Stock market in a free fall

[MassNole]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

http://www.finaid.org/loans/

Roughly 2/3 of four year college students receive financial aid. By making it harder to receive funds for a college level education, we're going to be left with that many more uneducated people trying to join the workforce. I get your point, but why take credit away from the one group of people who are actually using it to make them better people. And imagine how much harder it would be to obtain scholarships with so many more people (hundreds of thousands/millions???) in need of financial help. Besides the military (where you could possibly die in battle as you are just trying to earn money for an education), where else could you turn for money? With college costing upwards of $50-$100K, your talking about working 5-10 years at a low paying job to get into college as a 30 year old. By then, who's going to want to go back to school for 4-5 years and be 35 year old just joining the professional workforce.

I mean of all things, why punish those that want to get an education instead of those that want to buy a luxury vehicle on a minimum wage salary or want to open up a credit card to buy a video game system.

I mean if you're going to punish people by refusing credit, do it to those that are using it for luxury instead of to those that are actually trying to make themselves a better person.

And while some may treat college like a 4 year party, those people usually don't make it past year 1. My experience must have been different than yours because the high majority of people I went to school with took it serious and are much better for it.

Plus you'd see a lot of public colleges and universities go bankrupt as well. If 2/3 of those at four year schools are using financial aid it total, it's probably 75-80% at public schools (probably not a lot of people going to Yale, Harvard or Stanford on the governments dime). So you cut their enrollment by 80% and they won't be able to afford to stay open.

You make some valid points and whereas it would suck for some people as a whole it would be for the best. I understand that some really want to make a better life, but the problem is too many people are entering the 'skilled' work force and a lot of people cannot find jobs, which leads to them defaulting on their student loans. In other words, government money goes to the colleges (not for profits, hence no tax liability) and never gets paid back. More and more college grads are ending up taking jobs they would have otherwise taken without the college degree, so I suppose why not cut out the middle man and let them go to that job anyways. There was a time when going to college was a privilege, now that isn't the case. Besides, if we cut the amounts of student loans we give, then colleges would be forced to lower tuition which would then again make college more affordable for some people. As it stands colleges are getting a pass for their massive corruption. They keep raising tuition (my alma mater's tuition has gone up by $15,000 in 8 years) and the government keeps paying it, thus straddling more people with debt. Sure some schools (Harvard, Princeton, Stanford) are being responsible, but most others are just getting greedy and fattening their endowments at the expense of the tax payers. So my plan is two fold, part one reduce the amount of student loan money that is available and second enforce tax liability onto colleges. I don't have exact numbers, but does anyone not think that if we started charging colleges income tax the way we do corporations that there would not be a lot of new revenue flowing into the government to offset this bailout? I don't get why colleges are getting a pass on this despite a sickingly level of greed. Lets not pretend that it isn't just undergrad schools, more and more law schools are opening despite the fact that there are only enough legal jobs for 1/4 of the graduates each year. Sure some of us forge ahead with our own business, but think about that, 3/4 of those going to law school really have no chance of getting a job out of school, and most of them are saddled with $100k+ in debt. The Education sector is beyond corrupt at this point and needs to pay it's fair share.

Again I know it's elitist, especially coming from me, but we need to reenter the age when those who go to college and graduate school should be those who can truly afford to do so. It isn't the government's responsibility to pick up that tab. Yes it sucks, but it just the reality of the situation. This doesn't even take into account those who go to college who really lack the intelligence to do so, because well with the number of colleges out there I don't think anyone who can graduate HS could not get into college if they looked hard enough right now.

I don't disagree with this at all. $700 Billion would easy to raise if they legalized weed.

Agreed.

-Here is another idea, why not punish those individuals that are fiscally irresponsible. Forget bankruptcy and wiping away your debt and only getting stuck with a crappy credit score for the next 7-10 years (which most that file already have). How about jail or mandatory community service time for those that default on their credit. You default, you get to mop floors and scrub toilets at Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac or AIG (Hey, we got to keep their expenses to a minimum).

I mean someone buys a house they can't afford two years down the road after the interest rate rises or their balloon payment is due and what happens? They walk away with no true punishment and walk right into another loan or into an apartment. They don't lose anything.

There are too many people that live so far beyond their means that his is inevitbale. People making $5,000 a month and paying a $4,000 mortgage, then leasing a car and carrying everything else on credit. Then Boom!

I agree to a point, but on the same hand we need to look at those handing out these lines of credit. To give credit to the person in your last scenario is just bad business and the company doing so needs to be just as accountable as the person who takes it. That being said, a mandatory community service program for someone filing for bankruptcy is not a bad idea IMO. Make them give back more than just the money. I can't say do away with Bankruptcy altogether, because my partner is a Bankruptcy attorney and we need the business.

[callmetaternuts]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

This all goes back so far, but everyone wants to blame current administration. Credit will tighten up and i think you will see stricter standards on who gets what loaned out now. Im very interested to see how the bailout is written and shaped. This bailout could cause bigger problems if not structured properly and not adapted to help out all facets of the economy.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

I concur. The government getting involved does not fix anything. It only further complicates things. The market always corrects itself. If you take any 10 year period in the nation's history, the market would have gone up over that time, even during the Great Depression (source: Dave Ramsey).

Look at the Great Depression. It lasted only about a year in foreign countries, but because the government got involved here, it lasted about 10 years.

It is stupid to nationalize these failing companies. They failed so they should go out of business. That is capitalism.

That's really silly. The Great Depression hit countries differently but it's major reason why fascists like Hitler rose to power. The only countries not greatly affected were countries with self-sufficient economies. The countries that were affected by the Great Depression didn't recover until after World War II.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

There's an economics expert (forget his name) that regularly comes on Coast to Coast AM (I know nutbar radio show but sometimes they actually break real news) says this is just the tip of the iceberg and there's far more to the story then anyone cares to admit.

He says that the printing of money the way it's going in the US is actually devaluing the dollar to the point that it's almost become worthless. Most of the foreign nations/businesses are doing transactions with the Euro rather then the Dollar these days.

To sum it up, the guy believes that this upcoming crisis will make the Great Depression look like a day at the beach.

The dollar isn't anywhere near worthless and actually became stronger compared to the Euro over the summer. The reason that the dollar has fell is because we've relied on foreign loans to fund our government. You can't increase spending and cut taxes without the money coming from somewhere.

I also think that people like to make these doomsday scenarios about the economy. If you work for an investment bank or have a subprime mortgage the economy sucks. There will be spill over into other industries and there will be a credit crunch but the situation is no where near the Great Depression where people lost their life savings in a day.

[SPTO]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

Well I see the bailout is going through in some form or fashion. I hope it works out as I do have relatives in the US. Although I heard some interesting talk about it which I take with a HUGE grain of salt about how doing this would more or less create a 4th branch of government.

Anyways like I said I hope it works even though it shouldn't have been necessary.

[Cebby]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

Opposing the bailout is one of the strange situations where the common sense solution is actually the wrong thing to do. If there are bailouts, there's a chance the economy recovers and a chance it fails miserably. If there's no bailouts, as best as I understand it, we will all die.

However, my plan is probably the best.

You bailout the companies, but any executive who does a certain dollar amount of damage (say $10 million) is exiled to Wyoming, Montana, or the Dakotas. Now, at this point, they'll be unable to do any serious damage to the economy. However, if they're as talented, educated, and skilled as they think they are, they could provide another major economic center. Low risk, high reward. Worthy of credit, but I feed off props.

[yamabushi]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

The Bail-out is life support for companies that should be left to die.
Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does the economy. Left to its own devices it will find an equillibrium.
And if a people that had no business having these loans and the companies that handed them out (although their hands were forced ,thanks Bill!, but thats another story) fall to the wayside, so be it. You make your bed you lie in it. The bail-outs a disaster and just another step toward socialism.

[Psyblast]

Re: Stock market in a free fall

Yeah, this thread gets the chair now.