Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Okay, I'll try and clear this up for some of these issues that have been stated.


First, Amanda is definitely dead. She was shot through the jugular [vein], and that's virtually impossible to survive, especially without immediate medical attention.

Second, the tape in the wax is the one in the tape player, as some people have already determined by several viewings. The Uncut version should better clear this up for us.

Third, there is nothing there that would allow Jeff to resiscitate John. Paddles? Life Support? Nothing. He's dead. The instructions on for the game were probably to come on the tape, but guess what? The movie ended. Darn. There's very little opening for a Saw IV, but like James, Leigh, and Darren have said, they left it like it is in case other young writers want to write new chapters. This is a bull**** move IMO, but I think the ending that we were left with was perfect, although I do not support a Saw IV. Not one bit.


And IF John is to be presumed alive, what's this guy going to do for Saw IV? Huh? You saw his condition in the third one... by Saw IV he's going to be in a coma for Chrissake! I don't see a good premise for Saw IV at all. It's all going down the tubes now.




Mark my words, and remember them: Saw is a trilogy. Anything after it hopefully won't "ruin" the franchise for you in your heart, as long as you remember that the first three are supposed to be together.

[Pared]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Saw IV can easily be a pre-quel, with the images of his wife/lover in this movie laying the foundation as to what that was all about...

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Okay, then it's Saw 0, not Saw IV.

Either way, I don't think it can work too well without Cary Elwes being involved too.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Saw 3...what a let down.

Extremely disappointing, predicted the ending 10 minutes in. The twist of the game being Amanda's seemed forced upon the audience. It just seemed that they wanted to have a twist to continue the twists. It's becoming like M.Night Shymalan (sp?) movie, every movie has a twist at some point, so you go into it expecting it. We now haven't seen Cary Elwes or Donnie Whalberg actually die, both could be alive somewhere. Who knows, all I know is the first Saw was tightly written and put together very well.

Saw 3 was a movie of 100's of flashbacks and other nonsense. Who's the blonde Jigsaw was taking pictures of? And did anyone else notice Obi walking by when Jigsaw was photographing the blonde? If she's been around before, I don't remember her.

Why kill off Amanda? Just to kill her off?

I don't know what it was, but it could be the 3 movies in 3 years thing, but I just left completely disappointed.

Oh, Saw 4, will not be a prequel, it's the story being continued, Jeff's search for his daugther. Jigsaw has the plan laid out, evidenced by his tape recorder already set up for the ending.

EDIT - we also don't know what was in the envelope that Amanda read

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Saw 3...what a let down.

Extremely disappointing, predicted the ending 10 minutes in. The twist of the game being Amanda's seemed forced upon the audience. It just seemed that they wanted to have a twist to continue the twists. It's becoming like M.Night Shymalan (sp?) movie, every movie has a twist at some point, so you go into it expecting it. We now haven't seen Cary Elwes or Donnie Whalberg actually die, both could be alive somewhere. Who knows, all I know is the first Saw was tightly written and put together very well.

Saw 3 was a movie of 100's of flashbacks and other nonsense. Who's the blonde Jigsaw was taking pictures of? And did anyone else notice Obi walking by when Jigsaw was photographing the blonde? If she's been around before, I don't remember her.

Why kill off Amanda? Just to kill her off?

I don't know what it was, but it could be the 3 movies in 3 years thing, but I just left completely disappointed.

Oh, Saw 4, will not be a prequel, it's the story being continued, Jeff's search for his daugther. Jigsaw has the plan laid out, evidenced by his tape recorder already set up for the ending.

Well, I just said it in the other thread, but Saw III is only disappointing in the sense that a Saw IV will still happen. I wanted for this series to be a trilogy so badly... and the way that they made Saw III, it could very well end as one.

The blonde lady's name is Jill. She was John's girlfriend for some time. There's a thing called Saw: Rebirth that you can see online that explains her, though I'm sure we wouldn't all probably know about her. Expect the Uncut DVD (45+ extra minutes of footage) to answer some other questions such as this.

I noticed Obi too. He's just there to be there. That's probably when they acquainted, or something.


Leigh Whannell (writer) and Darren Bousman (director) said in an interview that they never planned for a big twist, and in fact... if looking/listening well enough... most people should be able to get it in the beginning (Jeff's wife being Lynn and the fact that Amanda was always playing a game). So, the only possible letdown is that they had no intention for a big twist.

I liked the ending, but it has to be THE END! Saw IV cannot happen... they shouldn't continue with Jeff and his daughter, as they should be presumed dead. I'll tell you, if Saw IV comes out with them, I just may not see it. Even if I DO see it, I'll probably only pretend that the first three happened, and that he's presumed to be trapped in the place where his daughter suffers and they are forever doomed.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Well, I just said it in the other thread, but Saw III is only disappointing in the sense that a Saw IV will still happen. I wanted for this series to be a trilogy so badly... and the way that they made Saw III, it could very well end as one.

The blonde lady's name is Jill. She was John's girlfriend for some time. There's a thing called Saw: Rebirth that you can see online that explains her, though I'm sure we wouldn't all probably know about her. Expect the Uncut DVD (45+ extra minutes of footage) to answer some other questions such as this.

I noticed Obi too. He's just there to be there. That's probably when they acquainted, or something.


Leigh Whannell (writer) and Darren Bousman (director) said in an interview that they never planned for a big twist, and in fact... if looking/listening well enough... most people should be able to get it in the beginning (Jeff's wife being Lynn and the fact that Amanda was always playing a game). So, the only possible letdown is that they had no intention for a big twist.

I liked the ending, but it has to be THE END! Saw IV cannot happen... they shouldn't continue with Jeff and his daughter, as they should be presumed dead. I'll tell you, if Saw IV comes out with them, I just may not see it. Even if I DO see it, I'll probably only pretend that the first three happened, and that he's presumed to be trapped in the place where his daughter suffers and they are forever doomed.

That's the thing, I own the first 2 DVD's, neither uncut versions. I don't double dip, I bought them when they came out. So I'm assuming the same will be with Saw 3. They'll release the DVD, and then 6 months later, it'll be the uncut super dvd. Whatever, I've watched horror for my whole life, I see the circle of what's happening. Sequel, sequel, sequel. There will be a Saw 5, 6, and 7, you can bet on it. Wes Craven wanted one Nightmare, one Hills Have Eyes... John Carpenter wanted 2 Halloween's, etc. Studios will make sequels if the writers want them or not.

[CMH]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Even if I DO see it, I'll probably only pretend that the first three happened, and that he's presumed to be trapped in the place where his daughter suffers and they are forever doomed.

This is probably a bad time to tell you that all three Saw movies are only a figment of your imagination. I didn't know how else to break it to you, but to be blunt. Sorry.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Saw 4 is coming 10/16/07

Thomas Fenton is one of the writers

http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/7552

[CaptainZombie]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Ok, now that I have seen SAW III and really like how the trilogy has ended, I’m ready to speak about the movie. I think that everyone that brought theories and explanations to the table have done a pretty good job trying to dissect SAW III. Am I all for a SAW IV next Halloween? Not really as I feel that the legacy of the trilogy could become a train wreck since we have a different writing & directorial team on the project. IMO, the SAW trilogy is one of the best in horror history and I can hold in high regards with my all time favorite, the Romero Dead franchise. I think that many are looking at SAW III as a movie on its own and that is not the way to look at this. When I look at SAW III, I look at it as the final chapter that provides answers to the overall picture. I think that Blzer is looking at the big picture of the entire trilogy as I am.

SAW was a masterpiece and I feel that character development is what really made you care about the characters. SAW II was also good, but many feel that the character development wasn’t there. SAW III brought us back to where SAW left off with character development being brought back to the series.

Let’s see. With SAW, we had Dr. Gordon, Adam, Detective Tapp, Alison Gordon, and Kerry which were the focus of character development. With Jigsaw and Amanda we learn of their back stories, but not to the point that we do in SAW II and SAW III.

In SAW II we have Eric Mathews, Daniel Mathews, Kerry, and Amanda that we get the character development in the movie. Since the main focus was on the detectives trying to capture Jigsaw, there was less focus on the characters trapped in the house except for Amanda. SAW II imo was about Amanda and Jigsaw beginning his test on her by throwing her into the fire with the remainder of the trapped people.

Then we get to SAW III, which felt different through out the 1hr 47minutes, but very familiar. We had our main story of Jigsaw testing Amanda, the battle that Jeff was suffering through since his son died, and at the same time were getting a backstory of Jigsaw & Amanda unfolding through flashbacks.

SAW I and ½ of SAW II make us believe that Jigsaw was working alone, then the second ½ of SAW II and SAW III we find out that Amanda was working with Jigsaw all along. They really did a good job bringing all that together.

Like Blzer said, you really can tell in certain parts of the movie they cut out scenes or sequences that really affected the flow of the movie. I found this to be much more noticeable at the beginning of the movie as it just went from Troy getting killed with the chains/bomb explosion right to Kerry in her bedroom and then in the trap. It just felt a bit rushed and felt like something may have been cut out. I almost feel like instead of a flashback with Eric snapping his ankle to escape, the movie should have started with that scene. Then they could have shown 2 more scenes throughout the movie of Eric escaping leading up to the scene where he gets killed by Amanda do to him not shutting his mouth. Instead of Kerry being killed so soon, why not have her looking for Eric and Jigsaw, then let her get killed in the middle of the movie.

With Jeff’s game, I look at it more as Amanda’s game in the overall picture and not Jeff’s. There was no clock I believe due to the fact that Jigsaw didn’t want Jeff or Lyn dead during the part that we thought it was their game. If Jeff would have really let go like Jigsaw was hoping he would have, then his game would have began to free his daughter. Jigsaw was getting tired of Amanda killing her victims after they escaped the game they were in, since he was about if you escape the game, then your free to go. It was his way of testing Amanda to see if she would kill Lyn after she was done playing her game, saving his life from the tumor in his head. Look at the beginning where Amanda welded the door shut and even if the guy got out of the chains, the bomb would have still killed him.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I don't think I've ever really appreciated Amanda coming into the picture. Granted, Shawnee Smith was a great actress in this movie, nothing about her part. It's just that the character had some serious problems, like her strange crush for Jigsaw, and the jealousy that enraged her to want to shoot and kill Lynn.

I don’t see Amanda as having a secret crush for Jigsaw, but I see her as looking at him as a father figure. Granted he kind of made her see the light after she made it out of the trap that she was in SAW. With Jigsaw, he would torture people that were causing serious sins, and by telling them what they did wrong with the tape recorder + the trap they were in if they escaped was his way of getting them to realize they were sinning. I feel like he took her under his wing and that showed her that someone finally cared for her. She kind of felt threatened by another woman, Lyn.

The three traps in Jeff's game were... okay. The one with the judge, in my opinion, was pretty lame to say the least. The pig guts were gross and all, but I wasn't really feeling like he was drowing in it like I have felt in other movies. The other two were superb, but they had some 'skip' in them... something that I hope is probably in the uncut version. You're seeing the girl get sprayed, getting burned by the water from the cold... 10 seconds later, without any shots of her, she's suddenly an icicle.

Yet another scene where I felt there was parts cut out.

FINALLY, Kerry's trap was all great and dandy, but KERRY DIES! She dies, and we never really have time to feel for this character. She was so deep and important, and then she was torn apart... zoom out, next scene. Come on, at least cue some music and have a slow zoom out, maybe fade-to-black. There were so many times that I could have felt like I wanted to cry for a character in this movie, but again... there was no time to. A lot of substance needs a lot of time to devour it all.

I can understand where they should have built up her death scene a bit more leading into it and also making it seem something more afterwards, but we did have time to care for Kerry. She was in SAW, SAW II, and SAW III (for a little bit), which they felt was more than enough for us to understand and get to know her character. I think that were forgetting that SAW trilogy sticks with continuity unlike the Halloween's, Nightmare's, & Friday's forget their past which were used to. In actuality we did get to know Kerry from all 3 movies since this is basically one big story.

The ending had a rather nice tie-in, actually. I liked the ending for Saw III. There are a few exceptions to my liking of it, however:

1) It was too quick. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the Saw trilogy. It came in gone in five minutes, tops. Amanda is a world-class assassin, bam! Jeff and Lynn are husband and wife, bam! Amanda was in a game with Jigsaw through all three movies, bam! Jigsaw is responsible for his son's death, bam! Jeff's murdering of Jigsaw leads to the death of his wife and the future suffering of his child, bam! A few cuts of all three movies, cue Hello Zepp, and fade to black. All in five minutes... WAY too quick.

2) This was an ending appropriate for Saw III only, and not the entire trilogy. Yes, Jigsaw did die, but if there were some twist that had tied all three together (even if it were involving Dr. Gordon or Jeff's relation to another character, whatever), and it was drawn out a little more, then it would have been a little more suitable in my opinion. I feel that not all doors were closed, and that there is an opening for Saw IV, which is terrible. Why? Well, I've given you reasons why before, but the only reason that it's open is because there wasn't a complete tie-in with the third movie and the first (at least, not at the end). I sure hope that this is the end... I REALLY do. No Saw IV, please. I don't want to see Jeff becoming the next Jigsaw because he finally understood all of Jigsaw's motives or something. I don't think I'll accept the Amanda twist being the one (and if it is, it's probably not good enough).

And one more quick question... why the flashbacks of Jigsaw's lover? (I can't saw wife, because I'm not for sure. If it wasn't her lover, I'm talking about that blonde chick in those quick flashbacks by the tree)

It felt like the ending was much longer than 5 minutes and Jigsaw did a very good job explaining everything and why he did what he did. The ending with Jigsaw speaking to Amanda and then Jeff really helped tie together the entire trilogy. What many don’t realize is that this whole story began with Amanda assisting Jigsaw for the first time with the torture/trap of Dr. Gordon and Adam. People were looking for a connection that possibly Dr. Gordon was behind all this, but no I see Amanda, Kerry, Jigsaw, and Dr. Gordon as being the connection between all three movies. Kerry was in all 3 movies with Det. Tapp in the first, and then with Eric Mathews in the second, and by herself in the second trying to find Jigsaw.

How does Dr. Gordon fit into this whole game? We have to remember that Jigsaw was a patient at the hospital that both Dr. Gordon and Lyn were working at. Jigsaw being a wacko even before being admitted to the hospital for treatment decided that since they weren’t going to get him the necessary treatment from the hospital and with both Doctor’s telling him the same information that he’s unoperable, that’s what caused him to go after both of them. I think that he used their weaknesses + sins against them to make them feel similar pain that he was in the sense that he wasn’t getting any help for his sickness. Plus, they were both cheating on their spouse which also has a connection storyline wise.

I do believe that Amanda is dead. It looked like she was nailed in the main artery with the bullet + she isn’t stable or smart enough to continue Jigsaw’s work as she allows her emotions to get in the way. We clearly saw that with Lyn. The only person that Amanda ever released was Daniel and again he was just a pawn in the game to get Eric.

I really don’t think that Jigsaw was responsible for Jeff’s son’s death. Jeff ties into all of this back to Dr. Gordon and Lyn being 2 of the doctor’s that told Jigsaw he was unoperable, so of course both Lyn’s and Dr. Gordon’s families were used as pawns for this game.

As for SAW IV, I was hoping that they really wouldn’t make another but last year if you guys remember the studio was talking about SAW III-V being in production. The news that SAW IV was coming wasn’t a surprise to me. If they do make another, I would hope that they would make it with a whole new story/trilogy in mind. That is the best way that this could work, and I don’t think that Jigsaw is dead either. What if he took that sedative that lowered his heart rate and pulse really making Jeff believe that he did kill him! If Jigsaw does return for SAW IV, they better give us a good logical reason and none of this supernatural/superhuman Jason Vorhees/Michael Myers BS.

As much as I believe that a new trilogy would be the best, I think they take the safer route and possibly continue SAW IV with Jeff playing the real game looking for his daughter by trying to save Jigsaw after slashing his throat with the circular saw. Jigsaw is the only one that knows where his daughter is at.

Despite the flaws, this is one of the best horror trilogies in a long time.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

They're going to turn this into the Scream Franchise.... every sequel from here on out will just be lame... even this one would have been lame if it were for the "traps" alone... I'm more interested in the "traps" within the game... and two of the 3 in this movie weren't that great....

The traps are the center piece of the SAW trilogy in most people's minds, but when you sit back and think that they have pieced together one helluva story with it's fair share of flaws.

I don't think Amanda dying was Jigsaw's real plan.

Jigsaw never intended for anyone to die, so long as they survived their game. Amanda dies because Jeff fails at his game.

I agree with you 100% that Amanda dying wasn't part of Jigsaw's plan. Jigsaw was never about anyone dying, he was more about teaching those that has sinned a lesson. Amanda didn't die because Jeff failed at the game. Amanda died because she allowed her emotions to get the best of her that caused her to fail the test.

Jigsaw as a character grew. At first, we envisioned him as a guy that wanted people to face death in the eye and solve a puzzle in order to live so that they could appreciate their own life. What we learned is that Jigsaw wants people to appreciate the lives of others.

You can almost forget Part II in relation to I and III because Part II was really about Amanda's game. If you think about it in the context that Jigsaw brings out in Saw III you can probably understand that Amanda saw everyone's struggle in Saw II firsthand so she could learn to appreciate the life of others. Instead, she continued to fail. Jigsaw gives her one last chance in III and again she fails.

Jigsaw did change from SAW I to SAW III. I think that there are 2 things that Jigsaw wants, and that's for people to appreciate the lives of others, but also for those that have sinned to learn from their mistakes.

After the flashbacks in SAW III, SAW was Jigsaw's game with Amanda tagging along and learning the system. SAW II was still Jigsaw's game in the overall scope, but Amanda had much more to do with it, which turned out to be very sloppy on her end. SAW III appeared to be Amanda's game, but in the end it was Jigsaw's whom was testing Amanda. The traps outside of the Jeff trap were Amanda's which were more than just a trap. Amanda sealed the door shut on the one dude with the bomb and then with Kerry even though she used the key, snap her rib cage was still ripped apart. Amanda was all about the game, but also about killing the person afterwards.

Jeff went through the game and also failed. He had the chance to forgive those that took away his son. The game was easy for him because it wasn't about his life being in danger. It was about his daughter's life being in danger. And I don't mean that she was in some random place with no oxygen danger. I mean in that he neglected his daughter because all he could think about was his son - that spells early mental issues for a child that already has to live with knowing her brother died at a young age.

He got through the "game" and thought he was done. But, then he kills Amanda because she shoots his wife (another sign that Jeff can't control his emotions - a problem that Amanda had and Jigsaw mentions), and attempts to kill Jigsaw (emphasis on attempts because Jigsaw obviously lives and I'd bet that IV is Jeff continuing the game to get his daughter. We never see Jigsaw die. We only know that Jeff is going to call the abulence to save Jigsaw so he can save his daughter) because his wife dies.

When I put this movie into perspective I think it's the best one of the three. I think the writers wanted us to understand that Jigsaw had a bigger scheme and plan. Part III changes everything about Saw and Saw II.

I really like what you have written here and it just adds to how I feel about the overall picture of the trilogy. SAW III gave us that overall closure and explanations on many levels about the overall story. I look at SAW III as the final chapter in the story of Jigsaw giving someone a chance Amanda, and she screws it all up due to her own selfish reasons. It shows that she is no better than the people that he has captured in the past.

If SAW IV continues with Jeff looking for his daughter, as much as I don't want a sequel, I'll end up watching it.

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

If SAW IV continues with Jeff looking for his daughter, as much as I don't want a sequel, I'll end up watching it.

I honestly don't think that I'll watch Saw IV, especially if they start out with Jeff. I think that's the worst that can happen... continue on with what could have been an obvious trilogy-closer.

By the way, that first post that I made that you replied to... might want to disregard a lot of it. I changed my views on a lot of things since that post that I made, and I agree a lot more with the things that you have said than I have said.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I honestly don't think that I'll watch Saw IV, especially if they start out with Jeff. I think that's the worst that can happen... continue on with what could have been an obvious trilogy-closer.

By the way, that first post that I made that you replied to... might want to disregard a lot of it. I changed my views on a lot of things since that post that I made, and I agree a lot more with the things that you have said than I have said.

I'll watch since I'm a sucker for horror movies.

SAW III is one movie that really has me baffled a bit in some respect. I really liked it, but there are some unanswered things still.

That brain surgery scene is what made me a bit queezy.