Nas: Untitled

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Nas: Untitled

I think the things that are important to 50 are important to Jay-Z; money, power, and respect. Jay-Z has more of all three than 50.

I don't think it's that cut and dry, but honestly I'm not really interested in the Jay vs 50 "which one of them has more of what they want" debate. They are both two ridiculously successful men, lmao. I think they both accomplish what they set out to accomplish, by and large.

There is one thing that I think 50 trumps Jay in though, and I think it's worth mentioning because it ties into other things I was talking about regarding rap. Jay has expressed that he wishes he could rap outside of his image, and talk about some of the things he really thinks about. However, he's branded himself in a way that kind of pigeon holes him.

50 on the other hand has a brand that allows him to talk about whatever he wants, but also gives him the freedom of having the crossover appeal he obviously appreciates. 50 *likes* going abroad and meeting people around the world. He likes educating himself beyond the borders of Queens, and his image works for him in that regard, in a way that Jay's image betrays some of his personal ambitions.

50 has the added "street cred" of being SHOT nine times while going to his car to retrieve some jewelry. Mind you, he didn't shoot anyone, he himself was shot. That doesn't necessarily make him tough. As Jay-Z (who shot his own brother over some jewelry) would say, "ya'll respect the one who got shot, I respect the shooter".

I was just addressing this point right here. I didn't mean to jump into the rest of the debate. You put street cred in quotes, and implied that his past experiences don't make him tough, but I disagree. I'm pretty sure that 50 is usually the "toughest" person in the room most of the time, lol, and by contrast Jay and Nas are not.

[Streets]

Re: Nas: Untitled

I was just addressing this point right here. I didn't mean to jump into the rest of the debate. You put street cred in quotes, and implied that his past experiences don't make him tough, but I disagree. I'm pretty sure that 50 is usually the "toughest" person in the room most of the time, lol, and by contrast Jay and Nas are not.

Ahhh... my bad man. The "street cred" thing was in quotations because I think the whole notion is stupid in rap, not because I don't think that 50 has it or that he isn't tough.

Also, while I don't doubt that the guy is both tough and has done dirt, most of his rap "street cred" came from getting popped nine times. Not many people know about his time busting heads in QB and he doesn't really rap about that like he does getting blasted.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Ahhh... my bad man. The "street cred" thing was in quotations because I think the whole notion is stupid in rap, not because I don't think that 50 has it or that he isn't tough.

Also, while I don't doubt that the guy is both tough and has done dirt, most of his rap "street cred" came from getting popped nine times. Not many people know about his time busting heads in QB and he doesn't really rap about that like he does getting blasted.

I think there's a couple of lessons in that. You don't rap about real dirt. I just wish it was about the music. If it was about the music, I wouldn't have this feeling like rap is being graded on a curve. Many forms of music have a section that is about fluff more than substance, but in rap the glut of the fans buy into it, and the glut of the artists sell it. It's to the point where already popular artists are terrified of writing music that means something to them, in fear that their fans won't get it and will alienate them.

It's very strange, when I look at a band like Opeth, or the Mars Volta that just seem to write what they think is good, and the fans go to them because they think it's good music. Most of those fans know nothing about the actual musicians, while rap fans know more about Jay-Z's bank account than they do about his method of constructing a verse.

Small correction, Fiddy is from Jamaica, which is where I spent a lot of time growing up, rather than Queensbridge. Skip is from Jamaica too.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Nas: Untitled

I think there's a couple of lessons in that. You don't rap about real dirt. I just wish it was about the music. If it was about the music, I wouldn't have this feeling like rap is being graded on a curve. Many forms of music have a section that is about fluff more than substance, but in rap the glut of the fans buy into it, and the glut of the artists sell it. It's to the point where already popular artists are terrified of writing music that means something to them, in fear that their fans won't get it and will alienate them.

It's very strange, when I look at a band like Opeth, or the Mars Volta that just seem to write what they think is good, and the fans go to them because they think it's good music. Most of those fans know nothing about the actual musicians, while rap fans know more about Jay-Z's bank account than they do about his method of constructing a verse.

Small correction, Fiddy is from Jamaica, which is where I spent a lot of time growing up, rather than Queensbridge. Skip is from Jamaica too.

[Flyboy]

Re: Nas: Untitled

"Hero" has become my ISH. I blame Cebby.

[Kruza]

Re: Nas: Untitled

I think there's a couple of lessons in that. You don't rap about real dirt. I just wish it was about the music. If it was about the music, I wouldn't have this feeling like rap is being graded on a curve. Many forms of music have a section that is about fluff more than substance, but in rap the glut of the fans buy into it, and the glut of the artists sell it. It's to the point where already popular artists are terrified of writing music that means something to them, in fear that their fans won't get it and will alienate them.

I would have to agree about this to a degree. And truthfully, it's been this way since '94 if not a little sooner.

If it was strictly about dirt and absolutely no fluff, then Freddie Foxxx would be the most popular artist alive because he's as true a gangster as there is who's rapped about his dirt from day one, who's been around since the late '80s. Never followed an image created by anyone else or copied anyone else's style. Never held back from what he want to rap about and how he wants to say it. Never has gotten along with following any "rules and regulations" that majors tend to demand from any artist who wishes to sign with them. And he still holds his own on the mic lyrically. Yet most people really don't know who he is. So why isn't Bumpy Knuckles popular?

It's about compromising with A&Rs and other executives (most of whom are not avid hip-hop listeners/enthusiasts to begin with) from the major record labels on how far you'll go to aim to be a popular mainstream rapper. Are you willing to sacrifice creative freedom, creative talent, and basically selling your soul to create some cookie-cutter stuff in order to stick closely to the formula that has proven to be successful at selling records to the mainstream audience along with getting a lot of radio airplay and video exposure?

And don't fool yourself about Nas, because he -- like many artists who have dealt with the mainstream market over the last 14 years -- has sold his soul in the past to get in the position where he is today. Just not nearly to the extent Jay-Z has. But you cannot blame either guy all that much for doing so since it's pretty much necessary in order to survive in the extremely fickle mainstream market. I'd rather see all the more skilled artists go the indie route anyway so their talents can shine even more.

Kruza

[Cj7298419]

Re: Nas: Untitled

With all of that said.....this is still one of his best works.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Nas: Untitled

I would have to agree about this to a degree. And truthfully, it's been this way since '94 if not a little sooner.

If it was strictly about dirt and absolutely no fluff, then Freddie Foxxx would be the most popular artist alive because he's as true a gangster as there is who's rapped about his dirt from day one, who's been around since the late '80s. Never followed an image created by anyone else or copied anyone else's style. Never held back from what he want to rap about and how he wants to say it. Never has gotten along with following any "rules and regulations" that majors tend to demand from any artist who wishes to sign with them. And he still holds his own on the mic lyrically. Yet most people really don't know who he is. So why isn't Bumpy Knuckles popular?

It's about compromising with A&Rs and other executives (most of whom are not avid hip-hop listeners/enthusiasts to begin with) from the major record labels on how far you'll go to aim to be a popular mainstream rapper. Are you willing to sacrifice creative freedom, creative talent, and basically selling your soul to create some cookie-cutter stuff in order to stick closely to the formula that has proven to be successful at selling records to the mainstream audience along with getting a lot of radio airplay and video exposure?

And don't fool yourself about Nas, because he -- like many artists who have dealt with the mainstream market over the last 14 years -- has sold his soul in the past to get in the position where he is today. Just not nearly to the extent Jay-Z has. But you cannot blame either guy all that much for doing so since it's pretty much necessary in order to survive in the extremely fickle mainstream market. I'd rather see all the more skilled artists go the indie route anyway so their talents can shine even more.

Kruza

[NC State-31 UNC-27]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Am I the only one who hates Sly Flox? I mean just the fact that he dedicates a song to a TV channel.....maybe someone needs to remind him that the government and FOX News are two different things? Does he think him telling us Fox News isn't fair and balanced is some new revelation?

He could have made a song about how tootsie rolls are brown and been just as relevant.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Fox isn't different than the current administration though. Fox is the mouthpiece for them. They are very staunch Bush apologists on that channel. They will support him no matter what, and they show right wing propaganda.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Am I the only one who hates Sly Flox? I mean just the fact that he dedicates a song to a TV channel.....maybe someone needs to remind him that the government and FOX News are two different things? Does he think him telling us Fox News isn't fair and balanced is some new revelation?

He could have made a song about how tootsie rolls are brown and been just as relevant.

Sly Fox is 1 of my favorite songs on the album.

[NC State-31 UNC-27]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Sly Fox is 1 of my favorite songs on the album.

Yea I've seen several people say that....Fox is a business though, they can do whatever they want. I think someone needs to tell Nas that he can change the channel if he doesn't like it . I mean he's talking about how "Bush tells lies and Fox trots so I don't know whats real".......uhh, dude, change the channel!

I don't understand what he's getting at. He's really stretching it IMO to find something political to complain about.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Good job, Nasir. I anxiously await your raps about how fair and legitimate other news outlets are. Thanks for telling me that people are lying to me. I feel so much better now!



.....Political discussion is not allowed on OS.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Yea I've seen several people say that....Fox is a business though, they can do whatever they want. I think someone needs to tell Nas that he can change the channel if he doesn't like it . I mean he's talking about how "Bush tells lies and Fox trots so I don't know whats real".......uhh, dude, change the channel!

I don't understand what he's getting at. He's really stretching it IMO to find something political to complain about.

He's also going at Fox because Fox is associated with Bill Orielly who made comments about Nas when he was supposed to perform @ some event at Virginia tech. It's definitely 1 of the best songs on the album and fits the theme of the album perfectly. Listen to what he's talking about. Go deeper. He's not just talkin about Fox. He's talking about the media in general. WAKE UP DUDE!

[SageInfinite]

Re: Nas: Untitled

Good job, Nasir. I anxiously await your raps about how fair and legitimate other news outlets are. Thanks for telling me that people are lying to me. I feel so much better now!



.....Political discussion is not allowed on OS.

Guess Nas aint for everybody.......