Eastren and Westren RPGs

[Graphik]

First of all, what is the exact difrence? And secondly, what are some games that would fit under each category?

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

First of all, what is the exact difrence? And secondly, what are some games that would fit under each category?

well other than the fact that western rpg's are made in the states and eastern rpg's are made in japan, the main differences are:

easter rpg's are more linear. this allows more of a story to unfold thru the telling of cut-scenes, etc.

western rpg's are less linear, or at the least give you more options or places to go at several points in the game.

eastern rpg's induce more emotion, and because of the stronger emphasis on plot development they portray more emotion to those that are in the party.

western rpg's allow more room for your imagination to dictate the emotion you feel from the game

some eastern rpg's:
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
.Hak
Phantasy Star
tons of others i cant think of right now

some western rpg's:
morrowind
bard's tale
baldur's gate(and its siblings like torment and icewind dale are about the only ones that takes many elements from both side)
SSI old school d&d (curse of azure bonds, etc)
Phantasie
Ultima's

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

First of all, what is the exact difrence? And secondly, what are some games that would fit under each category?

well other than the fact that western rpg's are made in the states and eastern rpg's are made in japan, the main differences are:

easter rpg's are more linear. this allows more of a story to unfold thru the telling of cut-scenes, etc.

western rpg's are less linear, or at the least give you more options or places to go at several points in the game.

eastern rpg's induce more emotion, and because of the stronger emphasis on plot development they portray more emotion to those that are in the party.

western rpg's allow more room for your imagination to dictate the emotion you feel from the game

some eastern rpg's:
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
.Hak
Phantasy Star
tons of others i cant think of right now

some western rpg's:
morrowind
bard's tale
baldur's gate(and its siblings like torment and icewind dale are about the only ones that takes many elements from both side)
SSI old school d&d (curse of azure bonds, etc)
Phantasie
Ultima's

[Graphik]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

So why are westren RPGs so under the radar? I mean, having the player use his or her imagination is better than being sucked into a story....dont you think? I donno?

One thing I dont like about eastren RPGs is the fact that its always linear.Whats the point of creating this detailed and wonderful worlds if you cant explore any of them? All you can do is look. One thing that increases the longevity of a game is the ability to make your own decisions. That way you can go back and play it a diffrent way. Plus the exploration part is a must. What good is roleplaying if the role you're playing is already determined from the start of the game? Why not create a role and live it out.

I donno, I've always wondered why I could never really finish games like FF. As much as I can be captivated by the story, the fact that I'm living out a character that is pre-made for the simple fact of progressing a story never really appealed to me. You really have no decisions to make and no choices in how you progress. All it is, is go to destination A, kill monster at destination A, and return to destination B to recieve reward.

I remember a game on Sega CD that was'nt quite a RPG but more of a mystery game. I think it was called Fist of the Dragon or something like that. Anyway, you had choices you made that impacted the way the story or mystery would unfold. It was always a right answer, a wrong answer and a nuetral answer. But it was more complicated than that. I remember falling in love with that simple game and wishing that more games came out like it. Here we are 10 years or so later and the selection for those type of immersive, decision making type of games are limited. Why has no one attempted to make a Morrowind clone as like the GTA series? Why are all the major RPGs out those linear eastren RPGs. (and dont get me wrong, I still like eastren RPGs, its just that its so many of them, its hard to pick the best out of the best, you know) I think slowly but surely, we'll see more Morrowinds and KOTORs and Fables come out. I'm just mad that they are few and far between.

[Graphik]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

So why are westren RPGs so under the radar? I mean, having the player use his or her imagination is better than being sucked into a story....dont you think? I donno?

One thing I dont like about eastren RPGs is the fact that its always linear.Whats the point of creating this detailed and wonderful worlds if you cant explore any of them? All you can do is look. One thing that increases the longevity of a game is the ability to make your own decisions. That way you can go back and play it a diffrent way. Plus the exploration part is a must. What good is roleplaying if the role you're playing is already determined from the start of the game? Why not create a role and live it out.

I donno, I've always wondered why I could never really finish games like FF. As much as I can be captivated by the story, the fact that I'm living out a character that is pre-made for the simple fact of progressing a story never really appealed to me. You really have no decisions to make and no choices in how you progress. All it is, is go to destination A, kill monster at destination A, and return to destination B to recieve reward.

I remember a game on Sega CD that was'nt quite a RPG but more of a mystery game. I think it was called Fist of the Dragon or something like that. Anyway, you had choices you made that impacted the way the story or mystery would unfold. It was always a right answer, a wrong answer and a nuetral answer. But it was more complicated than that. I remember falling in love with that simple game and wishing that more games came out like it. Here we are 10 years or so later and the selection for those type of immersive, decision making type of games are limited. Why has no one attempted to make a Morrowind clone as like the GTA series? Why are all the major RPGs out those linear eastren RPGs. (and dont get me wrong, I still like eastren RPGs, its just that its so many of them, its hard to pick the best out of the best, you know) I think slowly but surely, we'll see more Morrowinds and KOTORs and Fables come out. I'm just mad that they are few and far between.

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

So why are westren RPGs so under the radar? I mean, having the player use his or her imagination is better than being sucked into a story....dont you think? I donno?

One thing I dont like about eastren RPGs is the fact that its always linear.Whats the point of creating this detailed and wonderful worlds if you cant explore any of them? All you can do is look. One thing that increases the longevity of a game is the ability to make your own decisions. That way you can go back and play it a diffrent way. Plus the exploration part is a must. What good is roleplaying if the role you're playing is already determined from the start of the game? Why not create a role and live it out.

I donno, I've always wondered why I could never really finish games like FF. As much as I can be captivated by the story, the fact that I'm living out a character that is pre-made for the simple fact of progressing a story never really appealed to me. You really have no decisions to make and no choices in how you progress. All it is, is go to destination A, kill monster at destination A, and return to destination B to recieve reward.

I remember a game on Sega CD that was'nt quite a RPG but more of a mystery game. I think it was called Fist of the Dragon or something like that. Anyway, you had choices you made that impacted the way the story or mystery would unfold. It was always a right answer, a wrong answer and a nuetral answer. But it was more complicated than that. I remember falling in love with that simple game and wishing that more games came out like it. Here we are 10 years or so later and the selection for those type of immersive, decision making type of games are limited. Why has no one attempted to make a Morrowind clone as like the GTA series? Why are all the major RPGs out those linear eastren RPGs. (and dont get me wrong, I still like eastren RPGs, its just that its so many of them, its hard to pick the best out of the best, you know) I think slowly but surely, we'll see more Morrowinds and KOTORs and Fables come out. I'm just mad that they are few and far between.

You answered your oqn question. Good innovative rpg's are sleeper hits and dont sell well. These days only games with crazy marketing and/or numbers to represent sequels sell. What i wouldnt give for more old school western rpg's. you know, the type that made your head explode at some of the riddles, etc. I too enjoy western ones more than eastern, though i play the eastern ones and enjoy them a pretty good deal also. But i also wasnt able to go all the way through with Final Fantasy VII, no matter how many times i tried.

Fallout I and II are good examples of how rpg's should be made. The level of freedom in these games were great, and the options you had were plentiful. yet you always knew your main goal(s).

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

So why are westren RPGs so under the radar? I mean, having the player use his or her imagination is better than being sucked into a story....dont you think? I donno?

One thing I dont like about eastren RPGs is the fact that its always linear.Whats the point of creating this detailed and wonderful worlds if you cant explore any of them? All you can do is look. One thing that increases the longevity of a game is the ability to make your own decisions. That way you can go back and play it a diffrent way. Plus the exploration part is a must. What good is roleplaying if the role you're playing is already determined from the start of the game? Why not create a role and live it out.

I donno, I've always wondered why I could never really finish games like FF. As much as I can be captivated by the story, the fact that I'm living out a character that is pre-made for the simple fact of progressing a story never really appealed to me. You really have no decisions to make and no choices in how you progress. All it is, is go to destination A, kill monster at destination A, and return to destination B to recieve reward.

I remember a game on Sega CD that was'nt quite a RPG but more of a mystery game. I think it was called Fist of the Dragon or something like that. Anyway, you had choices you made that impacted the way the story or mystery would unfold. It was always a right answer, a wrong answer and a nuetral answer. But it was more complicated than that. I remember falling in love with that simple game and wishing that more games came out like it. Here we are 10 years or so later and the selection for those type of immersive, decision making type of games are limited. Why has no one attempted to make a Morrowind clone as like the GTA series? Why are all the major RPGs out those linear eastren RPGs. (and dont get me wrong, I still like eastren RPGs, its just that its so many of them, its hard to pick the best out of the best, you know) I think slowly but surely, we'll see more Morrowinds and KOTORs and Fables come out. I'm just mad that they are few and far between.

You answered your oqn question. Good innovative rpg's are sleeper hits and dont sell well. These days only games with crazy marketing and/or numbers to represent sequels sell. What i wouldnt give for more old school western rpg's. you know, the type that made your head explode at some of the riddles, etc. I too enjoy western ones more than eastern, though i play the eastern ones and enjoy them a pretty good deal also. But i also wasnt able to go all the way through with Final Fantasy VII, no matter how many times i tried.

Fallout I and II are good examples of how rpg's should be made. The level of freedom in these games were great, and the options you had were plentiful. yet you always knew your main goal(s).

[NovaStar]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

Yeah, I feel ya Graphik. I started playing rpg's with ultima III exodus. In those games, every item you needed wasn't scripted for you to automatically get, in other words if you didn't get a needed item, it would hurt your chances of success at the end. In Ultima III you had to get a ring from a guy under a tree, the ring it turns out protected you from the force field that you had to walk through to get to the bad guy. If you didn't have it it would take like 3,000 hit points per step!! My point being that you weren't spoon fed items and clues you had to use your mind and wits to conquer the game, that is what made it fun. You still had a story to follow but how you solved the story was left up to you.

I think since rpg's have went mainstream(console) you have a more linear experience. I like morrowind because it is a throwback rpg game. Although I did like skies of arcadia for the dreamcast, that flying boat thing was beautiful. I also liked the first phantasy star for the dreamcast. I guess eastern games are built more for a more younger mainstream crowd whereas western style rpg's are for older more sophisticated rpgers.

[NovaStar]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

Yeah, I feel ya Graphik. I started playing rpg's with ultima III exodus. In those games, every item you needed wasn't scripted for you to automatically get, in other words if you didn't get a needed item, it would hurt your chances of success at the end. In Ultima III you had to get a ring from a guy under a tree, the ring it turns out protected you from the force field that you had to walk through to get to the bad guy. If you didn't have it it would take like 3,000 hit points per step!! My point being that you weren't spoon fed items and clues you had to use your mind and wits to conquer the game, that is what made it fun. You still had a story to follow but how you solved the story was left up to you.

I think since rpg's have went mainstream(console) you have a more linear experience. I like morrowind because it is a throwback rpg game. Although I did like skies of arcadia for the dreamcast, that flying boat thing was beautiful. I also liked the first phantasy star for the dreamcast. I guess eastern games are built more for a more younger mainstream crowd whereas western style rpg's are for older more sophisticated rpgers.

[jfsolo]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I love the freedom of Morrowind, and the fact that the character is who you make him(or her) I am also, however a sucker for the epic, overwrought, angst-ridden, heroes unite to save the world-save your soul, melodrama like a Xenogears(PS1).

Morrowind's success nothwithstanding, I think Western RPG's are a hard sell on consoles because marketing openended gameplay within a traditional fantasy gameworld would seem somewhat problematic. People want to do what they want, but they also want to be sweep away in whirlwind "Lord of the Rings" type tale.

The future seems bright thou. Fable, K.O.T.O.R., Jade Empire all seem to be moving toward a hybrid of freedom within a larger epic story. Even FF12 seems to be less restrictive in it's outlay. P.C. games with their greater power and memory have led the way and will probably do so at least for another generation of systems.

It shall be interesting in 2006 or 2007 to see what "The Elder Scrolls 4" is like. If they can allow the same freedom, but ratchet up the emotional content(especially for the NPC's) the stage will be set for a new standard bearer in the genre.

For the record, Ultima 7 and Planescape Torment are the class of the genre.(IMO)

[jfsolo]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I love the freedom of Morrowind, and the fact that the character is who you make him(or her) I am also, however a sucker for the epic, overwrought, angst-ridden, heroes unite to save the world-save your soul, melodrama like a Xenogears(PS1).

Morrowind's success nothwithstanding, I think Western RPG's are a hard sell on consoles because marketing openended gameplay within a traditional fantasy gameworld would seem somewhat problematic. People want to do what they want, but they also want to be sweep away in whirlwind "Lord of the Rings" type tale.

The future seems bright thou. Fable, K.O.T.O.R., Jade Empire all seem to be moving toward a hybrid of freedom within a larger epic story. Even FF12 seems to be less restrictive in it's outlay. P.C. games with their greater power and memory have led the way and will probably do so at least for another generation of systems.

It shall be interesting in 2006 or 2007 to see what "The Elder Scrolls 4" is like. If they can allow the same freedom, but ratchet up the emotional content(especially for the NPC's) the stage will be set for a new standard bearer in the genre.

For the record, Ultima 7 and Planescape Torment are the class of the genre.(IMO)

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I love the freedom of Morrowind, and the fact that the character is who you make him(or her) I am also, however a sucker for the epic, overwrought, angst-ridden, heroes unite to save the world-save your soul, melodrama like a Xenogears(PS1).

Morrowind's success nothwithstanding, I think Western RPG's are a hard sell on consoles because marketing openended gameplay within a traditional fantasy gameworld would seem somewhat problematic. People want to do what they want, but they also want to be sweep away in whirlwind "Lord of the Rings" type tale.

The future seems bright thou. Fable, K.O.T.O.R., Jade Empire all seem to be moving toward a hybrid of freedom within a larger epic story. Even FF12 seems to be less restrictive in it's outlay. P.C. games with their greater power and memory have led the way and will probably do so at least for another generation of systems.

It shall be interesting in 2006 or 2007 to see what "The Elder Scrolls 4" is like. If they can allow the same freedom, but ratchet up the emotional content(especially for the NPC's) the stage will be set for a new standard bearer in the genre.

For the record, Ultima 7 and Planescape Torment are the class of the genre.(IMO)

I have always felt that western rpg's play better and just feel "right" when being played on the PC. I might just be crazy though.

[Bacardi151]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I love the freedom of Morrowind, and the fact that the character is who you make him(or her) I am also, however a sucker for the epic, overwrought, angst-ridden, heroes unite to save the world-save your soul, melodrama like a Xenogears(PS1).

Morrowind's success nothwithstanding, I think Western RPG's are a hard sell on consoles because marketing openended gameplay within a traditional fantasy gameworld would seem somewhat problematic. People want to do what they want, but they also want to be sweep away in whirlwind "Lord of the Rings" type tale.

The future seems bright thou. Fable, K.O.T.O.R., Jade Empire all seem to be moving toward a hybrid of freedom within a larger epic story. Even FF12 seems to be less restrictive in it's outlay. P.C. games with their greater power and memory have led the way and will probably do so at least for another generation of systems.

It shall be interesting in 2006 or 2007 to see what "The Elder Scrolls 4" is like. If they can allow the same freedom, but ratchet up the emotional content(especially for the NPC's) the stage will be set for a new standard bearer in the genre.

For the record, Ultima 7 and Planescape Torment are the class of the genre.(IMO)

I have always felt that western rpg's play better and just feel "right" when being played on the PC. I might just be crazy though.

[NovaStar]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I personally, like to have a good story driving my underlying purpose. I don't want to be able to play a game without having a reason for playing. Again, I go way back in rpgs (I remember playing the first wizardry when you were just stuck in a freakin dungeon the entire game) Because of this, I really didn't get into morrowind because I wanted the main story to drive me, I also like having parties, it seems so appropriate to go into a quest with friends. I am looking forward to lotr the 3rd age, it seems to capture all that I like in a good rpg (orcs,elves etc...) Although might and magic 7 really appealed to me. I think it is hard for developers to please everyone these days, but if Morrowind would have had a party and or a great story line along with it's non linear play I would have loved it.

[NovaStar]

Re: Eastren and Westren RPGs

I personally, like to have a good story driving my underlying purpose. I don't want to be able to play a game without having a reason for playing. Again, I go way back in rpgs (I remember playing the first wizardry when you were just stuck in a freakin dungeon the entire game) Because of this, I really didn't get into morrowind because I wanted the main story to drive me, I also like having parties, it seems so appropriate to go into a quest with friends. I am looking forward to lotr the 3rd age, it seems to capture all that I like in a good rpg (orcs,elves etc...) Although might and magic 7 really appealed to me. I think it is hard for developers to please everyone these days, but if Morrowind would have had a party and or a great story line along with it's non linear play I would have loved it.