Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

[canes21]

Seriously I don't get why people say it is not sim. I love sim games and feel 2k8 did the best job to date so far. It had button mashing. Can someone please tell me why it is not sim at all?

I mean people complain about Fight for the Fumble because of the button mashing. I don't see what else EA could have done though. Button mashing is as violent as you can get with a controller and the fumble pile-ups are the most violent things in football and thats a fact. They kind of go hand in hand if you ask me.

Then people get angry and say its not "sim" when people want the option to button tap for sprint. If you ask me smashing A to sprint is a lot more realistic than holding a button. By holding the button your player will always go the same speed. By button smashing you can control your speed from a steady jog to a faster jog that allows you to cut, or you can go out and tap it fast and sprint. You basically control the ball carriers feet. The faster you tap, the faster he starts to move his legs.

I also notice people don't truly understand the concept behind button sprinting. They seem to think that it allows you to go past your max speed when in reality thats not true at all. Once you hit the "sprint" stage your runner runs to his 93 speed or whatever his rating may be. It doesn't allow Haynesworth to outrun McNabb for a pick 6 because I have a faster thumb.

The last thing I want to talk about is breaking or branching out of tackles with button mashing. People also seem to think this is fake or unsim. When you have to think about it though. Its not going to allow you to break out of someone who has a high 95 tackle rating. It gives you a fighting chance and allows you to pick up those extra yards. I also look at this as if you are controlling the runners feet once again. The faster you tap the button the faster and harder he keeps his feet moving so he can escape the tackle or at least gain those few yards needed for the first down.

Button mashing may seem like a bad idea or a gimmicky one too, but if you look at it, it really is a lot more realistic than you think.

Thoughts?

[MoneyGames]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

After posting plenty of threads and other posts here at OS Ive come to the concrete conclusion that in some, i said some, which is really most, sim players, really dont want to "play" madden. they actually want to just hike the ball and let the CPU do the rest, i think NFL head coach would fit that crowd perfectly.

The other thing is that the F4F feature really scares most sim players. to begin with theyre bums w very narrow minds and to exclamate that more, they have slllloooooowwwww haaaanndsss, therefore a F4F mini game is something they know they'll lose 8-10 times and would much rather see it out the game.

just my 2 cents, i know kehlis and mmorg are going to rave about this one. "its not sim" "its not realistic" "it doesnt happen on sundays"

But this a video game, this is one of the only features that I feel EA has given the user some control over. everything else is up to the CPU AI

GET YOUR THUMB GAME READY

[judgejudy]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

this is one of those things people will never agree on because the arguments for it and against it are completely valid. on the one hand, how else would you implement "fighting" for the fumble, but on the other, if you want it to be a "pure" sim experience, the skills and ratings of the players should be the deciding factor. i for one, like the idea, however, against the computer i'm not a fan of the button mashing. i can see it being a blast against another person though, so i'm glad it's there, and i'm glad they've given us the ability to disable the button mashing.

[Moegames]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I dont got a problem with having to press button's repeatedly but only when done right. Example of a PERFECT button pressing scheme is NFL2k5 by pressing the button rapidly for acceleration and speed..to me, THIS IS PERFECT for running in football videogames..hopefully Ian and company will consider putting this in M11 as an "option".

Now on a good example of where it just dont feel right is in the fumble pile ups..having to jump to all 4 buttons is way too tedious...it would of been better to keep the button pressing to just one button the entire time..i could deal with that but switching buttons quicky is too "dance dance revolution-ish" if you know what i mean.

Moe

[wheelman990]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I think if EA continues to give us options, such as a controller setting that allows us the tapping running of 2k5, it will result in a much happier group of buyers. If they give us all the features of 2k5, then both madden users and 2k users can be happy with the controls they like in the same game and customize it as they wish. This would go along way with "next generation gaming".

I for one liked the tapping button for running faster for several reasons. First, I find holding down a button boring. Second, I find tapping the button is one more thing to string along or remember, which adds one step more of skill. Third, It also makes you slow down a bit to pull off most combo moves, since you will move your thumb for another move button, which is realistic. My main grip with Madden is everything just feels like it runs at a constant speed. We need some variety. Its almost like it runs on a track, which for me gets stale.

[jp7588]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I don't understand the sim argument either. Is pressing "Y" to catch the ball "sim"? Is moving the right stick to juke "SIM"? I don't see how a temporary period of button mashing intended to simulate a struggle for the ball is any less "sim" than anything else we do during a game of Madden.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I dont got a problem with having to press button's repeatedly but only when done right. Example of a PERFECT button pressing scheme is NFL2k5 by pressing the button rapidly for acceleration and speed..to me, THIS IS PERFECT for running in football videogames..hopefully Ian and company will consider putting this in M11 as an "option".

Now on a good example of where it just dont feel right is in the fumble pile ups..having to jump to all 4 buttons is way too tedious...it would of been better to keep the button pressing to just one button the entire time..i could deal with that but switching buttons quicky is too "dance dance revolution-ish" if you know what i mean.

Moe

Co-sign. I think Madden would benefit from the button mashing running because imo that's the best way I've seen to break a tackle. Actually feels like you're fighting to get free. The way it is now is ok, but it can have way too many unrealistic results because the window is too wide for you to alter the outcome of the situation.

Prime example is when Apex was complaining about 1 of the trailers where the defender had the ball carrier almost down and he rose up to break the tackle. The system could work, but the window is too wide for you to effect the outcome of the tackle animation.

[kehlis]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I don't view button mashing as not being "sim."

I just don't personally like how it is implemented in Fight for the Fumble. I think it's great they included an option to appease everyone.

But again, I don't view as not being sim, I guess to me it depends on how it is used.

I didn't play 2k5 but I don't think I would have had a problem with the sprinting being a tap x kind of thing.

Heck, I still rapidly tap it when playing the show out of habit from baseball games way back when.

[parrothead]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

We all got tired of button mashing playing NES Playaction Football. Man that was some mashing, you pretty much had to mash just to run. But, I digress. Where do ratings like strength and size factor into the F4F? It would be cool if it was like press square, triangle, circle, like a pattern you had to follow to get the fumble.

[MoneyGames]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I think if EA continues to give us options, such as a controller setting that allows us the tapping running of 2k5, it will result in a much happier group of buyers. If they give us all the features of 2k5, then both madden users and 2k users can be happy with the controls they like in the same game and customize it as they wish. This would go along way with "next generation gaming".

I for one liked the tapping button for running faster for several reasons. First, I find holding down a button boring. Second, I find tapping the button is one more thing to string along or remember, which adds one step more of skill. Third, It also makes you slow down a bit to pull off most combo moves, since you will move your thumb for another move button, which is realistic. My main grip with Madden is everything just feels like it runs at a constant speed. We need some variety. Its almost like it runs on a track, which for me gets stale.

I like those points, it would add to the skill factor in the game to really separate the different levels of madden players. if they could implement something like this, I think it would really give you an accomplished sense of feeling while playing the game. after a long 65 yard TD run youd feel like you really had control of the run the whole way

[Only1LT]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I don't mind the button mashing per se, I just hate how it is implemented. It should either be one button to mash, or it should be a QTE. It seems like Tiburon tried to do both at the same time and it just doesn't work.

Having said that, I still would not be crazy about it because it has the potential to unrealistically skew turnover numbers, if not done correctly, which it isn't. It goes to the mini game too often in my play time, regardless of the circumstances leading up to the fumble. That being the case, whether I am the one losing F4F all the time, or winning all the time, I would not like it. Better, in my opinion, that the game take location of the ball, players, bounce, hand ratings, speed players are running, and timing of the dive, if you do decide to dive on a live ball, and determine if you get the fumble or not. If two players from opposing teams get there at the sme time, and you want to do a mini game that is either ONE button to mash or a QTE, then that's fine, but not a mini game on fumbles when you see that a player has recovered and then people pile on anyway. I don't want it where any one player, even me, gets every fumble, every game, because of a mini game. There has to be something said for where your players are when a fumble happens, and how quickly you can change to the nearest player and pounce on it or pick it up too.

As far as mashing buttons to sprint. I am a HUGE fan of the 2K games. I have owned every Madden, and only two 2K games, but I would have to say that I like the gameplay of the 2K games better. Having said that, after playing the current gen Madden's with the new controller layout, I would have to say that it is hard to play a 2K game and not wish that it was in it. Tapping to run is definitely fun and makes total sense, but it causes the same issue that I have with the old Madden layout. Using the trigger to Sprint frees up your hands to hit other face buttons and use the Right Stick as well.

Although I am cool with the button tap for Sprint, I think that the placement of the Sprint as a trigger (feels more natural to me as I am a big FPS gamer) just feels more intuitive to me and if I had to choose between the two, tapping X (tapping trigger would probably not work well, which is why I am saying either or) or having it at trigger, I will have to go with holding trigger to Sprint.

[d3athb4dishonor]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I don't know where I stand with this. I've had a few fight for the fumble mini games and lost every single one of them. That's whats going to annoy me about it, because I'm not the button mashing champion of the world I get a turnover.

We'll see how it works for online play.

[sois]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

Breaking tackles a la TSB was the funnest button mashing football concept ever.

[BezO]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

I mean people complain about Fight for the Fumble because of the button mashing. I don't see what else EA could have done though. Button mashing is as violent as you can get with a controller and the fumble pile-ups are the most violent things in football and thats a fact. They kind of go hand in hand if you ask me.

Fighting for a fumble is one of the few things I feel do button mashing justice.

Then people get angry and say its not "sim" when people want the option to button tap for sprint. If you ask me smashing A to sprint is a lot more realistic than holding a button. By holding the button your player will always go the same speed. By button smashing you can control your speed from a steady jog to a faster jog that allows you to cut, or you can go out and tap it fast and sprint. You basically control the ball carriers feet. The faster you tap, the faster he starts to move his legs.

I don't like mashing to sprint. I'd prefer analog running to handle that(no sprint button).

Walking, jogging, running & sprinting are different forms of the same thing. We don't mash for the 1st 3. Why mash to sprint?

But it's just a preference. I don't feel it's un-sim. But my definition of sim is much different than many folks here.

I also notice people don't truly understand the concept behind button sprinting. They seem to think that it allows you to go past your max speed when in reality thats not true at all. Once you hit the "sprint" stage your runner runs to his 93 speed or whatever his rating may be. It doesn't allow Haynesworth to outrun McNabb for a pick 6 because I have a faster thumb.

In this particular case, sprinting, I don't want thumb speed to be a determining factor.

The last thing I want to talk about is breaking or branching out of tackles with button mashing. People also seem to think this is fake or unsim. When you have to think about it though. Its not going to allow you to break out of someone who has a high 95 tackle rating. It gives you a fighting chance and allows you to pick up those extra yards. I also look at this as if you are controlling the runners feet once again. The faster you tap the button the faster and harder he keeps his feet moving so he can escape the tackle or at least gain those few yards needed for the first down.

I'm cool with mashing for this too.

But I don't understand what button mashing has to do with simulation. NOTHING about controling players with a controler is sim. Mashing to sprint is just as un-sim as pushing an analog stick or holding a trigger.

[Only1LT]

Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

Mashing to break out of a tackle, and consequently on D, mash to keep the offensive player from breaking out, was always fun. It was fun on 2K. It was fun on Game Day. It was fun on Madden. I don't know why they took it out.