Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Have you considered creating a thread where you post your sliders when you're done? I like what I'm seeing so far, I think it could benefit other users as well if it gets more visibility. Keep up with the good job btw!

Of course, right now it's me and RetroDee4Three going back and forth with ideas; once the results are good we'll get it together in one post.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I'm going after it a slightly different way; working on getting the fg% down to realistic numbers first,going on theory that reasonable fg% should equal more misses, and thus more rebounds.

So far I seem to have CPU fg% getting close,and it's bearing out some realistic rebounding numbers; just need to work on getting team mate fg% down to the same range and I think it will be squared away.

I think I'm on the right track with steals too, just needs a little more tweaking.

Also, I upped the Shot Contest tendency for both user and CPU to 60; people now play more correct hands up defense on shooters.It has the side effect of reducing the number of bail out shooting fouls since players aren't jumping for blocks all the time.

I think I'm on to something for fg% and rebounds, try these additional adjustments and let me know what you think.

Inside Shot Success- 40, both
Close Shot Success- 40, both
3pt Shot Success- 40, both
Layup Success- 40,both
Contact Shot Success- 30, both
Body Up Sensitivity- 30, CPU only

Layup defense Strength(Takeoff) - 40,both

On Ball Defense - 40,both
Defensive Awareness- 65,both
Lateral Quickness- 45,both

Throw Alley Oop Tendency- 47,both
Contest Shot Tendency- 60,both

I set the Frequency of all fouls to 53 for both.

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I think I'm on to something for fg% and rebounds, try these additional adjustments and let me know what you think.

Inside Shot Success- 40, both
Close Shot Success- 40, both
3pt Shot Success- 40, both
Layup Success- 40,both
Contact Shot Success- 30, both
Body Up Sensitivity- 30, CPU only

Layup defense Strength(Takeoff) - 40,both

On Ball Defense - 40,both
Defensive Awareness- 65,both
Lateral Quickness- 45,both

Throw Alley Oop Tendency- 47,both
Contest Shot Tendency- 60,both

I set the Frequency of all fouls to 53 for both.

So yeah, your shooting sliders are lower than HOF difficulty for the User (which I'm cool with). User is set to around 45 and CPU to around 55. So 40 on those might be tough for a User to stomach (especially a casual player).

But, you are talking about realistic FG% for the CPU, so let's focus on that. Are you simming CPU vs CPU to test percentages? Or are you watching them play and seeing what they shoot? Sometimes the results vary depending.

Also, we should test if this is good for User vs CPU as well, as that's the way the majority of people will play (or test it user vs user, and actually I could test that with my brother).

Also, are you using my player movement sliders during these tests?

My biggest focus was on that, but this is interesting to me.

FYI - Just played a full game with body up sensitivity at 20 for CPU and User, and I felt like the suckling in was happening more, and I was getting caught more often on bodies (unrealistically). That's why I had it at 0, I'll do some more testing though

Btw, If you want to decrease the number of steals, up ball handling and hands a tad. Put hands at around 60-65 and ball handling around the same level. It doesn't stop BODY steals, but players get pockets picked less.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

So yeah, your shooting sliders are lower than HOF difficulty for the User (which I'm cool with). User is set to around 45 and CPU to around 55. So 40 on those might be tough for a User to stomach (especially a casual player).

But, you are talking about realistic FG% for the CPU, so let's focus on that. Are you simming CPU vs CPU to test percentages? Or are you watching them play and seeing what they shoot? Sometimes the results vary depending.

Also, we should test if this is good for User vs CPU as well, as that's the way the majority of people will play (or test it user vs user, and actually I could test that with my brother).

Also, are you using my player movement sliders during these tests?

My biggest focus was on that, but this is interesting to me.

FYI - Just played a full game with body up sensitivity at 20 for CPU and User, and I felt like the suckling in was happening more, and I was getting caught more often on bodies (unrealistically). That's why I had it at 0, I'll do some more testing though

Btw, If you want to decrease the number of steals, up ball handling and hands a tad. Put hands at around 60-65 and ball handling around the same level. It doesn't stop BODY steals, but players get pockets picked less.

The sliders are indeed a little low, the way it plays out is as long as you work for a good open shot you can still hit them at a good clip(75% ish),but trying to jack up bad quality shots or go up on 3 people won't really work out. With the lower body sliders it's actually easier to get your looks off of the actions in the playbook, which balances things a bit for human players.

I did use your movement sliders in conjunction,the only only change I made was CPU body up sensitivity at 30,I left User body up sensitivity at 0. I also learned that Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff), On Ball Defense, and Lateral Quickness sliders also contribute to the sticky feeling.Dropping those down some opened up movement even more.

I tested by watching CPU vs CPU games and I played vs CPU myself, I got good results from both. Team FG% was right around the 50% mark, and rebounds worked out almost dead in the middle of average rebounds in an NBA game.

Good call on the hands and ball handling sliders, I'll try upping those the next session and see what it affects.The real problem was on ball steals and intercepted passes so it should help.

[Dione2014]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Absolutely, the game is forcing you into directions a lot. Examples include : being sucked into defenders, forcing you into a layup animation when you are trying to pull up (even if it's like 18 ft out) etc. Combine that with the look and feel of the skating, the action can get ugly and the control can feel lost.

I feel you pain on that Curry situation. For those who said that clipping or sliding (2K had to choose, so they went with sliding) that's not true at all, and I say that with all due respect. The clipping is just as bad in this game as it was in 2K17 and 2K18, I took screenshots of players literally going THROUGH other players, arms going through bodies, heads going through bodies, a lot of clipping in this game.

The new motion system with 2K18 started the skating/floating issues. Intances occurred in other 2Ks, but it wasn't on every play and throughout the game. I think that some foot planting would go a long way in helping the visual appeal, but most important the control we have over the on court action.

My sliders do really well to fix things like speed breaks, acceleration issues, poor pass speeds, and just the overall slow pace that the game is out of the box. But, the skating/sliding/floating issues are part of the game engine, we can't do anything about those, sliders can't and won't be able to fix those problems.

I'm actually enjoying the game a bit now that it has some life, but the skating issue is still seen a lot.

I'd have to actually respectfully disagree with you about the clipping. NBA 2K18 And 2K17 we're just the worse with clipping. I can deal with some clipping, But 18 was just out of hand. Now while 2K19 does have some player to player clipping. The ball is typically always live and rarely goes through players bodies. Now i have videos where the ball does clip, so it does happen, but it really isn't anywhere near as much as the 2 previous iterations.



With NBA 2K18 the CPU didn't even try to hide it. Just dribble right through your body. You could be stand directly in the defenders space clipping through him. I mean just faces clipping through faces before the game even thought about triggering some sort of protect animation. I was truly not only an eye sore, but it also through all basketball logic right out the window.

[TheDominator273]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Dint forget to add the mario running( running in place when u hit another player). Has been my number 1 issue with this game it takes away from the realism


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Like this?

[jetsman92]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

The sliders are indeed a little low, the way it plays out is as long as you work for a good open shot you can still hit them at a good clip(75% ish),but trying to jack up bad quality shots or go up on 3 people won't really work out. With the lower body sliders it's actually easier to get your looks off of the actions in the playbook, which balances things a bit for human players.

I did use your movement sliders in conjunction,the only only change I made was CPU body up sensitivity at 30,I left User body up sensitivity at 0. I also learned that Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff), On Ball Defense, and Lateral Quickness sliders also contribute to the sticky feeling.Dropping those down some opened up movement even more.

I tested by watching CPU vs CPU games and I played vs CPU myself, I got good results from both. Team FG% was right around the 50% mark, and rebounds worked out almost dead in the middle of average rebounds in an NBA game.

Good call on the hands and ball handling sliders, I'll try upping those the next session and see what it affects.The real problem was on ball steals and intercepted passes so it should help.

But the hands slider has more to do with deflections..
Even says so in the description of the slider

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I'd have to actually respectfully disagree with you about the clipping. NBA 2K18 And 2K17 we're just the worse with clipping. I can deal with some clipping, But 18 was just out of hand. Now while 2K19 does have some player to player clipping. The ball is typically always live and rarely goes through players bodies. Now i have videos where the ball does clip, so it does happen, but it really isn't anywhere near as much as the 2 previous iterations.



With NBA 2K18 the CPU didn't even try to hide it. Just dribble right through your body. You could be stand directly in the defenders space clipping through him. I mean just faces clipping through faces before the game even thought about triggering some sort of protect animation. I was truly not only an eye sore, but it also through all basketball logic right out the window.

No worries, we can disagree. I just know that I've played 2k17 more than you would believe, and it seems about the same in 2K19. Regardless, I don't think you or I care about that as much as other more important parts of the games make up.

I expect things like clipping to be in video games, this happens in pretty much all of them. And the fact that so much body contact exists in the NBA, it would be shocking if they found a way to eliminate clipping completely.

Either way, I'm enjoying the vibe in this thread, as it's been good conversation overall, people have been respectful to the topic and eachother. Couldn't ask for anything more than that, so thank you all.

I'm getting solid feedback on my YT videos and by a few people on the NLSC about my slider set, so that's encouraging.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Operation Sports mobile app

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

But the hands slider has more to do with deflections..
Even says so in the description of the slider

Good call.

I thought it had to do with hands, as in grip of the ball.

So disregard that one, but ball handling could help. I raised both of them in my test, and steals were lower, but it could have been a fluke.

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[JoFri]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Agreed on 2K18, it was the biggest let down I have had in sports gaming, especially since 2K17 (Pre January 2017 patch) was one of the better 2K's I had played. Granted, the game still had issues (SG/SF moving out of bounds when the ball was brought up, Pick n Roll exploit, brick wall defense). But overall, the foot planting was sound, the game was reactive, and the pace was solid and fun. When 2K18 came out, it introduced the new motion system which including a lot of strange animations going towards the hoop, skating all over the floor, and the infamous blow by issue (And terrible defense all around). It also introduced worse atmosphere, where the arenas were much darker than real life counterparts, and the courts had no life. I spent thousands of hours on 2K17, and I couldn't play 2K18 for 5 minutes without wanting to chuck the controller.

Spoiler

Just a slight correction (I have side by side videos to prove this), the skating was introduced as a COMMON occurrence in 2K18 (After being out of the series since 2K10). In past titles, you would get instances, but it wasn't all the time. It hasn't been a few years with the skating, it's been since the new motion system (So the last 2 games).


The court spacing in Live 19 is awesome, and I post videos of both titles on my YT. I prefer the gameplay overall on Live, where they fall extremely short is depth. Can't use classic players offline, franchise mode is bare bones, customizations is limited. So for those who want to have variety, and don't want to just run with current teams, it's a big let down. Check out my YT channel and you will see my Live videos, I have a blast with the game overall. However, they are targeting the younger demographic (Per the dev team), and this is troubling, as targeting teenagers can work a bit while they are still teenagers, but what happens when they grow out of the "Street" phase, they won't give Live a look.


2K19 has improved over 2K18 in quite a few areas. Mostly, defense. The blow by exploit made it so you could run by anybody, with anybody, whenever you wants. You didn't even need to pull off moves, just push forward ont he joystick (Which is how the dude in the 2k sports league scored like 70 of his 84 points). The help defense and transition defense was also a disaster, and none of this could be fixed with sliders. THIS could be done on HOF with ease (The NBAtv scoreboard was a mod).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwn0kBkpkU&t=12s

So already, I am playing 2K19 more, because they curved the blow by issues, and defense issues, so you actually have to use basketball strategy to score. I am the epitome of an unbiased party, as I want the best for both gaming companies (EA and 2K), I want both of them to flourish and create great basketball games, because they will both make eachother better. Also with 2K19, the lighting has improved slightly, and the graphics overall on close-ups are unreal, they exceed the graphics of 2K18.


But again, the biggest reason is the defense/blow by fix, as this year you don't have to "fake sim" to enjoy the game.


In regards to you lurking, A lot more people are doing that this year. Best advice I can give is: If you have a console, download the demo of Live and the Prelude on 2K in order to get a feel for the gameplay, and if you have a buddy who owns 2K19, play it at his place first (I recommend my sliders in order for you to have a better feel/experience). But if you care about depth offline, and want classic players, more customization, a deep franchise, etc... AND you find that you enjoy the gameplay on 2K (Gives you more joy than frustration), I would go with 2K.


Live does some things better. Namely: Foot planting, pace/flow, players move off the ball better, shots on the move are slightly better (Which I can't believe after Live 18). RPM did Live wonders, and I really like the game. However, it still suffers from a clunky post game (Where some of the robotic Live 18 animations are still present), and you don't feel like you have full control in the post because of it, it suffers still from rocket animations at times, it doesn't have camera relative controls (Which is a huge surprise), and the players lack explosion at times (John Wall can feel a bit too much like Raymond Felton).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg6NPHWORBk

I own both, play both, upload videos of both. But what will have me playing 2K19 more is the depth, and Im on PC so I can mod the hell out of it.

I'm so glad I found someone enjoying 17 as I do. I shelved 18 with less than a month after purchase.
RetroDee4Three, can I check if yor sliders can differentiate player speed? I dont want Valanciunas and Bledsoe running down the court side by side.




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[El_Poopador]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I broke down and bought it for the XB1 since I'm not sure when I'll get my PC back up and running. They need to make player movement the #1 priority for 2K20, because it is absolutely atrocious this year.

I played a few games of My Career, and I literally couldn't do anything because my player was stuck in mud, and the CPU defender was sliding in front of me every time I got a step. Even when I would get open, they would close out too fast to take the shot, and because the game doesn't take momentum into account, I couldn't even take advantage of them closing out to drive past them; they just immediately shifted in front of me on a dime.

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I'm so glad I found someone enjoying 17 as I do. I shelved 18 with less than a month after purchase.
RetroDee4Three, can I check if yor sliders can differentiate player speed? I dont want Valanciunas and Bledsoe running down the court side by side.




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I actually feel like it's a good balance with the sliders that I have. But, I can look at making the gap a little bit wider in future tweaks.


In regards to 2K17, it was the last game with the previous motion system, and I think they reached the max potential with it (Other than a few defensive woes). I put the most hours into 2K17 second to NBA 2K14.

[RetroDee4Three]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

I broke down and bought it for the XB1 since I'm not sure when I'll get my PC back up and running. They need to make player movement the #1 priority for 2K20, because it is absolutely atrocious this year.

I played a few games of My Career, and I literally couldn't do anything because my player was stuck in mud, and the CPU defender was sliding in front of me every time I got a step. Even when I would get open, they would close out too fast to take the shot, and because the game doesn't take momentum into account, I couldn't even take advantage of them closing out to drive past them; they just immediately shifted in front of me on a dime.

Yeah, the sliding/skating is a killer, and it impacts gameplay (Not just visual). Combine the sliding with being "sucked in" or "Glued" to other players (Like Derrick Favors in my video on the first post) and it can get pretty frustrating.


Try my sliders where you can, and tell me if that improved anything. Obviously you cant use them in all modes, but in the ones you can.

[and1play51]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

Okay, so here is a good example of what I am talking about in regards to "unlocking" the player movement potential/game potential.


One of the problems with the game out of the box is not only the players skating/floating, but the sluggishness/speed breaks that occur. Out of the box, the game feels clunky during change of direction, fastbreaks dont look or feel realistic, passing is slow and delayed, and the game severely lacks explosion.


In this video, you will notice the pace up and down the floor, the explosion on first steps, and the fact that the players are not "breaking speed" at random times. Fastbreaks look and feel better, the passing is crisper, and you won't notice "invisible walls" as much.


I've noticed that it's not the game speed thats the problem really, it's the acceleration/speed with ball/speed attributes of players. My sliders target those areas, while also making the game speed 48 (Down two from default). Watching this video, you would never know that game speed was LOWERED, which is the best part.


This game sorely lacked life, with these sliders I was able to give it some. I am also using a mod for PC that increases the lighting in the arenas, including the crowds. Which gives it a quasi Live/2K look, that brings the game to life.



Also, because of these adjustments, the games sliding isn't as noticeable, as you feel you have more control of the players. I have had a few people try them, and they said they noticed a big difference.


(Note: I play on PC, so this video showcases a Charles Barkley mod, as well as the classic Nets court in place of the BKN Nets court on the All-Time teams)




Sliders are on 2K share under Dee4three Sliders (PC)

- Start with HOF as default, and adjust per my screenshots below (Or download my sliders off of 2Kshare). You don't have to start on HOF default, this works for all difficulty levels, but its what I do.

* Put your game speed at 48.

* Pass speed: 65 - Passes by default are slow in this game, causing frustrating turnovers. If you up the pass speed slider, it makes it so passing is less delayed, and the passes themselves are faster and more realistic. Players pass with oompf, like in real life.

*Body-up Sensitivity:0 - This being at 0, cuts down on the "Invisible Wall" issue a tad, but also stops excessive slow motion side by side movement that occurs in the game. Because of this, your first step and dribble move matter more, and players feel more explosive. This is also supposed to cut down on the "sbeimg sucked in"

*Jump Shot defense strength gather and release: 40 - Lowering this to 40, makes it so if you have the appropriate space to hit a shot, you are not forced into a wild miss. This allows you to play more realistically when blue sky is present for a shot.

* Acceleration: 65 This seems to cut down on the speed breaks/sluggish play that happens. Players have a quicker and more realistic first step/catch and go, and are more explosive off the dribble.

* Speed: 57 Just as it's advertised, it's supposed give the game a more real life NBA action feel, as well as cut down on some of the speed breaks.


* Speed with ball/acceleration with ball: 75/50 ratio - Players in 2K19 run up and down the floor unrealistically slow, and fastbreaks are extremely underwhelming with the defaults of 70-30 ratio. This makes it so fastbreaks have more realistic speed from the ball handler, and combining the this with speed and acceleration increases for off ball players, the fastbreaks are more fun and realistic.




<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6UHN2SSz-Ng" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>






Here is another video (With game speed at 50, but with the other sliders the same). A global and court mod was used, but no enhanced lighting.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aUdevkLE7JA" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Trying now on PC

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

An interesting thread from the Sliders forum that helps explain settings and player movement:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...explained.html