Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • superjames1992
    Hall Of Fame
    • Jun 2007
    • 31382

    #1

    Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

    Unbelievable. I don't know what to say. What happened to scientific integrity? I realize that they want to push this going into Copenhagen in December, but it is inexcusable to falsify data.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/sc...mate.html?_r=1

    Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

    <nyt_byline version="1.0" type=" "> By ANDREW C. REVKIN
    </nyt_byline> Published: November 20, 2009


    Hundreds of private e-mails and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.

    The e-mails, attributed to prominent American and British climate researchers, include discussions of scientific data and whether it should be released, exchanges about how best to combat the arguments of skeptics, and casual comments — in some cases derisive — about specific people known for their skeptical views. Drafts of scientific papers and a photo collage that portrays climate skeptics on an ice floe were also among the hacked data, some of which dates back 13 years.

    In one e-mail exchange, a scientist writes of using a statistical “trick” in a chart illustrating a recent sharp warming trend. In another, a scientist refers to climate skeptics as “idiots.”

    Some skeptics asserted Friday that the correspondence revealed an effort to withhold scientific information. “This is not a smoking gun, this is a mushroom cloud,” said Patrick J. Michaels, a climatologist who has long faulted evidence pointing to human-driven warming and is criticized in the documents.

    Portions of the correspondence portrays the scientists as feeling under siege by the skeptics’ camp and worried that any stray comment or data glitch could be turned against them.

    The cache of e-mails also includes references to journalists, including this reporter, and queries from journalists related to articles they were reporting.

    Officials at the University of East Anglia confirmed in a statement on Friday that files had been stolen from a university server and that the police had been brought in to investigate the breach. They added, however, that they could not confirm that all the material circulating on the Internet was authentic.

    But several scientists and others contacted by the Times confirmed that they were the authors or recipients of specific e-mails included in the file.

    The revelations are bound to inflame the public debate as hundreds of negotiators prepare to hammer out an international climate accord at meetings in Copenhagen next month, and at least one scientist speculated that the timing was not coincidental.

    The documents will undoubtedly raise questions about the quality of research on some specific questions and the actions of some scientists. But the evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so broad and deep that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument.

    In several e-mail exchanges, Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and other scientists discussed whether a string of recent years of relatively stable temperatures undermined scientific models that predict long-term warming.

    “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t,” Dr. Trenberth wrote.

    Other scientists went on to rebut him, saying that the fluctuations were not inconsistent with a continuing warming trend.

    Dr. Trenberth said Friday that he was appalled at the release of the e-mails, which he said were private discussions.

    But he added that he thought the revelations might backfire against climate skeptics. If anything, he said, he thought that the messages showed “the integrity of scientists.”

    Still, some of the comments might lend themselves to sinister interpretations.

    In a 1999 e-mail exchange about charts showing climate patterns over the last two millennia, Phil Jones, a longtime climate researcher at the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, said he had used a “trick” employed by another scientist, Michael Mann, to “hide a decline” in temperatures.

    Dr. Mann, a professor at Pennsylvania State, confirmed in an interview that the e-mail was real. He said the choice of words by his colleague was poor but noted that scientists often use the word “trick” to refer to a good way to solve a problem, “and not something secret.” “It sounds incriminating, but when you look at what you’re talking about, there’s nothing there,” Dr. Mann said.

    Dr. Jones, writing in an e-mail, declined to be interviewed and pasted in the university’s statement.

    Stephen McIntyre, a blogger who has for years been using his Web site, climateaudit.org, to challenge data used to chart climate patterns and came in for heated criticism in some e-mails, called the revelations “quite breathtaking.”

    But several scientists whose names appear repeatedly in the e-mails said they merely revealed that scientists are human beings, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming.

    “Science doesn’t work because we’re all nice,” said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of recent climate studies were included in the cache. “Newton may have been an ***, but the theory of gravity still works.”

    He said the breach at the University of East Anglia was discovered after hackers who had gained access to the correspondence sought Tuesday to hack into a different server supporting realclimate.org, a blog unrelated to NASA that he runs with several other scientists pressing the case for global warming.

    The intruders sought to create a mock blog post there and to upload the full batch of files from Britain – nearly 200 megabytes’ worth.

    That effort was thwarted, Dr. Schmidt said, and scientists immediately notified colleagues at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit. Nearly all the material in the hacked files, which quickly spread to a variety of servers, originated with or was sent to climate scientists at the school.

    The first posts that revealed details from the files appeared on Thursday at The Air Vent, a Web site devoted to skeptics’ arguments. Almost instantly readers there and elsewhere began posting excerpts that they felt illustrated scientific bias or dishonesty.

    At first, said Dr. Michaels, the climatologist who has faulted some of the science undergirding the global warming consensus, his instinct was to ignore the correspondence as “just the way scientists talk.”

    But on Friday, he said, after reading more deeply, he felt that some exchanges reflected a concerted effort to block the release of data for independent review.

    He said that some e-mails mused about a way to discredit him by challenging the veracity of his doctoral dissertation at the University of Wisconsin by claiming he knew his research was wrong.

    “This shows these are people willing to bend rules and go after other people’s reputations in very serious ways,” he said.
    BTW, mods lock this up if need be. I'm not sure whether global warming is considered political or not.
    Coaching Legacy of James Frizzell (CH 2K8)
    Yale Bulldogs (NCAA Football 07)
    Coaching Legacy of Lee Williamson (CH 2K8)
  • J0nnD0ugh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Feb 2003
    • 16602

    #2
    Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

    Why do people think scientists, doctors, academics etc have integrity? They are flesh & blood & have agendas just like everybody else. I'm sure the global warming naysayers have been emailing tricks & strategems themselves.
    Originally posted by VP Richard M. Nixon
    I always remember that whatever I have done in the past, or may do in the future, Duke University is responsible one way or the other.
    -August 17, 1960
    Thanks, dookies!

    Comment

    • snepp
      We'll waste him too.
      • Apr 2003
      • 10007

      #3
      Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

      Originally posted by J0nnD0ugh
      Why do people think scientists, doctors, academics etc have integrity? They are flesh & blood & have agendas just like everybody else. I'm sure the global warming naysayers have been emailing tricks & strategems themselves.

      Bingo.

      These guys don't do charity work either. Research money tends to come from grants, and grants tend to come from results.
      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

      Comment

      • SPTO
        binging
        • Feb 2003
        • 68046

        #4
        Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

        It's not like the skeptics are squeaky clean either as a good chunk of them have funds or ties to major oil companies so it's a vicious cycle that way. i guess it goes down to who you trust the most in a group of people you can't really trust at all.

        BTW i've been hearing things about how over the next 20 years temps are going to actually stabilize. There's actually some that believe this is because of the sun and the effect of the CO2s already in the air.

        Interesting at the very least.
        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

        Comment

        • TheMatrix31
          RF
          • Jul 2002
          • 52915

          #5
          Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

          You know the drill guys....

          ....keep it clean.

          As for the e-mails....it's not right that they were hacked, but if they're true, then I won't feel bad at ALL.

          Comment

          • SuperBowlNachos
            All Star
            • Jul 2004
            • 10218

            #6
            Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

            To lazy to read, but I saw it said emals from 1999? People still had them saved?

            Comment

            • daflyboys
              Banned
              • May 2003
              • 18238

              #7
              Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

              Originally posted by superjames1992

              BTW, mods lock this up if need be. I'm not sure whether global warming is considered political or not.

              What's amazing is that that statement even has to be made. Why should a scientific event ever be considered politically linked? Hmmmmm.

              Comment

              • J.R. Locke
                Banned
                • Nov 2004
                • 4137

                #8
                Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                Oil, gas, US govt security interest power blows away climate scientist influence in any decision.

                Global warming doesn't matter.

                U.S. gasoline prices do matter. What cars are being bought now?

                EDIT: ---unnecessary--
                Last edited by TheMatrix31; 11-21-2009, 08:27 AM.

                Comment

                • youvalss
                  ******
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 16601

                  #9
                  Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                  Who know if the H1N1 isn't another issue...
                  My Specs:

                  ZX Spectrum
                  CPU: Z80 @ 3.5 MHz
                  GPU: Monochrome display
                  RAM: 48 KB
                  OS: Sinclair BASIC

                  Comment

                  • matt8204
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1164

                    #10
                    Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                    I'll be honest; I've always been skeptical on this whole issue. A lot of people are becoming or stand to become very rich off of things like carbon offsets and cap-and-trade proposals. I think a lot of people are driven by the dollar, not by any concern for the environment. I hate being such a cynic, but I can't help it. I've seen so many scams exposed in my lifetime.
                    New Jersey Devils- 1995, 2000, 2003

                    New York Giants- 1927, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1986, 1990, 2007.

                    PSN ID- matt8204

                    Comment

                    • Chaos81
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 17150

                      #11
                      Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                      Originally posted by olliethebum85
                      To lazy to read, but I saw it said emals from 1999? People still had them saved?
                      There's one from mid August of 1996. I wasn't even in high school when that email was sent. Still a couple weeks away. haha

                      EDIT: Just saw there is one from March 7, 1996.
                      Last edited by Chaos81; 11-22-2009, 03:44 AM.

                      Comment

                      • p_rushing
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 14514

                        #12
                        Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                        Originally posted by matt8204
                        I'll be honest; I've always been skeptical on this whole issue. A lot of people are becoming or stand to become very rich off of things like carbon offsets and cap-and-trade proposals. I think a lot of people are driven by the dollar, not by any concern for the environment. I hate being such a cynic, but I can't help it. I've seen so many scams exposed in my lifetime.
                        Yeah that is the problem I have. Take a look at NBC, GE is heavily staked in "green" products, I don't think they really care, but they want to not lose a ton of money.

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21554

                          #13
                          Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                          Speaking as someone with chemically-induced asthma, my stance on the issue is that any steps we can take to reduce pollution we ought to take, regardless whether global warming is a fact or a myth. There's got to be a health benefit for cleaning up the air / water / etc., if nothing else.

                          Comment

                          • ODogg
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 37953

                            #14
                            Re: Hacked E-Mails Fuel Climate Change Skeptics

                            I'm all for individuals and businesses for being globally aware and attempting to help the planet and curb pollution. It's when government tries to get involved to fix the problems that I develop great skepticism, as we all should. And so many of these global warming proponents are not in it for altruistic reasons but rather monetary reasons. This whole incident with these hacked emails is a godsend for the skeptics and hopefully will put a stop to this nonsense about man-made global warming.
                            Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
                            or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

                            Comment

                            Working...