Greatest American Band of All-Time

[eXperiment63]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

The Eagles
TOOL
Aerosmith
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Guns N' Roses

Those are probably my top 5 American Bands...

I'm amazed nobody had mentioned Tool yet... only the most influential rock band of the last 20 years...

[CM1847]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

The Eagles
TOOL
Aerosmith
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Guns N' Roses

Those are probably my top 5 American Bands...

I'm amazed nobody had mentioned Tool yet... only the most influential rock band of the last 20 years...

I can see the argument for Tool, but they aren't the most influential. Take Nirvana who ushered in a new era, or Pearl Jam who have given careers to the majority of bands on the radio today. Maybe even Rage or Korn for influencing the rap/rock craze. Tool has influenced a heck of a lot of bands, but how many of them are popular right now? Heck, Pixies influenced any rock band who got on the radio in the 90s. Every indie band today owes Pavement something. And Green Day who influenced most of the bands on the radio that Pearl Jam didn't.

It is a tough call as to who is the most influential, I see the case for Tool, but as far as influencing popular music I would go with Pearl Jam or Green Day. Both have so many rip-offs today it is embarassing. Probably give Green Day the edge right now just because pop/punk seems to be more popular right now, I think.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I see your argument.... But you even hear Tool riffs in pop/punk these days. You don't have to have illegitimate spawn to be influential. You listen to even those most pop/punk band you can find and you will hear one thing from tool... atleast one, and every single one of em will tell you they have been influenced by tool. Maybe not in the music they make, but easily in the lyrics they write.

The only major band out right now that sounds similar to Nirvana is Seether...
You can hear Tool riffs or drum loops in: Nickelback, Shinedown, Godsmack, Blink 182, Atomship, 12 Stones, Submersed, Alter Bridge, CREED, EVERY newer metal band, and pretty much all newer rock bands....

Tool's genre(metal) may not be as much in the forefront as Nirvana(rock), but trust me.... It is there and kicking. Tool is still years ahead of the curve. You hear bands putting out stuff that sounds like Undertow(1993) now, and it is selling now.

[CM1847]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I wasn't really arguing Nirvana as a direct influence on many bands, but rather for the doors they opened for all of the popular bands of the 90s. Woudl the door have opened anyway? Probably, but who's to say when and by who.

I'd be lying if I pretended I could discuss guitar riffs or drum loops in Nickelback songs with you, so I won't even bother. As far as overall sound, at least 75% of what I head on the rock radio today(which isn't much, I don't turn on the radio often) sounds like a Green Day or a Pearl Jam clone. The technical instrument parts of the music may be directly related to Tool, I don't really know. But in terms of basic sound, most radio music I hear today is either pop-punk or some derivitive of Pearl Jam's style.

I'll accept your points about the riffs, lyrics and drum loops, but in terms of overall sound and style, I don't hear many bands today and think "wow, these guys are imitating Tool."

[Scottdau]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I can see the argument for Tool, but they aren't the most influential. Take Nirvana who ushered in a new era, or Pearl Jam who have given careers to the majority of bands on the radio today. Maybe even Rage or Korn for influencing the rap/rock craze. Tool has influenced a heck of a lot of bands, but how many of them are popular right now? Heck, Pixies influenced any rock band who got on the radio in the 90s. Every indie band today owes Pavement something. And Green Day who influenced most of the bands on the radio that Pearl Jam didn't.

It is a tough call as to who is the most influential, I see the case for Tool, but as far as influencing popular music I would go with Pearl Jam or Green Day. Both have so many rip-offs today it is embarassing. Probably give Green Day the edge right now just because pop/punk seems to be more popular right now, I think.

I grew up with Billy Joe and were good friends, still good friends with his brother. The Ramones were big with him going up. I still can't believe how big they got. But they have had a lot of success, so I can see them being a choice, but I am probably bias.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I don't hear many bands today and think "wow, these guys are imitating Tool."

You know why that is? It is due to the fact that it is FAR too hard for your average band to imitate a band with as much raw talent as Tool. Danny Carey is easily one of the top 3 drummers alive. Adam Jones is one of the best guitarists alive. Maynard.... well his voice and writing talent speak for themselves I think.

I do see your point about PJ though, not saying they didn't influence as much as Tool. They probably influnced their own genre more than Tool because it is far too hard to rip-off Tool. As far as crossing the genre boundaries though, Tool has influenced FAR more bands. You can take those PJ clones and find Tool in them... You can't take one of the few bands that can pull off a Tool sound and find PJ in them.

Hurt for example. Their first single 'Rapture'... first thing you think of when hearing it is Tool. The vocals remind you of Maynard, the guitar reminds you of Adam, and the lyrics especially... They remind you the most of Tool. Hurt is honestly the only NEW band I listen to, frankly because of the fact that they are superiorly talented compared to basically anything else out right now. Where else do you find someone with Maynard's writing talent, a good chunk of his vocal talent(including a better scream), and even more.... That same guy is a top 5 Violin player alive? Their lyrics are EXTREMELY thought provoking, just as are Tool's. Hurt Lyrics <- Give them a read if you want to see some GREAT songs.

Back on topic... While you can easily see Tool influence on them... you will not find any trace of PJ.

[CM1847]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

You know why that is? It is due to the fact that it is FAR too hard for your average band to imitate a band with as much raw talent as Tool. Danny Carey is easily one of the top 3 drummers alive. Adam Jones is one of the best guitarists alive. Maynard.... well his voice and writing talent speak for themselves I think.

I do see your point about PJ though, not saying they didn't influence as much as Tool. They probably influnced their own genre more than Tool because it is far too hard to rip-off Tool. As far as crossing the genre boundaries though, Tool has influenced FAR more bands. You can take those PJ clones and find Tool in them... You can't take one of the few bands that can pull off a Tool sound and find PJ in them.

Back on topic... While you can easily see Tool influence on them... you will not find any trace of PJ.

Like I said, I can't really argue about the technical side of the music. To my ears listening today I hear a lot of Pearl Jam and Green Day rip-offs, and not many Tool rip-offs. All three were/are great at what they do ane none can truly be imitated properly. It doesn't matter how technically great Tool is, or how advanced they are, I just don't hear many bands with a style even remotely close to Tool. Nothing as heavy gets played today, no one tries to imitate Maynard's vocals. The exact styles of the music and vocals of Pearl Jam and Green Day are being ripped off today. Nobody can touch Vedder's vocals, but they sure as heck try.

I can't discuss this with you from a technical POV, maybe Nickleback does use Tool riffs, I don't really know, but when I hear them on the radio all I think about it how directly influenced by Pearl Jam they were. You obviously know more about playing music than I do, so maybe to those with more knowledge Tool can be called, hands down, the most influential band of the past 20 years, but to my very untrained ears, I don't hear it.

[pk500]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

Before anyone starts paying tribute to Green Day as an innovative band, which is a joke in itself, remember that without The Sex Pistols, there would have been no Green Day.

Few bands with just one album influenced as much rock as The Sex Pistols. And The Clash were even more influential.

I know they're not American, but I just wanted to make that point.

Take care,
PK

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

A couple of names that no one has said yet, but I think are great bands are Black Crowes, Aerosmith and KISS.

KISS? Seriously? Wow. I'm not a big fan of Aerosmith either. Their 70s stuff was good and I'd probably like them a lot better if they hadn't done the collaboration with RUN-DMC, but their stuff since the 70s is just meh.

[CM1847]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

Before anyone starts paying tribute to Green Day as an innovative band, which is a joke in itself, remember that without The Sex Pistols, there would have been no Green Day.

Few bands with just one album influenced as much rock as The Sex Pistols. And The Clash were even more influential.

I know they're not American, but I just wanted to make that point.

Take care,
PK

They weren't innovative, but that doesn't mean they didn't influence a whole hell of a lot of kids to start playing pop/punk music. Pearl Jam owes their style to 70s classic rock, you can barely read anything about Tool without seeing a King Crimson comparison, the list goes on. Rock is played out, 99.9% of everythign being done in the last 20 years had already been done in one form or another. Being innovative is a lost art, but that doesn't mean certain bands weren't extremely influential.

[Jistic]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

Before anyone starts paying tribute to Green Day as an innovative band, which is a joke in itself

Amen brother!

[Scottdau]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

Before anyone starts paying tribute to Green Day as an innovative band, which is a joke in itself, remember that without The Sex Pistols, there would have been no Green Day.

Few bands with just one album influenced as much rock as The Sex Pistols. And The Clash were even more influential.

I know they're not American, but I just wanted to make that point.

Take care,
PK

With out of doubt sex pistol had a impact with Greenday, but The Ramones are their biggest impact. Billy was listening to that group at a young age, and uses a lot of riff with those simple cords. I think Pearl Jam has a very high ranking as America best.

[Scottdau]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I might a little younger for Kiss, but they were bigger then life in the 70's and 80's. And people can slam on them all they want, but they put out solid albums.

[Silverstring]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I think that the two dissimilar arguments are being conflated here. The most influential bands are not necessarily the greatest bands. Sure, one can be a component of the other but I think a distinction needs to be made. I would probably put Led Zeppelin at the top of a "most influential" list, but there's no way they would outrank the Stones or Beatles on a "Greatest" list. Same thing with the Sex Pistols, their influence outweighs their "greatness". Remember, inspiring a bunch of terrible clones is nothing to write home about(Korn, or any rap/rock group-god, has there ever been a worse era in retrospect?). Also, some great bands don't inspire many sound-alikes (i.e Radiohead).

I define "Greatness" as an inexact mix of musical ability, contribution to defining a "sound" or era, larger cultural/mainstream impact, influence, longevity/adaptation(to an extent), timelessness, relation to peer bands, and peer response, among other things(for example, one might get grades for being an excellent "live" band, i.e. Pearl Jam, while another might get high marks for pioneering/advancing an area like recording/post production i.e. The Beatles).

I don't impugn the talent level or musical ability of Tool, and, although I'm not a huge fan, I like them. That said, I don't think they deserve to sniff the top ten of a list of greatest american bands. Although they have their fervent fans, they're a niche band. No larger cultural impact, never seen as being at the forefront of any particular era. If you polled a large group of people(all ages/demographics), I would say you have a VERY good chance of getting over 35% who have NEVER heard a Tool song. That just wouldn't happen with Springsteen and the E street, Pearl Jam, The Eagles, and the other contenders being bandied about.

[CM1847]

Re: Greatest American Band of All-Time

I think that the two dissimilar arguments are being conflated here. The most influential bands are not necessarily the greatest bands. Sure, one can be a component of the other but I think a distinction needs to be made. I would probably put Led Zeppelin at the top of a "most influential" list, but there's no way they would outrank the Stones or Beatles on a "Greatest" list. Same thing with the Sex Pistols, their influence outweighs their "greatness". Remember, inspiring a bunch of terrible clones is nothing to write home about(Korn, or any rap/rock group-god, has there ever been a worse era in retrospect?). Also, some great bands don't inspire many sound-alikes (i.e Radiohead).

I define "Greatness" as an inexact mix of musical ability, contribution to defining a "sound" or era, larger cultural/mainstream impact, influence, longevity/adaptation(to an extent), timelessness, relation to peer bands, and peer response, among other things(for example, one might get grades for being an excellent "live" band, i.e. Pearl Jam, while another might get high marks for pioneering/advancing an area like recording/post production i.e. The Beatles).

I don't impugn the talent level or musical ability of Tool, and, although I'm not a huge fan, I like them. That said, I don't think they deserve to sniff the top ten of a list of greatest american bands. Although they have their fervent fans, they're a niche band. No larger cultural impact, never seen as being at the forefront of any particular era. If you polled a large group of people(all ages/demographics), I would say you have a VERY good chance of getting over 35% who have NEVER heard a Tool song. That just wouldn't happen with Springsteen and the E street, Pearl Jam, The Eagles, and the other contenders being bandied about.

Just to clarify, my discussions over most influential weren't meant to mean the same as greatest, but rather an aside since somebody mentioned it.

YOu are correct, influence does NOT equal overall greatness, it is rather one small piece of many that go into factoring "greatness."

And I know tool sells a crazy amount of albums, but you are right about the majority of casual music fans not knowing who the heck they are. Maybe they've heard the name, but I doubt they could name a song.