Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Yes, she killed evil people. Never innocents.


In fact, Dany suffered over decisions that included innocents. She plotted in ways that would keep innocent people alive.


She nearly didn't take Quarth because she feared what would happen to the slaves.


Dany IMPRISONED HER DRAGONS BECAUSE THEY KILLED A LITTLE GIRL.


But, no, this is justified. Instead of going after Cersie, Dany kills innocent people because she's mad.


Nah. Don't defend this garbage.

That’s true she never had done that before two of her Dragons she considers children died, her closest people die or betray her and then knowing that her claim to the throne was a lie the entire time.

Her whole life she was told stories of this city betrayed her and her family.

She got so much love from all the previous cities she conquered, barely anyone in Westeros.

I guess I don’t see that it’s far off character.

I don’t think they picked Dany to be the villain all of a sudden, GRMM written her to be the villain from the beginning.

Maybe they could have given a better sequence on the moment she turned mad instead of bells triggering it and her face gets all nut job. For example had secret scorpions in the city that set her off



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[Rocky]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I had issues with the episode too (the Dorthraki are back...did the WW's even do anything significant?) but Dany's turn wasn't one of them.

It was supposed to be a shocker and come out of left field a little. I think they did as reasonably well of a job as they could have without completely foreshadowing it.

Jon Snow pretty much abandoning her as a lover was the last straw. At this point, she can't seperate Jon Snow fron Aegon Targaryen. Fast forward to the "Bells" scene and everything just came to ahead. Nearly everybody in Westeros has betrayed her at some point, is dead, or is someone she doesn't trust....her brother, Jorah, Tryion, Varys, Cersei, and finally Jon Snow. The bells, seeing Kings Landing in full and the fact that she is already has issues through heredity and I can see why she snapped.

Of course, they didn't give the viewer any of this insight though.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

They established that they lost half their army in the Battle of Winterfell. There were scenes of Dothraki riding back to the main lines. So yes, there were Dothraki that survived that initial charge.


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[kingkilla56]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Sansa's weird hatred of Dany from day one has come to full fruition. It didnt make sense for Sansa to STILL hate Dany after Dany sacrificed her armies and defended the north from the greatest threat the world has ever known; proving her loyalty, and sincerity in wanting the north as allies.

But she couldnt, because Sansa's true role this year has been to signal the audience that something isnt right with this Queen. A woman we've been following for 9 years btw.

Then Arya started not liking her. Jon was too dumbfounded to care. His job this year has been to look cool, make no real decisions, and coast on by to the throne, as Dany melts down in what the writers believe is some epic Shakespearean tragedy. He refused to give up the D, and now Dany is a mad woman. Wow Kit Harrington, youre so damn cool!


What a cluster man.

I do want to give a shoutout to the directors tho. Theyve been working magic with the material. Same for the actors (can you believe how they used Lena Headey this season? HOLY CRAP what a waste!)

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Yea I wasn't a fan of how they did Brienne. It was just pointless. Jamie either.

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[DamnYanks2]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

But unlike others I loved what they did with Dany. Yes she is kind and has a good heart. But there is only so much she can take.

I saw that coming a mile away.

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[CMH]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

That’s true she never had done that before two of her Dragons she considers children died, her closest people die or betray her and then knowing that her claim to the throne was a lie the entire time.

Her whole life she was told stories of this city betrayed her and her family.

She got so much love from all the previous cities she conquered, barely anyone in Westeros.

I guess I don’t see that it’s far off character.

I don’t think they picked Dany to be the villain all of a sudden, GRMM written her to be the villain from the beginning.

Maybe they could have given a better sequence on the moment she turned mad instead of bells triggering it and her face gets all nut job. For example had secret scorpions in the city that set her off



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I have no problem with Dany being the bad guy. It's more of how they turned her into the bad guy. I don't personally feel there were enough signs especially when you can point to many instances she tried to do good.


Then when you consider the stakes, it's odd that these are the things that eventually turned her. She always knew no one in Westeros loved her. It's in the first season or second. I can't recall.



Also, she had no real threat just yet. She knew that people knew Jon was the true heir, but no one as of yet had seriously challenged her on it. No one had said, "So Jon is going to be the King okay?"



She's acting out of assumption which to me doesn't warrant mass destruction and murder of innocents.


As Jeremy mentioned, I think it's much more believable if Dany is put into a situation where she starts to see her actual power dissolve. She should have taken the throne and seen people challenge her. She should have questioned why no one loves her even after she saved them from Cersei.


Then, as she questions these things, we see her losing her sanity. "Since they cannot love me for saving them, I will have them fear me for burning them." Now when she kills innocents we can say yeah I get it. She's not happy with them.


But none of that is possible in a rushed season.

[CMH]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Idk man. I just don't see how you can make zombies interesting. I've mentioned it way back, but you have a pretty popular show out there (not sure if it still is. Stopped watching it lol) in a world full of zombies, and the biggest threat in that show has always been humans. Humans are interesting. Zombies are not. You can empathize or hate human beings. Zombies are a bit harder to connect with or care for. Lol

The reason The Walking Dead turned to crap is for many of the reasons loads of fans are unhappy with Game of Thrones the past two seasons.


Plot armor.


The writers constantly put the characters in impossible situations and had them get away without issue. So it became numb. Zombies stopped being scary or threatening when we knew our beloved characters wouldn't die to them.


Then when they wanted a character to die, it was because of some stupid, contrived reason or action that was completely out of character especially considering these are the people that have survived a zombie invasion. You would think they would be smarter.




Also both shows were in very different areas. TWD had the zombies already there. These people survived it. So the show had no choice but to be about humans interacting with humans because they knew how to stop the zombies.


GoT was us waiting for the threat of zombies. No one knew how to stop them. They were supposed to be far superior to TWD zombies and the humans in GoT don't even have guns! But then it was like, "nah, it's not that bad because the leaders just stand around the water cooler chatting instead of working"

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I have no problem with Dany being the bad guy. It's more of how they turned her into the bad guy. I don't personally feel there were enough signs especially when you can point to many instances she tried to do good.


Then when you consider the stakes, it's odd that these are the things that eventually turned her. She always knew no one in Westeros loved her. It's in the first season or second. I can't recall.



Also, she had no real threat just yet. She knew that people knew Jon was the true heir, but no one as of yet had seriously challenged her on it. No one had said, "So Jon is going to be the King okay?"



She's acting out of assumption which to me doesn't warrant mass destruction and murder of innocents.


As Jeremy mentioned, I think it's much more believable if Dany is put into a situation where she starts to see her actual power dissolve. She should have taken the throne and seen people challenge her. She should have questioned why no one loves her even after she saved them from Cersei.


Then, as she questions these things, we see her losing her sanity. "Since they cannot love me for saving them, I will have them fear me for burning them." Now when she kills innocents we can say yeah I get it. She's not happy with them.


But none of that is possible in a rushed season.

See I disagree. I think there was definitely enough for material they showed us for her to turn. She's dealing with a heavy heart. Losing Sir Jorah. She lost another one of her children, Masandre, she's not Dany at this moment. She's angry and she doesn't have control of her emotions like Jon.

She's ready to finish this. When you have a heavy heart. You dont always deal with a rational mind. Dany isnt the breaker of chains anymore she's just ****ing done. And probably in the back of her head knows that Jon and her cannot coexist either.

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[CMH]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

What did Tyrion really have to gain by snitching on Varys and I wonder where all of those letters he wrote went? Why would Dany ever be surprised that the former "Master of Whisperers" in Kings Landing is carrying on like that behind her back? Varys was a snake most of the series, but I liked his character.

He was definitely dishing the dirt because he knew his time was coming.

I assume the letters got out. And now everyone in Westeros will know the truth.


Which would have been a great catalyst for Dany turning into a vengeful firestarter. Her on the throne and then suddenly everyone from the corners of Westeros is telling her she needs to go and has no right to the throne.


That would and should start a war. Now we can see Dany kill innocent people.





Actually, now that I think about it, I think the only reason the writers had Dany kill all of those innocents is so Tyrion can turn on her. Another plot device just to get to a finale that has us all asking: Who shot Mr. Burns?

[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I don't agree with some of you about Danys character. I will agree that getting 10 episodes would serve this season better. But Danys arc has BEEN going this route.

I may just have the benefit of binging and more of what's been going on with her is fresher in my head...some of these things were mentioned in an earlier post...

Spoiler

- Dany seeing her brother die with no remorse. Didn't try to stop it at all.
- Khal Drogos speech about taking Kings landing for her (he talks about rape and enslaving children lol). She almost seems turned on by it [emoji23]
- Her attitude towards a lot of the other men when she became Khaleesi
- Her ruthless ways of dealing with her enemies (hanging all of the slavers outside in slavers bay was particularly brutal)
- Her advisors questioning her decisions about said enemies
- One stood out in particular to me where some former slave that became her advisor went on his own to kill a slave master or someone because he thought this person needed to be punished (it was totally understandable lol). So because he didn't talk to Khaleesi first. She sentences him to death. Then right before his head is chopped off he's begging for his life and apologizing. And EVERY freed slave in the city was begging "Mysa" to let him go. Daario looks at her like "You sho bout this bruh?!"...sorry. Left on read. Head chopped off.
- Her trying to save the slave city's through diplomacy and love. Still no peace. The Harpy dudes killing a **** ton of people. Slaves wanting to go back to being slaves. Slavers not giving her any respect and return to take the city.
- Daario telling her that all rulers are butchers or meat
- Her murdering all of the Khalasar men
- The amount of times she says she will burn **** to take what's "hers"
- Lady Tyrell basically saying to her "Screw peace. That stuff is for p****s. You got dragons. The fuh?"
- Her execution of the Tarlys
- Then you have all the times she tells her advisors "screw your advice. I'ma do me"
- She had to be talked out of attacking Kingslanding repeatedly to save the lives of the innocent.
- Then you have the betrayal of multiple people throughout. Her brother. The lady she saved from being raped by the dothraki. The dothraki. Jorah. Freed slaves. Cersei in the fight against the WW. Jamie. Varys. Sansa. Tyrion. John.
- She sees the people of westeros don't give a damn about her. Which was something that was mentioned to her repeatedly before she even crossed the sea.
- She tried to listen to Tyrion. And all his well thought out strategies to take the crown backfired
- She tried diplomacy. And Cercei kills Missandei
- The SHEER AMOUNT OF TIMES HER FATHER WAS BROUGHT UP and her repeatedly saying "Dawg. That ain't me"
- Then to top it all off, she finds out she ain't even the true heir! Her whole destiny and the one thing she's wanted and been driven towards this entire show is a lie!
- She tries to get with John as one last grasp...he's all like "Naw bruh. You my aunt. Dats weird"...to which she replies "Let it be fear"

She became power hungry. The throne was the only thing that mattered to her. Like Smeagol and the ring. Lol

She freed the slaves. Yes. But that never was important to her as much as the throne was. Hell, when she left the slave cities, she did so only after using "fear" to keep control. Another sign.

And there are probably many more examples I can't think of at the moment. No way this was out of character. The writing was on the wall here [emoji23]

[CMH]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

See I disagree. I think there was definitely enough for material they showed us for her to turn. She's dealing with a heavy heart. Losing Sir Jorah. She lost another one of her children, Masandre, she's not Dany at this moment. She's angry and she doesn't have control of her emotions like Jon.

She's ready to finish this. When you have a heavy heart. You dont always deal with a rational mind. Dany isnt the breaker of chains anymore she's just ****ing done. And probably in the back of her head knows that Jon and her cannot coexist either.

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She killed Varys which makes sense to me. She should have gone after Jon next if that's how she feels.


Why keep Jon alive? He's the only reason she's so concerned about losing the throne. If he's dead, everyone will know two things:


1. You don't mess with the Dragon Queen
2. And we have no other choice because Jon is dead and read #1


If the argument is that she loves Jon and couldn't consider killing him, then that doesn't explain why she would kill innocent people who she has long claimed she also loves and wants to defend.


Her turn isn't so bad if she kills Cersei. Kill Cersei. Take the throne. Then have her deal with the fallout of everyone knowing the truth about Jon.


Instead, she won't get the chance to deal with the fallout of Jon's true heritage. Instead, the finale will be about trying to kill her because now she's a bad guy and she's mad. That feels so cheap. It ruins the impact of people finding out about Jon. It cheapens how emotional reaction to Jon backstabbing her.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

If she had consistently been that person, or had a steady descent into madness, people would be fine. She was still trying to save people 2 episodes ago and... Then she wins, hears bells, and snaps?

I just assumed there was some significance to bells in the Targaryen past that I had missed, like they rang the bells after they killed the Mad King or something. She heard them and snapped, but I guess they said after the episode that she just saw the red keep that had been taken from her family and decided to torch everything.

[CMH]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I don't agree with some of you about Danys character. I will agree that getting 10 episodes would serve this season better. But Danys arc has BEEN going this route.

I may just have the benefit of binging and more of what's been going on with her is fresher in my head...some of these things were mentioned in an earlier post...

Spoiler

- Dany seeing her brother die with no remorse. Didn't try to stop it at all.
- Khal Drogos speech about taking Kings landing for her (he talks about rape and enslaving children lol). She almost seems turned on by it [emoji23]
- Her attitude towards a lot of the other men when she became Khaleesi
- Her ruthless ways of dealing with her enemies
- Her advisors questioning her decisions about said enemies
- One stood out in particular to me where some former slave that became her advisor went on his own to kill a slave master or someone because he thought this person needed to be punished (it was totally understandable lol). So because he didn't talk to Khaleesi first. She sentences him to death. Then right before his head is chopped off he's begging for his life and apologizing. And EVERY freed slave in the city was begging "Mysa" to let him go. Daario looks at her like "You sho bout this bruh?!"...sorry. Left on read. Head chopped off.
- Her trying to save the slave city's through diplomacy and love. Still no peace. The Harpy dudes killing a **** ton of people. Slaves wanting to go back to being slaves. Slavers not giving her any respect and return to take the city.
- Daario telling her that all rulers are butchers or meat
- Her murdering all of the Khalasar men
- The amount of times she says she will burn **** to take what's "hers"
- Lady Tyrell basically saying to her "Screw peace. That stuff is for p****s. You got dragons. The fuh?"
- Her execution of the Tarlys
- Then you have all the times she tells her advisors "screw your advice. I'ma do me"
- She had to be talked out of attacking Kingslanding repeatedly to save the lives of the innocent.
- Then you have the betrayal of multiple people throughout. Her brother. The lady she saved from being raped by the dothraki. The dothraki. Jorah. Freed slaves. Cersei in the fight against the WW. Jamie. Varys. Sansa. Tyrion. John.
- She sees the people of westeros don't give a damn about her. Which was something that was mentioned to her repeatedly before she even crossed the sea.
- She tried to listen to Tyrion. And all his well thought out strategies to take the crown backfired
- She tried diplomacy. And Cercei kills Missandei
- The SHEER AMOUNT OF TIMES HER FATHER WAS BROUGHT UP and her repeatedly saying "Dawg. That ain't me"
- Then to top it all off, she finds out she ain't even the true heir! Her whole destiny and the one thing she's wanted and been driven towards this entire show is a lie!
- She tries to get with John as one last grasp...he's all like "Naw bruh. You my aunt. Dats weird"...to which she replies "Let it be fear"

She became power hungry. The throne was the only thing that mattered to her. Like Smeagol and the ring. Lol

She freed the slaves. Yes. But that never was important to her as much as the throne was. Hell, when she left the slave cities, she did so only after using "fear" to keep control. Another sign.

And there are probably many more examples I can't think of at the moment. No way this was out of character. The writing was on the wall here [emoji23]

Being power hungry doesn't equal killing innocent people.


Killing the sitting queen makes sense. Then she takes what she feels is hers. Killing people and destroying a city gets her no where.


All of the things you mentioned above don't explain her actions. They just explain that she's willing to kill bad people that don't want her to have power. Those innocent people had no opinion and didn't even care about those politics.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Dany is stuck in a rock and a hard place. She loves Jon but he doesnt love her back. She knows people want Jon to be king. She cant rule with love. It will not work. The north don't love her.

So she chooses Fear. It's hard for people to digest. It took Tyrion and Varys to beg her not to burn King's Landing and she did it anyway. She's changed.

Because now she believes the only way she can rule is through Fear. And she's right. If she's dead set on seizing the throne. That is the only way for her.

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