Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

[RetroDee4Three]

Hi all,


I want to have a serious discussion about this, and hopefully get the devs attention on the matter.


The skating/floating in this game is happening constantly, and it impacts the feel and look of the game in a major way. It's part of the reason the movement feels sluggish at times, and nothing is more important in a sports game than player movement, because it impacts your control as a user.


Players are literally floating about the court at times. Player movement in general is troubling in this game, as you will constantly hit "invisible walls" or be a magnet to defenders. At times, you will literally be "sucked in" to the defense (Of course, sliding all the way there). In my videos below, you will see that with Derrick Favors. Invisible walls happen when you try to round a corner, and you defender is technically on your side now, but you are stopped by.... nothing.... your progress is impeded even though you should have momentum moving forward.


The game suffers from constant speed breaks/acceleration breaks, where you will make a solid move, and your player will make his way to his spot in like 3 different speeds. Acceleration in general seldom exists, as running on the fastbreak feels like a light jog, even with players like Westbrook and Wall. And, rounding the corner with any speed in the half court? forget about it, the players don't have enough speed (This is even with acceleration sliders tuned up to 100), and player speed/quickness increased as well.


This game has some decent moments on the court, and visually (especially up close with the current teams) is breathtaking. But, nothing is more important than the on court NBA action, the gameplay itself. This is where 2K19 falls short, and causes more frustration than joy at time.


Here are video examples of the skating, floating, sliding and gliding in 2K19, I like to provide video feedback whenever possible. The skating started when 2K implemented the new motion system in NBA 2K18, and player movement is actually worse this year in some cases because of all of the speed breaks.


Animation wise, the game suffers from layups taken way to far out, "rocket" animations going towards the hoop, etc. So that would also fall under player movement issues. Legacy issues are still present (Body steals and body blocks, slow passes) but I'm more concerned with the overall player movement.


This isn't a "2K *****" thread, or a nit picking thread, or a invite to "crap on 2K" thread. This is a thread where I want to have a serious discussion about this glaring gameplay issue. 90% of my YT channel is made up from 2K17 gameplay videos, and most of the other % is of other 2K games. I simply want the best for this game, and NBA Live, I want the games in the basketball gaming space to be awesome.







Note: In the first video, you will literally see Ray Allen skating on every single step towards the hoop, this was felt and seen on broadcast view, it stuck out like a sore thumb, this is happening on most drive. Also, I've been playing basketball video games since the late 80's/early 90's, and have owned every 2K and Live since they started making basketball games. I have done side by side comparisons between 2K19's player movement, and 2K14 through 2K17 on this gen, and the foot planting was far better and more realistic in those games, as well as control of the on court action.


This game is in sore need of some foot planting, and loosening up of the player movement. Lets have a discussion about it.




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[Cavs2016]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

This is my number one issue with the current state of 2k.

Player movement is terrible for the most part. And for the people who truly love the game of basketball, it’s impossible to ignore and not be frustrated by.

I sound like a broken record on this topic, but it’s the #1 reason I haven’t bought the game yet.

I’m a HUUUUGE basketball player and watcher in real life and the player movement in 2k is so bad and unrealistic that it’s a deal-breaker for me.

Like man how do you manage to turn a collection of some of the greatest athletes on the planet into some slow, stiff, awkward-moving bums.

[DonWuan]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

1 rule to follow if you are a fan of 2k.


Never
Ever
Ever

Watch replay.

2k has to pick every year. Either sliding, morphing, clipping, elbow blocks etc.

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

1 rule to follow if you are a fan of 2k.


Never
Ever
Ever

Watch replay.

2k has to pick every year. Either sliding, morphing, clipping, elbow blocks etc.

The problem is, it's not just seen on replays. It's easily seen and felt throughout the entirety of the game. The players are skating all over the court.

[DonWuan]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

The problem is, it's not just seen on replays. It's easily seen and felt throughout the entirety of the game. The players are skating all over the court.

Oh I agree, I just assume most scratch there head like me. I enjoy live also and they handle sliding a better. It's a problem every year and I think it's a necessary evil. More sliding equals less clipping.

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Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

[BQ32]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Some of the movement is an eyesore, but what bothers me even more is the instances it impacts gameplay. I feel like because offense and defense were imbalanced last year they nerfed a lot of the motion and speed. I don't know what the fix is at this point. I really thought the 2ku in the prelude felt silky smooth and great but since the full game dropped I have completely lost that feeling and now feel I am back to fighting with the game a lot more. Actually feel l had much better command and control of my player in 2k18 even though to reach that point had a steeper learning curve.

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I've unlocked some serious potential in this game. I'm going to post some sliders tomorrow and a video.

I've been able to loosen up the movement, improve pace, etc stay tuned.

[Daywalker86]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

This along with your players getting caught and stuck on 'nothing' becomes more apparent the more you play. A little sliding is probably always going to be there at least as long as it's in this current engine, but getting caught on 'air screens' is infuriating.

[NxckBrxdlvy]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Oh I agree, I just assume most scratch there head like me. I enjoy live also and they handle sliding a better. It's a problem every year and I think it's a necessary evil. More sliding equals less clipping.

[ATTACH]155468[/ATTACH]

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

imo, clipping >> sliding. clipping is usually just visual. sliding is always gonna affect gameplay

[SincerelYourz]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Hi all,


I want to have a serious discussion about this, and hopefully get the devs attention on the matter.


The skating/floating in this game is happening constantly, and it impacts the feel and look of the game in a major way. It's part of the reason the movement feels sluggish at times, and nothing is more important in a sports game than player movement, because it impacts your control as a user.


Players are literally floating about the court at times. Player movement in general is troubling in this game, as you will constantly hit "invisible walls" or be a magnet to defenders. At times, you will literally be "sucked in" to the defense (Of course, sliding all the way there). In my videos below, you will see that with Derrick Favors. Invisible walls happen when you try to round a corner, and you defender is technically on your side now, but you are stopped by.... nothing.... your progress is impeded even though you should have momentum moving forward.


The game suffers from constant speed breaks/acceleration breaks, where you will make a solid move, and your player will make his way to his spot in like 3 different speeds. Acceleration in general seldom exists, as running on the fastbreak feels like a light jog, even with players like Westbrook and Wall. And, rounding the corner with any speed in the half court? forget about it, the players don't have enough speed (This is even with acceleration sliders tuned up to 100), and player speed/quickness increased as well.


This game has some decent moments on the court, and visually (especially up close with the current teams) is breathtaking. But, nothing is more important than the on court NBA action, the gameplay itself. This is where 2K19 falls short, and causes more frustration than joy at time.


Here are video examples of the skating, floating, sliding and gliding in 2K19, I like to provide video feedback whenever possible. The skating started when 2K implemented the new motion system in NBA 2K18, and player movement is actually worse this year in some cases because of all of the speed breaks.


Animation wise, the game suffers from layups taken way to far out, "rocket" animations going towards the hoop, etc. So that would also fall under player movement issues. Legacy issues are still present (Body steals and body blocks, slow passes) but I'm more concerned with the overall player movement.


This isn't a "2K *****" thread, or a nit picking thread, or a invite to "crap on 2K" thread. This is a thread where I want to have a serious discussion about this glaring gameplay issue. 90% of my YT channel is made up from 2K17 gameplay videos, and most of the other % is of other 2K games. I simply want the best for this game, and NBA Live, I want the games in the basketball gaming space to be awesome.







Note: In the first video, you will literally see Ray Allen skating on every single step towards the hoop, this was felt and seen on broadcast view, it stuck out like a sore thumb, this is happening on most drive. Also, I've been playing basketball video games since the late 80's/early 90's, and have owned every 2K and Live since they started making basketball games. I have done side by side comparisons between 2K19's player movement, and 2K14 through 2K17 on this gen, and the foot planting was far better and more realistic in those games, as well as control of the on court action.


This game is in sore need of some foot planting, and loosening up of the player movement. Lets have a discussion about it.




<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6RShlI-APSs" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>


<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VksyXnhU2BQ" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>


<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FE3mruSlifQ" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5jBkoEM0SSE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Okay, so here is a good example of what I am talking about in regards to "unlocking" the player movement potential/game potential.


One of the problems with the game out of the box is not only the players skating/floating, but the sluggishness/speed breaks that occur. Out of the box, the game feels clunky during change of direction, fastbreaks dont look or feel realistic, passing is slow and delayed, and the game severely lacks explosion.


In this video, you will notice the pace up and down the floor, the explosion on first steps, and the fact that the players are not "breaking speed" at random times. Fastbreaks look and feel better, the passing is crisper, and you won't notice "invisible walls" as much.


I've noticed that it's not the game speed thats the problem really, it's the acceleration/speed with ball/speed attributes of players. My sliders target those areas, while also making the game speed 48 (Down two from default). Watching this video, you would never know that game speed was LOWERED, which is the best part.


This game sorely lacked life, with these sliders I was able to give it some. I am also using a mod for PC that increases the lighting in the arenas, including the crowds. Which gives it a quasi Live/2K look, that brings the game to life.



Also, because of these adjustments, the games sliding isn't as noticeable, as you feel you have more control of the players. I have had a few people try them, and they said they noticed a big difference.


(Note: I play on PC, so this video showcases a Charles Barkley mod, as well as the classic Nets court in place of the BKN Nets court on the All-Time teams)




Sliders are on 2K share under Dee4three Sliders (PC)

- Start with HOF as default, and adjust per my screenshots below (Or download my sliders off of 2Kshare). You don't have to start on HOF default, this works for all difficulty levels, but its what I do.

* Put your game speed at 48.

* Pass speed: 65 - Passes by default are slow in this game, causing frustrating turnovers. If you up the pass speed slider, it makes it so passing is less delayed, and the passes themselves are faster and more realistic. Players pass with oompf, like in real life.

*Body-up Sensitivity:0 - This being at 0, cuts down on the "Invisible Wall" issue a tad, but also stops excessive slow motion side by side movement that occurs in the game. Because of this, your first step and dribble move matter more, and players feel more explosive. This is also supposed to cut down on the "sbeimg sucked in"

*Jump Shot defense strength gather and release: 40 - Lowering this to 40, makes it so if you have the appropriate space to hit a shot, you are not forced into a wild miss. This allows you to play more realistically when blue sky is present for a shot.

* Acceleration: 65 This seems to cut down on the speed breaks/sluggish play that happens. Players have a quicker and more realistic first step/catch and go, and are more explosive off the dribble.

* Speed: 57 Just as it's advertised, it's supposed give the game a more real life NBA action feel, as well as cut down on some of the speed breaks.


* Speed with ball/acceleration with ball: 75/50 ratio - Players in 2K19 run up and down the floor unrealistically slow, and fastbreaks are extremely underwhelming with the defaults of 70-30 ratio. This makes it so fastbreaks have more realistic speed from the ball handler, and combining the this with speed and acceleration increases for off ball players, the fastbreaks are more fun and realistic.




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Here is another video (With game speed at 50, but with the other sliders the same). A global and court mod was used, but no enhanced lighting.



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[ch46647]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I’m trying these now. Love the pace and speed in your videos.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Pelicans video looks great Retro. Movement/passing speed sliders really opened up the game for me in 2k18 and I'd imagine they would do the same in 2k19

[ch46647]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Retro- In a few minutes of playing around in scrimmage, the game feels a lot better from a movement standpoint. You should post these in the slider forum.

Any other adjustments beyond what you’ve listed above?

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Retro- In a few minutes of playing around in scrimmage, the game feels a lot better from a movement standpoint. You should post these in the slider forum.

Any other adjustments beyond what you’ve listed above?

Thanks, I appreciate it. I'll post them over there shortly.

I have defensive rebounding at 70 and offensive rebounding at 30, as once again the offensive rebounding is overpowering. This makes the offensive rebound numbers more realistic, and causes less WTF moments where the CPU grabs like 3 or 4 offensive rebounds on a single play.

Get out on the fastbreak during 5 on 5 action, and make moves on catch and go's. You will notice more realistic pace, less speed breaks, and overall just a better feel and gameplay experience.