Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

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  • Blzer
    Resident film pundit
    • Mar 2004
    • 42515

    #16
    Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

    Originally posted by yamabushi
    The only reason DK is here is due to Ledgers death and performance, and that its the 'cool', trendy pick. Its a 4 star movie in a 5 star world.
    I'm sorry, but I didn't buy into the early hype of the movie, so don't assume this for everybody. I'm not at all a Batman fan outside of these movies (if anyone recalls, it took me months to entire the TDK thread because I didn't know that "The Dark Knight" was one of Batman's nicknames). I always knew that Two-Face was a villain of somebody's, but never knew that it was a man originally named Harvey Dent, and while Batman would have been my first guess I never knew for sure.

    As for Ledger, I didn't know the guy too much. I knew that he was in Brokeback Mountain, I saw him in A Knight's Tale and 10 Things I Hate About You, but again, I had no feel for his death other than my initial interpretation of it being a suicide.

    Again, I didn't buy into the hype like everyone else did. Before this movie, Christopher Nolan was already my favorite director (and IMO this is his worst directed movie of the five of his that I have seen) and Christian Bale was already my favorite actor. Combine that with how great Batman Begins was and the epic performance of Heath Ledger (again, didn't care before the movie, but I was floored after), I nearly shat myself at how great the movie was.

    If I wanted to be "cool," I would love movies like Terminator, Pulp Fiction, Star Wars (speaking of which), and The Godfather. Sorry, there's nothing about these that make me think anything else about them other than they're simply "good" movies. I think The Godfather is possibly the best made movie in the 20th century, but I don't really like it that much.

    So you can go on and assume what you must about people's views towards this movie, but IMO this movie would get 15/10 if Ledger were still alive (because it would work great for a sequel), so IMO his death hindered the rating of this movie for me. I don't know why people would like a movie more/go see a movie more because somebody died, but I would understand people hoping for a Posthumous award for him (not saying he'd deserve it necessarily, just that people would hope this is one's last chance and that they can prosper in the end).

    Anyway, The Dark Knight is my favorite movie of all time. Preceding that was Lucky Number Slevin, then Saw, then Spider-Man 2, then Ocean's Eleven, then The Matrix... you see? I don't necessarily have my favorite movie as the "coolest" thing around (sometimes more than others), and I definitely won't let somebody talk me down into thinking otherwise about a movie. Say what you will, but know that you're not speaking for everybody in this poll.
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    • yamabushi
      MVP
      • Feb 2006
      • 1265

      #17
      Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

      Originally posted by Blzer
      ......................and I definitely won't let somebody talk me down into thinking otherwise about a movie. Say what you will, but know that you're not speaking for everybody in this poll.
      Never said I was speaking for everybody.

      But sorry, if this was made 10 yrs ago and Ledger was still alive it wouldnt be nearly as fawned over.
      Originally posted by Alexis de Tocqueville
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      • mgoblue678
        MVP
        • Jul 2008
        • 3371

        #18
        Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

        Originally posted by yamabushi
        Ill have to beg to differ.
        Bales asthmatic batman whisper.<o></o>
        Chicago for Gotham city.<o></o>
        The Batman Forever era two-face make-up, in fact anything to do with 2-face.<o></o>
        The plot contrivances - Joker and his LD henchmen fill a hospital with enough gas and dynamite to blow it up and no one notices. The dues-ex-machina bat-radar.<o></o>
        Nolans inability to direct a great action scene. <o></o>
        None of these are top notch.<o></o>
        Ok let me see if I can adress these.

        1. I don't understand why everybody complains about his voice. You have to look at the fact that Nolan is going with a more realistic approach so disguising your voice when talking to people is actually quite smart unlike the Spider-man movies where we were supposed to believe people who knew Peter Parker didn't realize it was the same person even though his voice was the same.

        2. Once again he was going for a more realistic approach, so he had to make the setting seem like a real city.

        3. WTF are talking about for this one. The way they made the burned side of his face was completely different than Batman Begins. They used makeup for Tommy Lee Jones, they used a CGI image for this one. They look completely different. Two face's face was actually pretty cool looking. Also his character added alot to movie. It was very interesting to see a character to go from good to a revenge fueled villian.

        4. It is a movie stop nitpicking so much. Nolan may be going for a realistic tone but that doesn't mean everything has to be perfectly realistic. It is not a documentary after all.

        5. Once again nitpicking and I thought that was actually pretty cool.

        6. I will agree the fighting could have been better but they were not bad by any means. Also the chase sequence was a great action sequence. I don't see how you could think otherwise.

        When I was refering to top-knotch I meant more in a general way. Bottom line is every movie has flaws in it if you look close enough. You seem like one of those people more interested in looking flaws in "hyped" movies than actually enjoying it.
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        • ExtremeGamer
          Extra Life 11/3/18
          • Jul 2002
          • 35299

          #19
          Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

          Come on, you have to pick Empire, TDK has too much edge enhancement and DNR

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          • yamabushi
            MVP
            • Feb 2006
            • 1265

            #20
            Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

            Originally posted by mgoblue678
            Ok let me see if I can adress these.

            1. I don't understand why everybody complains about his voice. You have to look at the fact that Nolan is going with a more realistic approach so disguising your voice when talking to people is actually quite smart unlike the Spider-man movies where we were supposed to believe people who knew Peter Parker didn't realize it was the same person even though his voice was the same.
            Its annoying thats why people complain.

            2. Once again he was going for a more realistic approach, so he had to make the setting seem like a real city.
            As opposed to 'Begins'? Make a realistic Gotham. But dont tell me your movies set in NYC and I see the Eiffiel Tower in the background. thats bush league.

            3. WTF are talking about for this one. The way they made the burned side of his face was completely different than Batman Begins. They used makeup for Tommy Lee Jones, they used a CGI image for this one. They look completely different. Two face's face was actually pretty cool looking. Also his character added alot to movie. It was very interesting to see a character to go from good to a revenge fueled villian.
            They Look different but the effect is the same, goofy. And what happened to the 'realism'?

            4. It is a movie stop nitpicking so much. Nolan may be going for a realistic tone but that doesn't mean everything has to be perfectly realistic. It is not a documentary after all. Weak ploting is weak ploting no matter the genre.

            5. Once again nitpicking and I thought that was actually pretty cool. Cool or not; its still a dues-ex-machina.

            6. I will agree the fighting could have been better but they were not bad by any means. Also the chase sequence was a great action sequence. I don't see how you could think otherwise. Ive seen a 100s of car chases and 1000s of fight scenes. Nothing in DK is at all memorable.

            When I was refering to top-knotch I meant more in a general way. Bottom line is every movie has flaws in it if you look close enough. You seem like one of those people more interested in looking flaws in "hyped" movies than actually enjoying it.
            Sorry, your wrong. I went in wanting to love this movie. I truly enjoyed 'Begins' and was hoping Nolan would improve on what he started. But he didnt. The flaws I point to stood out like sore thumbs in the theater on the 1st viewing.
            Last edited by yamabushi; 01-27-2009, 02:28 PM.
            Originally posted by Alexis de Tocqueville
            The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

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            • Blzer
              Resident film pundit
              • Mar 2004
              • 42515

              #21
              Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

              Originally posted by yamabushi
              Never said I was speaking for everybody.

              But sorry, if this was made 10 yrs ago and Ledger was still alive it wouldnt be nearly as fawned over.
              Again, I'm not speaking for everybody else either. Assuming it were the exact same movie (including IMAX sequences, if you will) and Ledger were still alive, perhaps not everybody would acclaim it as highly as it is now. However, I would, and it would still be my favorite movie (assuming Batman Begins still preceded it).

              Originally posted by ExtremeGamer
              Come on, you have to pick Empire, TDK has too much edge enhancement and DNR
              And that's the truth!
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              • Skerik
                Living in this tube
                • Mar 2004
                • 5215

                #22
                Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                Originally posted by nyisles16
                No - I think Heath Ledger's "Joker" acting beat anything that Ford, Fisher, or Hamil did in the ESB movie.
                I feel like you're kind of missing the point of Star Wars if you're watching it for the acting.

                I hear Ryan Gosling's performance in the Notebook was really good. You might even like that more than the Dark Knight!
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                • Kelverin
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 1479

                  #23
                  Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                  Originally posted by daflyboys
                  ESB clearly the best of the 3 original SW movies.
                  You must give me the name of your oculist. The first is best but both are better than TORDK
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                  • caseyd
                    D*d y** g*t th* m*m*?
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 2367

                    #24
                    Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                    As much as I like TDK, Empire for me. My favorite Star Wars movie by far.
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                    • Jistic
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 16405

                      #25
                      Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                      This is way closer than it should be.
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                      • Salhus
                        He can talk the talk
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 1799

                        #26
                        Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                        Originally posted by Skerik
                        I feel like you're kind of missing the point of Star Wars if you're watching it for the acting.

                        I hear Ryan Gosling's performance in the Notebook was really good. You might even like that more than the Dark Knight!
                        The quality of acting is one of the more important factors in a film.

                        Gosling's performance wasn't on the same level as Ledger's. Most, if not all, can agree with me on that

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                        • JayBee74
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 22989

                          #27
                          Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                          Dark Knight-the easiest pick of the tourney for me.

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                          • JohnnytheSkin
                            All Star
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 5914

                            #28
                            Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                            Jesus Christ folks...The Dark Knight as the best movie of all time!?

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                            • Blzer
                              Resident film pundit
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 42515

                              #29
                              Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                              Originally posted by JohnnytheSkin
                              Jesus Christ folks...The Dark Knight as the best movie of all time!?

                              Best movie of all time? Not even close, too many technical issues. My personal favorite movie of all time? Yes indeedy.

                              Not an exact analogy, but were the Philadelphia Phillies the best team in the MLB last year? No, but they happened to take the World Series trophy home with them. The Dark Knight are the Philadelphia Phillies of cinema, that is all.
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                              • Rocky
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 6896

                                #30
                                Re: Sweet 16! OS Movie Madness DARK KNIGHT v EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

                                Upset alert!!!!
                                "Maybe I can't win. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that."
                                -Rocky Balboa

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