What am I going to do if I don't like it?

Links on XBox wasn't perfect by any means, but as far as console golf went, it was as good as it got. The swing interface was really good (probably better IMO than anything even to this day). I actually still have my physical copy (yea for physical copies of games!) with Sergio Garcia on the cover. It is backward-compatible on the X360, which is why it will remain in my collection, likely forever.

Now I really wonder what even a screenshot of the X360 game would have looked like....

[bigkev]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Honestly, it may have changed the whole landscape of golf video games, if Links became to golf what NBA2K did to basketball (and just buried the EA product or forced it to be much, much better than what it was).

To be honest, I don't think it would have changed much things at EA. The holy grail was always the Masters with Augusta and the 3 other Majors. EA did eventually get all that. It wouldn't even surprise me if EA ever make another golf game, it's because they were able to get Augusta again. It was a riot on all social media when simmmers found out Augusta wasn't in the game. It was post after post of customers stating they were not going to buy the game without Augusta.

[pietasterp]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

To be honest, I don't think it would have changed much things at EA. The holy grail was always the Masters with Augusta and the 3 other Majors. EA did eventually get all that. It wouldn't even surprise me if EA ever make another golf game, it's because they were able to get Augusta again. It was a riot on all social media when simmmers found out Augusta wasn't in the game. It was post after post of customers stating they were not going to buy the game without Augusta.

Maybe. But I think, bigger picture, the question is would their product have been fundamentally different or more advanced if there was another game either nipping at their heels or overtaking them completely, as NBA2K did to NBA Live. As someone that bought the very first NBA2K on Sega Dreamcast way back in the day, I had no idea basketball games could be that good until I got NBA2K. Whatever you might think of it today, back then, it was so superior to what everyone assumed was the best/only basketball game around (NBA Live), it absolutely changed what people expected out of their sports games. Ditto NFL2K, which clearly forced Madden to up its game before they decided to eliminate the competition altogether.

Clearly I'm extrapolating what might have happened in a far more niche sport like golf, but the point is that we'll never know what might have happened if another legitimate golf franchise with an entrenched/built-in fanbase (like myself) had been around during the entirety of the Tiger Woods era games. Whatever the case may have been, even if EA's product would have been no different (which I find hard to believe), at least there would have been a legitimate alternative that played a very different brand of golf than EA's offering.

[scagwi]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Just to add onto the above..

EA has proven time and again that when they are in a space with no competition, they end up getting lazy and the products stagnate.

I'd argue that the NHL games are a prime example of that. Some would argue Madden is also.

Anyone ever go look at videos of All Pro Football 2k8?

It's incredible to see the detail that went into that. Many would say Madden hasn't matched huge parts of it, 13 years later.

[pietasterp]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Just to add onto the above..

EA has proven time and again that when they are in a space with no competition, they end up getting lazy and the products stagnate.

I'd argue that the NHL games are a prime example of that. Some would argue Madden is also.

Anyone ever go look at videos of All Pro Football 2k8?

It's incredible to see the detail that went into that. Many would say Madden hasn't matched huge parts of it, 13 years later.

No question. There are still competitive eleagues for APF2K8, and watching them on TV, those games still somehow look more like real football than Madden20.

NHL has also gone downhill - was disappointed when 2K dropped out of making hockey games, because I liked their offerings a lot more.

Re: PGA2K21, I wonder what 2K needs to see in terms of sales to justify continued investment in the franchise? These things tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies in my experience. They invest next-to-nothing into the franchise, so it predictably doesn't do gangbusters sales, so they interpret that as a sign that they shouldn't invest more into the franchise....long story short we're back to no major publisher of golf next gen.

[bigkev]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Maybe. But I think, bigger picture, the question is would their product have been fundamentally different or more advanced if there was another game either nipping at their heels or overtaking them completely, as NBA2K did to NBA Live.

Clearly I'm extrapolating what might have happened in a far more niche sport like golf, but the point is that we'll never know what might have happened if another legitimate golf franchise with an entrenched/built-in fanbase (like myself) had been around during the entirety of the Tiger Woods era games.

Yeah, niche sport like golf is the key here. It could very well have been like EA quitting on golf like they did after Rory because there was not enough return for investment with a rival game. Maybe never seen a game with Augusta and the 3 other Majors and instead of being nickel and dime by EA, it would have been by 2K. And MAYBE 2K would have quit too by now, and we would be stuck with HB and their low budget attempt because well... only the cartoon arcade golf games are selling these days. And some on mobile to make it even worst.

Man, that's very depressing.

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Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

I absolutely do as well (albeit w/ NCAA14 on X360). And oddly, the read-option/zone-read is better implemented in NCAA14 on X360 than in the most recent Madden game.

Semi-seriously, I wonder if we offered to just come up to the offices and sift through the boxes, if they'd hand over the Links 2007 assets for a nominal fee. That's idiotic and fanciful thinking, but it's desperate times in the golf gaming landscape...

Yeah, truth be known, I prefer NCAA 2014 on the 360 to 2004 on the PS2. 2014 continues to amaze me! I still prefer NCAA 2004 PS2, over Madden 20 on the XBox One X though, just to take this comparison to its extremes.

While I'm at it... NBA Inside Drive 2004 on the original XBox was second only to NBA 2K11 as my favorite basketball game of all time. College Hoops 2K8 isn't far behind.

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Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Links on XBox wasn't perfect by any means, but as far as console golf went, it was as good as it got. The swing interface was really good (probably better IMO than anything even to this day).

IMO, Links 2004 had the best full swing interface I've ever experienced. It's the only one that made a sensible connection between the rhythm of your swing and the shot result. I may have gotten 100% only 10 to 15% of the time on a full swing, but it felt so sweet when I did. It's chipping and putting game could have used some work, but it was a great start.

Now I really wonder what even a screenshot of the X360 game would have looked like....

Links 2004 already looked like an advanced XBox 360 game on the original XBox; I can't imagine what it would have looked like on the 360! I'd probably toss my cookies over it though!

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Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Anyone ever go look at videos of All Pro Football 2k8?

It's incredible to see the detail that went into that. Many would say Madden hasn't matched huge parts of it, 13 years later.

I have it and still play it on occasion. It is light years better than Madden 20 in terms of control and gameplay.

[pietasterp]

Re: PGA TOUR 2K21 Gameplay Video (IGN)

Yeah, truth be known, I prefer NCAA 2014 on the 360 to 2004 on the PS2. 2014 continues to amaze me! I still prefer NCAA 2004 PS2, over Madden 20 on the XBox One X though, just to take this comparison to its extremes.

While I'm at it... NBA Inside Drive 2004 on the original XBox was second only to NBA 2K11 as my favorite basketball game of all time. College Hoops 2K8 isn't far behind.

I've played more College Hoops 2K8 than any other basketball game ever produced, with the possible exception of NBA Jam. While we're on the topic of being PO'd about the state of sports gaming, if there were a college basketball game with the graphics of the modern gen systems, even if it were a half-step behind the NBA product (which the college products tended to be), it would still be the best basketball game ever made. Heck, the exact gameplay from College Hoops 2K8 with updated graphics would be enough - that game was so good. I hate that we don't have a modern college hoops game. In fact, an entire console generation passed with no college sports games. What a disgrace.

IMO, Links 2004 had the best full swing interface I've ever experienced. It's the only one that made a sensible connection between the rhythm of your swing and the shot result. I may have gotten 100% only 10 to 15% of the time on a full swing, but it felt so sweet when I did. It's chipping and putting game could have used some work, but it was a great start.



Links 2004 already looked like an advanced XBox 360 game on the original XBox; I can't imagine what it would have looked like on the 360! I'd probably toss my cookies over it though!

Agree that the short game was a little dicey, but the swing interface on XBox felt exactly right, to your point. It was somehow remarkable in its ordinary-ness, in some ways. It seemed like it was just logical and the default way a swing should work with an analog stick in a golf game, but as many years of subsequent titles have shown, it turns out that it isn't that easy to achieve that sort of "it's obvious it should feel like this" quality. I'm not sure how to describe it well (clearly!), but that was what always stuck out to me about the game. Like why doesn't every golf game's swing feel like this?

I have it and still play it on occasion. It is light years better than Madden 20 in terms of control and gameplay.

NFL2K5 is better than Madden20 in gameplay and control. I know that's a very "Operation Sports" thing to say, but I 100% believe that. It's amazing how well they integrated the ESPN license as well, with halftime highlights of other games and Boomer in the studio. I realize most people probably skipped those, but I (for whatever reason) would always watch them and see how the rest of the games in the league were going. I have APF2K8 as well, and it's great, but the lack of a real season or any kind of franchise makes it mostly a game of 1-off game, which it still does exceptionally well.