Bin Laden is dead!

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  • Jackdog
    Wolverine Soldier
    • Aug 2002
    • 7719

    #451
    Re: Bin Laden is dead!

    Originally posted by The GIGGAS
    I'm going to share my thoughts on this event, and then I'm going to leave it at that.

    Osama bin Laden was evil. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Justice was coming to him, and the bell tolled yesterday. I applaud our troops for performing this mission without question, and succeeding.

    I don't think this is a moment in which we should celebrate outwardly. In essence, we are celebrating a man's death. There are certainly similarities between us and those in other nations who celebrated 9/11. I believe last night and today should be reserved for quiet introspection on what we've become as people. Have we become more compassionate because of the last 10 years? Have we been better people to those around us?

    As an aside, the celebration that we have been a part of could galvanize extremists against us. I can only imagine the anger that extremists feel watching Americans dance and celebrate the death of someone that integral to their struggle.

    Like I said, this is the last post I will post on this topic.
    I respect your opinion. Here's mine. It took 18 years and 3 administrations to bring this murderer to justice. In the meantime he's been behind the death of relatives and brothers in arms. I'm going to toast them with some Jamison today. I'm going to pray for the innocents that are going to die at the hands of his followers. As a soldier/vet I'm going to enjoy the moment because God knows there hasn't been a lot to celebrate in the last 10 years. In other words. I'm pretty damned happy today.

    Interesting read.
    What happened in the takedown of Osama bin Laden was the pinnacle of years of intelligence work which included the CIA, the NGA, and the NSA, according to White House senior administration officials' reports which chronicle the details below:

    It began with the CIA following leads on those bin Laden considered his closest. Detainees post-9/11 gave information on individuals who had been directly aiding bin Laden and his deputy after they left Afghanistan.

    The detainees turned over one courier's nickname who featured a repulsive resume: he was the student of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and an assistant to Al Qaeda's former number 3, Abu Faraj al-Libbi. Even more important, this courier was one of few trusted by bin Laden and possibly was living with him and protecting him.

    For years, however, the courier's real name and location remained a secret from the U.S. Then, four years ago, his name was discovered. Two years later, the U.S. also discovered his areas of operation in Pakistan, though his living quarters eluded U.S. intel, which in itself was a further indication to the U.S. that they were pursuing something worthwhile.

    In August 2010, that home was finally discovered. It's interesting to note that the White House report describes the area as somewhat affluent and a place with much retired military. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Al Qaeda's #3 were also captured in settled areas of the country. The sight of the 3-story, $1 million living residence surprised the U.S.: it was on a large area of land, approximately eight times larger than the other residences there. It had 12 to 18-foot walls with barbed wire perched on top. It also had internal wall sections. Those who lived there reportedly burned their trash (unlike their neighbors, who put the trash out to be picked up), and the compound's entrances were two security gates. The 3rd floor terrace had a 7-foot privacy wall. It also had no interent or telephone service connected. The courier (and his brother) did not have an "explainable source of wealth." At the time it was built (2005), it was relatively isolated, but other homes have since built up close by.

    Then U.S. intelligence discovered there was another family living in the compound in addition to those of the two brothers. This family fit the description consistent with that which the U.S. expected would be accompanying bin Laden.

    But the U.S. wanted to be sure, so it conducted red team exercises and analyzed the intel from every angle. The results consistently pointed to the secret inside the compound being Osama bin Laden.

    Meanwhile, the operation to take out bin Laden had been under preparation for months, with regular briefings for President Obama. In September of last year (approximately a month after the compound location was discovered), the president and the CIA began to work "on a set of assessments" that resulted in the U.S.'s belief that bin Laden could indeed be in the compound. By mid-February, the intelligence basis justified plotting a course of action for getting bin Laden at that location. From March 14th to April 29th, the president chaired at least five National Security Council meetings on the mission. He gave the final order for the now famous mission on the morning of April 29th (at least one American who probably wasn't watching the royal wedding live).

    The mission that took bin Laden out was a collaboration between intelligence agencies and the U.S. military. A small U.S. team made a helicopter raid on the compound. The White House report details the dangers associated with the task: high walls, security setup, the relatively settled location, and it being only 35 miles north of Islamabad.

    It took the U.S. team under 40 minutes in the compound to do its work. The only loss the U.S. sustained was one of the two helicopters used in the raid -- the crew members were able to board the remaining helicopter to get out. The total death toll was four adult males killed -- bin Laden, and supposedly the two couriers and bin Laden's son-- and one woman, who one of the men used as a human shield. Two women were also injured in the attack.

    Bin Laden, who resisted the assault force, met his death in a firefight by the most well-trained military in the world -- a testament to the great country he tried so hard to destroy.
    Last edited by Jackdog; 05-02-2011, 11:25 AM.
    NFL:Packers
    MLB:Reds/Tigers
    NHL:Red Wings
    NCAA:Michigan Wolverines.
    F-1: Ferrari.

    It's been a while OS. Hope all are doing well!

    Comment

    • ryan36
      7 dirty words...
      • Feb 2003
      • 10139

      #452
      Re: Bin Laden is dead!

      Originally posted by Jackdog
      I respect your opinion. Here's mine. It took 18 years and 3 administrations to bring this murderer to justice. In the meantime he's been behind the death of relatives and brothers in arms. I'm going to toast them with some Jamison today. I'm going to pray for the innocents that are going to die at the hands of his followers. As a soldier/vet I'm going to enjoy the moment because God knows there hasn't been a lot to celebrate in the last 10 years. In other words. I'm pretty damned happy today.
      JD, well said. I got some Jamison on my counter, too. I'm not going to suggest that Bin Laden's death is somehow morally wrong. Killing him finally has saved a lot of future lives. A lot of men and women gave their life the pursuit of him, and the fact that he could outmaneuver the best country in the world for nearly 2 decades shows how dangerous he was.

      But for me it's a still a life. If I had to pick between Bin Laden and you, I'd pick you It's not so much his death that bothers me- it's all death. It's that we still (and probably always will) live in a world where death is the check on which liberty is cashed in.

      But I'm gonna have a Budweiser for all our men and women who have fallen. At 8:30 AM. They've brought honor to our country, no doubt.

      Comment

      • ryan36
        7 dirty words...
        • Feb 2003
        • 10139

        #453
        Re: Bin Laden is dead!

        Let's not get too political , guys. I want this thread to stay open

        Comment

        • Trevytrev11
          MVP
          • Nov 2006
          • 3259

          #454
          Re: Bin Laden is dead!

          Originally posted by trobinson97
          This is my first and last post in this thread. It took reading to the end to see if someone was thinking what I was thinking. Spot on man, I agree with every single word, every single word. I've been feeling the same way. Not only do I feel uneasy about people actually celebrating, I feel even more uneasy when some people who aren't are being questioned and called out for it.
          I agree, but also understand that everyone accepts and reacts to major happenings in different ways. There is almost no right or wrong way to celebrate something of this magnitude.

          What makes me hesitant to want to jump up and down is the fact that after 9/11, they showed videos of people in the middle east doing just that after the towers fell and I just remember how mad and upset it made me feel to see them celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent people. I understand the situation and stakes were different, but that was the first thought that came to mind when I started seeing people celebrating....now with that being said, I'm sure if I was surrounded by that energy, I would have been doing the same thing.

          It's likely that some sort of retalliation is in the works and just hate to add fuel to that fire. Now, whether that is really going to make a difference is unlikely. I believe this was much more of a moral victory than anything else as he was much less of a factor to his followers than in the past.

          Can't wait until more of the details of this operation come out. Would love to get a play by play and some re-enactments of the mission.

          From what I saw on one of the news shows was that there looked to be 10-12 US soldiers split into two groups coming from two different directions against only 4 or 5 of the terrorists. Bin Laden picked up a weapon and was firing prior to being shot in the head and members of his group were using a female as a human shield. The left with Bin Laden and left the others there.

          Comment

          • DarkOzzy1
            Rookie
            • Jul 2004
            • 451

            #455
            Used a woman as a shield?? Jeeze did she make it out?
            Go Eagles!

            Comment

            • 23
              yellow
              • Sep 2002
              • 66469

              #456
              Re: Bin Laden is dead!

              If someone murdered family members of yours, you'd want that person to be caught and dealt with according to the law...afterall, laws are for the lawbreakers, correct?

              That said, im not down with the live tv street celebrations and crap

              I am wondering what kind of intel they pulled out of that place, thats something no one has mentioned yet, only retaliation, but what did we discover?

              Comment

              • TheDutchDad
                MVP
                • Apr 2004
                • 2814

                #457
                Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                Originally posted by 23
                If someone murdered family members of yours, you'd want that person to be caught and dealt with according to the law...afterall, laws are for the lawbreakers, correct?

                That said, im not down with the live tv street celebrations and crap

                I am wondering what kind of intel they pulled out of that place, thats something no one has mentioned yet, only retaliation, but what did we discover?
                Oh, I'm sure they got some real juicy stuff. They ransacked the place and took all the HDD out of the computers there. The amount of info they get will be invaluable. Info they got out of detainees in Gitmo led to all of this.

                Comment

                • TheDutchDad
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 2814

                  #458
                  Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                  Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                  I agree, but also understand that everyone accepts and reacts to major happenings in different ways. There is almost no right or wrong way to celebrate something of this magnitude.

                  What makes me hesitant to want to jump up and down is the fact that after 9/11, they showed videos of people in the middle east doing just that after the towers fell and I just remember how mad and upset it made me feel to see them celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent people. I understand the situation and stakes were different, but that was the first thought that came to mind when I started seeing people celebrating....now with that being said, I'm sure if I was surrounded by that energy, I would have been doing the same thing.

                  It's likely that some sort of retalliation is in the works and just hate to add fuel to that fire. Now, whether that is really going to make a difference is unlikely. I believe this was much more of a moral victory than anything else as he was much less of a factor to his followers than in the past.

                  Can't wait until more of the details of this operation come out. Would love to get a play by play and some re-enactments of the mission.

                  From what I saw on one of the news shows was that there looked to be 10-12 US soldiers split into two groups coming from two different directions against only 4 or 5 of the terrorists. Bin Laden picked up a weapon and was firing prior to being shot in the head and members of his group were using a female as a human shield. The left with Bin Laden and left the others there.
                  I understand what you are saying, but when you are comparing innocent civilians to a man who has been wanted for decades for the murders of countless innocents, you can't really underestimate the celebrations that are in order for that. People are absolutely right to celebrate that.

                  Comment

                  • Sportsforever
                    NL MVP
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 20368

                    #459
                    Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                    I think that everyone is going to react to this news differently and that is fine. Some will celebrate, others will cry, others will remember...they are all valid reactions.

                    For me, being military the last 12 years I have seen many friends/brothers work very hard to get this guy. Some of those friends/brothers gave their lives. This news causes me to remember all the times they weren't with their families, the hard work and sacrifice they made, and sometimes, the ultimate sacrifice that was made. If I celebrate, it is more in their memory and a celebration of their sacrifice and hard work, than it is that someone has died. Don't get me wrong, I don't shed a tear that OBL is dead, but my focus is more on my brothers and sisters in the service than on him.
                    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                    Comment

                    • Skyboxer
                      Donny Baseball!
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 20302

                      #460
                      Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                      Originally posted by DarkOzzy1
                      Used a woman as a shield?? Jeeze did she make it out?
                      No she did not....
                      Joshua:
                      "D.O.D. pension files indicate current mailing as: Dr. Robert Hume,
                      a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


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                      Comment

                      • Trevytrev11
                        MVP
                        • Nov 2006
                        • 3259

                        #461
                        Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                        Originally posted by Mercurial23
                        I understand what you are saying, but when you are comparing innocent civilians to a man who has been wanted for decades for the murders of countless innocents, you can't really underestimate the celebrations that are in order for that. People are absolutely right to celebrate that.
                        Yeah, I hear ya. I'm not trying to say we are more right or less wrong or less right and more wrong than they are in this case and I know there is no right or wrong way to celebrate...just that this was the first thing that popped in my head... To be clear, I definitely get goose bumps and feel proud to be an American when I see people outside the white house sining the national anthem and seeing 40,000+ at a baseball game start chanting "USA-USA"...again, it was just the first thing I thought of.

                        Comment

                        • TheDutchDad
                          MVP
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 2814

                          #462
                          Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                          Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                          Yeah, I hear ya. I'm not trying to say we are more right or less wrong or less right and more wrong than they are in this case and I know there is no right or wrong way to celebrate...just that this was the first thing that popped in my head... To be clear, I definitely get goose bumps and feel proud to be an American when I see people outside the white house sining the national anthem and seeing 40,000+ at a baseball game start chanting "USA-USA"...again, it was just the first thing I thought of.
                          Heck ya! That was awesome at the Mets-Phillies game last night. I love baseball for the tradition it has, and it's always been a game to me that the players and fans have a deep respect for our country and to hear the fans chant that last night was awesome!

                          Comment

                          • Po Pimp
                            MVP
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 2249

                            #463
                            Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                            Bin Laden deserved what was coming to him, but all of the celebration is a bit over the top for me. The terrorists followers celebrated when the towers fell, and now we're celebrating Bin Laden's death...what makes our celebration any different or right? Terrorism can not be traced to a particular point, as it's always existed and will continue to do so, so what are we celebrating? The majority of those celebrating so wildly are college students who were children at the time of the tragedy...they don't even understand the magnitude of what happened.

                            I liken this to whenever a serial killer is executed. The FAMILIES of those who lost loved ones receive closure and feel justice is served, but they don't act jubilant...yet there's a crowd of people holding signs and screaming for blood who didn't know any of the parties involved. It's a very barbaric sense of mind.

                            Comment

                            • Buckeyes_Doc
                              In Dalton I Trust
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 11918

                              #464
                              Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                              Originally posted by Po Pimp
                              The majority of those celebrating so wildly are college students who were children at the time of the tragedy...they don't even understand the magnitude of what happened.
                              I'm not in college but I'm 22 and was 13 on Sep 11, 2001 and I understood what happened.
                              Ohio State - Reds - Bengals - Blackhawks - Bulls

                              Comment

                              • 23
                                yellow
                                • Sep 2002
                                • 66469

                                #465
                                Re: Bin Laden is dead!

                                Thought this was funny


                                I guess in some sense it all means something to us all, regardless of being young or not. I was young when the Challenger exploded, but I remember watching it on the news like yesterday. I wanted to be an astronaut until that moment.

                                I believe I was in elementary school at the time that happened, but its etched in my mind, so I would just go out on a limb and say this would be no different

                                Comment

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