PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

[zjac7]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

An observation on Hole Player... I've been using it on Walcott, a player who lines up at SM but makes frequent moves into the box, it works like a charm in replicating his style. I would recommend it for players with a similar style. I also prefer Dummy Runner instead of Prolific Winger for players who frequently run at defenders 1v1. Just some thoughts for you guys as you test...

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

An observation on Hole Player... I've been using it on Walcott, a player who lines up at SM but makes frequent moves into the box, it works like a charm in replicating his style. I would recommend it for players with a similar style. I also prefer Dummy Runner instead of Prolific Winger for players who frequently run at defenders 1v1. Just some thoughts for you guys as you test...

Thnks, see my analysys of Raumdeuter , I'm agree with you.

To reproduce the Raumdeuter role (muller,sterling, volland) set him CL Hole Player secondary WF + trackback with this setting
KO IP OP
WF CL WF

But for walcott i put those settings because with Hole Player him is centering too much in non possession.

I'm testing dummy runner in alternative to prolific winger and for Walcott fits well, he sometimes is centering a bit and I wanted right that

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

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I had better success doing this with Chelsea. Like I said in the above post I put Moses and Alonso as SMF and as wide as possible. I also have both of them positioned behind half as SMF in the offensive formation. I am torn between using them as FB with Offensive Fullback card or using them as SMF with Box to Box card. I like movement with FB BUT I like that SMF they both move up even if action is only on one side of the pitch. Also I like that with SMF they are both in more advanced positions so if a cross goes through the box the other player can sometimes pick it up or if they lose the ball then they can pressure the opposition (with Track Back and Marking on) and it makes it much more difficult to pass out of my own half.

Also, that heat map for Milner isn't bad. This is the heat map for Milner and Clyne when Liverpool beat Man City a couple of weeks ago.

Spoiler

Take a look, what do you think?
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qefk-dNXj0I" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

I maded a better placement, later i post another video, where finally both teams seems balanced.

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Finally I got a balanced Liverpool with these fluid formations. To close the gap i lowered all the Midfield, and I leave just one or two player in attack, that has really balanced the whole team. Finally the gap between defense and midfield are reduced and the teams retreat in the right way (or wahtever in a better way ) the two SM provide a good supports on the side and the spaces who them leave are covered by the midfielders. So after that i think to lower all the midfield line of the of the whole game 's teams.
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cjXjR3wxmc4" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Liverpool Position, Player Style, and Ability
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7yLQTI6EqOE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Liverpool and Bayern Munich movement
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s9iUM1842mg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jamesbeaver]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Finally I got a balanced Liverpool with these fluid formations. To close the gap i lowered all the Midfield, and I leave just one or two player in attack, that has really balanced the whole team. Finally the gap between defense and midfield are reduced and the teams retreat in the right way (or wahtever in a better way ) the two SM provide a good supports on the side and the spaces who them leave are covered by the midfielders. So after that i think to lower all the midfield line of the of the whole game 's teams.

This could be related to why Matt's original 5 second fix - where "out of possession" is used as the base - works so well for some of us. There the midfield is quite low by default. You can still create as much offensive action (and defensive risk) as you want to by increasing A/D level.

I find your discussion on player styles extremely interesting.

[jamesbeaver]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Sadly I can't reproduce an high defensive line, the two CB are every time too much behind, any suggestion? Atm the best for me is set they really close and more possible high in out and in possession and a bit low in kickoff

Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but is there some reason why defensive line height in defensive settings doesn't provide what you want?

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but is there some reason why defensive line height in defensive settings doesn't provide what you want?

Thnks for sharing your opinion
, So IMO matt10 advices improve a little the balance of the whole team, but is not enough, how you can see following the link of matt10's video,in your signature, that video is pretty the same of my first, when i've asked an opinion to demendhall. The midfielder join the offensive phase too early, them try on every ball a run towards the box, is not what I want.
About def. Line height , try to see, in the same Matt10's video ,the gap between defence and midfield. It's too much. I think this placement is heavily connected with the kickoff scheme. If you arrange more close defence and midfield that gap is reduced. Of course I think that all those changes should be done in all three scheme of fluid formations. Sorry I'm from telephone.

[jmel07]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Thnks for sharing your opinion
, So IMO matt10 advices improve a little the balance of the whole team, but is not enough, how you can see following the link of matt10's video,in your signature, that video is pretty the same of my first, when i've asked an opinion to demendhall. The midfielder join the offensive phase too early, them try on every ball a run towards the box, is not what I want.
About def. Line height , try to see, in the same Matt10's video ,the gap between defence and midfield. It's too much. I think this placement is heavily connected with the kickoff scheme. If you arrange more close defence and midfield that gap is reduced. Of course I think that all those changes should be done in all three scheme of fluid formations. Sorry I'm from telephone.

Could you screenshot something from that video and draw a line where you think the defence should be? I'm just curious. I'm not an elite football mind so I take all this for granted.

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Could you screenshot something from that video and draw a line where you think the defence should be? I'm just curious. I'm not an elite football mind so I take all this for granted.

Sure,

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

For my personal taste if I max def line and compact they should cover the line without leave all that space.
Anyway in screen #2 is worst than #1 , the CPU usually set deep def line to barca and this is what they do.

[jamesbeaver]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

The midfielder join the offensive phase too early, them try on every ball a run towards the box, is not what I want.

For the user, I have personally felt that lowering A/D will decrease run frequency quite a bit. In fact, I have no issues with reckless midfielders in my MLs. Also, as has been stated here, player styles can have an effect. On top of this, I am not sure how setting "possession play" vs. "counter attack" changes the situation.

For my personal taste if I max def line and compact they should cover the line without leave all that space.
Anyway in screen #2 is worst than #1 , the CPU usually set deep def line to barca and this is what they do.

I thought you were talking about fixing defensive line height for the user, but you seem to be also talking about modifying how the CPU sets its line height. Don't know much about that.

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

For the user, I have personally felt that lowering A/D will decrease run frequency quite a bit. In fact, I have no issues with reckless midfielders in my MLs. Also, as has been stated here, player styles can have an effect. On top of this, I am not sure how setting "possession play" vs. "counter attack" changes the situation.



I thought you were talking about fixing defensive line height for the user, but you seem to be also talking about modifying how the CPU sets its line height. Don't know much about that.

Here others videos after some changes and seems CPU def line is a little more adavanced
And take a look to Monreal (FB in 'KO' & 'IP' and SL in 'OP')on the left I the second video, I think his movement are almost perfect.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kuyD-3Yh8lw" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/I1ttUNmD3LA" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Tinker]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Kilay, I played a game with your Liverpool tactics and have to say I liked it. Don't know if it was a coincidence, but the midfield balance was great. The strangest thing is that I didn't experience any width problems, even with attacking area set to centre.

Two problems in my opinion are:

First, not sure about keeping fullbacks as SMs in the OP formation. Leaves gaps open on the flanks. Thinking maybe only "real" wingbacks (those in
3 at the back formations) should be used like that.

Second, deep positioning of midfield makes it more difficult to press high.


However I liked the discovery. Bravo.

[kilay]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

Kilay, I played a game with your Liverpool tactics and have to say I liked it. Don't know if it was a coincidence, but the midfield balance was great. The strangest thing is that I didn't experience any width problems, even with attacking area set to centre.

Two problems in my opinion are:

First, not sure about keeping fullbacks as SMs in the OP formation. Leaves gaps open on the flanks. Thinking maybe only "real" wingbacks (those in
3 at the back formations) should be used like that.

Second, deep positioning of midfield makes it more difficult to press high.


However I liked the discovery. Bravo.

Really thnks for your feedback, I'm happy for the develop of the game, about FB I think you're right, but about Milner I think that is real position, Clyne perharps needs less attack prowness, anyway we can fix it
About DM and pressing, try to switch him to CC In possession or in Non possession scheme (one or the other not both), this change his position if you require more presssing on the midfiled line
I've changed a bit the formation, this evening i will put my 5/6 tactis reworked from pap & royce starting scheme.

Last thing have you never tried to play vs ROMA? Florenzi settings of default(i think was those,i use the galaxy patch) is SL Hole Player, in this way if you use him how FB the scheme result totally unbalanced, him leaves spaces on the right flank and the whole teams suffer of that.
Change him to FB BTB and the most part of issue are solved..
This can explain well how a simple change of positon and playing style can change the whole team style of playing..
The key is balance all the position of the teams, with right positions registered,playing style and ability.
Coutinho fits well also how Hole Player, but to balance the teams I've preferred for him the Creative Playmaker settings (and also more unpredictable).
Anyway I need to see some match of Liverpool to understand well the right flank situation.

[Tinker]

Re: PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice

It's actually great to know. I'm not using Pes Galaxy, being completely in love with VirtuaRED mod's pitches, so I haven't tried Roma yet. Are you maybe going to post video of those other team tactics?

Though from what I see, the trick is to (from already awesome Papinho's and Royce's tactics) move midfield line backwards, defenders upwards, as well as to assign correct playing styles.

Then again, have you tested 4-2-3-1? If so, do you move only two defensive midfielders close to defenders, or also wide midfielders at some degree? Or should they be left high and wide?