Any F1 guys here?

[FORMULA316]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Good stuff

[TheEnglishHombre]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Hah! It’s Monday afternoon and I was just thinking of posting such a topic. Been an F1 fan for a long time – Forza Gilles Villeneuve!!!

I have however lost some of my religion all thanks to FIA who never ceases to mess with the regulations. Max Mosley is a deadbeat who may very well split the sport in half one day.

I swear, I only like a sport if it has incompitent leadership. My 3 favorites: College Football, NHL Hockey, and F1. 3 of the biggest groups of idiots the world has ever seen.

At least there wasn't a year long driver strike, I suppose. Only tire manufacturers can get races cancelled in F1.

[FORMULA316]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Well I suppose F1 is like College Football - the champ (Schumi) gets voted in

On the tire situation, I think the current Michelins are on the verge of being legal/illegal. In some cases I think they're illegal but the race stewards are not going to penalise all the Michelin runners. Indy proved (at least to me) that Michelin has a way better, maybe even illegal soft compund tire compared to the Bridgestones.

On many occassions this year Ferrari has been fitted with special Bridgestone tires but it's almost mission impossible to catch up if you're so far behind. I refuse to believe that the Ferrari has suddenly become 'that' slow. Ferrari is the only quality team with the BStones, the others being Jordan and Minardi.

[pk500]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Indy proved (at least to me) that Michelin has a way better, maybe even illegal soft compund tire compared to the Bridgestones.

The problem with the Michelins at Indy had nothing to do with the compound. It had everything to do with the construction.

The tread of the tire was separating from the sidewall due to a bonding issue. The chemical components of the bonding agent in the tire couldn't hold up to the heat and stress generated by Turn 13 at Indy, so the tread was separating from the sidewall right at the spot in the tire in which the most heat and stress was being generated in Turn 13.

Autosport did an extensive analysis of the tire problem at Indy it its print edition right after the USGP, based on interviews with team and Michelin officials.

Take care,
PK

[TheEnglishHombre]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

The problem with the Michelins at Indy had nothing to do with the compound. It had everything to do with the construction.

The tread of the tire was separating from the sidewall due to a bonding issue. The chemical components of the bonding agent in the tire couldn't hold up to the heat and stress generated by Turn 13 at Indy, so the tread was separating from the sidewall right at the spot in the tire in which the most heat and stress was being generated in Turn 13.

Autosport did an extensive analysis of the tire problem at Indy it its print edition right after the USGP, based on interviews with team and Michelin officials.

Take care,
PK

My question then becomes: What changed from last year? Not that I know very much about tires, but the compound that joins the tires doesn't seem like it would have much performance impact; all you would want is reliability. So what was wrong with last year's compound? Was it supposed to give some small performance gain? Or was it supposed to be more reliable and failed?

[pk500]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

My question then becomes: What changed from last year? Not that I know very much about tires, but the compound that joins the tires doesn't seem like it would have much performance impact; all you would want is reliability. So what was wrong with last year's compound? Was it supposed to give some small performance gain? Or was it supposed to be more reliable and failed?

Michelin and Bridgestone can't build tires the way they did last year because tire changes were allowed last year during a race. They're not allowed this year. So the tires are very different in construction and compound.

Both tire companies have messed with bonding agents, compounds and constructions all season in an effort to get maximum grip and the least amount of graining and wear due to the new one-tire rule.

Michelin F1 boss Pierre Dupasquier admitted after the USGP that the company simply cut the margin too close in its tire construction for Indy in an effort to keep an advantage over Bridgestone.

Yes, the track at Indy is no different than it was when Michelin first raced there in 2001. Remember, Michelin didn't re-enter F1 until 2001. And the track really hasn't changed that much since 2003 even though it was repaved and diamond-ground after last season. People forget that the track was diamond-ground in 2003, essentially creating the same surface as the new track with diamond grinding this year.

Bottom line: The banking of the corners at Indy hasn't changed since it was built in 1909. They're still 9 degrees, 12 minutes, as they were in 1909. But the way Michelin and Bridgestone design and build tires is MUCH different than last year due to the new one-tire rule this year.

Take care,
PK

[TheEnglishHombre]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Michelin and Bridgestone can't build tires the way they did last year because tire changes were allowed last year during a race. They're not allowed this year. So the tires are very different in construction and compound.

Both tire companies have messed with bonding agents, compounds and constructions all season in an effort to get maximum grip and the least amount of graining and wear due to the new one-tire rule.

Michelin F1 boss Pierre Dupasquier admitted after the USGP that the company simply cut the margin too close in its tire construction for Indy in an effort to keep an advantage over Bridgestone.

Yes, the track at Indy is no different than it was when Michelin first raced there in 2001. Remember, Michelin didn't re-enter F1 until 2001. And the track really hasn't changed that much since 2003 even though it was repaved and diamond-ground after last season. People forget that the track was diamond-ground in 2003, essentially creating the same surface as the new track with diamond grinding this year.

Bottom line: The banking of the corners at Indy hasn't changed since it was built in 1909. They're still 9 degrees, 12 minutes, as they were in 1909. But the way Michelin and Bridgestone design and build tires is MUCH different than last year due to the new one-tire rule this year.

Take care,
PK

Guess I didn't realize the joining compound made that much difference in tire performance. I figured they would just make the most durable compound possible. I get that they need different tires this year due to the rule changes, but it just seems like the bonding agent would make little to no performance difference in the grand scheme of things, so why risk the tire blowing in the first place? Use the most reliable stuff you can come up with.

Then again, I guess thats why I'm not designing tires for a living.

[pk500]

Re: Any F1 guys here?

Guess I didn't realize the joining compound made that much difference in tire performance. I figured they would just make the most durable compound possible. I get that they need different tires this year due to the rule changes, but it just seems like the bonding agent would make little to no performance difference in the grand scheme of things, so why risk the tire blowing in the first place? Use the most reliable stuff you can come up with.

Then again, I guess thats why I'm not designing tires for a living.

The same bonding agents used for the tires last year probably aren't being used this year because the compounds and constructions are different this year due to the demands of the one-tire rule.

And reliability doesn't always equate to speed. F1 is a results-oriented business based on speed, especially when a supplier has a competitor in the series, so Michelin has to make the fastest tire possible that stays intact. The most durable compound and construction possible wouldn't be the fastest tire. Michelin needs to make a tire that last 77 laps at Indy (qualifying warm-up lap, qualifying lap, qualifying cool-down lap, formation lap, 73 laps of racing) -- and no longer.

Michelin went too far in the search for speed with the construction and bonding of its tires for the USGP.

Take care,
PK