Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

[Cletus]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Sports games are getting worse basically because the 2nd place guys turned out to be the "winner" of the exclusive deal. Madden wasn't that great on ps2 from a realism standpoint until 05. 2k baseball is/was 2k baseball. I didn't care for 2k5 but 2k tried things that EA would never have tried.
As for as Soccer and Hockey go, they seem to be similar in that the 2nd place company outworked the other guys. EA refined the skill stick and added the EASHL. Say what you want about it, it's a big money maker for the company. I remember when FIFA was a joke, literally, and that company has worked their butt off the completely refine the game.
As a whole, the landscaped has changed and it's basically the same as it was a few years ago except that the most popular games are worse and have no competition. There's only so much you can play of one sport or one genre until not pushing the envelope makes you realize that it's repetitive. Also, the fact that most of the major EA Sports titles have had bugs doesn't make the future seem bright.

[Graphik]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I think its been pointed out already and I'll point it out again, we as gamers have been supporting these devs who rush out a beta-style projects only to depend heavily on patches, community work and slider fixes. While I do enjoy good community work, the work should be about deepening an already worthwhile game experience. Instead, we are merely fixing broken games while waiting months for patches.

On one hand, I understand that devs have "higher powers" that require the release of a project "as-is" to beat a deadline, on the other hand, I wish these companies were'nt so greedy that they need to release a new sports game each and every year. To be honest, I would have been perfectly fine with a roster-updated 2K11 as I felt the game was near perfect. Fix the games flaws and I would have been golden.

I've been gaming long enough to realize that yearly iterations of sports games aren't really needed. For the simple fact that we all know that sports games need more than a year to reach its fullest potential. In the long run, it would make DLC much more worth it and we'd have near perfect games on our hands. If some of us can play certain sports games for years after its release (NFL2K, MVP, PES) then we can become accustomed to waiting 2 years for a new title. What do you guys think?

[NYJets]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I think there would be benefits to releasing every other year. We'd save money and we would see more progress. But I still think most people expect too much these days. I still think the complaining would be the same.

I loved the 2K football series so I'm not trying to bash it. But if a game today came out with issues like the DB AI in 2K5, the broken tackles in 2K4, that issue in 2K4 where the would be a forcefield around the ballhandler when they went down the sideline, or all the franchise mode issues from both games, everyone would declare the game broken and unplayable until it was patched. Now, when games have certain plays that don't work well enough or certain plays that work too well, we demand a patch. Or if the computer running game isn't good enough we demand a patch. Stuff like this has always plagued sports games. These aren't new issues that are there because developers are lazy and can patch them, just in the past we either dealt with them, found a way to workaround them, or just stopped playing.

Now, if we are talking football specifically, I sure don't think they are getting worse, but maybe they haven't been advancing as fast as they should be. But that's one issue with one company, that's not the genre as a whole.

[mgoblue]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I think there would be benefits to releasing every other year. We'd save money and we would see more progress. But I still think most people expect too much these days. I still think the complaining would be the same.

I loved the 2K football series so I'm not trying to bash it. But if a game today came out with issues like the DB AI in 2K5, the broken tackles in 2K4, that issue in 2K4 where the would be a forcefield around the ballhandler when they went down the sideline, or all the franchise mode issues from both games, everyone would declare the game broken and unplayable until it was patched. Now, when games have certain plays that don't work well enough or certain plays that work too well, we demand a patch. Or if the computer running game isn't good enough we demand a patch. Stuff like this has always plagued sports games. These aren't new issues that are there because developers are lazy and can patch them, just in the past we either dealt with them, found a way to workaround them, or just stopped playing.

Now, if we are talking football specifically, I sure don't think they are getting worse, but maybe they haven't been advancing as fast as they should be. But that's one issue with one company, that's not the genre as a whole.

I agree, Jets...I personally think the games are as flawed as they have been (anyone remember Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl? lol)...we're just way more nit picky, and with the internet we communicate and learn more about bugs we'd never know otherwise.

Think about it...back in even the PS1 era you'd only see the bugs you experience on the game yourself. Now you have people who run simulations testing for errors (especially in franchise modes)....If any little thing is noticed you can go to a "Bug/Glitch thread" and read about stuff you probably wouldn't notice yourself.

I know people here will disagree, and I respect that, I just think that we're much more adept at both 1) seeing the bugs and 2) communicating and bitching about said bugs than we were years ago.

[youvalss]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Let's try to think about it this way:

1) How long it would have taken you to find the bugs/problems with NBA 2K12 (that you find today after 3-4 games) - 10 years ago?

2) How long would it take you to find problems with games from 10 years ago if played today?


My guess:

1) Some after dozens (hundred) games, some - never - would never ever be thought about.

2) 3-5 seconds.


In other words, I don't think games are worse. It's just that everyone got a PHD in Sports Gaming 4-5 years ago. Professors (developers) got nothing to teach anymore.


Does it answer the thread's question? I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about it this way.

[Jr.]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Let's try to think about it this way:

1) How long it would have taken you to find the bugs/problems with NBA 2K12 (that you find today after 3-4 games) - 10 years ago?

2) How long would it take you to find problems with games from 10 years ago if played today?


My guess:

1) Some after dozens (hundred) games, some - never - would never ever be thought about.

2) 3-5 seconds.


In other words, I don't think games are worse. It's just that everyone got a PHD in Sports Gaming 4-5 years ago. Professors (developers) got nothing to teach anymore.


Does it answer the thread's question? I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about it this way.

It's the nature of the world we live in now. Everyone is an expert on everything.

I purposefully avoid bug/glitch threads because I usually don't notice the majority of things people point out if I don't know about them.

[12]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Question for you guys who write the articles and reviews we love andwho play the games like we do....I've been looking through the forums and seeing all the horribly flawed games being put out for us sports fanatics. Major flaws...Bugs that should not be there. Time and time again it's us, the consumer, who keep getting ripped by these companies.

I am as guilty as the next guy, until this year when I finally decided enough's enough. I can't afford to shell out 60 a pop to get these untested, unsupported pieces of....well, you know.

So my question to you guys is this, what can be done anymore? The companies don't listen to the forums, don't listen to your reviews and don't respond to any inquiries regarding their horrible products.

Is sports gaming dying? The quality, in many cases, has already died.

It's a shame for I can only take so many shooters and wish to get a sports product that not only works correctly but can help me escape life for an hour at a time.

I think to a point, yes. The exclusive licenses, in my mind, have caused so much harm to the sports gaming world. When you have no competition, you may still try and put out a good product, but that sense of urgency to produce high quality games to combat your competitors is gone. We've seen it with Madden and NCAA Football and we've seen it with the MLB2K series. With baseball, there is MLB: The Show, but that's an exclusive title with the PS3 so 360 users are stuck with one game.

Speaking of The Show - despite my overall feelings on the current state of sports gaming, it is refreshing to truly feel like this game is the best sports game that I've ever played. Hopefully it continues to grow as well.

I blame exclusivity above all else. It is a shame that it exists. If we want to play an NFL football game, we're stuck with Madden. If we want to play a college football game, we're stuck with NCAA Football. There's no other options and each company sets their own bar. Like I said, I still think they try to churn out a great product, but all too often, we're not satisfied. Yet, the companies know we'll buy because they read forums like this and they know most of us have to have our fix.

I also look at the economy. I know some people don't think it's a factor, but my gaming time has gone down and my ability to buy all of the games that I used to buy is not there. I have a good job and can support my family and still put money in savings, but we're not rich, so I have to be careful with "extra" purchases. Bad economy = less sales, but I could be wrong on that because I don't keep up with sales numbers. But if that's true, that limits resources and man power that companies utilize to make great products.

I definitely hope sports gaming improves, but it's going to be a steep hill to climb, I think.

[12]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Very valid points.

You have to remember its not all sports games that have "died." The MLB The Show franchise seems to be alive and well. They listen to their fan base probably more than any other company making sports games. They continue to make their game better every year imo.

A lot of people also like what EA has done with FIFA and NHL.

As far as football, well that's really the main issue for most people I think. I'm hoping with the next gen systems upcoming, they can learn from their mistakes with the last system transfer.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the Madden team has undergone a lot of changes in the last few months. Their development team has been doubled, they hired a "football czar" to oversee the quality of the game, they brought in the former head of MLB the Show to be their Creative Director. So maybe this is a turning point.

I guess we will find out in the next year or so. It really is make or break time for football imo.

That's definitely great news and I was excited when I read that. I think we can expect Madden to improve steadily over the next 2-3 years. I hope NCAA Football can follow suit, because I see potential in both titles but they are limping along right now quality-wise.

[12]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Are sports games really getting worse or are we just expecting perfection?

Mixture of both, definitely.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I agree that the times and different ways of media have led to easier communication and complaining compared from years past.
However that doesnt change the NBA Elite was so bad it was canceled, MLB2K has been up and down etc..
So yeah we may be more critical in a bad way but that doesnt change the status some of these games are in.
Totally agree the nitpicking is way to much but things like tendencies being reversed, NCCA BASKETBALL 10 having the never pass out of the post glitch that EA decided to move on to another project and not fix all give gamers a bad taste in their mouth.

So I guess there are faults on both sides of the fence but bottom line for me is some games have made little strides this gen.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I have stopped buying titles in consecutive years and it has helped...alot.

Bought NBA2K11 (loved it) and skipped NBA2K12 (so very glad I did).
Bought Madden 12...skipping 13.
Bought NCAA 12...skipping 13.
Bought FIFA 11...skipped 12.

I have also stopped buying games on Day 1. Buying a game on Day 1 is just a recipe for disaster in this day and age of Patches. You're basically getting a Beta version (post-Demo version) to play for 2 weeks with glitches galore and non-updated rosters.

In between all those skips above...I've branched out of sports gaming and bought games like Red Dead Redemption and Call of Duty MW which I put more playing time into than any sports games for the last 3-4 years.

[Graphik]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I have stopped buying titles in consecutive years and it has helped...alot.

Bought NBA2K11 (loved it) and skipped NBA2K12 (so very glad I did).
Bought Madden 12...skipping 13.
Bought NCAA 12...skipping 13.
Bought FIFA 11...skipped 12.

I have also stopped buying games on Day 1. Buying a game on Day 1 is just a recipe for disaster in this day and age of Patches. You're basically getting a Beta version (post-Demo version) to play for 2 weeks with glitches galore and non-updated rosters.

In between all those skips above...I've branched out of sports gaming and bought games like Red Dead Redemption and Call of Duty MW which I put more playing time into than any sports games for the last 3-4 years.

Same here, I found alot of quality titles in non-sports games. All because of exclusive sports gaming. I cant say I skip years purposely. These very forums have saved me from buying trash. I haven't bought Madden since 09. Only played MLB 2K9 and 2K11 respectively but buy NBA 2K each year as its the only 360 sports game that gets the most praise each year.

I never buy games on release day and I dont even follow the hype like I used to.

[Graphik]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Let's try to think about it this way:

1) How long it would have taken you to find the bugs/problems with NBA 2K12 (that you find today after 3-4 games) - 10 years ago?

2) How long would it take you to find problems with games from 10 years ago if played today?


My guess:

1) Some after dozens (hundred) games, some - never - would never ever be thought about.

2) 3-5 seconds.


In other words, I don't think games are worse. It's just that everyone got a PHD in Sports Gaming 4-5 years ago. Professors (developers) got nothing to teach anymore.


Does it answer the thread's question? I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about it this way.

I agree with this as well. It seems we are all beta testers and find and report whatever issues, whether they be aesthetic or AI related and it can totally destory the entire vibe of a game. NBA Elite is a prime example. 10 years ago before forums and discussion boards, EA would have released that game. No doubt in my mind. And I'm willing to bet that there would have been a fan base of people of thoroughly enjoyed the game, flaws and all.

Since there are discussion boards and forums, developers are put in a lose/lose situation because we ARE...gonna find something wrong with the game. Its almost impossible not to. At the same time, devs know this and use it to their advantage. Why hire a huge crew of testers when the consumers are willing to test and report all bugs and gltiches? Saves them money, time and they can release a game in whatever state it is in to meet a deadline.

[rspencer86]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

I have stopped buying titles in consecutive years and it has helped...alot.

Bought NBA2K11 (loved it) and skipped NBA2K12 (so very glad I did).
Bought Madden 12...skipping 13.
Bought NCAA 12...skipping 13.
Bought FIFA 11...skipped 12.

I have also stopped buying games on Day 1. Buying a game on Day 1 is just a recipe for disaster in this day and age of Patches. You're basically getting a Beta version (post-Demo version) to play for 2 weeks with glitches galore and non-updated rosters.

In between all those skips above...I've branched out of sports gaming and bought games like Red Dead Redemption and Call of Duty MW which I put more playing time into than any sports games for the last 3-4 years.

Agreed 100000%. I have been beating this drum for a while now.

Why does everyone seem compelled to buy these titles every single year? Did you sign a contract in blood with EA and 2K?

People keep begging these developers to go to a two-year dev cycle. Forget it. Not going to happen. Might as well ask for the games to be free — that's about as likely. They are making more money selling a new title every year than they would putting out a title every other year.

If you really want a two-year cycle, buy the game every other year. Yes, I know that's not exactly the same as the devs really utilizing a two-year cycle. But think about the benefits:

• Save money
• Spend less time messing with sliders, rosters, etc.
• Have more time to really explore other modes of the game. Have you really dug into Road To The Show mode? Or My Player mode?
• Have more time to get deeper into franchise modes. How many of you are able to play more than one season in NBA or MLB games?
• When you do buy, there are now two iterations worth of improvements, making your purchase seem like a better value

And like bigeast said, why buy on release? Sure there is the initial excitement, but then a lot of your time is spent waiting for rosters, patches, sliders, etc. It's good to hold off for a month or two, let all of that stuff sort itself out, and save $20 as well.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with sports games. Is there room for improvement? Hell yes. Should we demand better, more realistic, more innovative titles? Absolutely.

These games are not and cannot be perfect representations of the sports they imitate. Let that sink in. OK, now go enjoy them. I still play NBA 2K11 every day. Wrapping up my second season in Association and I love it. MLB 11 is incredible.

And I'm tired of hearing "online" blamed for all of sports videogames' problems. The ability to play online and receive updates and patches is fantastic. I'm having the most fun I've ever had playing a football game in playing in the Madden OS Vets Online Franchise. I hope the NBA and MLB games step it up and really give us smooth, feature-rich online franchises for those games as well. Playing the CPU can be a lot of fun, but it can never match what going up against a bunch of friends or like-minded sports fans can offer.

OS is great, but you can get too caught up in finding bugs, creating wish lists, testing slider theories, etc. I've found my enjoyment level goes up as my involvement in the game's subforums goes down.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Sports Gaming Continues to Get Worse?

Preach

The thing about going deeper into franchise modes is so true.

Usually you buy a game, start a season, play it for awhile, find a couple of things about it that you just don't like and then put it on the shelf because you know in a few months either another game will take your interest or a new version of that game will be coming out.

In reality, you just blew $60.

The last time I really went deep into a season was probably NBA 2K8...no lie.