SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

[42]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

They should have stopped at 1. One by itself was a masterpiece.
Good riddance.

The first ones usually are but when the money rolls in, why stop there?

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

Point is, I'm glad the series is dead. Been milked for all it's worth, let it die.

The people have spoken as well, for it's debut on Friday, it only beat Paranormal Activity's numbers by 3 million, and PA2 has been out a week already. People were sick of the Saw movies after 4.

Good riddance.

Frankly there's no reason for the Saw franchise to end from a financial point of view. Saw 7 had an opening weekend of roughly 24 million (and that's just in the US). It doesn't even take 20 million to make a Saw film. Every single Saw film has made money for the Studio and Saw 7 continues this streak.

I haven't watched Saw 7 yet, but I have enjoyed every one except for 5.

I think the Saw series is one of the best "horror" franchises of all-time.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

They should have stopped at 1. One by itself was a masterpiece. Ever since, it got silly and stupid, and the story? LOL It's been dragged out just to keep making movies. Horror films don't need a story, it's the pure horror itself which carries it, unfortunately too many writers, directors, studios are greedy and drag it out. Ruined Nightmare on Elm Street the same way, first one is brilliant, 2 thru whatever number they ended on were all God awful.

Let's look at the Saw history. One was great. Two moved the overall story about 2 feet. Three, ugh, I don't even remember it. Four, okay, maybe this was a bad idea. Five was ridiculous, and six has to be ranked up there along with Halloween 3 in the realm of terrible horror films.

Point is, I'm glad the series is dead. Been milked for all it's worth, let it die.

The people have spoken as well, for it's debut on Friday, it only beat Paranormal Activity's numbers by 3 million, and PA2 has been out a week already. People were sick of the Saw movies after 4.

Good riddance.

I think that SAW I - III were really well done and I was ok with this as a trilogy. Did we really need 4-7? Granted I have enjoyed every single movie and VI was sort of my least favorite, I hope that this series is truly done with after this seventh installment...........no need for anymore.

[DickDalewood]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

The first ones usually are but when the money rolls in, why stop there?

Yup. Would it be "nice" to stop after the first? Of course... but this is also about money, and they made a LOT of it. Can't blame them for that.

[Blzer]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

Yup. Would it be "nice" to stop after the first? Of course... but this is also about money, and they made a LOT of it. Can't blame them for that.

There was actually complete intent to stop after the first one. At least, for the time being. They came out with an animated comic book feature called Saw: Rebirth and that was to be it. Then Darren Lynn Bousman submitted an original script called The Desperate, but producers would turn it down because "it was too close to a movie called Saw at Sundance." Then the late Gregg Hoffman nabbed his script after Saw came out and brought in audiences, and he said that they could turn it around enough to make a Saw II.

After Saw II, they needed to conclude the trilogy. Mark Burg, however, wanted to break the trilogy. That's where Saw IV, Saw V, Saw VI, and Saw 3D came in.

This could have easily stopped at a standalone film or a trilogy, but alas it never did.

[tehova]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

Saw (no pun) em all. I forget they are even coming out until halloween rolls around then im like... ooooooh yea, Saw... I'll watch.


I found myself not caring about the traps or any of that, i was really only concerned with the completion of the story. Which im sure is weird for the saw franchise

[Dog]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

I found myself not caring about the traps or any of that, i was really only concerned with the completion of the story. Which im sure is weird for the saw franchise

I am the same way. Saw blows my mind

[Blzer]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

I found myself not caring about the traps or any of that, i was really only concerned with the completion of the story. Which im sure is weird for the saw franchise

What's unfortunate is they only focus on completion for about three minutes of the movie. The rest of it is "freshish" material instead of closing up what else was open.

[legendkiller5]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

Watched it the other night.

Obviously, any fan of Saw could probably have predicted the outcome. I thought 'where' the movie ended was a nice touch, thought. The ending felt rushed imo and the traps weren't as creative as past iterations of the movie.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

We got a chance over the weekend to see this finally and I am left a tad bit speechless. As much as the movie was not bad, I am happy that this franchise is over with for now. I say that because ***cough*** Scream 4 ***cough*** was to end with the third one and now we have another one on the way. In many ways I am glad that this final film circles around back to the first film in so many ways, but there were many questions left unanswered and a few new plot holes were created in the process.

Spoiler

If Dr. Gordon began working with Jigsaw after Jigsaw helped him get out.........why in the hell was there a flashback in one of the films where Amanda and Dr. Gordon fight it out as Gordon is making his way out of that tunnel? It is like Amanda vanished off the face of the SAW world.

Hoffman is suspected of working with Jigsaw and then Gibson finds out that he is, why wasn't the entire police force not notified? How could Hoffman walk into a police station and take out everybody in his path? I think these people are so stupid as cops. LOL!

I found this story in so many ways to parallel the same exact story as in the third film. This guy that lied about surviving is going from room to room trying to save everyone, so he can ultimately save his loved one. I felt that this lacked originality as we saw the same in the third film. My question is that why was this guy left till the end to kill since he lied about being a survivor? When John was at the autograph signing, he looked healthy, wouldn't this guy have been one of his first targets?

Then at the end, Dr. Gordon takes out Hoffman which is fine and dandy which I expected Gordon to be involved. Who were the other two with him and did I miss something? I feel like this is the end of John's game with his wife dropping off the final packet to Gordon as instructed since she knew that Hoffman was on the verge of killing her.

I did feel like the traps were a bit overboard this time in quantity, to the point where I was like not yet another one within minutes. LOL!

Why do I feel like this franchise is not yet done with and in a few years yet another SAW will be made?

Maybe Blzer you have more insight on my questions as I have not had a chance to check other boards yet.

[Blzer]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

We got a chance over the weekend to see this finally and I am left a tad bit speechless. As much as the movie was not bad, I am happy that this franchise is over with for now. I say that because ***cough*** Scream 4 ***cough*** was to end with the third one and now we have another one on the way. In many ways I am glad that this final film circles around back to the first film in so many ways, but there were many questions left unanswered and a few new plot holes were created in the process.

Spoiler

If Dr. Gordon began working with Jigsaw after Jigsaw helped him get out.........why in the hell was there a flashback in one of the films where Amanda and Dr. Gordon fight it out as Gordon is making his way out of that tunnel? It is like Amanda vanished off the face of the SAW world.

Hoffman is suspected of working with Jigsaw and then Gibson finds out that he is, why wasn't the entire police force not notified? How could Hoffman walk into a police station and take out everybody in his path? I think these people are so stupid as cops. LOL!

I found this story in so many ways to parallel the same exact story as in the third film. This guy that lied about surviving is going from room to room trying to save everyone, so he can ultimately save his loved one. I felt that this lacked originality as we saw the same in the third film. My question is that why was this guy left till the end to kill since he lied about being a survivor? When John was at the autograph signing, he looked healthy, wouldn't this guy have been one of his first targets?

Then at the end, Dr. Gordon takes out Hoffman which is fine and dandy which I expected Gordon to be involved. Who were the other two with him and did I miss something? I feel like this is the end of John's game with his wife dropping off the final packet to Gordon as instructed since she knew that Hoffman was on the verge of killing her.

I did feel like the traps were a bit overboard this time in quantity, to the point where I was like not yet another one within minutes. LOL!

Why do I feel like this franchise is not yet done with and in a few years yet another SAW will be made?

Maybe Blzer you have more insight on my questions as I have not had a chance to check other boards yet.

I'll answer yours one-by-one:

Spoiler

If Dr. Gordon began working with Jigsaw after Jigsaw helped him get out.........why in the hell was there a flashback in one of the films where Amanda and Dr. Gordon fight it out as Gordon is making his way out of that tunnel? It is like Amanda vanished off the face of the SAW world.

That was not Lawrence Gordon, that was Eric Matthews. We never knew of Lawrence's fate until this movie.

Hoffman is suspected of working with Jigsaw and then Gibson finds out that he is, why wasn't the entire police force not notified? How could Hoffman walk into a police station and take out everybody in his path? I think these people are so stupid as cops. LOL!

I don't think Hoffman was ever largely suspected. Yes, Strahm knew as did Erickson and Perez, but all of them were eliminated (and Perez apparently bluffed when she threatened that "everyone knew," probably so Hoffman would be watching his own back all of the time in paranoia, though that plot point never really showed up). The only remaining person who knew was Jill, who revealed it to Gibson.

As for him "showing up," this was actually my favorite twist in the movie. Hoffman created a diversion with that bomb at the junkyard site so he could remove a corpse and put himself in one of the body bags as it was delivered to Heffner at the morgue. In a way, they brought him in unknowingly. The cops were kind of dumb in this movie though and the multiple killings following were unoriginal in the sense that they were all the same (except for the gunshot behind the two-way mirror).

I found this story in so many ways to parallel the same exact story as in the third film. This guy that lied about surviving is going from room to room trying to save everyone, so he can ultimately save his loved one. I felt that this lacked originality as we saw the same in the third film. My question is that why was this guy left till the end to kill since he lied about being a survivor? When John was at the autograph signing, he looked healthy, wouldn't this guy have been one of his first targets?

I can't answer this one, I can only agree with you. The Bobby Dagen storyline is only slightly interesting, but the game makes zero sense at all. You're right, it's exactly like Saw III. Hell, it's exactly like Saw IV too. Oh wait, it's exactly like Saw VI. Every one of them has a "series of tests," and this plot point has gotten very old. It was fresh in Saw III, but afterward we got the same old thing of walking from room to room, seeing writing on walls in red, and just watching multiple deaths happen. It got very tiresome, and not only that but his story had absolutely no Jigsaw background in the sense that it revealed more about John's past itself. William's game served this purpose very well, Bobby's didn't. For this to be the final chapter in the series and for Tobin Bell to only have one scene of major screen time which reveals nothing more about his character, it's pretty sad.

Then at the end, Dr. Gordon takes out Hoffman which is fine and dandy which I expected Gordon to be involved. Who were the other two with him and did I miss something? I feel like this is the end of John's game with his wife dropping off the final packet to Gordon as instructed since she knew that Hoffman was on the verge of killing her.

John used the RBT 2.0 to provide a way out for Jill, but if things didn't go to plan then he anticipated Hoffman would once again pursue her. As a result, he asked in kind for Lawrence to complete the puzzle and eradicate the immoral who cannot eradicate the immoralities within themselves. Who were the other two pig masks? It might not be answered, but the idea is that there was a cult group following of survivors (helmed by Bobby after some time) who believed in the legacy strongly enough to take action as John would.

It could have been anyone sitting in that circle, but seeing how Hoffman won enough one-on-one battles, it took three of them to collaboratively take him down. In a way, it would almost seem strange if Lawrence was the only one there. I mean Jill, Strahm, Rigg, John, Amanda, Gibson, Perez, Rogers, numerous police officers, a broken hand, a ripped mouth, and a pen through his neck didn't stop him, but a slightly bent out of shape crippled doctor did? It just makes more sense that some others tagged along, showing that Lawrence wasn't really the only one in this.

I did feel like the traps were a bit overboard this time in quantity, to the point where I was like not yet another one within minutes. LOL!

I don't know if you read my Saw VII script (which I started and completed literally days after Saw VI came out), but that was one thing I wanted to tackle in a much different fashion. Basically, Hoffman isn't an engineer and the time it takes to build these things is damn near impossible to achieve, so why do it like this? I mean, can we literally expect anyone to be able to construct all of this stuff, let alone scout and observe people, kidnap them, and make sure it all goes to plan within what, two years of time? Shoot, even hundreds of crew members at LGF took seven years to come up with all of this stuff, so it just doesn't make sense to do it that way. If you look around on HOJ you'll find my rough script (it's in my signature) and you'll see how I worked things out there. In the end there just aren't that many games to play, let alone those in the present... but to make it plausible, that's what needed to happen. I found myself rolling my eyes at how much stuff has been put together, and I mean even since Saw III. It just doesn't make sense.

Why do I feel like this franchise is not yet done with and in a few years yet another SAW will be made?

You're not the only one. I just wish they could redo Saw VII. There is so much stuff that could have been put to good use without getting this far into the storyline for another sequel, other ways to utilize Hoffman and explain Lawrence better, etc. Basically, we're at the exact same point that we were at with Saw VI with the exception of Hoffman's face not being ripped out in the RBT 2.0 trap, and that's where the problem lies. Saw VII should have been an adaptation, not a parallel.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

I placed my comments underneath.

I'll answer yours one-by-one:

Spoiler

That was not Lawrence Gordon, that was Eric Matthews. We never knew of Lawrence's fate until this movie.

Ok, now I remember.........you would think after several viewings that I would remember all this. Every year my wife and I would sit down and watch through each film leading up to theatrical release for SAW, but didn't do that this year.

If Gordon was working with Jigsaw, I wonder if there was any interaction between Amanda and Gordon? Amanda was so obsessed with John, that there is no way that she would have known of Hoffman's and Gordon's involvement and not freak out at him.


I don't think Hoffman was ever largely suspected. Yes, Strahm knew as did Erickson and Perez, but all of them were eliminated (and Perez apparently bluffed when she threatened that "everyone knew," probably so Hoffman would be watching his own back all of the time in paranoia, though that plot point never really showed up). The only remaining person who knew was Jill, who revealed it to Gibson.

As for him "showing up," this was actually my favorite twist in the movie. Hoffman created a diversion with that bomb at the junkyard site so he could remove a corpse and put himself in one of the body bags as it was delivered to Heffner at the morgue. In a way, they brought him in unknowingly. The cops were kind of dumb in this movie though and the multiple killings following were unoriginal in the sense that they were all the same (except for the gunshot behind the two-way mirror).

I agree that the twist with him getting into the body bag was well done. These cops were so stupid not to even notice the 2 way mirror, let alone the room behind that mirror. When we first saw that 2 way mirror I knew something was up with that room.


I can't answer this one, I can only agree with you. The Bobby Dagen storyline is only slightly interesting, but the game makes zero sense at all. You're right, it's exactly like Saw III. Hell, it's exactly like Saw IV too. Oh wait, it's exactly like Saw VI. Every one of them has a "series of tests," and this plot point has gotten very old. It was fresh in Saw III, but afterward we got the same old thing of walking from room to room, seeing writing on walls in red, and just watching multiple deaths happen. It got very tiresome, and not only that but his story had absolutely no Jigsaw background in the sense that it revealed more about John's past itself. William's game served this purpose very well, Bobby's didn't. For this to be the final chapter in the series and for Tobin Bell to only have one scene of major screen time which reveals nothing more about his character, it's pretty sad.

Bobby's story to me felt so tacked on just for the mere fact that this looks to happen way too early in the time line. So why would Jigsaw allow this guy to parade around making money off false claims for so long? I would think that this guy would have been one of his first victims.

To me this was like a cut and paste story with Jeff's into Bobby's. If this was to be the final SAW, they could have done something even more to make us walk away saying this was a damn good finale.

It was upsetting to see Tobin Bell only have 1 major scene. I guess they kept to their word that Jigsaw is human and he was not coming back after being killed on the table. So in that respect, I have to commend them for that.



John used the RBT 2.0 to provide a way out for Jill, but if things didn't go to plan then he anticipated Hoffman would once again pursue her. As a result, he asked in kind for Lawrence to complete the puzzle and eradicate the immoral who cannot eradicate the immoralities within themselves. Who were the other two pig masks? It might not be answered, but the idea is that there was a cult group following of survivors (helmed by Bobby after some time) who believed in the legacy strongly enough to take action as John would.

It could have been anyone sitting in that circle, but seeing how Hoffman won enough one-on-one battles, it took three of them to collaboratively take him down. In a way, it would almost seem strange if Lawrence was the only one there. I mean Jill, Strahm, Rigg, John, Amanda, Gibson, Perez, Rogers, numerous police officers, a broken hand, a ripped mouth, and a pen through his neck didn't stop him, but a slightly bent out of shape crippled doctor did? It just makes more sense that some others tagged along, showing that Lawrence wasn't really the only one in this.

Hoffman is one tough SOB and I do not think that Gordon could have taken him on all by himself, so I understand the other two with him. Too bad they didn't explain who they were and why they were helping Gordon. It fears me into believing that Gordon could become the new Jigsaw killer, unless like you said, he was doing John a favor finishing up the puzzle.


I don't know if you read my Saw VII script (which I started and completed literally days after Saw VI came out), but that was one thing I wanted to tackle in a much different fashion. Basically, Hoffman isn't an engineer and the time it takes to build these things is damn near impossible to achieve, so why do it like this? I mean, can we literally expect anyone to be able to construct all of this stuff, let alone scout and observe people, kidnap them, and make sure it all goes to plan within what, two years of time? Shoot, even hundreds of crew members at LGF took seven years to come up with all of this stuff, so it just doesn't make sense to do it that way. If you look around on HOJ you'll find my rough script (it's in my signature) and you'll see how I worked things out there. In the end there just aren't that many games to play, let alone those in the present... but to make it plausible, that's what needed to happen. I found myself rolling my eyes at how much stuff has been put together, and I mean even since Saw III. It just doesn't make sense.

Yup, I had read your script when you first published it.........but its been almost a year, don't remember too much from it. I can look past someone constructing most of this stuff, but I can see where you say he is not an engineer........but for movie's sake, I looked past it.


You're not the only one. I just wish they could redo Saw VII. There is so much stuff that could have been put to good use without getting this far into the storyline for another sequel, other ways to utilize Hoffman and explain Lawrence better, etc. Basically, we're at the exact same point that we were at with Saw VI with the exception of Hoffman's face not being ripped out in the RBT 2.0 trap, and that's where the problem lies. Saw VII should have been an adaptation, not a parallel.

The sad thing is that everyone behind this SAW project has gotten so good at just tacking on story after story, I wouldn't be surprised if we did get a SAW VIII in a few years time. This movie alone has made them a lot of money surpassing Friday the 13th franchise. The good thing though is that this series has not turned to crap like the later Friday the 13th films. With each SAW film I was left intrigued where the story would take us next. SAW VII should have tied everything up nicely with no potholes or questions. Now it leaves us asking more questions. This might be SAW VII (3D) The Final Chapter, but maybe they are looking at it as John's final chapter......Gordon will be the next chapter.

Another question now that I'm thinking about it. Why did Gordon help John out after everything he endured and almost lost his family? Was his family again in some kind of trouble or did he feel bad for what he had done and it took John to open his eyes?

I don't know if I liked that short cameo of Gordon during the meeting that Bobby was conducting. It just seemed so weird and off.

[Blzer]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

I guess as far as your very last question goes, you can read those bits and pieces of my script and see for yourself why I could assume things went down the way they did.

[CaptainZombie]

Re: SAW VII (3D) Discussion - Jigsaw

I guess as far as your very last question goes, you can read those bits and pieces of my script and see for yourself why I could assume things went down the way they did.

Blzer, oh man, your going to make me re-read your script? LOL! How about if you summarize your thoughts and we can keep this discussion going a bit. It's fun analyzing and talking about this franchise. I might start watching these again over the next week to see if there is anything that I might have missed with what we know in VII.