Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

[jmaj315]

Quote: Originally Posted by Factzzz

90% of the new deliveries added this year don't have a correct finish/finishing position. It's like they focused on the beginning and then just gave everyone a generic finish. The finish makes all the difference in the delivery, look how good Yordano Ventura's delivery looks. Strasburg finishes on firstbase side every time, in the Show, he finishes almost square to home plate. I noticed this with almost all of the new deliveries, they almost all have this same generic finish that Strasburg has. Very poorly done.

I always imagined the finishing position was due to them not actually throating a ball, or... not throwing it hard anyways
I always thought that ruined those back-up-the-box hits and caused the pitcher to either get smoked in the face or use his Neo reflexes to snag the ball without regard to physics ha
I'm hoping they can get those finishing positions a bit closer to real.

Also, when they show a pitcher as player of the game (where i noticed it most) the delivery just looks so.... casual

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Factzzz]

These are two examples of good deliveries because they have actual finish to it, opposed to some generic finishing position that most of the deliveries added last year had.

The Weaver delivery from 13 is still better because even in the Ventura delivery the glove hand looks weird throughout the delivery (most of the deliveries added last year had the same problem).

The quality of deliveries really took a step backwards last year. They added a lot of new deliveries to get rid of the really old ones that looked really bad from like MLB 10, but i guess with the increase in quantity, came a decrease in quality.

Spoiler

Look at the Kimbrel delivery for an example of a bad one.

compared to real life



It's like they didn't even look at the finish at all. Last year, most of the deliveries added in the game were halfway done

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Factzzz

90% of the new deliveries added this year don't have a correct finish/finishing position. It's like they focused on the beginning and then just gave everyone a generic finish. The finish makes all the difference in the delivery, look how good Yordano Ventura's delivery looks. Here's an example: Spoiler Strasburg finishes on firstbase side every time, in the Show, he finishes almost square to home plate. I noticed this with almost all of the new deliveries, they almost all have this same generic finish that Strasburg has. Very poorly done.

It's not simply Strasburg, I'm guessing it's with most if not all of their pitchers.

Quote: Originally Posted by HypoLuxa13

Doesn't Kirby on the Dev team do most of the pitching Mo-caps? Or maybe he did a lot of the batting stances. I suppose they bring in some outside talent as well. But give the guys a break if some of the windups and deliveries are a bit off, they are trying to replicate hundreds of motions. A lot of work, a lot of time.

I'm suspecting a lot of work and a lot of time as well. But if wanting the most authentic and most realistic sports game out in the market place, how realistic the motion of the body in action is captured can certainly be said to be an important or even crucial component.

Quote: Originally Posted by jmaj315

I always imagined the finishing position was due to them not actually throating a ball, or... not throwing it hard anyways I always thought that ruined those back-up-the-box hits and caused the pitcher to either get smoked in the face or use his Neo reflexes to snag the ball without regard to physics ha I'm hoping they can get those finishing positions a bit closer to real. Also, when they show a pitcher as player of the game (where i noticed it most) the delivery just looks so.... casual Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Pretty much the part in bold is why I will say most if not all deliveries are simply off. To replicate proper pitching motion requires properly capturing the actual speed of the pitch/body language/body english, which from what I can see is unfortunately lacking in MLBtheShow.

What I see with MLBtheShow pitchers is someone who is "tossing" the ball as oppose to actually "pitching" a real baseball with force. There is a lack of realistic body english on follow through. There is a lack of realistic strong leg kicks. There is a lack of realistic upper body/torso strong forceful follow through. There is a lack of realistic real body lean. There is a lack of realistic arm force follow through.

The speed of the follow through is simply too slow. Some may say it's "good enough" but to be authentic, there needs to be more mustard. Pitching a baseball is suppose to be a violent action. So much so, that real life pitchers almost fall over on every single pitch. Righty's will fall to the left of the mound; Lefty's will fall to right of the mound because of the body's momentum. But it's not as simple as that. Capturing the proper "motion" needs to be paired with the proper "speed" of the body in motion (or pitch) as well.

I suspect the motion capture "artist" isn't throwing heaters at all. I'm guessing instead of "pitching" a 90 mph fastball, the motion artist is "tossing" a ball at a max speed of 45/55 mph, plus or minus (or whatever max speed it is). But even if the motion capture artist can't throw 90 mph fastball, there should still be proper body english/lean/speed of arm during follow throughs when you're trying to legitimately pitch a heater (with respect to whatever top speed of the motion capture artist).

Compare the speed/force/lean of the upper body.

Real pitchers "REAR back and put mustard on that pitch; the oomph; the violent force, the violent nature of the arm speed... the body language/the upper body/the body english. .... the leg kick ... how the pitcher falls towards the mound after each pitch. ..."

which unfortunately, is lacking in MLBtheShow to be honest.


Anyways, that's just my thoughts on it. My 2 cents.

[Flaxseed Oil]

Not sure how to embed a gif, so hopefully this works. But one place where 2K baseball always killed the Show was pitcher animations. See below:









https://gifs.com/gif/yPXnrR

[blingballa333]

Ubaldo Jimenez's delivery is laughably slow I noticed a while back.

[Speedy]

I'd love to see Smoltz's windup redone.

[themrman]

I think this is a lot more important than some people think it is. As someone who plays baseball and knows a lot about pitching mechanics, the game just looks odd im my opinion. It looks like people are tossing horseshoes at a retirement home.
Even if a pitcher's windup is slow, their arm is moving quickly and violently. Pitching is a very explosive motion and the animations do not reflect that at all. They should hire a real pitcher to replicate the motions becasue frankly, these look terible.
I think the thing is that they dont understand how pitchers pitch the way they do.
There is little hip shoulder separtation in the animations. No explosive drive from the legs and the arm moves too slow.
IMO this is why the japanese pitchers' animations look so wierd. They have the same nonchalant tempo the whole way in the game when in reality they move extremely quickly after their initial pause.

tanaka here looks wierd. I dont think anyone can even hit 70 mph with those mechanics. His sholders are too open, His glove side is loose, and his front knee is weak.

IN comparison here tanaka is low to the ground, has tight gloveside and front knee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw4PP8YqcM0
That is a link that breaks down his and darvish's mechanics.

I know not every pitcher pitches this way but if you look at the show, no pitcher pitches even close to how a real life pitcher would pitch except for maybe the lincecum mechanics. And even then its not accurate for lincecum anymore.



look at waino irl


in game:

I know it doesnt look that bad here becasue this is a older animation but even the old ones have the same weak gloveside flaw that needs to be fixed.

If the devs need to see and understand how pitchers actually pitch go here:
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/...ses/index.html
Ps:that guy is an ahole but its a good place to start on how to understand mechacnics.

tldr: game pitching animations are poor because the caps dont capture how real pitchers pitch. Game pitchers never have the same tempo either.

sorru for all the images.

[Flaxseed Oil]

Excellent post TheMrMan. I pitched in college, and I can tell you it's important to 'tuck' the front side. Pitchers are taught to do it not only for control reasons, but to avoid excess strain on the shoulder which can lead to serious injuries.

If SCEA wants to fly me out for a weekend, I'd be happy to record like 25 pitching motions.