Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

[jmood88]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

It's good to see tha Jay is still letting Bleek eat by having him on stage with him. I really likes Bleek's first album then nothing. At least he is still getting paid. "Feed Memphis Bleek in 08."

Sorry. Slow day at work.

Lmao I don't get why Jay is such good friends with him, he even said that he would write an entire Bleek album but Bleek won't let him.

[trobinson97]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

He died before his second album came out.

You don't say...


Lol, I am done with this thread already.

[Cebby]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Look I'm a Jay fan but if you dont have him somewhere in your top 5...you are nuts.

That's some straight stanism. I like Jay Z, but he's gotten away with being pretty good for a really long time. In terms of mainstream rappers from a relatively similar time period, I don't think it's remotely difficult to say that he wasn't as good as Nas, Eminem, and Ghostface. Then throw in an obligatory late 80s rapper, a semi underground rapper, and of course, a "died before they could put out much" rapper, and you've got Jay Z out of the top 5.

I mean, I rarely hear a Jay Z song I don't like, but it's also rare that I hear something and immediately want to hear it again. He's not in my top 5, 10, or 20, and I don't think I'm nuts.

[aholbert32]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

That's some straight stanism. I like Jay Z, but he's gotten away with being pretty good for a really long time. In terms of mainstream rappers from a relatively similar time period, I don't think it's remotely difficult to say that he wasn't as good as Nas, Eminem, and Ghostface. Then throw in an obligatory late 80s rapper, a semi underground rapper, and of course, a "died before they could put out much" rapper, and you've got Jay Z out of the top 5.

I mean, I rarely hear a Jay Z song I don't like, but it's also rare that I hear something and immediately want to hear it again. He's not in my top 5, 10, or 20, and I don't think I'm nuts.

Stanism? That's ****ing corny. If you would have read the entire quote you would understand my point. Part of it is my mistake because I should have said THE top 5 instead of YOUR top 5. There is a difference. For example, I'm not a 2pac fan so he wouldnt be in MY top 10 favorite rappers but I understand that millions of hip hop fans love his music, he sold a ton of records and had a huge effect on the world of hip hop. So if I was making a top 10 greatest rappers list I would have to put him in it.

Jay isnt even my favorite rapper (Mos and Rakim are) but when you combine all the things I listed in my previous posts he's easily in the top 5. Going off your list, Em and Nas are definite top 5 or 10. Ghostface imo is a great lyricist who cant sell records and who has trouble creating hit records and decent hooks. I stand by my point that factoring all those the things I think its crazy if you dont have Jay in a top 5 greatest rappers list.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Stanism? That's ****ing corny. If you would have read the entire quote you would understand my point. Part of it is my mistake because I should have said THE top 5 instead of YOUR top 5. There is a difference. For example, I'm not a 2pac fan so he wouldnt be in MY top 10 favorite rappers but I understand that millions of hip hop fans love his music, he sold a ton of records and had a huge effect on the world of hip hop. So if I was making a top 10 greatest rappers list I would have to put him in it.

Jay isnt even my favorite rapper (Mos and Rakim are) but when you combine all the things I listed in my previous posts he's easily in the top 5. Going off your list, Em and Nas are definite top 5 or 10. Ghostface imo is a great lyricist who cant sell records and who has trouble creating hit records and decent hooks. I stand by my point that factoring all those the things I think its crazy if you dont have Jay in a top 5 greatest rappers list.

All that may make him a top 5 artist, but not a top 5 rapper. That takes lyrics, style & skill. & Jay-Z is @ the bottom in all 3 catergories among the so-called giants.

[aholbert32]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

All that may make him a top 5 artist, but not a top 5 rapper. That takes lyrics, style & skill. & Jay-Z is @ the bottom in all 3 catergories among the so-called giants.

Really? I'll just agree to disagree.

[Rocky]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Nobody ever thought Jay-Z was nicer than Big when he was alive. Seriously, it wasn't even close. Don't see how anybody can put Jay-Z over Big.

[Brandon13]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Nobody ever thought Jay-Z was nicer than Big when he was alive. Seriously, it wasn't even close. Don't see how anybody can put Jay-Z over Big.

I'm not much of a rap fan so forgive my ignorance but how long had Jay-Z been well known before Biggie died?

[Cebby]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

SPart of it is my mistake because I should have said THE top 5 instead of YOUR top 5. There is a difference. For example, I'm not a 2pac fan so he wouldnt be in MY top 10 favorite rappers but I understand that millions of hip hop fans love his music, he sold a ton of records and had a huge effect on the world of hip hop. So if I was making a top 10 greatest rappers list I would have to put him in it.

Jay isnt even my favorite rapper (Mos and Rakim are) but when you combine all the things I listed in my previous posts he's easily in the top 5. Going off your list, Em and Nas are definite top 5 or 10. Ghostface imo is a great lyricist who cant sell records and who has trouble creating hit records and decent hooks. I stand by my point that factoring all those the things I think its crazy if you dont have Jay in a top 5 greatest rappers list.

Personally, I think universal lists of what is the best are silly. They're what lead people to list Citizen Kane as the greatest movie of all time, even though nobody has willingly watched that movie a second time in the last 20 years. You hear that it's a great movie, watch it, are unimpressed, but continue to list it in the top 10 because everyone else does. If people just stand up and say "let's be serious, Citizen Kane blows in today's world" we'd be in better shape. Apply this to music.

The bigger thing that I disagree with is bringing up hooks, hits, and sales into any argument about quality. Rap is the only genre people ever bring that up in. Led Zeppelin's IV and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon combined for 3 top 50 singles, with a high of 15 on the charts, yet they're considered the best albums of the 70s. Jimi Hendrix had 1 top 50 single. Yet he doesn't seem to suffer.

Rap is the only genre where people say "yeah, Ghost is dope, but 13 year old girls aren't feeling him, so he's not that great." 50 is unarguably the best hitmaker in rap history, yet there's no way he's a top 10 rapper IMO. At the same time, I don't think Inspectah Deck has ever even charted a single, but I'd put him as a rapper up against anyone. Uncontrolled Substance peaked at 19 and didn't go gold, but I'd put it above any Jay Z album.

If you want to put sales and hits into the equation, how much do they weigh? I mean, 50 is the best hitmaker ever, dropped a classic album, and was the biggest person in music for 3 years. Lil Wayne dropped a near classic album, and his selling 1 million in a week in today's sales is probably the biggest achievement since Eminem was at #1 for 10 weeks or so. If you're dealing with factors other than pure rapping ability, there's no way you can put Jay Z above 50.

[N51_rob]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Lmao I don't get why Jay is such good friends with him, he even said that he would write an entire Bleek album but Bleek won't let him.

As far as I know they are both from the Marcy PJ's. Like I said his first album shoed promise. Then he just fizzeled out. A few hot bars here and there, but not much fire.

[aholbert32]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

Personally, I think universal lists of what is the best are silly. They're what lead people to list Citizen Kane as the greatest movie of all time, even though nobody has willingly watched that movie a second time in the last 20 years. You hear that it's a great movie, watch it, are unimpressed, but continue to list it in the top 10 because everyone else does. If people just stand up and say "let's be serious, Citizen Kane blows in today's world" we'd be in better shape. Apply this to music.

The bigger thing that I disagree with is bringing up hooks, hits, and sales into any argument about quality. Rap is the only genre people ever bring that up in. Led Zeppelin's IV and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon combined for 3 top 50 singles, with a high of 15 on the charts, yet they're considered the best albums of the 70s. Jimi Hendrix had 1 top 50 single. Yet he doesn't seem to suffer.

Rap is the only genre where people say "yeah, Ghost is dope, but 13 year old girls aren't feeling him, so he's not that great." 50 is unarguably the best hitmaker in rap history, yet there's no way he's a top 10 rapper IMO. At the same time, I don't think Inspectah Deck has ever even charted a single, but I'd put him as a rapper up against anyone. Uncontrolled Substance peaked at 19 and didn't go gold, but I'd put it above any Jay Z album.

If you want to put sales and hits into the equation, how much do they weigh? I mean, 50 is the best hitmaker ever, dropped a classic album, and was the biggest person in music for 3 years. Lil Wayne dropped a near classic album, and his selling 1 million in a week in today's sales is probably the biggest achievement since Eminem was at #1 for 10 weeks or so. If you're dealing with factors other than pure rapping ability, there's no way you can put Jay Z above 50.

I disagree with a number of points:

Universal lists work much better for rap than movies or other genres because rap is still a relative new artform. When I say Follow The Leader was a great album, I say that not because Ive heard people say it was a great album...but because I bought the tape when it came out and loved it. Same goes for Reasonable Doubt, 50's 1st album and hundreds of other good rap albums. Thats another reason why I say Pac was overrated because I remember how people talked about him in 95-96. People werent calling Pac a legend back then.

Hooks are important because pretty great rap songs have good hooks. If an artist cant write a hook there is a good chance he cant consitently make great songs. Hits and Sales arent the most important factor but they are a factor. There are songs that become hits that arent good songs (ex. Solja Boy) but to act like they dont matter in determining a great artist is a little ridiculous imo.

Also to excuse Ghost and Deck's subpar sales on 13 yr old girls is just plain wrong. I bought Ghost's good albums and didnt buy his crap ones and so did alot of knowlegable hip hop fans. Deck's first album was solid but not a classic. I'm a firm believe that people buy classic albums eventually. Reasonable Doubt went platinum years after release because of word of mouth. The fact that US didnt sell and still hasnt sold is one of the many factors that shows me it wasnt a classic album to most people. Fishscale was a good album but was released when sales were dropping across the board. Also no one was saying that Ghostface wasnt a great rapper....just not top 5.

Dropping 1 classic album isnt enough imo. You could argue that every person in my top 10 had at least two. As for 50 having more rapping ability than Jay....I'll just agree to disagree on that.

I still stand by my point that a universal list is much different than a personal list.

[Cebby]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

As for 50 having more rapping ability than Jay....I'll just agree to disagree on that.

I'm saying every factor aside from rapping ability. Sales, hits, ability to make Tony Yayo a gold selling rapper, putting out good rappers, managing a label, becoming the biggest music act on the planet, and making several hundred million on Vitamin Water.

[KENYON06]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

he owned Gallagher.. Jay you're not in the same breath as Pac and Biggy.

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Was the beginning a joke? With him fake playing a guitar and messing up the song? Is that for real?

The Back in Black part was pretty cool though.

[aholbert32]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

I'm saying every factor aside from rapping ability. Sales, hits, ability to make Tony Yayo a gold selling rapper, putting out good rappers, managing a label, becoming the biggest music act on the planet, and making several hundred million on Vitamin Water.

I can match that. Jay has 2 classic albums...50 has 1. Jay has 8 straight #1 albums. Every album Jay has put out (11 in total) is platinum. I would put the team of Memphis, Freeway and Beanie Sigel up against Banks, Yayo and Buck any day. The money he made off selling Rocawear and Rocafella and the Live Nation and 40/40 deals have him currently at #6 on the Forbes celebrity list. 50 is #26 on that list.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Jay-Z killed it at Glastonbury

My bad on the title. I wrote it up this morning without much consideration over mistaken reading.

I really have no idea at all how that many people got confused...but eh.....maybe its b\c I knew about the Glastonbury performance...

anyway, I think people have a natural tendencey to go against whoever is on top....Jay-Z in this case....hes good and he knows it, and we love to go for the underdog....

if you just dont like Jay, thats understandable....but I really dont see how you can take anything away from his talent....all I know is hes regarded as the best by his peers and hip hops greatest who are NOT "stans" by any means...

Hip hops opinion > OS's IMO