Awkward job interviews

[JazzMan]

Re: Awkward job interviews

There's obviously good & bad extremes in both scenarios, but typically, wouldn't you expect an employee in their 50s to be able to handle things better than someone in their 20s? Not saying it's true of all people, or of all professions, but on average that's how I see it.

As someone in my 20s, I am offended and I demand a week off from work so I can recollect my emotions.

[Speedy]

Re: Awkward job interviews

From my personal experience though, I have 10 times more trouble with employees younger than me than with my employees older than myself.

My experience has been the opposite: old geysers who refuse to learn or accept change. I had one woman confront me in a training session of 50+ people that, after I spent countless hours on an automation project for the entire department, it's not for her and she's not using it. After facing possible termination from management however (being it was delivering substantial FTE savings and she wasn't exactly the cream of the crop anyways), she reconsidered.

[kehlis]

Re: Awkward job interviews

My experience has been the opposite: old geysers who refuse to learn or accept change. I had one woman confront me in a training session of 50+ people that, after I spent countless hours on an automation project for the entire department, it's not for her and she's not using it. After facing possible termination from management however (being it was delivering substantial FTE savings and she wasn't exactly the cream of the crop anyways), she reconsidered.

I don't disagree and that's not what I was talking about. If you check the post I quoted and then subsequent posts I wasn't talking about general performance or work habits.

I was referring to things like time and attendance, general professionalism, and a weird sense of entitlement.

Trust me, some of my elder employees are incredibly resistant to any change so I completely agree with you in that regard.

[Speedy]

Re: Awkward job interviews

...that's not what I was talking about. If you check the post I quoted and then subsequent posts I wasn't talking about general performance or work habits.

I was referring to things like time and attendance, general professionalism, and a weird sense of entitlement.

I know what you were referring to. My statement still stands that I find more issues with older folks at my job.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Awkward job interviews

Does that make it okay though?

Not in my opinion. Age should represent experience and knowledge. Not reliability/prefessionalism. Those are both things you need zero experience to do.

Just need to decide to do it.

I think the two go hand in hand to a degree. With experience comes reliability and especially professionalism. With recent graduates, you're talking about people who up to this point have for the most part dealt only with their peers and have done nothing but go to school. How would they know how to be professional when they've never really been asked to do it before? Aside from group projects which most people hate, you've never really had the responsibility of an assignment that would affect the number of people that something at a company would. It can be like being dropped in a foreign country without knowing the language.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Awkward job interviews

With recent graduates, you're talking about people who up to this point have for the most part dealt only with their peers and have done nothing but go to school. How would they know how to be professional when they've never really been asked to do it before?

They don't work before they start college or even while they were at school though? Shoot, learning how to be professional is something you can learn even before you go to college, especially nowadays.

If that's the case, I'd say it's more like being dropped in a foreign country but only knowing basic terms like "Hello", "Goodbye", "How are you", etc but still not able to have a full conversation in that other language just yet.

With experience comes reliability and especially professionalism.

Not necessarily, but that also depends on what the job is as well.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Awkward job interviews

No, a lot of people don't work before they get to college and in it. How to be professional is definitely something you can learn, but you then have to ask yourself when people would learn it, and how many people are being exposed to those opportunities. If you learn how to be a professional from this place, did everyone go there? As soon as something needs to be taught, I assume it wasn't and that it needs to be. Then who was the teacher? Were they teaching good or bad habits? If someone has been working longer, they've been in a position where they've been exposed to different leading styles and been held to different standards.

Of course not in every instance, but if I'm going to war, I wouldn't expect the new soldier to be as prepared as the veteran. I'd expect him to be nervous. He would be more likely 9 times out of 10 to make a mistake.

[Majingir]

Re: Awkward job interviews

I think the two go hand in hand to a degree. With experience comes reliability and especially professionalism. With recent graduates, you're talking about people who up to this point have for the most part dealt only with their peers and have done nothing but go to school. How would they know how to be professional when they've never really been asked to do it before? Aside from group projects which most people hate, you've never really had the responsibility of an assignment that would affect the number of people that something at a company would. It can be like being dropped in a foreign country without knowing the language.

Exactly. Being in school VS working is 2 diff environments. Even just the people in general you are with at school, they are around your age, speak certain ways, act certain ways, and you might only really work on projects before /after class and just communicate through text and email. And you got diff schedules than people too and might be in diff groups in diff classes, so you can't really do much in person. At work, it's diff kinds of people, diff expectations, and you're expected to do stuff during the day itself with people, unlike school projects where people slack off and might have you up till 1-2am working on it the night before its due.

No, a lot of people don't work before they get to college and in it. How to be professional is definitely something you can learn, but you then have to ask yourself when people would learn it, and how many people are being exposed to those opportunities. If you learn how to be a professional from this place, did everyone go there? As soon as something needs to be taught, I assume it wasn't and that it needs to be. Then who was the teacher? Were they teaching good or bad habits? If someone has been working longer, they've been in a position where they've been exposed to different leading styles and been held to different standards.

Of course not in every instance, but if I'm going to war, I wouldn't expect the new soldier to be as prepared as the veteran. I'd expect him to be nervous. He would be more likely 9 times out of 10 to make a mistake.

That's also why jobs have experience requirements. If there wasn't a big difference between people, then it wouldn't matter if someone is a new employee out of college or one who has been in field 10+ years. But experience is what is favored so often for obvious reasons.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Awkward job interviews

No, a lot of people don't work before they get to college and in it.

Yeah, I can't buy that. I'm not saying every single High Schooler or person in College is working or has working experience, I just can't buy the notion that they're not working a job until after they're done with school. Hell, you have people out here working to pay just to GO to school and get them thru school as well.

Of course, you have exceptions like Athletes that play sports(more specifically Football/Basketball) or Mom/Dad taking care of you, but I doubt most of them are graduating college entering the work force for the first time EVER. Especially now, where a degree doesn't hold as much weight as it used to. I got kids on my HS Football team working now and the only reason I know that is because I had one of them say he had to miss practice because he couldn't approval to take off the next day after putting it in the day before, lol.

How to be professional is definitely something you can learn, but you then have to ask yourself when people would learn it, and how many people are being exposed to those opportunities.

They start teaching basic **** like how to write a resume or how to dress for a job interview in HS now And if you play sports, then you're definitely learning about it when it comes to meeting recruiters and such.. And even outside of school, you're still learning Family/Friends/Coaches.

HOW it's being taught is another issue itself, I'll say that.

Exactly. Being in school VS working is 2 diff environments. Even just the people in general you are with at school, they are around your age, speak certain ways, act certain ways, and you might only really work on projects before /after class and just communicate through text and email. And you got diff schedules than people too and might be in diff groups in diff classes, so you can't really do much in person. At work, it's diff kinds of people, diff expectations, and you're expected to do stuff during the day itself with people, unlike school projects where people slack off and might have you up till 1-2am working on it the night before its due. That's also why jobs have experience requirements. If there wasn't a big difference between people, then it wouldn't matter if someone is a new employee out of college or one who has been in field 10+ years. But experience is what is favored so often for obvious reasons.

There's a reason why the statement, "It's not what you know but who you know" in regards to trying to find a job, holds more weight now than it did.

If you know the right people, you'll more than likely get that particular than the person who may be more qualified than you are.

[Majingir]

Re: Awkward job interviews

Yeah, I gotta call BS on that. I'm not saying every single High Schooler or person in College is working or has working experience, I just can't buy the notion that they're not working a job until after they're done with school. Hell, you have people out here working to pay just to GO to school and get them thru school as well.

Even then, if you're working in HS, it's not the most professional of jobs. HS type jobs are the minimum wage, minimal effort type ones like McDonalds or grocery stores and stuff. Still a much diff environment than if you're an office worker, become a teacher, work in construction, a warehouse, hospital or anything like that.

HS it's rarer to find ones who have jobs, but College people do work much more. Another one of the reasons I was mentioning why people have such diff schedules. Working on a group project with someone who has a diff school schedule than you, and trying to fit in a proper work time when people have work too, it's near impossible which is why people have to stay up late/text & email stuff to actually work together.

They start teaching basic **** like how to write a resume or how to dress for a job interview in HS now.

HOW it's being taught is another issue itself, I'll say that.

There's a reason why the statement, "It's not what you know but who you know" in regards to trying to find a job, holds more weight now than it did.

If you know the right people, you'll more than likely get that particular than the person who may be more qualified than you are.

Back when I was in HS(lol,I'm making me sound old) they didn't really do that. They did it on a very basic level but that was it. But that's the problem with schools though. English class you're learning about Shakespeare and Frankenstein and stuff like that. They need to make English class about writing resumes/cover letters, office memos, proper formatting/referencing for college papers and so on. I'd rather have learnt that in HS than know what act/scene Hamlet said a certain line, and learn how to present a scene from shakespeare on stage for the class(yes,it's english class I'm still talking about)

The "who you know" statement I hate because I don't know anybody like that. Anyone my age is obviously in a similar spot so if they do have jobs, they don't got any kind of pull to say anything. And older family I know, none have that kind of pull either. Furthest I got was a resume sent in to one office just for general postings, but they all want like 3-5 years experience in fields. Try getting experience for a job when most of these jobs all require experience. I've even seen minimum wage job postings requiring a years experience in certain fields.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Awkward job interviews

Yeah, I can't buy that. I'm not saying every single High Schooler or person in College is working or has working experience, I just can't buy the notion that they're not working a job until after they're done with school. Hell, you have people out here working to pay just to GO to school and get them thru school as well.

Of course, you have exceptions like Athletes that play sports(more specifically Football/Basketball) or Mom/Dad taking care of you, but I doubt most of them are graduating college entering the work force for the first time EVER. Especially now, where a degree doesn't hold as much weight as it used to. I got kids on my HS Football team working now and the only reason I know that is because I had one of them say he had to miss practice because he couldn't approval to take off the next day after putting it in the day before, lol.


They start teaching basic **** like how to write a resume or how to dress for a job interview in HS now And if you play sports, then you're definitely learning about it when it comes to meeting recruiters and such.. And even outside of school, you're still learning Family/Friends/Coaches.

HOW it's being taught is another issue itself, I'll say that.

It makes more sense to me to assume people have nothing, which they more often do, than that they have all that stuff. Lots of people don't play sports. Tons of people either don't have parents who can teach them these skills or their parents just haven't.

And like Maj said, the jobs you get at that point in life do not teach professionalism. You think people are learning how to be professional from Wendy's? What about professionalism was I gonna learn working part time at Home Depot rushing after class, ignoring my work and stressing over a Final I had to study for? I could make an argument that working during school can lead to this being more of a problem.

I just graduated high school in 2011 and was not taught a thing about how to write a resume by my school. My little brother is in high school right now and has not been taught how to write a resume or how to dress for work. What you're talking about are opportunities that not everyone has or are aware of.

I also think this is kinda a garbage topic and that the vast majority of people are completely unprofessional. But that's another issue.

[Majingir]

Re: Awkward job interviews

And in HS, you're used to all adults around you being teachers or something of that level. So working with adults will make things feel weird at first too, not knowing how exactly to work with them since you're viewed more like equals as employees more than a student would be viewed compared to a teacher.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Awkward job interviews

Spoiler

The "who you know" statement I hate because I don't know anybody like that. Anyone my age is obviously in a similar spot so if they do have jobs, they don't got any kind of pull to say anything. And older family I know, none have that kind of pull either. Furthest I got was a resume sent in to one office just for general postings, but they all want like 3-5 years experience in fields. Try getting experience for a job when most of these jobs all require experience. I've even seen minimum wage job postings requiring a years experience in certain fields.

I do and I have.

One of my previous jobs(doing security for the Government, which requires a Federal Clearance, which they don't just give to anybody either)I only got because I happened to have a Cousin who worked in the force. I had ZERO experience in Security whatsoever but got in because I had a family member that was there and knew someone in the building where I worked at(on a Military Base, mind you)which allowed me to get my clearance, which I've had going on 6 years now.

If I was Regular Joe Schmoe, I'd probably still be waiting to hear back if I got the position or the clearance. So YOU can hate it all you want, but to deny that it's not true or accurate would be very naive.

Lots of people don't play sports. Tons of people either don't have parents who can teach them these skills or their parents just haven't.

I've acknowledged that hence me mentioning others as well. If not Parents or Coaches then then you also have Guidance Counselors or to a lesser extent, even the Barber Shop where you can learn damn near everything. In all seriousness, there are definitely available options to pick up some of this stuff.

You think people are learning how to be professional from Wendy's? What about professionalism was I gonna learn working part time at Home Depot rushing after class, ignoring my work and stressing over a Final I had to study for? I could make an argument that working during school can lead to this being more of a problem.

Well, you also said "a lot of people don't work before they get to college and in it".

But nah serious, you have to learn even the BASICS(which I said earlier)even working jobs like that. Unless you're going to places and the first thing they say to you as a customer is "Wassup Mother*****, what the **** you want from this dirty *** spot?"

I just graduated high school in 2011 and was not taught a thing about how to write a resume by my school. My little brother is in high school right now and has not been taught how to write a resume or how to dress for work. What you're talking about are opportunities that not everyone has or are aware of.

I graudated in 2005 and went to school in SE DC and PG County(where you're already at a severe disadvantage but that's another issue for another day), two of the hardest places in the country as far as trying to learn about these types of tools where they would HELP US the MOST out of anybody and still learned how to do the things I mentioned earlier. Did I have to go seek this out? Of course, because waiting around wasn't going to solve anything nor benefit me. And that was at a time where finding those opportunities were ridiculously hard to come by.

So yeah, we know about the opportunities but at the end of the day, it's on us to go and get them, not just wait for them to come.

I also think this is kinda a garbage topic and that the vast majority of people are completely unprofessional. But that's another issue.

It's not a garbage topic at all. Always enjoy having discussions like this. I just took issue the earlier notion of Nobody working until they're finished College.

And in HS, you're used to all adults around you being teachers or something of that level. So working with adults will make things feel weird at first too, not knowing how exactly to work with them since you're viewed more like equals as employees more than a student would be viewed compared to a teacher.

And most of those teachers like damn near early-mid 20s so it's not like THEY can't relate to some students either. This isn't like old days where you're Teachers were 20 years older than you, lol.

How old are you though?

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Awkward job interviews

A lot of people don't work in college and in it. I didn't give a percentage but I can guarantee some large number of kids have not had a job. There was just an article in the Atlantic on how cell phone use is changing generations where they mention that the number of high school kids doing things like getting drivers licenses, having sex, and getting jobs is going down as people stay inside and **** around on their phones all day. This is a fact, not an anecdote.

Waiting around isn't going to benefit you but that isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not you knew the information. Until you went out to learn it, you did not know it. If someone doesn't go out to learn it, they won't. It's as simple as that. As soon as something isn't mandatory and requires supplemental effort, you've probably lost half the audience.

I mean a garbage topic because the underlying premise is difficult to nail down. Someone could say it's unprofessional that newer startups don't require their employees to wear suits. What is professional is always changing.

[Majingir]

Re: Awkward job interviews

If I was Regular Joe Schmoe, I'd probably still be waiting to hear back if I got the position or the clearance. So YOU can hate it all you want, but to deny that it's not true or accurate would be very naive.

And most of those teachers like damn near early-mid 20s so it's not like THEY can't relate to some students either. This isn't like old days where you're Teachers were 20 years older than you, lol.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm saying I hate it because I know it is true. Don't have that "foot in the door" opportunity available to me so I'm one of those many people companies always pass over cause I have no connections, regardless if I might have the education and/or work experience they're looking for.

HS teachers aren't mid 20s, at least none I've seen(substitute teachers possibly,but that's it). 30s at youngest, but even then, in HS that's like twice your age. Still, they're viewed as older and an authority like figure to you. So stepping into workplace where someone around that age or older is now your peer and not someone who you can really go to for help/guidance like you might've with a teacher is abit of an adjustment.

And I disagree with "old days" thing regarding teachers. Older teachers(and people of many other professions too) not wanting(or able) to retire, hurting younger people from getting that job, and if they do retire, they return as subs, which still hurts younger teachers who are trying to break in to the profession but can't because even sub jobs are filled by old teachers.