Official NASCAR Series News Thread

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  • brandon27
    MVP
    • Aug 2008
    • 1978

    #46
    Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

    I get the need for the changes. I really do. I'm 35. I started following Nascar when I was about 16 years old. I can honestly say the interest I once had to sit and watch a 3-4 hour race is slim to none right now. I used to go to both Michigan races. Went for about 6 or 7 years straight when I was younger. Now? Little to no interest.


    There's no doubt in my mind that the general Nascar fan has lost interest in the sport. It's not just me, the empty grandstands show that (of course there's other factors affecting that as well). For some of you long timers, and those who are simply just resistant to change. I get the negativity. Some people just don't like change. I wasn't a huge fan of the chase originally either, but I also wasn't a fan of the title race being over before the season was over due to a drivers "consistency".


    That being said, this new change to me... I don't like it on the surface. I get it. I completely understand what they're trying to do. Lets face it, unless you're hardcore into the sport, the best parts of a race for the average fan is the start. Crashes. Restarts. The finish. The 3-4 hour grind through a race has gotten incredibly mind numbing most of the time. Follow the leader, ride around. They've made changes to improve the racing through the years, but it's still lacking in the duration of 3-4 hours. So, how do you fix that? Well, add more starts. More finishes. More incentive for teams to actually RACE, the entire distance of the race. So, I completely get it. I think it might actually work to drive up interest. However I don't see it helping to grow the sport and reach to new fans again. As someone stated earlier, I think it's drivers, and action that does that. Nascar has lacked action for the typical sports fan, so they have to try and generate it.


    The problem I do have is people saying it's manufacturing drama. I get it, it is. However, that's really only the reaction because traditionally Nascar events were 400, or 500 miles straight through. One start. One finish. Now it's three starts. Three finishes. So, it's the drastic change that I think is going to bother people the most. I think it will make a lot of people tune in again, but I don't see it helping bring new fans.


    I would have preferred them really to shorten most races by 100 miles or so, except of course for the premier events. Make the 500 milers special again, not the norm. Shorten it, and cut it into two segments I think would have been the better approach. I used to love the "haltime" break the truck series had when it started. It was nice to have a sprint type race, have a good finish, take a break, let guys stew over what just happened, and adjust a bit, then get back out there and run for the finish.


    This new points system, bonus points, points in each segment, special playoff points. It's just, too much to try and follow. Again, it might re-invigorate some current fans who've lost interest, but still follow, but ultimately, for someone new they're going to go... huh? I'm lost. I'll just check online when it's all done and sorted out on Monday and I'm good.


    I really do hope it does what they intend, and that's to create better racing over the traditional full event distance. Unless you're a diehard fan, living and breathing Nascar, the 3-4 hour long mostly uneventful (at a lot of tracks) race doesn't appeal. There's not enough action. So, I get the intent. I think it will help make the event itself more exciting, because lets face it, there's a lot of races through the year that need that through the middle parts of the race.


    I don't know, I get it, I understand it, I like the idea of it, I don't like the execution of it, I'm just not sure how I feel about it. I'd have preferred if they were going this route, shorten the distance of the non-premier events, split them into two, not three, and finally I'd add this... leave the premier events alone. The thought of the Daytona 500 being run this way... I don't like it. I get it, but I don't like it. I think they can easily change the format for the Hunkydory Doors 400 at Kansas because it really has no tradition, but the Daytona 500?


    Anyways, sorry for the "rant". Just not sure how I feel about these changes. I get it, people want more entertainment value for their time and money, I'm just not sure they should have gone this far, this quickly.
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    • pk500
      All Star
      • Jul 2002
      • 8062

      #47
      Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

      Originally posted by brandon27
      I get the need for the changes. I really do. I'm 35. I started following Nascar when I was about 16 years old. I can honestly say the interest I once had to sit and watch a 3-4 hour race is slim to none right now. I used to go to both Michigan races. Went for about 6 or 7 years straight when I was younger. Now? Little to no interest.
      Guess what? The races will be even LONGER now. The same race distances as in the past, broken up by two intermissions.

      NASCAR had to do something. The sport is withering and losing popularity, big time. But the extended length of races that already are too long is the main point that's lost in these changes.

      The best change would have been to use the World of Outlaws or short-track system with Cup races. Heat races and a consi determine the qualifying order for a shorter main event, all in a two-day event weekend.

      That system honors the format that many longtime NASCAR and short-track fans adore while also reducing the time of the race for younger fans with shorter attention spans. Bingo.
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      • Yrogergj24
        MVP
        • Feb 2011
        • 1102

        #48
        Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

        I like this format, one overlooked positive change is that the bonus points accumulated pre-playoffs carry over through every round of the playoffs.

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        • superjames1992
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jun 2007
          • 31368

          #49
          Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

          Originally posted by Yrogergj24
          I like this format, one overlooked positive change is that the bonus points accumulated pre-playoffs carry over through every round of the playoffs.
          Yeah, that's nice. The current format is definitely entertaining in the final 10 races, but it makes the first 26 races pretty drab and boring (once you get a race win, there's hardly anything to race for aside from just getting wins).

          I am a fan of the traditional points system (i.e. Pre-Chase), and would prefer to see us return to that, but I know that's not going to happen. I hated the original Chase, but sort of liked the more recent Chase itself (it didn't necessarily reward the best driver, but that went out of the window with the Chase's implementation, anyways, and it was at least entertaining).

          I need to read up on this new system to really get a read on it, but I am willing to give it a chance.

          That being said, this does certainly wreak of desperation to me, as well.
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          • Redacted01
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2007
            • 10316

            #50
            Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

            That's why I've never agreed with the chase, especially in it's current form. It really does make the regular season irrelevant because 80+% of the drivers will make it on a win. Some on a highly unlikely win. And even with bonus points, I don't know if it will change significantly how the season plays out. Outside of the plate races, I don't really see guys sandbagging and waiting to race. I will say I don't mind the Chase in it's current format either. But if you keep changing it, I'll give up on it at some point.

            Traditional points is where it was at. NASCAR is like the English Premier League. Everybody races everybody. There is no need for a playoff to undermine what you spent 26, however many races, to determine. It's like the Big XII who wants a title game after you play a round-robin regular season. Great, it makes you money, but now what happens if #1 beat #2 in the regular season and #2 beats #1 in the championship game? You done screwed up.

            In NASCAR, Jimmie Johnson and Denny Hamlin don't race each other only 5 times a year and show the need for a playoff to determine who is better. You race each other every week. Do that 36 times. Whoever comes out ahead more often is the champion. It was that simple. They didn't have to change it to increase the fan base in the 80's and 90's. Obviously you can't prove it, but they'd probably still lose fans in the 00's if they hadn't changed things... or maybe some might have stuck around if they had left it alone. Artificially recreating 1992 every year means you can never make the finish to a season any more exciting than you have it now. What happens when fans keep walking a way?

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            • Turbojugend
              MVP
              • Sep 2013
              • 2242

              #51
              Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

              I'm probably a more casual fan than most, but I like these changes, or at least the way they are being presented by NASCAR. I don't follow point totals, I just want to see great start-to-finish racing.

              Honestly, I'm more concerned with emerging personalities than rules/points changes. Guys like Petty, Allisons, Yarborough, etc. are what initially drew tons of newer fans to the sport back in the day. Then a newer generation (Earnhardt, Waltrip, etc.) came along and did pretty much the same thing, and then another (Gordon, Smoke, etc.). Now many of those guys are have retired or soon will. Who is going to fill these shoes and become the next superstar for a new generation of fans?
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              • pk500
                All Star
                • Jul 2002
                • 8062

                #52
                Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                Originally posted by Turbojugend
                I'm probably a more casual fan than most, but I like these changes, or at least the way they are being presented by NASCAR. I don't follow point totals, I just want to see great start-to-finish racing.
                This may work. But any fan who thinks a driver will throw a car sideways into the final corner to earn "valuable" points from one of the first two segments is nuts. Nobody will risk missing the second or third segment due to a big wreck.

                Originally posted by Turbojugend
                Honestly, I'm more concerned with emerging personalities than rules/points changes. Guys like Petty, Allisons, Yarborough, etc. are what initially drew tons of newer fans to the sport back in the day. Then a newer generation (Earnhardt, Waltrip, etc.) came along and did pretty much the same thing, and then another (Gordon, Smoke, etc.). Now many of those guys are have retired or soon will. Who is going to fill these shoes and become the next superstar for a new generation of fans?
                Good point. And the answer is no one. The personality of drivers has been sanitized from the sport. None of the supposed "young guns" of NASCAR other than Kyle Busch resonates with any fans. Logano, Austin Dillon, Larson, Chase Elliott -- ZZZZZZZZZ.

                NASCAR is facing a superstar crossroads in the next five years. Smoke, Gordon and Edwards already have retired. Johnson, Junior and Harvick all will be gone within five years.

                It's very similar to what happened in IndyCar racing from 1991-94. Rick Mears, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, Danny Sullivan, Al Unser, Tom Sneva, Gordon Johncock and Johnny Rutherford -- all American racing legends and Indy 500 winners -- all retired within that span.

                No question The Split that started in 1996 was a big factor behind the demise of American open-wheel racing. But so was that huge talent drain, a fact no one wants to acknowledge because it doesn't fit the false media and fan narrative that Tony George is the antichrist.
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                • UFCMPunk
                  All Star
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 8828

                  #53
                  Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                  Originally posted by superjames1992
                  I am a fan of the traditional points system (i.e. Pre-Chase), and would prefer to see us return to that, but I know that's not going to happen. I hated the original Chase, but sort of liked the more recent Chase itself (it didn't necessarily reward the best driver, but that went out of the window with the Chase's implementation, anyways, and it was at least entertaining).


                  That being said, this does certainly wreak of desperation to me, as well.
                  I also agree with you in the fact that it does wreak of desperation. I really wasn't a fan of the last system with the whole 16 Drivers, down to 12, 8 then final 4. NASCAR isn't March Madness. I thought the 12 Driver Chase system was better because you have the top 10, and essentially the two wild card spots. Plus there was a battle within the Championship Chase to make the Top 10 to make it to the Banquet.

                  To me, NASCAR has made so many tweaks to try to manufacture drama and not let the drama come naturally. I think on top of the ever constant points system change along with the lack of drivers to keep fans interested, NASCAR is going to lose more fans.

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                  • franko3219
                    Pro
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 788

                    #54
                    Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                    Originally posted by UFCMPunk
                    To me, NASCAR has made so many tweaks to try to manufacture drama and not let the drama come naturally. I think on top of the ever constant points system change along with the lack of drivers to keep fans interested, NASCAR is going to lose more fans.
                    That is the problem, they have plenty of drama that can come naturally, but they only want "clean" drama. God forbid drivers put people in the wall anymore. Don't get me wrong, I never want to see a driver get hurt, and drivers need to be smart about how they handle their business, but when drivers can't have personalities, it really drains the sport of excitement. I was a big fan of the concept of, "boys have at it", but as soon as the people who never watched the sport started to complain, NASCAR bowed down. NASCAR is rooted as a sport of rebels and going against society (moonshiner runners), but apparently the decision makers have forgotten that along the way.

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                    • pk500
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 8062

                      #55
                      Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                      "Boys, have at it," was one of the worst decisions NASCAR has made. Racing should be about who can drive the fastest and most skillfully, not who has the widest chrome horn.

                      The Truck Series finish last August on the road course at Mosport, in which the winner drove the leader into the fence on the final straightaway, was appalling. Any other sanctioning body would have removed the victory for the driver who pile-drove the leader into the wall, and rightfully so. That's not racing.
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                      • franko3219
                        Pro
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 788

                        #56
                        Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                        Originally posted by pk500
                        "Boys, have at it," was one of the worst decisions NASCAR has made. Racing should be about who can drive the fastest and most skillfully, not who has the widest chrome horn.

                        The Truck Series finish last August on the road course at Mosport, in which the winner drove the leader into the fence on the final straightaway, was appalling. Any other sanctioning body would have removed the victory for the driver who pile-drove the leader into the wall, and rightfully so. That's not racing.
                        To clarify, I agree with them being able to use their bumper when necessary. There are boundaries, yes. Putting someone in the wall on the last lap for a win, would be one of those boundaries. I want to see drivers with emotion. The drivers prior to recently were able to police themselves, my God the incident that made NASCAR famous, would result in race suspensions in today's NASCAR.

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                        • Redacted01
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 10316

                          #57
                          Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                          Originally posted by franko3219
                          To clarify, I agree with them being able to use their bumper when necessary. There are boundaries, yes. Putting someone in the wall on the last lap for a win, would be one of those boundaries. I want to see drivers with emotion. The drivers prior to recently were able to police themselves, my God the incident that made NASCAR famous, would result in race suspensions in today's NASCAR.
                          Were you saying that after this? Obviously not to the extent of that truck finish, but in the wall enough to keep him from winning.



                          I think most of us considered that good, hard racing.

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                          • franko3219
                            Pro
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 788

                            #58
                            Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                            Originally posted by dochalladay32
                            Were you saying that after this? Obviously not to the extent of that truck finish, but in the wall enough to keep him from winning.



                            I think most of us considered that good, hard racing.
                            I enjoyed that finish. I'm more referring to, intentionally ending someone's day at the end just so you can win. That was an exciting finish.

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                            • pk500
                              All Star
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 8062

                              #59
                              Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                              Originally posted by dochalladay32
                              Were you saying that after this? Obviously not to the extent of that truck finish, but in the wall enough to keep him from winning.



                              I think most of us considered that good, hard racing.
                              That was fine. Side-to-side contact while racing for a win. Beautiful.

                              But moving a leading car with your front bumper because you lack the speed or driving skill to make a clean pass is 100 percent BS in every instance. That's not good, hard racing. It's lack of talent.

                              Sadly, most NASCAR fans consider that part of racing. It's not.
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                              • Redacted01
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 10316

                                #60
                                Re: Official NASCAR Series News Thread

                                Originally posted by pk500
                                That was fine. Side-to-side contact while racing for a win. Beautiful.

                                But moving a leading car with your front bumper because you lack the speed or driving skill to make a clean pass is 100 percent BS in every instance. That's not good, hard racing. It's lack of talent.

                                Sadly, most NASCAR fans consider that part of racing. It's not.
                                So what's the opinion on the Earnhardt/Labonte incident to end the Bristol night race in 1999? I wouldn't classify Earnhardt as having a 'lack of talent'.

                                And what makes using the side of your car for a non-clean pass not BS? There's unavoidable contact and then there is avoidable contact. Larson could have given room there. Sure, it might have cost him the win, but isn't needing to use your car to get another driver into the wall enough to keep him behind you just as unjustified?

                                I'm not saying any of these cases are right or wrong. It sounds like we try to make black-and-white out of something that is, and always will be, mostly gray. The truck incident with Nemechek? Sure, wrong all around. But I wouldn't call Larson's move clean by any stretch. So what makes a good racing move, well, good?

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