The Comeback AI thread

[Millennium]

You guys want a thread, here is your answer.

Two rules -

1 - Only people who believe there is comeback. No arguing against it.

2 - I have told the developers to not even open this thread. That way, those of you that want to talk about it can talk amongst yourselves.

3 - NOBODY, and I mean this wholeheartedly, accuses the developers of lying to you about the alleged comeback AI. It has been answered by them more than one time.

The previous threads were closed because of the arguing, the bickering, and the beating of too many dead horses. Everyone went round and round on the same points, and the circle restarted every time.

Continue to discuss if you wish.

[brunnoce]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

thanx millenium, i think this shows the greateness of OS, meaning people are free to discuss whatever they think, offcourse aways repecting others.

btw, i completly support the rules u implemented.

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Coming back to where we were i think its good to suggest this for people having issues with comebacks on the game, please try to play some games with the option COMABACK AI HANDICAP turned to ON.... this has helped some users here, including me so i think its a valid suggestion.(i must also say that most of the people that this helped were playing on legend level.)

[Artman22]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Thanks for creating this thread. :wink:

[Chef Matt]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

While I didn't dive into either thread too much I did stay up with it. I haven't really decided which fence I'm on. On or Off but this topic makes for good reading. Thanks for opening a new one with some parameters.

[phillyfan23]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I applaud OS for re-creating this thread. People who believe in this theory are not looking for arguments so the rules implemented are a great thing.

Anyways, I agree with Bruno, turn comeback ON and should be solved. If not, we await for Swaldo's and JT30's test results regarding the importance of clutch.

Thank you OS.....

I knew you were the best site on the net and today proved how awesome you are.

[ochonflcinco85]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

oh thiers no dought in my mind thier is cpu comebacks,cuz around the fith inning(almost every game)my pitcher just falls apart,after pitcing a great game

[davewins]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I applaud OS as well for doing this. OS is a private forum and they can do what they want. They chose to open this up and let everybody have their opinion on an issue in a civil manner. Hats off to you OS. This truly is the best sports gaming forum. Not even a question.

[DrUrsus]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

First off, I don't have a definite opinion about this either way. I play All Star with a combination of pbz/blzer/psychos sliders, so personally, I haven't noticed it to a large degree. I play with CPU comeback OFF. I have seen some crazy comebacks, but don't know to attribute it to what you guys are seeing.

I do believe what SCEA says about not programming it that way, but I also know things happen when you make a game. Not saying either way of course if it is switched or anything just to make that clear.

Swaldo, mistakenly thought I was being critical of this comeback theory in the last thread because of my last post. I was merely trying to point out that you just have to accept how the game is and either use CPU comeback on or off, and that people were passionate about it both ways like religion. I remain open minded to what you guys are seeing.

But, I thought of a way to test this theory.

Play to a certain point in the game and save it before you think the comeback is going to happen since many of you feel that you can almost "feel" it coming.

Let things unfold, whether it be a comeback or not by the CPU.

Then reload the game, and play it out again.

If the CPU does in fact come back all the time, you could really see if it is "predetermined" or if what decisions and pitches, hitting, etc. you do really determines the game.

I have lost some games after reloading the save, that I later won when I did things differently, and vice versa. I have not run enough tests to say either way.

[brunnoce]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

First off, I don't have a definite opinion about this either way. I play All Star with a combination of pbz/blzer/psychos sliders, so personally, I haven't noticed it to a large degree. I play with CPU comeback OFF. I have seen some crazy comebacks, but don't know to attribute it to what you guys are seeing.

I do believe what SCEA says about not programming it that way, but I also know things happen when you make a game. Not saying either way of course if it is switched or anything just to make that clear.

Swaldo, mistakenly thought I was being critical of this comeback theory in the last thread because of my last post. I was merely trying to point out that you just have to accept how the game is and either use CPU comeback on or off, and that people were passionate about it both ways like religion. I remain open minded to what you guys are seeing.

But, I thought of a way to test this theory.

Play to a certain point in the game and save it before you think the comeback is going to happen since many of you feel that you can almost "feel" it coming.

Let things unfold, whether it be a comeback or not by the CPU.

Then reload the game, and play it out again.

If the CPU does in fact come back all the time, you could really see if it is "predetermined" or if what decisions and pitches, hitting, etc. you do really determines the game.

I have lost some games after reloading the save, that I later won when I did things differently, and vice versa. I have not run enough tests to say either way.

dr, phillyfan did this exact test extensivly and he found some interest things, leading us to a comeback or rubberband code....

i bet hes gonna post it again here.

[S2S]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Dude, Don't take this as bickering because obviously once you get the end you'll realize it had a good outcome. But I too also believe that there's an AI comeback. I was playing a franchise game, I was playing it on manager mode. Jair Jurrjens pitching on the mound against the Nationals. Goes into the 6th with a 2 hitter, Doing pretty great. My Braves team had put up a 6 spot, Going into the bottom of the 6th. What happens? Jair gets the first out, He then proceeds to give up a 2 doubles, Scoring 2 runs, So I yank him and put in Jeff Bennett. He gives up a single, It's now 6 to 3, Me. He proceeds to give up another single and Josh bard comes up. After a first pitch ball, Bard cranks it over the wall to tie it up . You can assure I was cussing the game by this point but I pulled out of the inning tied. Top of the 7th my team hangs a 6 spot back on them and I eventually win it 13 to 8. But there for a second I thought it was going to let them roll all over my pitching again. ;/ .

[phillyfan23]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

dr, phillyfan did this exact test extensivly and he found some interest things, leading us to a comeback or rubberband code....

i bet hes gonna post it again here.

yes I made this test exactly Dr ursus....

I chose a season game where hamels was pitching against the pirates worst pitcher. I chose this so I can pretty much get a lead and extend easier because it's against a weak hitting team and bad pitcher using a premier pitcher and a great hit team.

I went up to 3-0 after 3 innings and I saved.

this is using comeback OFF and Legend level.

Played 35 more games after the 3 inning point. about 20 plus games I was able to stretch the lead over 4 runs.

In those 20 games that I was able to stretch the lead over 4 runs,I finished ONE game where I won over 4 runs, and that was when I was leading by 3 8th innig, and top 9 I scored 4 runs. I was up by 7 right? 9th inning to try to preserve the 7 run lead I brought in Lidge , he got scored on twice plus had a bases loaded jam where the final out was a warning track shot.

The other games strange things just occured, no matter how hard i tried or well i pitched, their weakest guys got doubles and HRs on poitches well off the plate.

Like Nyjer Morgan in the earlier inning I was able to K on 3 pitches, and in the 8th inning he doubles off a pitch a foot off the plate. If this happens once or twice , fine but the trend was there and it was unsettling.

So, with comeback OFF
35 games played
20 games got 4 plus run lead
1 game finished with 4 plus run win


and in my first season i was 10-6....never lost more than 4 , never won more than 4 , comeback OFF

so After reading davewins' thread and his suggestion to comeback ON, i restarted my season.

i have these type of wins:

6-0
6-1
13-6
10-3
8-3

losses:

1-12
2-8
2-7
6-11


my record after 38 games now is 21-17. So the difficulty didn't change just the overall feel felt much better.

In addition to that last week, I had hamels going again agasint the mets. went up 6-1 after 2 innings and I saved.

I played 3 games from 3rd inning and on

1st game I won 7-2 ....Hamels was ON
2nd game I won again 7-4 , Hamels wasn't too sharp but he got thru
3rd game I won 9-2 with absolutely NO threat from the cpu.


The difference to me is night and day and I suggest you do this test as well D ursus to feel as convinced as I am.

ciao,

Riz

[DrUrsus]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

yes I made this test exactly Dr ursus....

I chose a season game where hamels was pitching against the pirates worst pitcher. I chose this so I can pretty much get a lead and extend easier because it's against a weak hitting team and bad pitcher using a premier pitcher and a great hit team.

I went up to 3-0 after 3 innings and I saved.

this is using comeback OFF and Legend level.

Played 35 more games after the 3 inning point. about 20 plus games I was able to stretch the lead over 4 runs.

In those 20 games that I was able to stretch the lead over 4 runs,I finished ONE game where I won over 4 runs, and that was when I was leading by 3 8th innig, and top 9 I scored 4 runs. I was up by 7 right? 9th inning to try to preserve the 7 run lead I brought in Lidge , he got scored on twice plus had a bases loaded jam where the final out was a warning track shot.

The other games strange things just occured, no matter how hard i tried or well i pitched, their weakest guys got doubles and HRs on poitches well off the plate.

Like Nyjer Morgan in the earlier inning I was able to K on 3 pitches, and in the 8th inning he doubles off a pitch a foot off the plate. If this happens once or twice , fine but the trend was there and it was unsettling.

So, with comeback OFF
35 games played
20 games got 4 plus run lead
1 game finished with 4 plus run win


and in my first season i was 10-6....never lost more than 4 , never won more than 4 , comeback OFF

so After reading davewins' thread and his suggestion to comeback ON, i restarted my season.

i have these type of wins:

6-0
6-1
13-6
10-3
8-3

losses:

1-12
2-8
2-7
6-11


my record after 38 games now is 21-17. So the difficulty didn't change just the overall feel felt much better.

In addition to that last week, I had hamels going again agasint the mets. went up 6-1 after 2 innings and I saved.

I played 3 games from 3rd inning and on

1st game I won 7-2 ....Hamels was ON
2nd game I won again 7-4 , Hamels wasn't too sharp but he got thru
3rd game I won 9-2 with absolutely NO threat from the cpu.


The difference to me is night and day and I suggest you do this test as well D ursus to feel as convinced as I am.

ciao,

Riz

I didn't read through the whole entire previous posts because of all the bickering, so sorry I didn't realize you had come up with that already. Great minds think alike .

Excellent post. Wow. Those numbers say a lot. I am very interested in trying it with CPU comeback ON. You shouldn't be getting results like the ones you posted with it ON. It should be keeping games close.

I have to admit, that the more games I have played and started to look at the scores, there were a lot of games with a less than 4 run margin compared to last years game. But, I just chalked it up to myself not playing well.
Like I said before, I will have to see and "feel" it for myself before I can formulate an opinion.
Now I'm chomping at the bit to try it out tonight.

[phillyfan23]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I didn't read through the whole entire previous posts because of all the bickering, so sorry I didn't realize you had come up with that already. Great minds think alike .

Excellent post. Wow. Those numbers say a lot. I am very interested in trying it with CPU comeback ON. You shouldn't be getting results like the ones you posted with it ON. It should be keeping games close.

I have to admit, that the more games I have played and started to look at the scores, there were a lot of games with a less than 4 run margin compared to last years game. But, I just chalked it up to myself not playing well.
Like I said before, I will have to see and "feel" it for myself before I can formulate an opinion.
Now I'm chomping at the bit to try it out tonight.

exactly, the best way is to convince yourself after you play. It's either you will feel it or you won't. I mean even with On, I blew some huge leads, but then again , we want that to happen sometimes. Just make it the exception and not the rule.

Anyways, good luck and happy testing.

[DrUrsus]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Do you guys see comeback with All Star level? What about Veteran? Hall of Fame?

Is this a Legend isolated phenomenon?

Because I only play on All-Star with Psycho/Blzr/pbz modified sliders for franchise and occasionally veteran with sliders for pick up games since I'm not that good at hitting (good at pitching however).

[djo201]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Do you guys see comeback with All Star level? What about Veteran? Hall of Fame?

Is this a Legend isolated phenomenon?

Because I only play on All-Star with Psycho/Blzr/pbz modified sliders for franchise and occasionally veteran with sliders for pick up games since I'm not that good at hitting (good at pitching however).

By personal experience, it's not as noticeable on Veteran, even though I think sometimes it (Comeback) still takes control of the game and decides its outcome.

I started a season on All-Star and had to go down to Veteran as the CPU almost wrote on the Newspaper "You don't know how to pitch!". Recently I decided to go back to All-Star and again I'm winning by less than 4 runs (1 to be exact), and when I get the lead, I lose it some inning later, with my pitchers getting pounded. Almost always the game gets decided in the 9th with a walkoff or if I keep the 1-Run lead. I've gotten to the point where I don't use Mariano Rivera as I don't know what happened to his Cutter that every time he throws it: "Good-Bye!"

I think I tried CPU Comeback only on Veteran, and even though I saw some changes in the batting by the CPU, as the Comeback is not as noticeable, I couldn't reach any conclusion. I will turn it on again on AS to see what happens.