Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

[Pared]

DO NOT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ SPOILERS. IT IS FOR THOSE THAT WATCHED THE MOVIE.






















So you've been warned.

[Pared]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I figure this would be easier, as I'd like to discuss the movie without tons of PM's going around.

I don't see how this movie sets up another sequel. Are we assuming Amanda survived the gunshot? Overall, while the film was gory (expected) I can't say it had the same mental **** of the other two... everything just seemed so predictable.

This was the first Saw movie where I saw the connection a mile away. I don't know what it was.... but it was pretty obvious to me. The only thing I didn't catch was that it was a test for Amanda...

Thoughts?

[ballerzinc]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I think the ending definately sets up another movie. How Jigsaw said this is your final test with Jeff's daughter locked in the room. I heard there was going to be a new director for the next one so I think loose ends were left so the new director can take the series where he wants to.

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

The ending better ****ing not set up for another sequel, I'll tell you that much. I for one would be very pissed if they make a Saw IV. Keep it at a trilogy... trilogies are most certainly special in their own little way.

The way I see it, as long as John is dead, that series of movies will be the real Saw series for me. I love the way that it ended in more than one way... one thing that I did not appreciate was the pacing of the end (or the entire movie in general). The beginning was rushed, as well as the ending.

Anyway, I have an entire PM (broke into three) that I wrote out for somebody that's REALLY long, and I'll take them all and post them here pretty soon that talks about a lot of the "negatives" that were intangibly placed in the movie, and how some of them could very well be better fixed for the Uncut version when it comes out.



But just so everyone knows, I made the PM before I read an interview with Leigh Whannell (writer) and Darren Lynn Bousman (director) that said they weren't going for a big twist at all. As a matter of fact, they weren't thinking of it when they made the movie.

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Okay... I will try and give you my take on the "negatives" of the movie, and had they been ironed out, what it would mean for this movie to be ultimately fantastic (given we have the same plot):


First of all, let me start off by saying that this was NOT a 'Hollywood' film. So, if you (and others) truly were Saw diehards, you would have greatly appreciated this movie more than you think you actually have. Saw III was very dark, twisted, grusome, and eerie. It was also completely different from the second one... even different from the first one. Of course, while I could list out all of the positives (which you probably already know), I'm going to list out some negatives that you may or may not know affected your potential liking of this movie. Not that they're really negatives, per se... but they were certain holes or kinds of "incompleteness" that I think could have been filled in if they just made the movie two hours. I guess that you didn't ever really hear any of my rants on any other sites as to why I was so pissed that this movie wasn't 2+ hours, but in short the reason I was hoping for two hours was so that everything was dissolved. They weren't. But, let me start out with some plotholes, or things that made this different from the original Saw.

Foremost, Jeff's game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in my opinion, Jeff's life was not really at stake. The only way that it was was if he didn't finish his job in two hours, which, by the way, we were never given any kind of clock or some sort of notification to give us some tension that he might actually die. Also, Jeff's game (at least with the three confrontations) consisted of nothing more than choosing whether or not he wants them to live or die. I guess Amanda tried to make it so that Jeff had to inflict pain one way or another into the helping of the others, but the most he ever got was skin ripped off of his cheek. Didn't even take the bullet... what a *****. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:13.5pt; height:13.5pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/BRANDO~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://forums.operationsports.com/vBulletin/images/smilies/graemlins/05.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

Speaking of self-inflicting pain, aside from Kerry's trap and Troy's trap, the other ones just involved good ol' fashion murder. Amanda was a murderer. She enjoyed watching her traps do the work in torturing them, with their only chance of survival being from the man who wanted pure vengeance against all of them, hoping they would die (strange how he nearly sympathized for all of them thereafter). Anyway, Troy's trap was impossible. Kerry's trap was impossible. They were dead since being trapped, and there wasn't really a thing they could do about it. John was never about that. That's not Leigh's fault in his own writing, though. He was working with what he was given, and that is Amanda trying to take Jigsaw's place.

I don't think I've ever really appreciated Amanda coming into the picture. Granted, Shawnee Smith was a great actress in this movie, nothing about her part. It's just that the character had some serious problems, like her strange crush for Jigsaw, and the jealousy that enraged her to want to shoot and kill Lynn. Okay, now I know that I'm jumping around page-to-page here, but now... Lynn... her game was interesting, but again... no self-inflicting or torture on herself to get out of her trap. Another hole (sort of) is that Amanda didn't exactly know the reason why Lynn was chosen. She knew that this was her game, and she were to die if she didn't complete the task. Why kill an innocent person? Of course, she's guilty for committing adultery, but Amanda doesn't know that part of the game. Shouldn't have she been more curious as to why Lynn was chosen, other than the reason that "she was the best"?

The three traps in Jeff's game were... okay. The one with the judge, in my opinion, was pretty lame to say the least. The pig guts were gross and all, but I wasn't really feeling like he was drowing in it like I have felt in other movies. The other two were superb, but they had some 'skip' in them... something that I hope is probably in the uncut version. You're seeing the girl get sprayed, getting burned by the water from the cold... 10 seconds later, without any shots of her, she's suddenly an icicle. And then the man (forget his name already, sorry) that killed his son had his head twisted. Yes, his head being twisted was shown, but not the actual twist of it. It just came twisted out of nowhere, and I hope that the uncut version will have the actual twisting of it. Furthermore, not a part of Jeff's game was Troy's trap. Very grusome indeed, but two parts were missing. One was the ripping of the achilles tendons... should have been the most painful out of any of the things, but they went by instantly like it was nothing. Didn't see him struggle or bleed from that at all. As a matter of fact, I don't even know if the human body is physically able to stand after that. The second thing was the explosion. Granted, it was a flashback and reminded me of their editing to Mark's illness trap in Saw... but if they were to really hype the "makes Saw and Saw II look like Disney films" thing, they should have gone for the explosion. Perhaps it had to be cut, and we will see it in the uncut version. Not sure.

FINALLY, Kerry's trap was all great and dandy, but KERRY DIES! She dies, and we never really have time to feel for this character. She was so deep and important, and then she was torn apart... zoom out, next scene. Come on, at least cue some music and have a slow zoom out, maybe fade-to-black. There were so many times that I could have felt like I wanted to cry for a character in this movie, but again... there was no time to. A lot of substance needs a lot of time to devour it all.



The ending had a rather nice tie-in, actually. I liked the ending for Saw III. There are a few exceptions to my liking of it, however:


1) It was too quick. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the Saw trilogy. It came in gone in five minutes, tops. Amanda is a world-class assassin, bam! Jeff and Lynn are husband and wife, bam! Amanda was in a game with Jigsaw through all three movies, bam! Jigsaw is responsible for his son's death, bam! Jeff's murdering of Jigsaw leads to the death of his wife and the future suffering of his child, bam! A few cuts of all three movies, cue Hello Zepp, and fade to black. All in five minutes... WAY too quick.

2) This was an ending appropriate for Saw III only, and not the entire trilogy. Yes, Jigsaw did die, but if there were some twist that had tied all three together (even if it were involving Dr. Gordon or Jeff's relation to another character, whatever), and it was drawn out a little more, then it would have been a little more suitable in my opinion. I feel that not all doors were closed, and that there is an opening for Saw IV, which is terrible. Why? Well, I've given you reasons why before, but the only reason that it's open is because there wasn't a complete tie-in with the third movie and the first (at least, not at the end). I sure hope that this is the end... I REALLY do. No Saw IV, please. I don't want to see Jeff becoming the next Jigsaw because he finally understood all of Jigsaw's motives or something. I don't think I'll accept the Amanda twist being the one (and if it is, it's probably not good enough).

And one more quick question... why the flashbacks of Jigsaw's lover? (I can't saw wife, because I'm not for sure. If it wasn't her lover, I'm talking about that blonde chick in those quick flashbacks by the tree)


Overall, I think I need to see the movie one more time and get everything that I may have missed. I feel that it was too rushed because I couldn't catch up with everything that everybody was saying, and then they were onto something else like [snap!] that. I think I also need to see it again to see if I really like it better than Saw. I like it better than Saw II, and I actually may like it better than Saw (if neither were to have their endings... because Saw is like, the best movie ever because of its ending). But, as long as everybody feels the rushed attack and the incompleteness in the end (not of Saw III, but of the trilogy as a whole), then that's probably what the disappointment is about. I've already listed nearly every other reason for some form of misdirection or incompleteness, but the rest of the movie did so greatly. Eric Mathews, Jigsaw's deterioration, Amanda's betrayal, Jeff's relationship with his children, the ultimate tone, the fact that it was NOT a Hollywood film like Saw II... there could have been possibly more police activity, but I think that would probably be too many things going on at once. So, I think that if those holes were just patched up (most of them aren't too hard... the ending needs more addition and a slower pace, though), it could have been my favorite movie of all time, hands down. Hands down to Leigh Whannel, James Wan, and Darren Bousman. Terrific movie... but maybe if it were a two-year project these things could have been ironed out, and maybe we could have reached for even higher achievements and goals. Overall, though, I'd say that the movie was FANTASTIC, the ending was FANTASTIC for a Saw III standalone, but we needed a trilogy ending. That is all.<o></o>
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I think that most people were deceived by the trailers and were looking for something more in the line of Saw II style and direction, and though you guys didn't post that... that's actually what you really wanted. I didn't, and I'm SO pleased in the DIRECTION that this movie went in.


And one more thing. I heard that over 40 minutes were cut from the movie. So maybe I'll just hold back and wait for the Uncut version of this movie to see it again, and then I'll really be able to see if most things were answered (of course, all but a big-bang end-all Saw trilogy twist).

I feel I have a lot more to say, but I may have already typed too much haha. Let me know if it's too much reading for you, and I'll try to paraphrase it if you can't follow.<o></o>

[skitch]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Nice post(s), Blzer. I agree with nearly everything you said.

[deeman11747]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

There's a good chance that Saw 4 could be a prequel... dont rule that out.

Also... the big problem that plagued the movie was this: Did anyone actualy care about Lynn or Jeff?

The great thing about Saw was that Dr. Gordon an Adam were characters we empathized with. We really wanted them to get out alive and beat the game.

The directors knew that saw 2's problem was the lack of character development. No one gave two craps about anyone in there.

So in this movie... they spent time dveloping their backstories..but I still didnt empathize with them.

Another problem was the whole premise of Jeff's game. Theoretically, he couldve walked down the whole hallway, ignored all of the doors, and emerged in Jigsaw's warehouse. Jigsaw of course had to of known h would go in each room...except Jeff was nevr in any danger. The greatest danger he faced was having his cheek stuck to the pole and the shotgun in his face. Other than that it was all about him helping others.

Another big question is...how would Jigsaw have known that Jeff would emerge immediately as Amanda shot Lynn. If it had happened at any other tine... Jeff probably wouldntve shotten Amanda.. and she wouldnt've "failed" her game.

One thing I kind of laughed at was what if Jeff hadnt killed Jigsaw? Then what? The ambulance comes and takes Lynn and her neck collar away and they just leave Jigsaw there? Either way Jigsaw screwed himself because either he'd be killed by Jeff or he'd be arrested.


Way too many questions plagued this movie... I liked it but it couldve been done a lot better.

[cjonesfan921]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Pretty much agree with Blzr on the ending. I liked how they did that whole husband/wife thing. THe whole time leading to the end we thought that Lynn's husband was the guy in that room that said he wanted a divorce. We didn't know till the end that really that's the guy she is cheating on her husband with. Anyway Blzer pretty much nailed everything right on the head. Nice job.


EDIT: BTW Blzer didn't Amanda die? Remember she lost her game, and died right there. I loved how they did that though. Very clever, how the game we thought was for Lynn but really for Amanda.

[X*Cell]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Interesting enough... you can tell it was a "Saw" movie, but I definetely didn't like it as much as I like the first two.

I remember after seeing Saw, and Saw II, I was thinking about the movie for days, and its complexities, just trying to figure it all out.

I saw Saw III earlier today, and nearly forgot all about it until now. It just didn't leave much of an impression on me.

As for a sequel... I agree with Blzer... No Saw IV!!! ... unless it's a prequel, then maybe.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Jigsaw is responsible for his son's death, bam! Jeff's murdering of Jigsaw leads to the death of his wife and the future suffering of his child, bam! <o></o>

Jigsaw wasn't responsible for the death of Jeffs son, the guy in the twist thing was responsible for the sons death, Jigsaw let him come face to face with him like he promised. Then when Jeff got to Jigsaw he told him (paraphrasing since I dont remember hte exact quote) that he was responsible for the death of his child, meaning the daughter since he had her in the room with the limited supply of oxygen.

Unless I missed something which is entirely possible, I'm pretty sure Jigsaw wasn't responsible for the sons death, but if he was and I missed that please fill me in.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

As for a sequel... I agree with Blzer... No Saw IV!!! ... unless it's a prequel, then maybe.

I really don't want a Saw IV but with the money this one is making I'd expect one, a prequel wouldn't be too bad (although I still dont want a 4th one), but I could also see them going with it to where Jeff has to find his daughter, Jigsaw could be in it through flashbacks and stuff, but wasn't there a tape on the table beside Jigsaw that he poured wax on at some point in the movie, perhaps thats the first part of the puzzle Jeff needs to complete in hopes of finding his daughter.

[Zer0xray]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I really don't want a Saw IV but with the money this one is making I'd expect one, a prequel wouldn't be too bad (although I still dont want a 4th one), but I could also see them going with it to where Jeff has to find his daughter, Jigsaw could be in it through flashbacks and stuff, but wasn't there a tape on the table beside Jigsaw that he poured wax on at some point in the movie, perhaps thats the first part of the puzzle Jeff needs to complete in hopes of finding his daughter.

prob gonna be a copycat or someone that knew jigsaw or something. Im just assuming. Jeff becoming the next Jigsaw would be kinda lame and the writers are better than that

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Jigsaw wasn't responsible for the death of Jeffs son, the guy in the twist thing was responsible for the sons death, Jigsaw let him come face to face with him like he promised. Then when Jeff got to Jigsaw he told him (paraphrasing since I dont remember hte exact quote) that he was responsible for the death of his child, meaning the daughter since he had her in the room with the limited supply of oxygen.

Unless I missed something which is entirely possible, I'm pretty sure Jigsaw wasn't responsible for the sons death, but if he was and I missed that please fill me in.

I'm sorry, I meant "child's", which in essence would lead to "daughter's".

Remember the last thing that he said (in his tape):


"Hello Jeff. I made this tape as an insurance policy... and if you're listening to it, then, it's time to collect. I was your final test... of forgiveness... and if you're listening to this, then you have failed. Now you must pay the price: the price of living for nothing but vengeance. Now i will give you something to live for. I told you that you couldnt kill me Jeff, but i didnt tell you why... and the answer is simple. I am the person responsible for the loss of your child. I am the only person who knows where your daughter is. She only has a limited supply of air Jeff, and if you want to get her back, you'll have to play a game........."



My fault for typing it wrong, though. I was just thinking on too many different levels when I typed it.

[mike01]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

I also felt that it was rushed. A lot of stuff to think about, I really need to see all 3 movies in a short span again to figure everything out.

At first glance I didn't like this as much as the first one no doubt, maybe on par with the second.

[Blzer]

Re: Saw III SPOILER discussion **Warning**

Again, not sure if I've said it in this thread, but the Uncut edition is supposed to have about 45 extra minutes of footage. Hopefully it spreads out the beginning and the end more, so that the pacing isn't so damn off.