Work From Home (WFH) Thread

[pietasterp]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

We were given notice a couple weeks ago that we might not be returning to the office at all this year, and on a separate town hall some things were said which could which implied that even when things are back to normal they won't really be "normal". I'm expecting that even when things are back to normal that we will have a sizable number of employees working remotely.

I love working from home, sleeping in a bit later, not spending an hour or more of my day in traffic to go 7 miles each way, and keeping miles off my car. I do miss being in the office occasionally though. It's harder to stay connected with people through Teams, and I do miss being able to walk to the next office to walk someone through a problem. I'm hoping that when things return to normal that we just have an overall shift in corporate culture. There are advantages to being in an office environment, but it doesn't need to be every day. It doesn't need to be a standard 40 hours a week either for that matter, but I guess that's a separate discussion.

I definitely think this will be the case at most workplaces that don't require people on-site by virtue of the nature of the job. I also think people would voluntarily come into the office a few days a week if given the option, precisely for the reasons you mentioned.

There will be other "hidden" pressures to get back in the office at some point, though. Promotions, for example - it's harder to justify promotions for people that are not particularly "visible" or that people don't particularly know. I'm not saying that's right or justifying that way of thinking, but my experience is definitely that 'out of sight, out of mind' is a factor when it comes to upward mobility.

[KSUowls]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

I'm curious where others are at with this now a year and a half after the start of the pandemic because a few things don't make sense to me.

I have been fully remote since March of last year, and my company's official communication has been that whenever things go back to normal it won't be "normal". We are looking at basically 1 day a week (if needed) in the office with a shared type work space. Because our fortune 500 company hasn't seen any productivity loss and surprisingly (/s) employee feedback has been that they really like working from home.

My wife has been mostly remote but has to go in a few times a month whenever certain things are happening at the lab.

All but one of my friends are still at least 90% remote.

Despite this, traffic here in Atlanta has returned to pre-covid levels. Also, I've been keeping my eyes open for new job opportunities for the last 9 months or so, with a few interviews and speaking with quite a few different recruiters. The near universal feedback has been that there is no current commitment to a remote work environment going forward. I actually turned down a job offer in January that was very intriguing to me otherwise, because even as of January 2021 they still don't know if they were committed to remote work in a post covid life.

I spoke with a recruiter a couple of hours ago, and even now 15 months after the initial shutdowns...He had what sounded like an exciting opportunity. The office is currently remote, but the plan is to return to the office once things normalize.

So, while my own network is mostly remote, and scrolling through thoughts in this thread from a year ago the thinking was that WFH was the future, I'm just not seeing it in many places that I thought I would. Is that the case with others too?

[Majingir]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

I'm curious where others are at with this now a year and a half after the start of the pandemic because a few things don't make sense to me.

....

So, while my own network is mostly remote, and scrolling through thoughts in this thread from a year ago the thinking was that WFH was the future, I'm just not seeing it in many places that I thought I would. Is that the case with others too?

Sadly this has been my fear/prediction not just about WFH, but just society in general post pandemic.

Despite everything, once things return to normal, they basically will be normal, as if nothing happened, and people/businesses don't learn or grow from that.

To me, WFH options tells a lot about the business. If you're for sure wanting every last person to come back like normal and don't see any value in WFH in jobs where that can actually be an option, that says a lot about the people in charge/culture of the company.

Feels like the companies which are allowing for more flexibility seem to be the ones with a better overall culture.

Like I said in another thread here, I don't have a WFH type of job, but if I did, I'd absolutely love at least having the option. Not exclusively WFH (unless it ends up being some job real far away), but let's say you have 1 or 2 mandatory work in the office days and the rest are optional. That gives people a good mix. If you want to go in person for 5 days, go ahead. If you want to go every other day, that's fine too. If you want to have a day where the morning is in person, then the afternoon is at home (accepting the longer workday to accommodate for the X amount of unpaid minutes it would take to go from work to home), that's fine as well.

At least that's how I would run things.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

We've been told by corporate to plan to go back into the office after Labor Day. We've been remote since mid-March of last year.

My manager decided that it's up to us whether we go into the office or not. But once a week, he wants us in for half a day so our team can meet in person. So that's what we're going to do. I'm cool with that.

I don't have a problem going in if there's a need for me to be there. However, if I'm just going to be sitting at a desk all day, I can be more productive doing that at home.

I've spoken with some recruiters as well. And it varies. Once place had been fully remote since well before the pandemic. I was excited about that opportunity, but the pay wasn't there. Other places are either planning to go back full time or are already back full time.

[kehlis]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

My company is a large one and spreads throughout much of the country.

My specific division was made permanent work from home shortly after the pandemic started but I have friends throughout the company and that isn't the case across the board (couldn't possibly be and for some, never were work from home at all).

Earlier this year there was a directive sent out that we are a work in the office company and everyone needed to prepare to come back when it was safely deemed to do so. That timeline has changed much over the last year but it was still there as a hard line at some point. (This wouldn't apply to all lines of business like mine which was made permanently virtual).

But after that from what I heard from my other friends in other parts of the business is that that specific message didn't go over well. We had people quitting and leaving for permanent work from home jobs and eventually the message was walked back a bit that we would find a way to be flexible while never forgetting our primary duty to our customers, our stakeholders, and employees (makes 100% sense).

Me personally - I'm not wild about permanently being home, it certainly has it's advantages but it's really hard to manage a team virtually. I would love to still have a space to have everyone come in for a team meeting or for my individual meetings with my team.

However, since this started, my team which was once 100% Pittsburgh residents now has folks from other area's (not many, but enough to make it not the same).

Even when we get back to normal, this will have a major change on jobs in the future.

[KSUowls]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

To me, WFH options tells a lot about the business. If you're for sure wanting every last person to come back like normal and don't see any value in WFH in jobs where that can actually be an option, that says a lot about the people in charge/culture of the company.

I"ve made this exact point to some people a few times over the last few months as well as when I turned down the job offer in January. If at this point in the process a company still doesn't know or has decided against some form of WFH environment post Covid, then it speaks to a culture that isn't something that I would want to be a part of anyway.

While the pandemic has obviously been bad. I was hoping that it would at least be the catalyst to move companies in a direction that embraces the opportunities afforded by 21st century technologies. I understand the value in office interactions and even why some people may look forward to it, but it just seems odd that there hasn't been more flexibility shown with it to this point.

Which is particularly unfortunate for me because I really want to leave my company, but my company has actually made a commitment to embracing WFH as the future after seeing the benefits & employee feedback over the last year.

[Majingir]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

My manager decided that it's up to us whether we go into the office or not. But once a week, he wants us in for half a day so our team can meet in person. So that's what we're going to do. I'm cool with that.

I don't have a problem going in if there's a need for me to be there. However, if I'm just going to be sitting at a desk all day, I can be more productive doing that at home.

That's exactly what I mentioned. Nothing wrong having a mix. There's definitely things worth being there in person for. But if people can work from home while also only going in if they want or need to, that's fine. I'm willing to bet people who might live further away wouldn't mind that too.

Do you want a 1-2 hour commute (each way) to work every day? Probably not. But if you're doing that once or twice a week, it's way more tolerable and as an employer, you'll probably have a wider field of people applying to a company like that too.

And some people definitely are more productive when relaxed/alone. I know I'd be distracted at home, but at the same time probably more productive since I'm fully relaxed, can eat while working, and even sitting on my couch when doing work. Even in school, I always found I did my homework or studying best when laying in bed or sitting on a couch at home vs in a computer lab or library.

But after that from what I heard from my other friends in other parts of the business is that that specific message didn't go over well. We had people quitting and leaving for permanent work from home jobs and eventually the message was walked back a bit that we would find a way to be flexible while never forgetting our primary duty to our customers, our stakeholders, and employees (makes 100% sense).

I"ve made this exact point to some people a few times over the last few months as well as when I turned down the job offer in January. If at this point in the process a company still doesn't know or has decided against some form of WFH environment post Covid, then it speaks to a culture that isn't something that I would want to be a part of anyway.

We're seeing this not just in office jobs, but other jobs in general.

So many companies are complaining about needing workers, and how people quit and "people would rather be collecting unemployment than working". The general consensus among the public though is simply "You offer low wages, poor hours, no benefits and poor work conditions, but get mad when people don't want to work for your company"?

I've left my LinkedIn open to recruiters, and only offers I've even gotten are jobs that are basically what I have now, for basically the same pay, and likely worse hours, while they're probably understaffed. I don't even bother responding to them.

[kehlis]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

That's exactly what I mentioned. Nothing wrong having a mix. There's definitely things worth being there in person for. But if people can work from home while also only going in if they want or need to, that's fine. I'm willing to bet people who might live further away wouldn't mind that too.

Do you want a 1-2 hour commute (each way) to work every day? Probably not. But if you're doing that once or twice a week, it's way more tolerable and as an employer, you'll probably have a wider field of people applying to a company like that too.

And some people definitely are more productive when relaxed/alone. I know I'd be distracted at home, but at the same time probably more productive since I'm fully relaxed, can eat while working, and even sitting on my couch when doing work. Even in school, I always found I did my homework or studying best when laying in bed or sitting on a couch at home vs in a computer lab or library.





We're seeing this not just in office jobs, but other jobs in general.

So many companies are complaining about needing workers, and how people quit and "people would rather be collecting unemployment than working". The general consensus among the public though is simply "You offer low wages, poor hours, no benefits and poor work conditions, but get mad when people don't want to work for your company"?

I've left my LinkedIn open to recruiters, and only offers I've even gotten are jobs that are basically what I have now, for basically the same pay, and likely worse hours, while they're probably understaffed. I don't even bother responding to them.

None of what you said has anything to do with the post of mine you quoted.

[Majingir]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

None of what you said has anything to do with the post of mine you quoted.

It goes in hand with other industries too as they move away from the pandemic.

Some companies are trying to do things the way they did before, but employees don't want things to stay the way they were before.

They've gotten to see a different side of life or work and enjoy it better, so now it's on the company to try and change the way they do things or else employees will look elsewhere.

Having to basically go back on what the company has said is basically admitting that the changing demands of employees is justified and change is needed.

[kehlis]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

It goes in hand with other industries too as they move away from the pandemic.

Some companies are trying to do things the way they did before, but employees don't want things to stay the way they were before.

They've gotten to see a different side of life or work and enjoy it better, so now it's on the company to try and change the way they do things or else employees will look elsewhere.

Having to basically go back on what the company has said is basically admitting that the changing demands of employees is justified and change is needed.

I can agree with this but this isn’t what you said before.

You were talking about unemployment and things that aren’t relevant to us. I’m talking about people walking away from good salaries, good 401ks and good pensions.

[The Chef]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

My company shut down our offices here about 6 months before covid so was already working from home and will continue to do so as long as I'm employed with them. There is a positive to it but after nearly 2 years of working from home exclusively its also become a bit isolating at this point.

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[Speedy]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

Pre-covid...had to be in the office every day.

During covid...permanent WFH every day.

Post-covid...option to WFH every day (which I took), 2 days in/3 days off hybrid approach but both pending approval from the MGR.

My company also finally started using MS Teams so all the folks I need to contact frequenty in/out office can be reached via Teams, we can do quick screenshares, setup conference/video calls on the fly...that has made the option to WFH much easier and manageable for all involved.

[Jolly Roger]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

My company shut down our offices here about 6 months before covid so was already working from home and will continue to do so as long as I'm employed with them. There is a positive to it but after nearly 2 years of working from home exclusively its also become a bit isolating at this point.

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Same! I'm getting kinda stir-crazy at home. I guess I should start doing more outside of work to get out of the house. I've probably gotten gas 4 or 5 times in the past year and a half, whereas before it was once a week. I had an 80-90 minute daily commute.

My company made the employees go back to the office full-time in July, but I'm a contractor and my department boss let us contractors stay home. But actually, a few of the employees are still at home as well because my boss lets them and the brass on the top floor don't even know who we are anyway, LOL. I have a feeling a lot of the department bosses are letting their people WFH some of the time. Like some others have said, requiring 100% office work doesn't make sense when the work can be done just as well remotely. I just hope there's a strong enough push back from the workforce that companies are forced to be reasonably flexible to stay competitive.

I wonder how things are in Japan, I've always heard their commitment to office culture would make even the USA look like a bunch of slackers, LOL.

[pietasterp]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

This goes without saying (or should), but there's no 1 right solution for every type of industry. Some industries can easily work with a fully distributed workforce and permanent WFH, others can't, and most are somewhat in between. I think sweeping statements that you see all over (in print media, on TV, everywhere else) about how WFH is the future, or pre-COVID status quo will be back soon, or whatever, are all just reactionary. I've been in the workforce long enough to see a few work/office trends come and go, and none of them are ever the permanent revolution predicted.

All that having been said, this is obviously a new and unique situation, so how this all turns out is anyone's guess. I think most companies will settle on some kind of hybrid, but who knows?

The only thing that concerns me about people arguing vociferously for permanent WFH is that you have to be careful, because you may well convince the C-suite that you're entirely correct, and that your job can be done from anywhere. And once you've convinced them, how long before they come to the determination that "anywhere" can be Hyderabad or Bangladesh?

[KSUowls]

Re: Work From Home (WFH) Thread

I think that's just the natural evolution of industry and economics. Outsourcing and offshoring of certain jobs very well could become the norm as they have for things like call-centers, but it will just push the local labor force into jobs that can't outsourced like that.

Also, while there might be some that can be pushed elsewhere today the vast majority of office jobs require a high level of effective communication in order to function properly. I don't mean this to be derogatory, but having to decipher heavily accented english from a Bangladesh citizen would be undesirable and inefficient for many businesses.


As a personal update. The recruiter who I was previously talking to indicated that only about 5% of the Atlanta market had committed to WFH post pandemic. A separate recruiter that I talked to a few days ago was of the same belief that I am where companies are going to have to adapt to some level of it if they want to hire and maintain talent. We'll see if this is just hopeless idealism or if we as a labor force ends up forcing that as the new norm.