Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

[Sundown]

Just played my first two online games.

Not seeing the defense improved inside or outside at all.

First player just spammed iso moves with Kyrie all game and paint cheesed. There's no way to contest shots reliably online, because:

1. The RS hands up is extremely slow. And it's next to ineffectual. It's not even very useful offline.

2. Blocking takes too long to cue up. With online lag timing, you get blocks trigger 1.5 seconds after you press it. By then Kyrie's shot is already on its way.

3. Layup percentages are extremely high. I know Mike removed the artificial lowering of layup percentages, but the actual interior defense is not affecting it much with guards and fast guys who can drive and spam isomotion inside, ie Lin, Harden, Kyrie, Rose, etc.

4. I'm not seeing lost balls in the paint from too much iso with good ball handlers. Guards are the new interior offense of this year's 2K. Forget big men.

Second game, I kept pace with a Bulls player only because he wasn't quite as good at iso spamming. I also was hitting my 3's as GSW. Once I went on a drought and played a little bad defense, it was Rose interior spamming once again, and this is how he kept and built up his lead.

Oh, this was with me switching Iggy AND playing off-ball defense AND crowding the paint after realizing there's no way I could keep up with the lag and with Kyrie sinking 3's on the perimeter for an 11-0 run. On-ball, off-ball, it doesn't matter. Iso spam paint cheese.

So where's the SIM/Defensive play everyone was touting? First two games were not good experiences at all.

I'd ask if I was doing something wrong, but I'm attempting to play sim basketball so I can't be doing THAT many things wrong from a realism standpoint. It shouldn't result in immediate blowouts against elite PG guards shooting 60% of the shots.

[Ramboooo]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

it's like you're describing a completely different game. give it some time I guess

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Defense is awesome this year, but you will always run into "spammers" or "cheesers" in random quick online games. For one most of them do not even know better. They don't know what sim is and all they see is the hoop so they hold trigger to try and get there. Play a zone if it is that, but good on ball defense should be able to keep them out of the paint.

The contact layups will go in sometimes if you don't bring weakside help over or try to block them once you create the contact.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Try playing some more online game before condemning the game. I played my first game last night, and I saw some high in the paint scoring. I just chalked it to my inexperience with new the new controls and not being used to the feel of the game. I'll have a different opinion once I complete at least twenty games.

[bls]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Try playing some more online game before condemning the game. I played my first game last night, and I saw some high in the paint scoring. I just chalked it to my inexperience with new the new controls and not being used to the feel of the game. I'll have a different opinion once I complete at leaast twenty games.

Itll be the same.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Try playing some more online game before condemning the game. I played my first game last night, and I saw some high in the paint scoring. I just chalked it to my inexperience with new the new controls and not being used to the feel of the game. I'll have a different opinion once I complete at least twenty games.

Thing is that I've played 2K for years, mostly offline but enough online to not be completely incompetent. This is the year that online is supposed to be improved and yet things seem even worse in certain respects.

Point is, paint iso cheese layup spamming is still pretty darned successful. Yes, I could practice and get better but there's a lot wrong if none of the fundamentals-- packing the paint, putting your best defender on they spamming superstar, using RS contest, trying to block, even off-ball-- work that well, and reports of the new defense forcing sim and being "balanced" seem pretty exaggerated. In fact, paint defense seems worse this year because of the long queue up of block animations and ineffectual AND laggy RS.

Or maybe Bogut just sucks in the game.

3rd game was better in that at least he was playing a drive and kick game with Parker, but it wasn't really a "drive", it was once again, iso spamming into Iggy's legs over and over until he got close enough to the basket and drew defenders enough to kick out. That would have been turnover after turnover in real life.

4th game was actually quite good, only because the player didn't do insane things with Rose and destroyed me legitimately with good ball movement and all his roster. Of course every time Rose drove or had a contact layup he pretty much made it, screw interior defense or the presence of one of the best defense centers in the NBA or the fact that GSW regularly suffocates Rose's game by packing the paint.

So yeah, this balance, I'm just not seeing it yet.

Also in the first game players seemed to zip by at 200 mph. For some reason things seemed to move at a more sane speed afterwards.

[ksuttonjr76]

Thing is that I've played 2K for years, mostly offline but enough online to not be completely incompetent. This is the year that online is supposed to be improved and yet things seem even worse in certain respects.

Point is, paint iso cheese layup spamming is still pretty darned successful. Yes, I could practice and get better but there's a lot wrong if none of the fundamentals-- packing the paint, putting your best defender on they spamming superstar, using RS contest, trying to block, even off-ball-- work that well, and reports of the new defense forcing sim and being "balanced" seem pretty exaggerated. In fact, paint defense seems worse this year because of the long queue up of block animations and ineffectual AND laggy RS.

Or maybe Bogut just sucks in the game.

3rd game was better in that at least he was playing a drive and kick game with Parker, but it wasn't really a "drive", it was once again, iso spamming into Iggy's legs over and over until he got close enough to the basket and drew defenders enough to kick out. That would have been turnover after turnover in real life.

4th game was actually quite good, only because the player didn't do insane things with Rose and destroyed me legitimately with good ball movement and all his roster. Of course every time Rose drove or had a contact layup he pretty much made it, screw interior defense or the presence of one of the best defense centers in the NBA or the fact that GSW regularly suffocates Rose's game by packing the paint.

So yeah, this balance, I'm just not seeing it yet.

Also in the first game players seemed to zip by at 200 mph. For some reason things seemed to move at a more sane speed afterwards.

Man, you made your first comment like I was a straight up newbie with the 2K series. I've been playing online, since NBA 2K4. For me, it usually takes me about 20+ online games and 10+ hours of offline before I get a complete grasp of the game. NBA 2K12 and 2K13 was a complete joke on defense. This year and the first thing that I noticed is that the offense doesn't get 3-5 feet of artificial separation just by bumping into you. That alone is already a step in the right direction for the defense.

The only observation that I agree with is the speed of the players. They're definitely faster.

EDIT: After reading your first post, it sounds like you're crowding the ball handler too much which makes it easier for people to iso spam you.

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

For what it's worth, the complaints I have about defense online I also had offline after playing many long games. I had hoped the issues would be better online and that the CPU was just programmed a bit cheesily with its attacking game. The problems are actually exacerbated online with cheesers and star point guards.

Once again they are:

1. RS is slow AND seemingly ineffectual, both in the perimeter and in the paint.

2. Running at shooters with RS held often doesn't have them contest with hands up because of 1.

3. Shot blocking seems to take a long time to queue and execute from bigs.

4. Contact and contested layups go in at a higher than expected rate if the offensive player has any momentum. Not sure about this, but just doesn't feel "right". Bigs don't seem to be changing their shots or intimidating them much.

5. Offensive rebounding is overpowered, partially because of 1. so you're forced to jump which takes you out of rebounding position. Guards are catching their rebounds and finishing way too often as a result (along with offensive bigs).

I could be doing all kinds of things wrong, but basketball fundamentals as I know them don't seem to be working well for me. Positional defense is a sketchy proposition at times, and just because blocks are "better" (in that they happen more often in certain situations, especially against other bigs) doesn't mean defense is actually better overall.

I welcome tips (especially sim tips) and thoughts about the above observations from a realism standpoint.

[oik01]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Ive been playing it online now ... started with off-ball defense, had a 4-1 winning record... then started playing onball and kept losing most of my games. Thing is with on ball you can see that the defense actually does have benefits, you can really get a lot of steals and things like that, but the main problem is that my opponents end up getting the ball in the paint somehow and score thereafter. Whenever I play on-the-ball, opponent field goal percentage usually ends up near 60-65% which is not survivable. Ive noticed my defenders lose their men often, even on tight. I dont understand why that is, I play the detroit pistons, and at least Drummond and Smith should be monster defenders. The other problem is for some reason, they have drummond and Smith missing a lot under the basket. Smith in particular, cant handle contact at all which is silly given the way he plays. I cant beleive this... on this game id rather shoot a three with smith than go up for a drive/layup/ dunk ... Whomever made up the individual stats was high or something!

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Man, you made your first comment like I was a straight up newbie with the 2K series.

Actually, I responded because you made it sound like *I* was a straight up newbie. It had nothing to do with your experience.

My thought process was: I'm not a basketball idiot. I suck online but I'm not completely incompetent. 2K14 online is supposed to be more balanced, difficult, and sim. Defense is supposed to be improved.

I simply expected playing normal basketball would yield better results than last year's game against cheesers, not worse.

EDIT: After reading your first post session, it sounds like you're crowding the ball handler too much which makes it easier for people to iso spam you.

Except I'm not. I'm packing the paint and sagging off. Yes, I do play up on them when they're only a few feet away from the basket. Should I be sagging a little even then? That doesn't seem like real basketball.

[Sundown]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I dont understand why that is, I play the detroit pistons, and at least Drummond and Smith should be monster defenders. The other problem is for some reason, they have drummond and Smith missing a lot under the basket. Smith in particular, cant handle contact at all which is silly given the way he plays. I cant beleive this... on this game id rather shoot a three with smith than go up for a drive/layup/ dunk ... Whomever made up the individual stats was high or something!

Yes. This. Bigs can't make contact layups unless they're elite (David Lee is fine), but guards can. Average bigs have a hard time around the basket period. Monster interior defenders only seem to neutralize other bigs, and it's a party for athletic guards in there.

It's pretty telling that the Spurs user that beat me never didn't go to Duncan at all.

[oik01]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

I wonder why they dont have an auto defense button like Fifa's x button. You press it and it takes your player close to the defender. They can make it so it drains stamina or can only be pressed for so long before you have to release it for a few seconds. That way defense online is viable, and you can still penetrate occasionally ect...

[oik01]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Yes. This. Bigs can't make contact layups unless they're elite (David Lee is fine), but guards can. Average bigs have a hard time around the basket period. Monster interior defenders only seem to neutralize other bigs, and it's a party for athletic guards in there.

It's pretty telling that the Spurs user that beat me never didn't go to Duncan at all.

Ugh this is so fake... The three main players on teh Pistons are bigs (Monroe, Drummond, and Smith)... its like they made this team useless. They even have a few players missing (Datome whose a huge three point threat for one), Mitchel is put in as a SF when he's a PF, and they have the rotation all wrong.

[oik01]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

BTW just to check, when going for contact layups, do you press R2 with square, or just square?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Sim and Defense online this year? Not seeing it at all.

Just played my first two online games..

Come on man, lol

and I think people are confusing "balance" with "perfection"...The very first thing you have to do is realize you're playing a online ranked quick match- maybe you misunderstood, online can never replicate a full sim experience if both parties aren't sim players....and no game that's has ever been available- from the 2k series to Live is going to stop players from trying to force their way in the paint...the question is how effectively can you combat this?

2k8, 2k11, 2k14 - these are the games that have at the least given you the tools...you just have to learn how to use them...as you did with the dribbling controls...

We have to get out of this "patch first ask questions last" mentality in gaming...