Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

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  • ExtremeGamer
    Extra Life 11/3/18
    • Jul 2002
    • 35299

    #16
    Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

    Originally posted by rudyjuly2
    I agree with Candyman. I don't see next gen doing anything special other than a graphical update. Sure the onus is on the game companies more but the development costs on games has increased tremendously over the years. Just thinking about a game costs you $50,000. The online costs also add a lot of money.

    The sheer cost of a next gen system will make it a very slow generation imo. I truly believe a system isn't accepted by the masses until it drops to $199 (or less) and that's quite a while off. Sure all the hardcore gamers run out and get a new system. Its not hard to sell 5 million units. It will be very hard to sell 50 million units this time around, particularly with the added competition. (Both PS1 and PS2 sold over 100 million).

    The other thing working against next gen is that people are still relatively happy with current gen. The PS2 is still outselling the 360. Those same people probably aren't rushing out to get a next gen system anytime soon. When I first saw Madden on the PS2, my PS1 days were over. I don't feel that way this time and I think a lot of other people feel the same. We're not rushing to get a new system and we certainly don't want to pay some of these high prices. Eventually we will all get a next gen machine but as long as they keep supporting the PS2 (which would be smart), I'm in no hurry to fork over $700-$800 in hardware, controllers, and games.
    I agree with that 100%, and if that is what he was getting across, then he's right, I took it differently than what he was saying.

    Next Gen is a bust IMO so far. And he's right, only the Wii offers true "next gen" experience. The PS3 has it's motion controller, but to me it's not anything different than say the power glove. The PS3 is basically an updated PS2. Sony had a DVD player in before, now it's a Blu Ray. But Sony taking away the rumble in the controller is a major step backwards to me.

    The 360...well, besides graphics, it's just an updated XBox. There's nothing exactly revolutionary in it.

    The Wii on the other hand is changing the way games are played, not only changing them, but turning them upside down. Will it catch on, who knows. I hope so. The fact that it's graphics are on par with an Xbox, isn't going to help it in our age now. Graphics are pretty to look at, but gameplay is what really runs this business. NBA Live is an example of that, shame the game itself is dog****.

    For me, the Wii will change gaming, it won't win, and will probably finish 3rd again. I don't think the graphics whores are going to latch on to it. Which will lead publishers away from it. But the DS has dominated the PSP, and the graphics aren't even close, so who knows.
    Last edited by ExtremeGamer; 11-03-2006, 02:03 PM.

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    • pk500
      All Star
      • Jul 2002
      • 8062

      #17
      Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

      Originally posted by GP Mercy
      I think next-gen is going to revolutionize the gaming world. These games are unreal.
      In what way, other than graphics? I'm curious.

      Take care,
      PK
      Xbox Live: pk4425

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      • Money99
        Hall Of Fame
        • Sep 2002
        • 12695

        #18
        Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

        Originally posted by ExtremeGamer
        I agree with that 100%, and if that is what he was getting across, then he's right, I took it differently than what he was saying.

        Next Gen is a bust IMO so far. And he's right, only the Wii offers true "next gen" experience. The PS3 has it's motion controller, but to me it's not anything different than say the power glove. The PS3 is basically an updated PS2. Sony had a DVD player in before, now it's a Blu Ray. But Sony taking away the rumble in the controller is a major step backwards to me.

        The 360...well, besides graphics, it's just an updated XBox. There's nothing exactly revolutionary in it.

        The Wii on the other hand is changing the way games are played, not only changing them, but turning them upside down. Will it catch on, who knows. I hope so. The fact that it's graphics are on par with an Xbox, isn't going to help it in our age now. Graphics are pretty to look at, but gameplay is what really runs this business. NBA Live is an example of that, shame the game itself is dog****.

        For me, the Wii will change gaming, it won't win, and will probably finish 3rd again. I don't think the graphics whores are going to latch on to it. Which will lead publishers away from it. But the DS has dominated the PSP, and the graphics aren't even close, so who knows.

        You might want to double check on how 'revolutionary' the Wii is going to be. An early review of Nintendo Wii tennis revealed that you actually don't control the movement of your player. The CPU does it. All your responsible for is swinging the racket. How fun is that?
        And many others are saying the response time is way off so far too.
        I don't hold any stock on the Wii doing anything extrodinary. This will only be another minor upgrade from Nintendo's previous console that will feature more Mario and Zelda games. If you're not into either, you probably won't buy this console.

        I bought a 360 just for NHL07. If that game wasn't as good as it is, I probably would have sold my Xbox for PS2 just for MLB The Show.
        And Xbox Live is probably the only thing prompting me to buy any of the new games coming out.
        Last edited by Money99; 11-03-2006, 02:16 PM.

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        • pk500
          All Star
          • Jul 2002
          • 8062

          #19
          Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

          Here's my problem with gaming hardware right now: The industry is becoming pretty mature, yet the price of the technology is increasing, not decreasing. That flies in the face of convention of nearly every other electronic product.

          Four years ago, a 20 GB iPod without video cost $400. Today, an 80 GB iPod with video costs $349.

          Five years ago, a decent-quality DVD player cost $200. Today, it costs $50.

          Five years ago, an 36-inch LCD HDTV cost $2,000. Today, it costs $1,200.

          The same with PC's, digital cameras, camcorders and so on.

          Yet five years ago, an Xbox that played games, DVD's and MP3 music files, with online play built in, cost $299. Today, an Xbox 360 with the same capabilities, with slicker interfaces and more multimedia options, costs $399.

          But in terms of GAMES, the Xbox and 360 do very little different outside of the Xbox Live environment. Yet the machine was $100 more expensive at launch than the Xbox was.

          The PS3 is an even more egregious violator. It's double the price of a PS2 at launch, with only Blu-Ray and a souped-up interface as the big, distinguishing difference in gaming.

          At what point will the curve reverse and consoles follow the trend of all other consumer electronics, that is become cheaper for the same or more features as the industry becomes more competitive and more robust?

          I just think there's something wrong with the next-gen gaming hardware model because the pricing conflicts with the norm of nearly every other consumer electronics product in a maturing genre. It's not like video game consoles just hit the market in 1997 -- they've been around for 25 years or so.

          There's more competition than ever in video gaming hardware, with three VERY viable next-gen console manufacturers who each also produce very alive current-gen systems, and two very competitive handheld manufacturers.

          Isn't that competition supposed to drive prices down instead of up? Instead, we're seeing prices for next-gen machinery anywhere from 50 to 100 percent higher than that of the last generation.

          That makes little sense to me.

          Take care,
          PK
          Last edited by pk500; 11-03-2006, 02:19 PM.
          Xbox Live: pk4425

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          • ExtremeGamer
            Extra Life 11/3/18
            • Jul 2002
            • 35299

            #20
            Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

            Originally posted by Money99
            You might want to double check on how 'revolutionary' the Wii is going to be. An early review of Nintendo Wii tennis revealed that you actually don't control the movement of your player. The CPU does it. All your responsible for is swinging the racket. How fun is that?
            And many others are saying the response time is way off so far too.
            I don't hold any stock on the Wii doing anything extrodinary. This will only be another minor upgrade from Nintendo's previous console that will feature more Mario and Zelda games. If you're not into either, you probably won't buy this console.

            I bought a 360 just for NHL07. If that game wasn't as good as it is, I probably would have sold my Xbox for PS2 just for MLB The Show.
            And Xbox Live is probably the only thing prompting me to buy any of the new games coming out.
            Wii Tennis is a tech demo, all of the Wii Sports games are. I think everyone is harping on the fact that "all you do is swing your racket" nonsense. Look at Madden, Zelda, Red Steel, WarioWare, etc.

            The thing for me, Nintendo is my childhood. I love the Mario games, I love the Zelda games, etc.

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            • Money99
              Hall Of Fame
              • Sep 2002
              • 12695

              #21
              Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

              I just had a thought. If you think about it, the console community is actually a lot luckier than the PC gamers. The PC gamers have to buy a new $300 video card every year just to play some stinking rehashed game.

              Not saying that what's going on in the console wars is right. I think it's gross that we're already getting early info on Microsoft's next console. I would hope that these new machines would have a life of over 5 years.

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              • Money99
                Hall Of Fame
                • Sep 2002
                • 12695

                #22
                Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                Originally posted by ExtremeGamer
                Wii Tennis is a tech demo, all of the Wii Sports games are. I think everyone is harping on the fact that "all you do is swing your racket" nonsense. Look at Madden, Zelda, Red Steel, WarioWare, etc.

                The thing for me, Nintendo is my childhood. I love the Mario games, I love the Zelda games, etc.

                Which is exactly my point. How revolutionary is a system that cranks out MArio Ver.29803894 and Zelda ver.82398659832?

                And I find it even more disturbing that Nintendo wants us to physically move for a video game just like we would in real life. If I want to mimic throwing a football I'll get my buddies together for a game in the park. When I play video games, I want to sit on my butt and not move anything but my fingers.

                Also, look at Red Steel. How different is that game really? There's a crap load of games out there just like it. So what if I have to move my hand to slash with my sword or shoot my gun? The concept and story is the exact same.

                Nintendo says their revolutionary but they're liars. They're simply trying to give you updated Mario and Zelda games for a cheaper price compared to their compitors. And people who love those games will eat it up. Just like people who love FPS's will drool over the 360 and buy every GoW or CoD game out there.

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                • rudyjuly2
                  Cade Cunningham
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 14815

                  #23
                  Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                  Originally posted by pk500
                  I just think there's something wrong with the next-gen gaming hardware model because the pricing conflicts with the norm of nearly every other consumer electronics product in a maturing genre. It's not like video game consoles just hit the market in 1997 -- they've been around for 25 years or so.

                  There's more competition than ever in video gaming hardware, with three VERY viable next-gen console manufacturers who each also produce very alive current-gen systems, and two very competitive handheld manufacturers.

                  Isn't that competition supposed to drive prices down instead of up? Instead, we're seeing prices for next-gen machinery anywhere from 50 to 100 percent higher than that of the last generation.

                  That makes little sense to me.

                  Take care,
                  PK
                  There was a great article on why Nintendo/Wii will succeed (around pg 6-7? http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article....le=42&ed=4&p=1) despite worse specs. They talked about the business model of Sony and MS is to simply increase horsepower. However, we have reached the stage where graphical improvements are being tapped out. Increasing horsepower is not the number one goal anymore. Next-next gen graphical improvements will be extremely minimal compared to the 360/PS3. The article talks about being revolutionary rather than just juicing up the old console. Its a really good and in-depth read.

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                  • nemesis04
                    RIP Ty My Buddy
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 13530

                    #24
                    Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                    I have not enjoyed next gen what so ever. I am more concerned about making sure the hardware will not fail than playing the game. What is up with that? As far as I am concerned, next gen is a good example of the law of diminishing returns!

                    As far as nickle and diming everyone for extras, I think it is going to get worse! I think developers are getting bent over with production costs, more so than probably expected. They are going to try and get as much outside dollars as they can to balance costs.
                    “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

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                    • PlayaHataSupreme
                      MVP
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 2209

                      #25
                      Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                      Originally posted by Money99
                      You might want to double check on how 'revolutionary' the Wii is going to be. An early review of Nintendo Wii tennis revealed that you actually don't control the movement of your player. The CPU does it. All your responsible for is swinging the racket. How fun is that?
                      And many others are saying the response time is way off so far too.
                      I don't hold any stock on the Wii doing anything extrodinary. This will only be another minor upgrade from Nintendo's previous console that will feature more Mario and Zelda games. If you're not into either, you probably won't buy this console.

                      I bought a 360 just for NHL07. If that game wasn't as good as it is, I probably would have sold my Xbox for PS2 just for MLB The Show.
                      And Xbox Live is probably the only thing prompting me to buy any of the new games coming out.
                      Unless I'm missing something, I don't recall any console with shoulder buttons on their controllers before the Super Nintendo........

                      And I don't recall any other company with the analog stick thingy before N64.........

                      And I don't recall any other company with a rumbling controller before N64's Starfox 64.........

                      And if there were precedents to my examples, apparently they did not do so well.............

                      I don't agree with you this time, Money. Though everything about how their technology may not be working flawlessly right now, I still think that Nintendo's foundation here with this machine will at the very least be copycated by one of the other companies............

                      I predict that the Wii will have a higher market share this generation than the Gamecube had, even if it finishes in third place.
                      Favorite Teams:
                      NBA: Houston Rockets
                      NFL: Tennessee Titans
                      MLB: Chicago White Sox
                      NCAA: Florida State Seminoles


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                      • rudyjuly2
                        Cade Cunningham
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 14815

                        #26
                        Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                        Originally posted by Money99
                        I just had a thought.
                        I'm glad. It's been awhile.

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                        • Money99
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 12695

                          #27
                          Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                          Originally posted by PlayaHataSupreme
                          Unless I'm missing something, I don't recall any console with shoulder buttons on their controllers before the Super Nintendo........

                          And I don't recall any other company with the analog stick thingy before N64.........

                          And I don't recall any other company with a rumbling controller before N64's Starfox 64.........

                          And if there were precedents to my examples, apparently they did not do so well.............

                          I don't agree with you this time, Money. Though everything about how their technology may not be working flawlessly right now, I still think that Nintendo's foundation here with this machine will at the very least be copycated by one of the other companies............

                          I predict that the Wii will have a higher market share this generation than the Gamecube had, even if it finishes in third place.
                          That's great that they were revolutionary 15 years ago. And their motion sensor controller was ripped off by Microsoft. And that controller sucked because it was too senstive for movements. Maybe Microsoft fixed this, but in a game like Tennis exactly how do you move your man and the racket? This is why the CPU controls that for you. That's lame.

                          The Nintendo Wii will do very well in Japan. Everyone knows that. But in North America it will have the same (or close to) share hold that the Gamecube held. Once you get past Mario and Zelda and perhaps Metroid there won't be too many games that scream to casual and hardcore gamers "Buy Me!".

                          I'm a sports gamer first so the Wii holds nothing for me. There won't be NHL07, MLB2K7, Fight night, nothing.
                          Some of their games look intrigueing. Like Trauma Centre II. But it's not enough for me to spend another $300 on. And that controller does absolutely nothing for me.

                          I'm glad. It's been awhile.
                          We'll see how humerous you feel when I'm pulling your fanny out of the fire in Marvel Ultimate Alliance. That's what happens when you pick chick heroes to fight with.

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                          • rudyjuly2
                            Cade Cunningham
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 14815

                            #28
                            Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                            Originally posted by Money99
                            I'm a sports gamer first so the Wii holds nothing for me.

                            We'll see how humerous you feel when I'm pulling your fanny out of the fire in Marvel Ultimate Alliance. That's what happens when you pick chick heroes to fight with.
                            As a sports gamer only, the Wii holds little interest for me as well. I need my NCAA football.

                            However, I will not use chick heroes to fight with in Marvel. I will be Spiderman, Iron Man, Colussus or Wolverine. I also expect to dominate on your 360 which I have yet to even see in action.
                            Last edited by rudyjuly2; 11-03-2006, 02:45 PM.

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                            • nemesis04
                              RIP Ty My Buddy
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 13530

                              #29
                              Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                              Originally posted by Money99

                              I'm a sports gamer first so the Wii holds nothing for me. There won't be NHL07, MLB2K7, Fight night, nothing.
                              Don't know about the others but they are making MLB 2k7 for the Wii.
                              “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

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                              • Money99
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Sep 2002
                                • 12695

                                #30
                                Re: Next Gen Consoles – Way too soon or Signs of Failure?

                                Originally posted by rudyjuly2
                                As a sports gamer only, the Wii holds little interest for me as well. I need my NCAA football.

                                However, I will not use chick heroes to fight with in Marvel. I will be Spiderman, Iron Man, Colussus or Wolverine. I also expect to dominate on your 360 which I have yet to even see in action.

                                I'm not sure you're brain is ready to absorb the power of 1080i HD resolution. You might have to sit a few games out.

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