Do you think shot blocking is back?

[Smirkin Dirk]

For the user, it undoubtedly is. In fact it may even be a bit OP. Ive lowered by blocking attribute to 35.

What's better is the variety of blocks. Some subtle ones, others knocked into the stands.

For the CPU, they are back, but not quite where they need to be. Ive just played a few games against Hibbert and AD and each got 2-4 blocks per game. Which is nice, but I attacked them a fair bit. I thought they should have got a couple more. Yes, CPU blocking is maxed.

I think once we get better at getting to the rim, this will give the CPU more block opportunities.

All in all, huge improvement. Nice work 2K.

Your opinions?

[wodkalol]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

i think the blocking is pretty good


Players like gobert just go ham

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

It's definitely back. I've heard a few complaints about it being OP already...


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[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

It's definitely back. I've heard a few complaints about it being OP already...

Im guessing this is user controlled. I dont think the CPU is there yet.

[XxSpiritHunterX]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there


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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

i think blocking is fine except for some of the ground you can cover on a block from behind attempt. What i would like is the blocking to stay exactly the same, but a little more freedom with the shot change mechanic. There are times, early in n animation that i want to tuck, adjust the ball to the side or add arch but i cant and just have to witness my ball get swatted to hell.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

i think blocking is fine except for some of the ground you can cover on a block from behind attempt. What i would like is the blocking to stay exactly the same, but a little more freedom with the shot change mechanic. There are times, early in n animation that i want to tuck, adjust the ball to the side or add arch but i cant and just have to witness my ball get swatted to hell.

I have noticed a contextual animation where the player will tuck the ball under the outstretched arm. I dont think I triggered it, but Ive seen it twice.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there
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I have to first preface my response with the below somewhat lengthy paragraph.

Da_Czar (2k developer) had a brief conversation with another OS member that wanted more fouls to be in the game (this was before the game was released) so it matches up with real NBA statistics. Da_Czar stated he doesn't believe tweaking the game so fouls were artificially pumped up just to better replicate NBA numbers would be the right way to go. Da_Czar stated that during gameplay if the situation calls for a foul (if a foul is committed within the confines of that situation) then a foul should happen. Da_Czar stated that he doesn't want to "script" the game just so "2k16 numbers" represents the NBA better.

In other words, we don't want "real NBA numbers to dictate the outcome of 2k16" if that makes any sense.


"Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it [blocking] needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there"

Now having said that, here's my response to your statement about "park block fest." Since blocking is both a timing and position mechanism, if the park user has the proper timing and position down, why should the developers "change" the blocking mechanics so "numbers" are "better" in the park? If the park user has proper timing and position down, by changing the blocking mechanics so there is less blocks in the park, isn't that "scripting" the outcome of park games? Isn't that taking user control out of the gamer's hands?

This is why I kind of have a problem whenever people start saying "blocks are too overpowered/underpowered," "steals are too overpowered/underpowered," "there are too many fouls/not enough fouls," and a whole bunch of other too many/too little this and that.

If the in game situation calls for a block/steal/foul/etc and the timing and position of the offensive and defensive player determines a block/steal/foul/etc will or will not happen, isn't that how it should be?

Let the game dictate the statistics, not statistics dictating gameplay outcome.

[XxSpiritHunterX]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

I have to first preface my response with the below somewhat lengthy paragraph.

Da_Czar (2k developer) had a brief conversation with another OS member that wanted more fouls to be in the game (this was before the game was released) so it matches up with real NBA statistics. Da_Czar stated he doesn't believe tweaking the game so fouls were artificially pumped up just to better replicate NBA numbers would be the right way to go. Da_Czar stated that during gameplay if the situation calls for a foul (if a foul is committed within the confines of that situation) then a foul should happen. Da_Czar stated that he doesn't want to "script" the game just so "2k16 numbers" represents the NBA better.

In other words, we don't want "real NBA numbers to dictate the outcome of 2k16" if that makes any sense.


"Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it [blocking] needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there"

Now having said that, here's my response to your statement about "park block fest." Since blocking is both a timing and position mechanism, if the park user has the proper timing and position down, why should the developers "change" the blocking mechanics so "numbers" are "better" in the park? If the park user has proper timing and position down, by changing the blocking mechanics so there is less blocks in the park, isn't that "scripting" the outcome of park games? Isn't that taking user control out of the gamer's hands?

This is why I kind of have a problem whenever people start saying "blocks are too overpowered/underpowered," "steals are too overpowered/underpowered," "there are too many fouls/not enough fouls," and a whole bunch of other too many/too little this and that.

If the in game situation calls for a block/steal/foul/etc and the timing and position of the offensive and defensive player determines a block/steal/foul/etc will or will not happen, isn't that how it should be?

Let the game dictate the statistics, not statistics dictating gameplay outcome.

I'm glad it's all about timing this year, but I can't lie about seeing a point guard do a vertical block like Anthony Davis or anything. It's a block fest if the game becomes that way. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a shot forcer. But I have seen the effect of a shot forcer and I felt it was justifiable to see them blocked. If I seen a PF or a C getting those blocks I wouldn't mind it. But the point is anyone can get a block through all 5 positions sometimes. I'm not saying they should stop someone from a getting good blocks, but I just don't wanna see another 2K13 with no blocks or 2K14 with every block. I'll take the credit In saying I'm wrong though, thank you for explaining it


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[Sundown]

Do you think shot blocking is back?

I have to first preface my response with the below somewhat lengthy paragraph.

Da_Czar (2k developer) had a brief conversation with another OS member that wanted more fouls to be in the game (this was before the game was released) so it matches up with real NBA statistics. Da_Czar stated he doesn't believe tweaking the game so fouls were artificially pumped up just to better replicate NBA numbers would be the right way to go. Da_Czar stated that during gameplay if the situation calls for a foul (if a foul is committed within the confines of that situation) then a foul should happen. Da_Czar stated that he doesn't want to "script" the game just so "2k16 numbers" represents the NBA better.

In other words, we don't want "real NBA numbers to dictate the outcome of 2k16" if that makes any sense.


"Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it [blocking] needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there"

Now having said that, here's my response to your statement about "park block fest." Since blocking is both a timing and position mechanism, if the park user has the proper timing and position down, why should the developers "change" the blocking mechanics so "numbers" are "better" in the park? If the park user has proper timing and position down, by changing the blocking mechanics so there is less blocks in the park, isn't that "scripting" the outcome of park games? Isn't that taking user control out of the gamer's hands?

This is why I kind of have a problem whenever people start saying "blocks are too overpowered/underpowered," "steals are too overpowered/underpowered," "there are too many fouls/not enough fouls," and a whole bunch of other too many/too little this and that.

If the in game situation calls for a block/steal/foul/etc and the timing and position of the offensive and defensive player determines a block/steal/foul/etc will or will not happen, isn't that how it should be?

Let the game dictate the statistics, not statistics dictating gameplay outcome.

See, if blocks happen too often it suggests that they need to be tuned better, just as shots need to be tuned if they go in too often. Maybe it means the timing window needs to be smaller. Maybe it needs to produce more fouls with the right animation if it's not timed well. Maybe there needs to be a better balance of risk and reward with the different types of contest controls.

If there are too many or too little of something, it usually suggests adjustments need to be made. It's no different from shot rates and success. And we all know what it's like when you can "glitch" shot success by perfect timing. I see no reason this should be any different for other things like blocks and steals.

Anyway, I really like the actual implementation of block animations this year. They look convincing and authentic without being too exaggerated. I like that I can have ground bound shot blockers like Bogut and Green. Just had a game where Green blocked a late game layup by Lillard like he's wont to do. Very nice.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

I'm glad it's all about timing this year, but I can't lie about seeing a point guard do a vertical block like Anthony Davis or anything. It's a block fest if the game becomes that way. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a shot forcer. But I have seen the effect of a shot forcer and I felt it was justifiable to see them blocked. If I seen a PF or a C getting those blocks I wouldn't mind it. But the point is anyone can get a block through all 5 positions sometimes. I'm not saying they should stop someone from a getting good blocks, but I just don't wanna see another 2K13 with no blocks or 2K14 with every block. I'll take the credit In saying I'm wrong though, thank you for explaining it

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But the important question is if you were a developer, "how" would you balance out the blocking? What would your solution to block fests if you were a developer?

A lot of point guards are able to dunk the basketball in the NBA, or at least touch the rim with their hands. All NBA players have a pretty good vertical leap. If developers are taking this into account and programming virtual 2k16 players with their real life vertical jumping ability, if someone uses a point guard to chase down a block, and positions himself properly, and times his jump properly, what would be your solution to stopping the point guard from blocking the shot?

See, if blocks happen too often it suggests that they need to be tuned better, just as shots need to be tuned if they go in too often. Maybe it means the timing window needs to be smaller. Maybe it needs to produce more fouls with the right animation if it's not timed well. Maybe there needs to be a better balance of risk and reward with the different types of contest controls.

If there are too many or too little of something, it usually suggests adjustments need to be made. It's no different from shot rates and success. And we all know what it's like when you can "glitch" shot success by perfect timing. I see no reason this should be any different for other things like blocks and steals.

Anyway, I really like the actual implementation of block animations this year. They look convincing and authentic without being too exaggerated. I like that I can have ground bound shot blockers like Bogut and Green. Just had a game where Green blocked a late game layup by Lillard like he's wont to do. Very nice.

Preface: Why can't people be more like you and pick your favorite team to play with? As a Warriors fan myself, I can't ever imagine playing with any other team than GSW. It was great to see the Warriors championship introduction during the first game in MyLeague. If I was a 76ers fan, I could not imagine playing with any other team than the 76ers.

Back on topic: Anyways, I see steals and blocks as something different than making shots because steals/blocks is a two object collision system. If I swipe my hands toward the ball and make actual physical contact, that should result in a steal or at least the ball should get deflected. The same goes with blocks. If I go up for a block because I timed my jump and was in good position, I should be able to block the ball because my virtual player's hand actually made contact with the ball....... otherwise we would get player's hands warping through balls, going into replay mode, raging because you can clearly see the player's hand taking a swipe directly on the ball, but the CPU decides a dunk was going to happen regardless of what the user did OR a drive to the lane was going to happen even if the user swats at the ball.

Shooting success is different because it's not based on a two objection collision physics based system. In simpler terms, one might consider shooting as based on "luck" so to speak.



Now my solution to blocks/steals would be more contextual awareness by the player with the player having the ability to manipulate his arm movements while in the air to avoid blocks, and the player having the ability to manipulate his arm movements while being guard to avoid steals. Maybe solutions for block and steal is a timing window. Time it wrong and you're slapping the persons hand instead of the ball. But hands warping through balls is not a good way to tune things.

Blocking: Player A needs to realize there is a shot blocker (Player B) close by. If Player A goes up for a dunk, and Player B is in proper position and has proper timing down, player A should have the tools to move his arms to avoid Player B's hands. Blocking is a two object collision system while shooting is not.

Steals: Player A with the ball needs to have tools to protect the ball. Player B should not be able to constantly swipe at the ball without any success. If Player B times his swipe correctly and his hands makes physical contact with the ball, a steal should happen. Hands shouldn't be warping through balls just to lower the steal success rate (for both user and cpu). Steal is a two object collision system while shooting is not.

[ataman5]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

It's great and feels so right don't change a bit 2k. Feels so natural.


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[Sundown]

Do you think shot blocking is back?

But the important question is if you were a developer, "how" would you balance out the blocking? What would your solution to block fests if you were a developer?

A lot of point guards are able to dunk the basketball in the NBA, or at least touch the rim with their hands. All NBA players have a pretty good vertical leap. If developers are taking this into account and programming virtual 2k16 players with their real life vertical jumping ability, if someone uses a point guard to chase down a block, and positions himself properly, and times his jump properly, what would be your solution to stopping the point guard from blocking the shot?






Preface: Why can't people be more like you and pick your favorite team to play with? As a Warriors fan myself, I can't ever imagine playing with any other team than GSW. It was great to see the Warriors championship introduction during the first game in MyLeague. If I was a 76ers fan, I could not imagine playing with any other team than the 76ers.

Back on topic: Anyways, I see steals and blocks as something different than making shots because steals/blocks is a two object collision system. If I swipe my hands toward the ball and make actual physical contact, that should result in a steal or at least the ball should get deflected. The same goes with blocks. If I go up for a block because I timed my jump and was in good position, I should be able to block the ball because my virtual player's hand actually made contact with the ball....

... otherwise we would get player's hands warping through balls, going into replay mode, raging because you can clearly see the player's hand taking a swipe directly on the ball, but the CPU decides a dunk was going to happen regardless of what the user did OR a drive to the lane was going to happen even if the user swats at the ball.

Shooting success is different because it's not based on a two objection collision physics based system. In simpler terms, one might consider shooting as based on "luck" so to speak.



Now my solution to blocks/steals would be more contextual awareness by the player with the player having the ability to manipulate his arm movements while in the air to avoid blocks, and the player having the ability to manipulate his arm movements while being guard to avoid steals.

Blocking: Player A needs to realize there is a shot blocker (Player B) close by. If Player A goes up for a dunk, and Player B is in proper position and has proper timing down, player A should have the tools to move his arms to avoid Player B's hands. Blocking is a two object collision system while shooting is not.

Steals: Player A with the ball needs to have tools to protect the ball. Player B should be able to constantly swipe at the ball without any success. If Player B times his swipe correctly and his hands makes physical contact with the ball, a steal should happen. Hands shouldn't be warping through balls just to lower the steal success rate (for both user and cpu). Steal is a two object collision system while shooting is not.

Actually shooting is a two object interaction too. The ball and the rim. It just helps the rim doesn't actually move so it's easy to generate appropriate animations based on a few parameters.

Currently it seems that blocks and steals don't work that differently-- there seems to be some calculations performed that influence the animations played based on context and rating, and they affect the inverse kinematics to get the hand to meet the ball. It's obviously a much more complicated problem but I don't think 2K is actually completely simulating limbs and ball physics in their entirety, so if there are numbers under the hood that determine probabilities based on user timing to affect outcome animations, they can always be tweaked.

But yes, I've only and ever run with GSW except for a stint in 2011 as Dallas against some Heat band wagoners online. Now I'm sure anyone I play against will think I'm just a bandwagoning 3 point cheeser. But man, playing as Curry given the full signature treatment is SO fun. The only thing I would want that's not in the game are his leaning forward threes, and how he often leans back and back peddles quickly after shooting on the move. There is a less dynamic version of that in the pull up package but it doesn't look quite the same. But I digress.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

Better more than less imo. I think it's right where it needs to be, just not in park because it's a block fest sometimes there


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Necessary evil, lol

I feel like it forces people to pass a bit more


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[sleepyshotta]

Re: Do you think shot blocking is back?

I feel shot blocking is perfect.


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