Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

[N51_rob]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

The draft is always a risk, even the "Safe" players don't always turn out.

Are we talking real life or Madden? I've never seen a bust in Madden nor a true "diamond in the rough".

In Madden 15 you would see it all the time, the guys that took time to scout (no matter how tedious it was) they would draft guys who while they had a 5th round grade they were 80 OVR rookies who would start and play well from day 1. Similarly guys that people scouted despite having 1 round grades that lasted until round 5, 6 or 7 were guys that would be in the lower 60s and not make it through preseason let alone one year in the league.

In madden 25 and before, there were draft guides that would outline the SS Dev and Slow Dev guys at each position in every one of the twnty five possible draft classes.

So I ask are you talking IRL or Madden?

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

Just in the spirit of debate but doesn't that kind of eliminate the purpose or need, I should say, of the actual in-game projections? If a player grades out as a first round pick, why would he ever be projected to go in the fifth round?



I was just thinking about something like this. I think one problem with the draft is that Madden's idea of a sleeper always seems to be a very high rated player with Superstar development. Same goes for a bust, it's always a guy with a high projection but low rating and development. I think there needs to be a greater array and mixture of ratings vs. development distribution. And what I mean by that is:

• High projected guys with lower overalls but great DEV
• Low projected players with low overalls but great DEV
• Low projected players with great OVR but bad DEV
• High projected players with high overalls but poor DEV

And so on. It seems like more often than not, the guys with the high overalls are the ones that develop the best. And I've seen it mentioned in here before about how people don't like the fact that all the attributes are shown as soon as a player is drafted because you basically know what you've got and whether or not to give up on a player immediately. And I think the problem with that is that there isn't a good variance of players in terms of overalls and potential.

I'm hoping in some years some positions have no players who grade out as a true value 1st round pick, but they are projected as a first rounder because they are the best of a poor crop, and thus are likely to be taken in the first round anyway.

I agree 100% about the need for more variation in the projection/OV/development mix of players.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I like what ur saying. And about knowing a rookie's value immediately: should you see his attributes before the season or even the end of the season? I wish the risk of a draft pick carried through final cuts in some way.

I'm kind of torn on that. On one hand, I really like the idea of seeing what you drafted immediately because I feel like it adds to the draft presentation but I understand why people wouldn't like it simply because it's pretty easy to gage what a player is just on his overall. And that's what I was kind of getting at. If you shake things up and make it so that a 65 first round pick could still turn into a superstar based on his potential (which would absolutely have to be hidden) or a player rated 80 overall could have low or medium potential and never really become more or less than that 80, then I don't see any problem with seeing his attributes because you're still not sure of what you're getting.

But with that being said, I did like the way I think it was M11 or M12 did it where you didn't know any of their ratings until the season actually started and through preseason all you got was progressively more letter grades on their attributes. It was still flawed in a sense but it added a little bit to preseason as well as undrafted free agents and such.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I'm hoping in some years some positions have no players who grade out as a true value 1st round pick, but they are projected as a first rounder because they are the best of a poor crop, and thus are likely to be taken in the first round anyway.

I agree 100% about the need for more variation in the projection/OV/development mix of players.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind even having a "draft depth" grade for each draft class that tells you overall how strong a draft is and then on top of that have it for each postion as well. Maybe the QB class is 'Very Weak' while the TE class is 'Once In A Decade' and the RB is just 'Strong' or 'Average' just to give some additional insight on the overall value at each position going into the draft.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I'm kind of torn on that. On one hand, I really like the idea of seeing what you drafted immediately because I feel like it adds to the draft presentation but I understand why people wouldn't like it simply because it's pretty easy to gage what a player is just on his overall. And that's what I was kind of getting at. If you shake things up and make it so that a 65 first round pick could still turn into a superstar based on his potential (which would absolutely have to be hidden) or a player rated 80 overall could have low or medium potential and never really become more or less than that 80, then I don't see any problem with seeing his attributes because you're still not sure of what you're getting.

But with that being said, I did like the way I think it was M11 or M12 did it where you didn't know any of their ratings until the season actually started and through preseason all you got was progressively more letter grades on their attributes. It was still flawed in a sense but it added a little bit to preseason as well as undrafted free agents and such.

I agree with all of this especially slowly unveiling true ratings during the preseason and Id even extend it to the first couple games of the regular season. When the Raiders took Jamarcus they didn't immediatly know he was a bust and start planning for a new qb, likewise the Pats didn't draft Brady and say let's start this guy immediately.

[charter04]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

Just in the spirit of debate but doesn't that kind of eliminate the purpose or need, I should say, of the actual in-game projections? If a player grades out as a first round pick, why would he ever be projected to go in the fifth round?







I was just thinking about something like this. I think one problem with the draft is that Madden's idea of a sleeper always seems to be a very high rated player with Superstar development. Same goes for a bust, it's always a guy with a high projection but low rating and development. I think there needs to be a greater array and mixture of ratings vs. development distribution. And what I mean by that is:

• High projected guys with lower overalls but great DEV
  
• Low projected players with low overalls but great DEV
  
• Low projected players with great OVR but bad DEV
  
• High projected players with high overalls but poor DEV
  

And so on. It seems like more often than not, the guys with the high overalls are the ones that develop the best. And I've seen it mentioned in here before about how people don't like the fact that all the attributes are shown as soon as a player is drafted because you basically know what you've got and whether or not to give up on a player immediately. And I think the problem with that is that there isn't a good variance of players in terms of overalls and potential.

It needs to happen more often but, I have a player on my CFM team that was a later round projection that came in rated 67 but, has Super Star development.

So they do have some of those in M15


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mestevo]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I agree with all of this especially slowly unveiling true ratings during the preseason and Id even extend it to the first couple games of the regular season. When the Raiders took Jamarcus they didn't immediatly know he was a bust and start planning for a new qb, likewise the Pats didn't draft Brady and say let's start this guy immediately.

I'd rather see that done different, a drag on XP earned due to lack of focus, opportunities to correct negative traits with the right coaching and supporting cast, etc. The inability to cover all the potential negatives with the right combination of coaching traits making you pick and choose your challenges.

Simply hiding stuff doesn't do much for me, I want mechanics behind it.

Problem with that though is it quickly hits a line the NFL probably doesn't want to cross in video games... can see the roster updates now 'xyz player updated to be more likely to gain the Distraction trait after a bad game, lowered work ethic of abc'.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

My issue with any of the aforementioned stuff is it's still more of the same surface alters vs core fixes. I don't think any can argue putting any and all actual ratings under the hood and hidden, for all players is the most realistic. I think they must start from that premise in order to build whatever systems from there. I'm all for coaching staffs and adding true scouts, which provide their unique perception on players, which Users can consider but please do away with any exact actual ratings.

Nothing in-game should be definitively revealing to the User what players are bust, gems, superstars, etc, one persons trash is another's treasure. All that said, I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't agree, I just would love the option to play that way, it would really add that personal element to every User controlled team, not to mention CPU teams as well, since they would be filling rosters based on things other than actual ratings as well.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I agree with all of this especially slowly unveiling true ratings during the preseason and Id even extend it to the first couple games of the regular season. When the Raiders took Jamarcus they didn't immediatly know he was a bust and start planning for a new qb, likewise the Pats didn't draft Brady and say let's start this guy immediately.

Exactly. You could even just go with vague letter grades just so you have some kind of knowledge of a player. And I'd honestly be okay with just using vague letter grades for all player attributes but that's a whole other discussion.

And with your JaMarcus/Brady example I think that's a good one. Let's just say for the sake of argument they both came in at a 65 overall. Russell was projected high, Brady wasn't. The major difference being development (and coaching but, again, a whole other discussion). But before I get into a huge long post about the intricacies of the system and how it could work, that's the variance that is needed. A counter-point could be someone like Alex Smith. For the sake of the argument, let's just say he came in as a 65 overall as well. Difference being maybe his DEV or POT was 'Good' as opposed to Russell's 'Bad'. So while you have two guys, both taken and projected in virtually the same spot that have the same overall, you get two wildly different outcomes. One is a bonafide bust while the other actually turned into a solid starter. If things like that had a greater possibility of taking place then I think it wouldn't cause such a knee-jerk reaction to just dump a guy that you take high with a lower overall.

It needs to happen more often but, I have a player on my CFM team that was a later round projection that came in rated 67 but, has Super Star development.

So they do have some of those in M15

That's good to know and I think there are definitely more players like that then there are the other way around. I wouldn't mind seeing a lot more guys that maybe come into the league with maybe a bit higher than average overall but are more "flash in the pan" type guys that maintain that overall for a couple years and then just fizzle out.

[Madwolf]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

Like everything there is an easy way to do it. Some choose that then complain it's too easy. Other don't. I managed to never use this method and still turned over my defense in just 3 drafts.

People also loved the TE Corner or Deep out on 3rd and long. We'll see if that's fixed this week.

To each their own.

True, I hope they've got those routes guard able now. The TE corner has been broken for as far back as I can remember now.

[cuttingteeth]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I wish I could spearhead (if I were the boss programmer) a fix to all of this very simply.

1. Every draft class is created online via a website. I suggest the teambuilder site as a template for how simple it can be used to create players, name them and download them for my specific, personal use and to my heart's content. It's not rocket science, and worse, it's old technology at this point...so, I'd not allow any excuses from my team under me saying it can't be done. Anyway, best of all, it's still programming work, people would need to stay on long term to service and monitor the site (or at least, I'd push for that).

2. Even better, the ratings and names I create on the online site for those players...STAY THE SAME...imagine that. So....very much like in real life (and thus we save Madden disc/game space by not needing a combine programming at all) we will know from the real combine and/or how we have set up our draft class (ratings) to have an actual draftboard that we can trust. To not only have one on paper that we go by, the only programmed thing in the Madden game would be adding a draftboard tracker to the draft program. We will have taken away useless programming for something that serves more of a purpose being both a want and a need.

3. The safeguard you put into place would be the same as for teambuilder but also more strict. Allow only whatever version of Madden to download draft classes free for one "NFL calendar" year. After that year, either force the upgrade to the new game, or (and I'd be cool with this) force basically a DLC cost (maybe $30) for each next year of usage. This alleviates worry within EA per losing sales profits, and I want to be clear that I have never wanted them to tank as a company. I understand business and how it truly is about money...people with families needing jobs and such.

This would work.

[brza37]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I like what ur saying. And about knowing a rookie's value immediately: should you see his attributes before the season or even the end of the season? I wish the risk of a draft pick carried through final cuts in some way.

A few years ago they only revealed the rookie ratings a couple ratings at a time per week during the preseason. So you wouldn't know a rookie's true ratings until final cuts. It actually made the preseason worth while. I'd much rather have the option for that instead of this instant reveal.

With the instant reveal if you somehow draft a bust at a position of need in the 1st round, which seems highly unlikely with how simplified scouting is, you can just double down and draft another guy from the same position with your next pick. There are also a handful of UDFAs available after the draft with crazy high ratings that everyone pounces on because they can see the ratings right away. These guys are usually easily built up into Stars within a season or two. If the ratings weren't revealed immediately it would be much more difficult to find those diamonds in the rough.

I know some people like getting this information right away and hated the old format. Thats fine. But it again brings me to my point that I seem to be making in a bunch of different threads: we need more customization. Instead of forcing everyone to play the game the same way and then scrapping/re-building features every year because a portion of the customer-base didn't like the change, why not allow for customization? For example have an option that Commissioners can set:
Reveal Rookie Info: During Draft / After Draft / Gradually during Pre-Season

[fringeelement]

I haven't even finished reading the article yet so far there's ben nothing to negate the apprehension I had when EA first released the info on CFM. The level of my frustration and disappointment is off the charts and I think I just need to give up on this game. Off the bat, there are two things that stick out to me as terrible design choices by the development team. First, forcing us to scout every week or we loose our points. So now when I'm in a hurry and just want to play a game to get to the next week, I'll be punished by losing scouting points. Sometimes I feel like scouting, sometimes I don't. Why am I now being forced to do it on EA's terms, particularly in a single player CFM??? The other thing that I believe was a bad idea, and I mentioned it in my original impressions, is showing a rookies ratings as soon as you draft him. Coaches and GMs don't really now what they got in a draft until they see their picks on the practice field and this has been emulated reasonably well in the past by not reveling ratings until after the draft. The new mechanic just overly simplifies drafting and, in my opinion will make it too easy. The other mentions the example of trying to find a speed back in '15 only to find out in the pre-season that the player he picked was only an 89. Well, that's how it works in real like. Do you think the Chargers knew when they drafted Ryan Leaf that he was only a 65 OVR QB? No. If they did, they would have just drafted another QB in the second round, which is exactly what this years game will allow us to do. It is an incredibly flawed design choice and essentially a game killer for any self-respecting franchise player who is looking for anything even moderately resembling a "sim" experience.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

Well my hype for the game has risen a bit now
The D additions , penalties etc.. are a welcome news.

The drafting I'll have to see for myself and go from there.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions Part 2 - Scouting and Drafting (MyMaddenPad)

I'm hoping that a fair amount of the top rated draft picks have really low penalty ratings. Great athletes, with solid skill sets, but totally undisciplined. Anything that adds some uncertainty and trepidation to the process is good.