2022-23 English Football Thread

[Krebstar]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

point stands.

The implementation and use in England has primarily disallow goals—that's it. Checking millimeter offsides, slow motion contact from multiple angles—anything they can find to disallow goals.

Blatant dangerous play? Nah, gotta let that go. Goals that were scored due to margins being so close that all on-field officials had no issue with it? Check them all to the nth degree.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

The implementation and use in England has primarily disallow goals

It's really one of the most frustrating thing about this sport, and why it's gotten harder and harder to get fully invested. I think VAR has the opportunity to be a good thing overall for the sport, but they seem deadset on using it to make the game almost unwatchable.

I saw some twitter chatter about removing the slow-motion ability from VAR, and while I don't think it solves the problem, I do think it's an interesting idea that you can only overturn or change calls after seeing them at full speed however.

The only thing I really dislike about the Ødegaard foul is that it's a foul that happens 100 times in a game and play is never stopped, but this one time it'll call back a pretty saucy goal.

While I was taking my time typing this, De Gea's been dealing with Martinelli's confidence fairly well after the called back goal. Also it's incredible how much better United are without Maguire.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Great goal by Antony tho.

[Leon]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Listen, Arsenal were really impressive for large stretches of the match. Dominating possession. Pinning us back.














But it's still not enough. The rebuild marches on (on) (on).

[Keirik]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Well that was fun

[Keirik]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

It's really one of the most frustrating thing about this sport, and why it's gotten harder and harder to get fully invested. I think VAR has the opportunity to be a good thing overall for the sport, but they seem deadset on using it to make the game almost unwatchable.

I saw some twitter chatter about removing the slow-motion ability from VAR, and while I don't think it solves the problem, I do think it's an interesting idea that you can only overturn or change calls after seeing them at full speed however.

The only thing I really dislike about the Ødegaard foul is that it's a foul that happens 100 times in a game and play is never stopped, but this one time it'll call back a pretty saucy goal.

While I was taking my time typing this, De Gea's been dealing with Martinelli's confidence fairly well after the called back goal. Also it's incredible how much better United are without Maguire.

VAR is the dumbest implementation in a sport like football. It’s a free flowing organic sport. The point of VAR is to “get it right.” The problem is two fold. First, VAR is just another human. It doesn’t “get it right” anymore than the original decision. It just either gives the same opinion as person A or opinion B. You might as well just cue random pub watcher for a final outcome with his opinion. Secondly and it’s biggest problem is that it doesn’t make the sport better. It doesn’t make it more fun to watch. It doesn’t help the organic nature of the sport. It doesn’t add to the passion of the sport. It directly interferes with all of that. I don’t care if every decision is right or every offsides is magnified to the point where it’s offsides by a fingernail after the fact. Let the sport continue its normal flow. Taking that away is such a detriment to the sport that it literally needs to just go away so everyone can carry on with the passion of the sport that was originally intended. Nothing was wrong with the sport in the first place.

Most sports are a series of individual moments strung together to give a result. Football is a free flowing ocean of water allowed to flow for 90 minutes with influence by human actions, or two 45 minute intervals of it really. Time does not stop. The flow does not stop. VAR directly contradicts every single part of that flow.

[dubcity]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Annoying that Man U won, but I like Rashford so at least he was the man to do it.

[dubcity]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Goodison 0-0, but actually an entertaining watch.

The reaction at the final whistle was pretty telling. Mild applause. Everton played well and were never just trying to hold on to a draw. Overall they are still pretty bad, but at least Anthony Gordon and Pickford make them look an actual Premier League club sometimes.

[Krebstar]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Nothing was wrong with the sport in the first place.

Intentional and unintentional dangerous play or violent conduct going unpunished within a match (a team facing immediate repercussions) due to a referee having a poor angle or missing it and blatant offsides that lead to goals 100% needed to be addressed.

The concept is not flawed—the execution, specifically in England, is.

[KG]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

It’s a people problem. You have crap on-field refs in charge of matchday VAR while also being influential in deciding the circumstances in which VAR is invoked.

It’s an English problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brahvocado]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

VAR is the dumbest implementation in a sport like football. It’s a free flowing organic sport. The point of VAR is to “get it right.” The problem is two fold. First, VAR is just another human. It doesn’t “get it right” anymore than the original decision. It just either gives the same opinion as person A or opinion B. You might as well just cue random pub watcher for a final outcome with his opinion. Secondly and it’s biggest problem is that it doesn’t make the sport better. It doesn’t make it more fun to watch. It doesn’t help the organic nature of the sport. It doesn’t add to the passion of the sport. It directly interferes with all of that. I don’t care if every decision is right or every offsides is magnified to the point where it’s offsides by a fingernail after the fact. Let the sport continue its normal flow. Taking that away is such a detriment to the sport that it literally needs to just go away so everyone can carry on with the passion of the sport that was originally intended. Nothing was wrong with the sport in the first place.

Most sports are a series of individual moments strung together to give a result. Football is a free flowing ocean of water allowed to flow for 90 minutes with influence by human actions, or two 45 minute intervals of it really. Time does not stop. The flow does not stop. VAR directly contradicts every single part of that flow.

VAR in other leagues has been implemented 10x more successfully than in England.

The problem is that English refs didn’t want it, and have made a very clear effort to make it look bad.

You can still have a free-flowing sport and use VAR, the technology is not flawed, English referees are.

[Keirik]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Intentional and unintentional dangerous play or violent conduct going unpunished within a match (a team facing immediate repercussions) due to a referee having a poor angle or missing it and blatant offsides that lead to goals 100% needed to be addressed.

The concept is not flawed—the execution, specifically in England, is.

Most offsides are caught normally, especially blatant ones. The problem is that now blatant offsides are allowed to play on unless a goal is scored and then it’s called back because they have VAR in their back pocket. The once or twice a season an offsides might be missed is just part of the sport. As for this “dangerous or violent conduct” around the league. Well, that’s a matter of opinion anyway. Some of the stuff I’ve read here about guys being dirty or violent is laughable in my opinion. Doesn’t make mine right or wrong. It’s always going to be an opinion of interpretation. I have zero problem with investing in better refereeing standards. But regardless, it’s still just an opinion of a play. VAR is still run by another persons opinion and having replays slowed down where everything looks worse just makes it silly. The Arsenal goal called back is exactly the perfect example. The game wasn’t crumbling before VAR. Something tells me it could remain the worlds most popular sport regardless.

[Krebstar]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

As for this “dangerous or violent conduct” around the league. Well, that’s a matter of opinion anyway.

Oh for ****s sake.

The concept of using VAR as a tool to punish (within the game it occurs, not after) blatant kick outs, elbows to the face, and obvious stamps is not only appropriate, but a no-brainier. I'm not talking about disputed 50/50 challenges—I'm talking about the **** everyone sees for years, but doesn't get punished, but should, because it has no involvement on the actual sport itself but is instead a product of petulance or obvious malice.

In England it's the execution—not the concept, that is at fault. 'VAR' as a concept is a tool for accountability. Numerous leagues around the world have proven its value when used correctly, including the ability to adjust when needed (Eredivisie adjusting their offside lines to include a margin of error).

[Keirik]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

VAR in other leagues has been implemented 10x more successfully than in England.

The problem is that English refs didn’t want it, and have made a very clear effort to make it look bad.

You can still have a free-flowing sport and use VAR, the technology is not flawed, English referees are.

Yeah I, ot so sure about that. You have Mourinho and Roma supporters complaining ultiple times about have Lazio supporters protesting in the past outside the Italian FA headquarters about VAR, there are a whole crap ton of unhappy clubs in La Liga going on about VAR both getting a ton wrong and showing g favoritism towards both Barca and Madrid, Ligue 1 VAR is heavily criticized, and there has been plenty of controversy in the Bumdesliga as well.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/mourinho-blasts-referee-var-after-roma-lose-derby-lazio-2021-09-26/

https://www.espn.com/soccer/lazio/story/3425877/lazio-fans-protest-against-var-outside-italys-fa-headquarters

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/football/discontent-growing-over-var-use-in-ligue-1-french-league-football-news/article36692301.ece

https://www.football-espana.net/2021/11/29/la-liga-var-barcelona-madrid

https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-var...of%20its%20own.

[Keirik]

Re: 2022-23 English Football Thread

Oh for ****s sake.

The concept of using VAR as a tool to punish (within the game it occurs, not after) blatant kick outs, elbows to the face, and obvious stamps is not only appropriate, but a no-brainier. I'm not talking about disputed 50/50 challenges—I'm talking about the **** everyone sees for years, but doesn't get punished, but should, because it has no involvement on the actual sport itself but is instead a product of petulance or obvious malice.

In England it's the execution—not the concept, that is at fault. 'VAR' as a concept is a tool for accountability. Numerous leagues around the world have proven its value when used correctly, including the ability to adjust when needed (Eredivisie adjusting their offside lines to include a margin of error).

The oh for **** sake isn’t necessary and it starts a negative spin on a healthy discussion. Stop. I’m just giving my opinion after 47 years on this rock and quite a large chunk of it in the sport.

That’s great if you are talking about the rare times someone decides to punch, stamp, kick out a player and it goes unseen. Hell I bet guys can’t even agree on what qualifies as blatant. That’s all fine but VAR isn’t implemented solely for that. If you want to implement something for away for the ball, just have a second referee watch back play.if another set of eyes can’t see it then so be it. The sport wasn’t in a dire state of dying all over Europe because of guys getting away with dirty fouls. There is no clear line to say exactly when something g is obvious or not obvious. Dangerous or not dangerous. It’s still half interpretation. Get a higher referee standard.

It’s also used for tinkly tack fouls, hairline offsides, judgment handballs, judgement 50/50 balls, fouls where a stud is up but 6 inches off the ground, etc, fouls that occurred 30 seconds earlier, etc. it’s also NOT used to punish when guys intentionally cheat the game by feigning a foul which happens so much more frequently.