Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

[JayhawkerStL]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I'm just going to site a personal reference that Ian also confirmed that the game was not scripted, which is close to going back a decade. I don't think in the long run it matters which side who is on, in the long run, a person is going to believe what they feel they believe, developer input or not.

It only matters in the sense that these people spread FUD that affects a lot of other gamers. I guarantee you that I would not play sports video games if I even suspected they were scripted.

Personally, I think a site like OS ought to take a stand on this issue. It's the equivalent of bashing developers to spread this kind of BS without a shred of evidence besides not liking the way a game ended. What the difference between calling them lazy versus dishonest?

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Again, I really don't think anything is scripted. At best, fatigue isn't drained evenly between the CPU and the user, and the result is that the CPU suddenly "gets good" in the end, but really what's happening is your players are tired and theirs are not.

[Thunderhorse]

Some seem to perceive "scripted" to mean the entire game has a script and we are just watching. My perception is individual plays can be "scripted" in the sense that a dice roll is so heavily favored towards a user opponent or the computer that the actual input of one user doesn't actually matter.

The devs can say the entire 20 minute game is not scripted and not be lying. Again, football is not a game of possessions, but one of inches. One play can win a game, especially in a 5 minute quarter. If the user's success depends on the mercy of a dice roll at all times, the user is not in control of what is happening and can only accept what the AI gives them. One play that is essentially "scripted" because the dice roll predetermined the outcome of the play can and will make the difference in a game.

And on an unrelated note. The devs should be accountable for their creation. You look at the animations in this game, the lack of mechanics, and compare it to a game like 2K and there is simply no question. They either lack the talent/ability or they are not trying. That is not a personal slight, it is an objective observation. There is a reason the NBA game can sell more physical copies of their game despite the fact the NFL pulls in almost 3 times as much in annual revenue.

[NinersFan49]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderhorse

Some seem to perceive "scripted" to mean the entire game has a script and we are just watching. My perception is individual plays can be "scripted" in the sense that a dice roll is so heavily favored towards a user opponent or the computer that the actual input of one user doesn't actually matter. The devs can say the entire 20 minute game is not scripted and not be lying. Again, football is not a game of possessions, but one of inches. One play can win a game, especially in a 5 minute quarter. If the user's success depends on the mercy of a dice roll at all times, the user is not in control of what is happening and can only accept what the AI gives them. One play that is essentially "scripted" because the dice roll predetermined the outcome of the play can and will make the difference in a game.

Yes, heavily slanted dice rolls on key plays sounds reasonable. I don't think every play is scripted, either.

[roadman]

I feel the goalpost continue to change based on the hitting keys on the keyboard vs in person interaction.

I am going off a quote of a 2k football developer back in the day, put a controller in one's hand, and sim is no longer in the equation and that sure rings true with every sport video game. ie therefore user input/stick skills takes over and the outcomes are unpredictable once that occurs.

I agree with Thunder that 2k's animations are much better than Madden's and make the outcomes more real like, but as Thunder indicated, that is another topic for another day which has been mentioned a lot in the past.

[JayhawkerStL]

I think, especially once sports games hit 3D, that sports games struggle to animate failure. And as games have begun to look better and better, the result has been an uncanny valley in that regard.

But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing.

Usually, the sim gamer just notes the results, realizes that it is within range and moves on. But today, that gamer doesn't seem to grasp this.

[Thunderhorse]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL

But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing.

This is inaccurate.

In the 07 product, the DB's would fail often. They would stumble, they would miss after an attempted swat, and often times the talented quarterback would simply throw into windows that were not defendable.

Being aware of these things allows one to understand why the EA product continues to fail in this regard, and 10 years later the excuses are honestly getting incredibly stale.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL

I think, especially once sports games hit 3D, that sports games struggle to animate failure. And as games have begun to look better and better, the result has been an uncanny valley in that regard. But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing. Usually, the sim gamer just notes the results, realizes that it is within range and moves on. But today, that gamer doesn't seem to grasp this.

It's seems like it just too expensive(from the perspective of the company) to add all the extra animations that would make failure visually more appealing and less blatantly "dice rolly".