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Mattanite · 06-13-2023, 07:02 AM

Has Madden Franchise returned to a "Good" state?

I see a lot of comments here and on Reddit lamenting that Madden 24 will be another wasted year, the superman throw is enough cheese to avoid buying and all EA have to do is return the game to the old gen Madden05-08 era and everything will be fine. What defined benchmark does Madden 24 have to achieve before it would be considered good for Franchise again? My bet would be that most players can't define what "Good" is, let alone "Great", so let's have a realistic discussion on where Madden is without the hyperbole.

Credentials:
I don't want folks to consider this a Madden fluff piece, or that I'm a shill. Those who've been around long enough know that I tear apart the Franchise systems, find bugs and workarounds and write guides to help everyone navigate a game mode that could be considered advanced to the average user. I've had discussions on Franchise systems with Madden developers, they know about the mine and F17's Scouting Tool, had a look at our OL Dev Award Generator, Front Office has helped discussions on sliders and XP, had our feedback taken on board when they implemented new scouting. My point is that I know the game pretty well, as much as the heavy users around here and hopefully this qualifies me to write a piece worth reading.

The Franchise Benchmarks

Average to Poor* - I think the Madden 13 through 23 could be considered poor building to above average overall due to the step back that Madden 13 took and the rebuild of old features into the game slowly for 10 years. There were bad bugs and boring aspects to each game (Madden 19 real player motion messing game speed up, Madden schemes not changing with coach up from 13 to 18, no advanced depth charts until the last few years etc, morale is redundant for winning teams).
Good - Madden 12 was considered the last good Madden by SOFTDRINKTV, if you haven't seen it, I would recommend watching. If this is the case then 08 to 12 on 360/PS3 would all fit this bracket as there weren't tremendous amounts of change in this time (12 in particular hid potential during scouting but you could still sort by it, brought back player roles one time, was the last game on the potential system).
Great - A lot argue that 2k5 era and Madden 05 to 08 on Xbox/PS2 were the gold standard of football games and this was when Madden was last "Great". Again, SOFTDRINKTV had a video on the last great Madden (08 on old gen) which is worth a watch and his missing features video focusses a lot of content that was removed during the move from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360. (These games had training camp, working morale system, wide selection of player roles).

*This is about Franchise systems so I'll not comment on gameplay unless it's part of the sim RPG experience of being a GM and I'm trying to ignore the horrendous recent bugs.

I personally group certain games into eras depending on engine and features:

Old Gen - PS2, OG Xbox and PC era with the deeper franchise features (Madden 05-08),
Next Gen - PS3, Xbox360 where the games transitioned to better graphics but lost a few franchise features but still maintained some depth (Madden 08-11, Madden 12 included but it had a lot of standalone features).
Connected Franchise / Ignite - The Great Loss of franchise features but build up of the physics engine and introduction of online leagues (Madden 13-17),
Connected Franchise / Frostbite - Lots of visual improvements but little franchise improvements, added abilities (Madden 18-21),
Recent or Modern Era - Restoration of a lot of Next Gen features with new scouting and staffing (Madden 22 & 23... Maybe 24).

As part of the discussion I will focus on the following topics:

Team Building
Player Development
Staffing
Morale
Injury
Depth Chart
Training
Scenarios
Scouting
Conclusion

1. Team Building
I would argue that the recent era of Madden on the Team Schemes system has always worked okay. The recent move to a set list of fixed team schemes was a decent attempt at adding flavours to all 32 teams and add some difficulty in being a GM (do you try to scheme match all players or take non matches but best player available etc). Prior to fixed Team Schemes players were free to pick a scheme but then change the archetype at each individual position which would change the OVR of players at that position. The use of CPU coaches using archetypes to target players was a neat patch after losing the varied OVR view by player but it meant that CPU was too rigid in team building ( I want a Speed ROLB, not a LOLB).

Having sim stats tied to playbooks instead of a combination of Team Scheme and Player OVR is a crime. Having a set of playbooks mismatching the Team Schemes for generated coaches is also a bad design (hint: in offline, you can create a new user for that gen coach and change the scheme or playbook so that they match and then retire. Online you need a friend to log in to do it).

In previous good/great Maddens the Team Scheme mainly consisted of run or pass weighting, pass rush or run stop weighting etc. This was great for giving coaches more personality to how teams played but fell short in terms of setting out schemes properly (e.g. Madden 12 and earlier does a terrible job at defining player archetypes and getting teams to recognise the difference between a 43 and 34 defense).

The player positions have never changed and always been poor, they've always been rigid ROLB or LOLB, RG or LG. It affects how draft players pool (but at least Scouting is now more broad), how Free Agency bids, how CPU views contracts and team development (will resign a decent LT despite having two good RT). No Madden can be argued better.

Verdict - Madden is now average but in a different way due to how Team Schemes are implemented, but previous Maddens have never been good or great in this regard. A good Madden would implement both the current and previous aspects of Team Schemes and a great madden would move to modern Player Positions.

Future Improvements

A return to Player OVR by archetype would mean that sim stats dynamically adjust which is far more sim (e.g. OLB Von Miller playing in Tampa2 scheme would mean he's expected to play coverage OLB and his stats should reflect that he's in the 80s for coverage archetype and a mismatched system player, Teams with a 3-4 scheme would view him as a pass rusher and offer him more in Free Agency and then his OVR and team scheme would provide sim stats heavier weighted in Sacks, TFL etc).
Adding back the weighting sliders to coach schemes and having sim stats further adjust to this would add to a better sim experience.
An expanded list of Team Schemes could add more variation over time to CPU run teams, which would need to coincide with expanded playbooks.
Change player positions to better fit the modern NFL. By pooling players into modern positions like OT, OL, DL, Pass Rusher etc and having a combination of "preferred position" and Team Scheme vs dynamic Player OVR, CPU will better manage drafting, free agency and contracts and also pump more personality into team building.

2. Player Development
Previous eras of Madden had the potential system, in the older Maddens (old gen) it was hidden apart from during scouting, in the next gen (09-12) versions it was presented as a single grade which offered a wide fog of war of 10ovr. Since Madden 13 it has been the XP system, but this moved from free spending to Skill Points in Madden 19.

In the old and next gen Maddens on the potential system, even physical attributes would get up to +6 boosts after a good year if under your Potential cap which meant rapid inflation of physical attributes, it was a bad system. In 13-18 there was a 4 tier dev system (slow, normal, star, superstar) but most players were normal which ruined the OVR distribution curve and you could buy increases in Dev level for high amounts of XP (not a great system) but the CPU never waited long enough to buy them (unless you set XP to spend per season). The move to skill points and a 4-tier dev system (normal, star, superstar, X-factor) meant much needed parity of a randomised player development system (especially in online leagues) and much better OVR distribution curves (normal is now the equivalent of slow but with better PR).

Player roles were in old gen, returned once in next gen (Madden 12) and then reintroduced a 3rd time in Madden 23. Player roles are huge in the sim experience of Franchise! They shape the personalities of a team in a vast way and their absence marked the dullest era of Madden (13-22). It affects how CPU team builds, order depth charts and target free agents and even how humans team build (we all want those veteran backup Mentors). Madden 23 brought them back which can only be a good thing (even if a little buggy at times). The combination of player roles and player abilities marks the move into Great territory for me.

Player traits are also a great way to expand the personalities of the players around the league as they govern on and off field behaviours. Old gen didn't do this in a good way (relying more on player roles and weapons) and Madden 12 expanded on traits in a great way including the hot/cold streak and dynamic traits in game as well as the 5star consistency rating upgrading long term (veterans were worth it). Current Maddens have player traits and they work fine but more could be done with them (like dynamic in game, or a way to upgrade them long term).

While player traits govern what players are doing, player attributes govern how well they do it and the recent Maddens have excelled at this! Go back to Madden 08 and see how a QB is defined by only AWR, THP and THA with the only other flavour being are they built like a Scrambler or not... Madden 12 expanded this by adding to Short, Mid and Deep accuracies but the recent modern Maddens now have break sack, throw on run, throw under pressure etc. Go back and Route Running isn't a thing, now you have short, medium and deep. Pass rush was one attribute, now you have finesse and power. Blocking the same. Coverage the same. Next gen Madden did one thing better than recent Maddens and that was the Phys, Int, Dur, Size and Production attributes which affected OVR by scheme. A veteran would have higher OVR with the same attributes over a rookie due to Production. A Russel Wilson build would be rated lower due to Size. Weight for OL/DL mattered on paper even if not as much in game.

Verdict - recent Maddens are the best they've ever been for Player Development so I would say they are Great but to move into Glorious territory they could bring back the combined attributes.

Future Improvements

Bring back combined attributes
Keep adding attributes - long snapping is a much needed addition, Kick accuracy short and long.
Expand traits - make them dynamic again and veterans can train to improve them.
Make height and weight matter more - height should affect length for OL/DL interactions. Weight should determine if a player can be moved along with Strength.
Expand player roles - add the likes of Role Players
Disconnect Abilities from the Dev system - Make it so that a normal dev power HB can earn a trucking ability.
Move to a 5 tier dev system - add slow back to dev traits with serious XP penalties but reserve it for generated players only or dynamic after franchise start, and make it so only players with high expectations can progress there (drafted first 3 rounds, overpaid Free Agent etc).

3. Staffing
Old gen and next gen Maddens had real staffing for HC, OC, DC and ST and they would have attributes like the players, which would also develop over time. If you wanted to fire Brad Childress from the Vikings and replace him with OC Leslie Frazier, you could. If you wanted to hire a retired HOF level player as a coach and build them up like Randy Moss to OC, then HC, you could. You had companies that either provided injury resistance or player development. The HC, OC, DC and ST all provided player bonuses according to their scheme such as OLB +3 pass rush but sometimes had a penalty like OLB -3 ZCV too.

Madden 13 moved to HC only with ability to purchase packages affecting more GM roles than HC (develop players, target FA better, more scout points, affect resign or retirement). The other staff members affected what position you got your discount during scouting and the return from injury bonus/penalty (which didn't always work anyway). If you were in coach mode instead of owner mode then you couldn't even change the second two staff positions anyway (despite the Scouting discount still being in effect). Madden 13 to 22 was the low in staffing.

Madden 23 added this function back somewhat the coaching ability tree affecting on field performance via the OC and DC, with the HC affecting staff and player development and the GM style abilities being assigned to Player Personnel. This will be further expanded with the addition of a 3rd tree and the early promise of tree's being able to stick. The OC/DC promotion to HC system didn't work and there were many crippling to annoying bugs, if they have this fixed then people will be more receptive to the changes now. The staff system is very poorly gamed though, they provide no incentive to fire a staff member and there is no regression. You accumulate staff points forever until you have a maxed out Staff and then grow bored. There's no risk, no rebuild or no opportunity.

Verdict - Madden 23 had almost returned to good but fell short due to bugs and not working as advertised, Madden 24 could be good. No Madden has ever been great on staffing...To be great (and the only time I'll compare to 2k) they need to overhaul into a system similar to that of NBA 2k22.

Future Improvements

Expand Staffing positions - Add in a OL, DL, Edge, DB, WR/TE, QB coach, have them affect attribute bonuses, training outcomes and player development.
Add Staffing Attributes - Add in whether the coach is technical, good at motivating, a whisperer style. If you want to find a QB coach to work with a rookie with great player development and film study ability that would go a long way to
Add more Staffing ability trees and make them carry over between positions - if your OC becomes the HC they should have OL ability trees still.
Add risk to the staffing system - make it so that Player Morale is affected magnitudes more to the downside if a maxed out staff starts losing. A great staff shouldn't be losing and may have grown stale or the HC is a mismatch to Team State (e.g. Andy Reid and the post McNabb Eagles, went to the Chiefs and won a SB) and only by firing staff can you reset the Morale penalty.
Add a scheme/playbook lock option - another option to gamify the staff system, your newly drafted scrambler QB might require a better Scheme or Playbook but your OC is running Vertical Power... time to get a new OC with Ravens playbook.

4. Morale
Old gen Maddens/2k5 had a good morale systems impacted in multiple ways beyond just the win/loss record and could even lead to holdouts. The shift to next gen from 08/09 pretty much got rid of this (even though the Morale bar remained) and then Madden 13 era pretty much had nothing so it makes a very quick section to discuss.

Recent Maddens added back morale in the form of attribute bonuses and penalties that accumulated over a single season and could be reset for teams under 50 to rid them of the penalty. This system quickly death spirals a losing team into something god awful (and a huge hinderance in online leagues) as it's based on win-loss, inversely, a winning team goes on to steam roll opponents as they've maxed morale. The addition of Scenarios that swing morale based on answers and objectives was much needed and helps rebalance morale away from just win/loss.

Verdict - Madden 23 and the expectation for Madden 24 is Good in terms of morale when compared to 08-12 era, and much better than the Madden 13 era. To be great more needs to be added such as personality based holdouts, staffing impacts, stability of a franchise (such as the Patriots losing Tom Brady, or how Peyton Manning held an entire franchise together for decades).

Future Improvements

Add more morale based scenarios - especially in off season, if you made your team OVR jump up then you go into preseason feeling better than a team in decline that fell apart in off season. A key win should swing a franchise direction more. Players should hold out, especially if out performing contracts.
Add positional chemistry - the longer a WR is with a QB should increase chemistry for both and make them more consistent, adding a new WR (even if higher OVR) should come with a disadvantage while you build. Adding OL or DL group chemistry should factor into deciding if you resign an average C or G, just to maintain the chemistry.

5. Injury
Another quick one as Madden has had a pretty consistent injury system for decades. In previous and next gen Maddens the IR didn't even free up a roster spot, so this was added in the current era. Recent Maddens even added the return from IR function! Then add in progressive fatigue impacting over the course of a season, you have the most in depth injury system in Madden ever!

A player gets injured via tackle or impact block (after this was re-added from the Madden 13 era). The rate of injury is too different at the moment between tackle vs impact so less coaches carry depth at HB so this is a poor aspect of current franchises.

Verdict - Madden 23 and going into 24 is in a better place than historic Maddens so this is easy to say it's actually good. To be great there needs to be better management around injuries, lingering/historic injuries and a breakdown of body parts. Madden 24 adds new sliders and we'll wait to see the impact but this is "a step in the right direction" to use a tired cliché.

Future Improvements

Add injury rating by body part - self explanatory.
Add lingering injuries - make it so players can keep playing but with a slight penalty rather than the Big Decision style big penalty or better XP choice you have now.
Add historically big injuries - so you can see that 4 seasons ago this player tore their right ACL and that's why their right knee has such as low rating.
Add medical staff to better manage injuries/fatigue - can provide stamina bonuses if you hire more of a trainer, or focus on prevention at expense of training, or recovery at expense of prevention etc.

6. Depth Chart
This one is an easy win for recent Maddens. Go back to old gen Maddens and experience the frustration of trying to get your 3rd string speed HB to come in for a clear passing situation. Or your OLB to adjust into Pass Rushers for running the Nickel. Recent Maddens now have on the fly adjustable audibles, you can flick options for SpellHB, formation subs, specific depth chart positions such as RushDE, RushDT, slotCB, SlotWR, PowerHB, RecHB etc. Recent Maddens added a Practice Squad and then expanded the Practice Squad rules. Recent Maddens have a depth chart view where you can click the tiles or even adjust them. It shows the dev of all players and links quickly to the abilities.

Verdict - Old Maddens did depth charts poorly to average and recent Maddens are far far ahead in terms of team management pre and mid game. There's minor tweaks that can be done but it's in a great place already.

Future Improvements

Add expanded depth chart tiles - add the ability to manage special teams formations pre game so I know my starting G isn't out there to get injured and can pick better blockers/gunner on returns.
Add a Long Snapper - pretty please!
Add flip positions - allow me to choose high safety vs box safety so if a formation flips I know who I want as sweeper. Or left vs right WR on the outside.

7. Training
Old Gen Madden had mini games akin to training camp where attributes could be boosted if you did well, this vanished in the move to next gen and any form of training (beyond a practice mode) wouldn't reappear until the XP system was introduced in Madden 13. In the XP era, you trained and gained more XP (affected by Coach perks, scheme matches, archetype matches and dev) and your players got better. The bronze, silver, gold system affected the XP awarded to positional groups but the problem was CPU only got bronze (later Maddens changed to random to help CPU XP) so your team could repeat until gold and then accelerate player development passed the CPU. It had a minor impact on gameplay and had no downsides.

Madden 12 did a very good job of hiding attributes of rookies if you hadn't scouted them until cut weeks (and you still might face some uncertainty), so practice or preseason games was essential to help judge how a rookie played.

Madden 23 introduced a training system that had options for heavy or light (which had injury risk implications) and then forced to pick a strategy for the next game which would offer a bonus and a penalty to much broader gameplay aspects, as well as providing temporary attribute bonuses by the strategy picked, and awarding XP. Focus players has been a free/easy way to boost XP for 3 selected players for a while and Madden 23 added staff abilities to unlock more slots improving the variability between teams (focus more on development or gameplay etc).

Madden 24 plans to re-add the mini games which is the offseason training camp and has a similar setup to old gen (awards skill points and snaps for hidden dev) and it's a welcome addition.

[/b]Verdict - The combination of additions in Madden 23 and planned for Madden 24 has not only returned Madden to where it was in the old gen era but has gone beyond this, in which case you would declare this as great but still benefitting from improvement.[/b]

Future Improvements

Add a broad offseason training scenario - Like with the weekly training, a coach should be able to assess his team in offseason and pick focus groups which result in bigger breakout XP rewards, dev increases but result in season ending injuries.
Add rookie minicamp - Having a fog of war for all rookies (devs and attributes) until enough snaps have been played (progressive unlock of attributes for less scouted) would be very fun experience, especially if you have a dedicated rookie mini camp to judge "feel".
Make star players exempt - Redshirt QBs, or have lighter training loads for Xno of specific franchise players (like how Adrian Peterson was always rested up to regular season as he was always in shape).

8. Scenarios
There's a common complaint amongst the older people that Madden now feels like a series of Play Now games. I think this was always the case as there has never been a Madden that had a season long or multi season narrative. I think we make the narratives in our head (this is a rebuild year, there's a competition between my veteran WR and the shiny new fast rookie I want to play). Madden 17 added Big Decisions but it just highlighting decisions you already made (resigns) or offered an XP bonus for not returning early from injury (not many picked the starter if it was -20 speed). This changed with recent Maddens as more elaborate scenarios were added, now you have breakouts, frustrated players, mentor choices, multi game threads (building up to harder goals), key games, trap games, rest starters, bye week decision, short week decision and more. This direction has been great at improving both the solo experience and online leagues, adds risk and variability, and provides new narratives where previously it was your imagination. Madden 23 changes to staffing added game targets for staff points which allow you to define how you will approach a game and makes you asses your team strengths or opponents weaknesses to get the most points, again, driving narrative between games.

Verdict - Scenarios are all about driving narrative and variability (surprise), and in this regard have no gotten into the Good territory and didn't really feature in old Maddens. To get to Great I think Scenarios need to drive a deeper longer narrative with Team State and Offseason like the real NFL. Developing deeper Scenarios also helps develop the Team Building aspect of Franchise at the same time.

Future Improvements

Add a Team State function - Build multi season narratives by offering scenarios based on team state (rebuilding, developing, contending, reloading, declining) such as "start a rookie" scenario for rebuilds or "trade for an 80+ player" for reloads.
Add more offseason scenarios - a lot of narrative in the NFL is driven by offseason moves, big acquisitions, key first round picks and therefore scenarios saying rebuilds should get an extra 1st or 2nd round pick, or contenders maintain X ovr by key resigns or free agents would go a long way.
Add CPU scenarios - CPU should have breakouts and under the hood scenario decisions that are announced in the news section (see below) where outcome is randomly determined in order to add depth to solo leagues and parity of CPU vs human controlled teams.
Make news more reactive to scenario outcomes - Narratives are driven by news and outcomes of scenarios should make news stories (especially in online leagues, or if added for CPU) to help drive narrative.

9. Scouting
For most of Madden in the old gen and next gen eras up to Madden 11 scouting was a function of selecting players and seeing their true attributes revealed/refined over the amount of time spent scouting. There was nice presentation of player comparisons, a web of attributes, potential rating on a bar, a face pic depending on Madden edition and a projection of where they might be drafted (plus other basic info like height, weight, age, college etc). Then Madden 12 tried to change the system with structured events revealing certain styles/levels of attributes for a limited number of players (such as combine, or private workouts). It was an OK system but often left you in the dark for most players and forced you to use the "sort by hidden potential" cheat when scouting. Madden 13 moved to the points based scouting with different attributes unlocked by varying costs of scouting points, and later moved to the 3 top attribute reveal system with combine grade and drill results for all (resulted in better basic info on all prospects but some limited fog of war on all players). The 3 attribute system was quick and easy to use but very easy to predict (in online leagues, we would take 6th and 7th round projected players in the 1st round with confidence).

The scouting update for Madden 22 and then 23 changed system towards regional and national scouting staff with harsher fog of war, a lot more variability and picking your poison in terms of where you want your knowledge located. The system has a great foundation but is much harder/longer to use for general players, having to slog between tiles and try to remember who's good and bad (at least there's a draft board). Madden 23 changed the scouting % and positional groups to make it broadly easier while maintaining the risk/reward fog of war element which makes it more sim and Madden 24 will add a slide between tile function to add to the ease.

Verdict - I honestly think the Madden 22/23/24 scouting system is the best they have produced and made better with the exceptional additions to the draft class generator (wider ranges, generational players, 99 club, specialists, now adding out of position) and was worth dedicating the time to produce a Scouting Tool like we did. I would consider this system Good and close to Great but just needs to be made easier to use and add more analytics (draft class strength indicator) and sim appeal (improved scouting cards)

Future Improvements

Add sortable columns - allow to be able to sort the pre combine, combine, attribute grades (by average of the range), names, age, height, weight etc.
Allow exportable draft class array - this was a personal request to a dev as the draft class generator creates an array not accessible by the Madden exporter, this would allow us to move the Scouting Tool to a html version and have it auto update, as well as building scouting cards and analytics further.
Add more sim scouting cards - Have scouts suggest moving a player to better position, whether they're a good or bad scheme fit, player comparisons (floor and ceiling), verbal comments on attributes, SPARQ.
Add more draft class analytics - the Scouting Tool shows you strength of class, draft class summary, projections for full draft picks, an all rookie team, analytics for draft outcome, return of draft grades.
Make Scouts a feature of staffing - give them attributes within the current national/regional limitations, pictures, personalities.
Improve Draft Presentation - more live news, more recap, more analytics, more hype. Drafts are amazing in online leagues but in any league the information is immediately lost when you advance to pre-season.

10. Conclusion
Madden 23 Franchise Systems were Good by the benchmark levels set in previous games. Madden 24 has the potential to start flirting with Great and at a minimum is likely to be considered Good (will reserve judgement after release and Patch 1). Is this an endorsement to go rush out and buy the game? No. I likely won't buy at launch as a combination of professional and personal changes (all positive, don't worry) have forced me to drop online leagues and my gaming time is more limited than ever (hence why F17 did the Madden 23 Scouting Tool and there's no Franchise Guide updates). I'll wait, probably buy for Christmas but expect to actually enjoy a good game this year and I think people have lost sight of what would constitute a good or great Madden. Online 32-user sim leagues are still the best place to experience Franchise as users recreate the competitive nature of the Off-season and team building brilliantly (but they are time consuming, and Franchise corruption bugs are a huge killer). I don't think you can call Franchise bad now, but gameplay and bugs have the ability to drag down good games, if gameplay is solid and bugs are kept to a minimum (none is unrealistic on an annual release cycle) then overall the game could be Good in line with Franchise. I hope you enjoyed reading and feel more positive about the state of Franchise.

The breakdown of verdicts by section:

Team Building - Average
Player Development - Great
Staffing - Average, turning to Good
Morale - Good
Injury - Good
Depth Chart - Great
Training - Great
Scenarios - Good
Scouting - Good
Conclusion - 2 Average, 4 Good, 3 Great, in my books that's a Good becoming Great outcome with improvements mostly required to Staffing and Team Building.

Notes:
I didn't mention Owner mode as it's been stale for a long time and it's time for HC and Owner mode to be merged back into GM mode and then having accountability to an owner adds risk/reward mechanics to Franchise, improving the gaming experience. I also didn't mention home team advantage or momentum as they are gameplay mechanics, but having stadiums with different abilities adds to variation and personality in Franchise too (a recent addition).

Mattanite · 06-13-2023, 07:03 AM

13/10/2023 - I stand by this breakdown for Madden 24. There were a few bugs and glitches but so far nothing that has totally broken M24. But the systems work very well together, teams are fun to build, easy to start but enough difficulty to master inside Franchise, there's enough variety to teams & players, gameplay is excellent and therefore M24 is the current peak for the M22+ cycle since new scouting was introduced and hopefully gets better (pending the result of EA Madden team after sales/reviews).

Staffing (better progression along a bigger staffing tree), morale (use this to create better narratives) & scouting (sorting and analytics) still need work, schemes/playbooks need expanding with option to lock to coach and to take the next step Franchise needs a player chemistry system, offseason programme and expanded injury system.

Controversial opinion: take off the rose tinted glasses of old school Maddens (the team building aspects were not great) and this is the best Madden ever to play Franchise. It should be better than where it is now, but that still doesn't mean it's not the best there's been so far.

ForUntoOblivionSoar∞ · 06-13-2023, 12:29 PM

Seems a bit early IMHO. Things will change from the beta to the release.

kennylc321 · 06-13-2023, 12:33 PM

When it comes to injuries, all I want to know is do QBs get injured. That's all I want.

Mattanite · 06-13-2023, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞


	Seems a bit early IMHO. Things will change from the beta to the release.

Fair enough. I lump Madden 24 in with 22&23 era due to it sharing similar staffing and scouting systems but hopefully improved so it's not about 24 independently. I will update after patch 1 of full game too.

Sent from my H3113 using Tapatalk

Mattanite · 06-13-2023, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennylc321


	When it comes to injuries, all I want to know is do QBs get injured. That's all I want.

Qb injuries and qb scrambling fumbles have been an unsim gameplay issue a while now. Let's hope. Qb injuries definitely has a knock on to franchise system quality too.

Sent from my H3113 using Tapatalk

TarHeelPhenom · 06-13-2023, 01:55 PM

Add positional chemistry - the longer a WR is with a QB should increase chemistry for both and make them more consistent, adding a new WR (even if higher OVR) should come with a disadvantage while you build. Adding OL or DL group chemistry should factor into deciding if you resign an average C or G, just to maintain the chemistry.

I love this idea, especially when it comes to position groups like OL or the defensive backfield...where if there is one bust, it could result in a sack or TFL for the offense, or a TD given up by the defense.

trekfan · 06-13-2023, 02:02 PM

I appreciate the detailed post you've laid out here -- you put a lot of work into this and, though I don't agree with some of your conclusions, you really knocked it out of the park with the detailed, long-form explanations.

I think my biggest issue with all of this is that you're just judging franchise in a vacuum -- as you state "*This is about Franchise systems so I'll not comment on gameplay unless it's part of the sim RPG experience of being a GM and I'm trying to ignore the horrendous recent bugs."

Any discussion around franchise should, in my opinion, include gameplay, it should include the bugs. The various grades you give to the parts of franchise -- team building, player development, staffing, morale, injury, depth chart, training, scenarios, and scouting -- mean little without good gameplay and a less buggy environment to back it up.

If you're just playing franchise to GM an NFL team without hopping into the game, as just a sim experience, than you should be playing a football manager. Seeing the decisions you make in franchise expressed on the virtual football field via gameplay can be great ... or, as it has frequently been for years now, frustrating.

Gameplay -- the actual on the field action -- cannot be divorced from franchise and, as you eloquently state "but gameplay and bugs have the ability to drag down good games." If the gameplay is poor, everything built atop it suffers greatly.

Additionally, Madden's sim experience is so heavily influenced by playbooks that the players, their ratings, your coaches, and your decisions don't matter. You can take an absolute trash-fire of a team, rated barely in the mid 70s overall, and let them romp through franchise mode with an overpowered playbook (Chiefs, Falcons, Cowboys, Bucs).

But even if you're not a solo franchise player -- if you're in a league with a bunch of other players -- franchise mode's various instabilities (file corruptions, unable to sim past certain points, getting stuck in drafts) makes operating an online league a chore.

Maybe Madden 24 turns that around, but we're far beyond "once is a fluke, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern" territory for EA: Madden 24 is likely an incrementally better game than Madden 23, but will come with its own drawbacks different from 23 and will pale in comparison to other sports titles (NBA 2K, EA's own NHL series, MLB the Show).

Judging Madden against the worst of what's it's given us since Madden 19 (I consider this the current era of Madden, but you could call 20 or 21 the beginning if you so wish) is like judging a condemned house against a burned out husk.

The condemned house is a lot nicer than the burned out building, but it's still a condemned house.

06-13-2023, 07:02 AM	#1
Mattanite MVP OVR: 0 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: UK Posts: 1,728	The State of Madden Franchise Has Madden Franchise returned to a "Good" state? I see a lot of comments here and on Reddit lamenting that Madden 24 will be another wasted year, the superman throw is enough cheese to avoid buying and all EA have to do is return the game to the old gen Madden05-08 era and everything will be fine. What defined benchmark does Madden 24 have to achieve before it would be considered good for Franchise again? My bet would be that most players can't define what "Good" is, let alone "Great", so let's have a realistic discussion on where Madden is without the hyperbole. Credentials: I don't want folks to consider this a Madden fluff piece, or that I'm a shill. Those who've been around long enough know that I tear apart the Franchise systems, find bugs and workarounds and write guides to help everyone navigate a game mode that could be considered advanced to the average user. I've had discussions on Franchise systems with Madden developers, they know about the mine and F17's Scouting Tool, had a look at our OL Dev Award Generator, Front Office has helped discussions on sliders and XP, had our feedback taken on board when they implemented new scouting. My point is that I know the game pretty well, as much as the heavy users around here and hopefully this qualifies me to write a piece worth reading. The Franchise Benchmarks Average to Poor* - I think the Madden 13 through 23 could be considered poor building to above average overall due to the step back that Madden 13 took and the rebuild of old features into the game slowly for 10 years. There were bad bugs and boring aspects to each game (Madden 19 real player motion messing game speed up, Madden schemes not changing with coach up from 13 to 18, no advanced depth charts until the last few years etc, morale is redundant for winning teams). Good - Madden 12 was considered the last good Madden by SOFTDRINKTV, if you haven't seen it, I would recommend watching. If this is the case then 08 to 12 on 360/PS3 would all fit this bracket as there weren't tremendous amounts of change in this time (12 in particular hid potential during scouting but you could still sort by it, brought back player roles one time, was the last game on the potential system). Great - A lot argue that 2k5 era and Madden 05 to 08 on Xbox/PS2 were the gold standard of football games and this was when Madden was last "Great". Again, SOFTDRINKTV had a video on the last great Madden (08 on old gen) which is worth a watch and his missing features video focusses a lot of content that was removed during the move from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360. (These games had training camp, working morale system, wide selection of player roles). This is about Franchise systems so I'll not comment on gameplay unless it's part of the sim RPG experience of being a GM and I'm trying to ignore the horrendous recent bugs. I personally group certain games into eras depending on engine and features: Old Gen* - PS2, OG Xbox and PC era with the deeper franchise features (Madden 05-08), Next Gen - PS3, Xbox360 where the games transitioned to better graphics but lost a few franchise features but still maintained some depth (Madden 08-11, Madden 12 included but it had a lot of standalone features). Connected Franchise / Ignite - The Great Loss of franchise features but build up of the physics engine and introduction of online leagues (Madden 13-17), Connected Franchise / Frostbite - Lots of visual improvements but little franchise improvements, added abilities (Madden 18-21), Recent or Modern Era - Restoration of a lot of Next Gen features with new scouting and staffing (Madden 22 & 23... Maybe 24). As part of the discussion I will focus on the following topics: Team Building Player Development Staffing Morale Injury Depth Chart Training Scenarios Scouting Conclusion 1. Team Building I would argue that the recent era of Madden on the Team Schemes system has always worked okay. The recent move to a set list of fixed team schemes was a decent attempt at adding flavours to all 32 teams and add some difficulty in being a GM (do you try to scheme match all players or take non matches but best player available etc). Prior to fixed Team Schemes players were free to pick a scheme but then change the archetype at each individual position which would change the OVR of players at that position. The use of CPU coaches using archetypes to target players was a neat patch after losing the varied OVR view by player but it meant that CPU was too rigid in team building ( I want a Speed ROLB, not a LOLB). Having sim stats tied to playbooks instead of a combination of Team Scheme and Player OVR is a crime. Having a set of playbooks mismatching the Team Schemes for generated coaches is also a bad design (hint: in offline, you can create a new user for that gen coach and change the scheme or playbook so that they match and then retire. Online you need a friend to log in to do it). In previous good/great Maddens the Team Scheme mainly consisted of run or pass weighting, pass rush or run stop weighting etc. This was great for giving coaches more personality to how teams played but fell short in terms of setting out schemes properly (e.g. Madden 12 and earlier does a terrible job at defining player archetypes and getting teams to recognise the difference between a 43 and 34 defense). The player positions have never changed and always been poor, they've always been rigid ROLB or LOLB, RG or LG. It affects how draft players pool (but at least Scouting is now more broad), how Free Agency bids, how CPU views contracts and team development (will resign a decent LT despite having two good RT). No Madden can be argued better. Verdict - Madden is now average but in a different way due to how Team Schemes are implemented, but previous Maddens have never been good or great in this regard. A good Madden would implement both the current and previous aspects of Team Schemes and a great madden would move to modern Player Positions. Future Improvements A return to Player OVR by archetype would mean that sim stats dynamically adjust which is far more sim (e.g. OLB Von Miller playing in Tampa2 scheme would mean he's expected to play coverage OLB and his stats should reflect that he's in the 80s for coverage archetype and a mismatched system player, Teams with a 3-4 scheme would view him as a pass rusher and offer him more in Free Agency and then his OVR and team scheme would provide sim stats heavier weighted in Sacks, TFL etc). Adding back the weighting sliders to coach schemes and having sim stats further adjust to this would add to a better sim experience. An expanded list of Team Schemes could add more variation over time to CPU run teams, which would need to coincide with expanded playbooks. Change player positions to better fit the modern NFL. By pooling players into modern positions like OT, OL, DL, Pass Rusher etc and having a combination of "preferred position" and Team Scheme vs dynamic Player OVR, CPU will better manage drafting, free agency and contracts and also pump more personality into team building. 2. Player Development Previous eras of Madden had the potential system, in the older Maddens (old gen) it was hidden apart from during scouting, in the next gen (09-12) versions it was presented as a single grade which offered a wide fog of war of 10ovr. Since Madden 13 it has been the XP system, but this moved from free spending to Skill Points in Madden 19. In the old and next gen Maddens on the potential system, even physical attributes would get up to +6 boosts after a good year if under your Potential cap which meant rapid inflation of physical attributes, it was a bad system. In 13-18 there was a 4 tier dev system (slow, normal, star, superstar) but most players were normal which ruined the OVR distribution curve and you could buy increases in Dev level for high amounts of XP (not a great system) but the CPU never waited long enough to buy them (unless you set XP to spend per season). The move to skill points and a 4-tier dev system (normal, star, superstar, X-factor) meant much needed parity of a randomised player development system (especially in online leagues) and much better OVR distribution curves (normal is now the equivalent of slow but with better PR). Player roles were in old gen, returned once in next gen (Madden 12) and then reintroduced a 3rd time in Madden 23. Player roles are huge in the sim experience of Franchise! They shape the personalities of a team in a vast way and their absence marked the dullest era of Madden (13-22). It affects how CPU team builds, order depth charts and target free agents and even how humans team build (we all want those veteran backup Mentors). Madden 23 brought them back which can only be a good thing (even if a little buggy at times). The combination of player roles and player abilities marks the move into Great territory for me. Player traits are also a great way to expand the personalities of the players around the league as they govern on and off field behaviours. Old gen didn't do this in a good way (relying more on player roles and weapons) and Madden 12 expanded on traits in a great way including the hot/cold streak and dynamic traits in game as well as the 5star consistency rating upgrading long term (veterans were worth it). Current Maddens have player traits and they work fine but more could be done with them (like dynamic in game, or a way to upgrade them long term). While player traits govern what players are doing, player attributes govern how well they do it and the recent Maddens have excelled at this! Go back to Madden 08 and see how a QB is defined by only AWR, THP and THA with the only other flavour being are they built like a Scrambler or not... Madden 12 expanded this by adding to Short, Mid and Deep accuracies but the recent modern Maddens now have break sack, throw on run, throw under pressure etc. Go back and Route Running isn't a thing, now you have short, medium and deep. Pass rush was one attribute, now you have finesse and power. Blocking the same. Coverage the same. Next gen Madden did one thing better than recent Maddens and that was the Phys, Int, Dur, Size and Production attributes which affected OVR by scheme. A veteran would have higher OVR with the same attributes over a rookie due to Production. A Russel Wilson build would be rated lower due to Size. Weight for OL/DL mattered on paper even if not as much in game. Verdict - recent Maddens are the best they've ever been for Player Development so I would say they are Great but to move into Glorious territory they could bring back the combined attributes. Future Improvements Bring back combined attributes Keep adding attributes - long snapping is a much needed addition, Kick accuracy short and long. Expand traits - make them dynamic again and veterans can train to improve them. Make height and weight matter more - height should affect length for OL/DL interactions. Weight should determine if a player can be moved along with Strength. Expand player roles - add the likes of Role Players Disconnect Abilities from the Dev system - Make it so that a normal dev power HB can earn a trucking ability. Move to a 5 tier dev system - add slow back to dev traits with serious XP penalties but reserve it for generated players only or dynamic after franchise start, and make it so only players with high expectations can progress there (drafted first 3 rounds, overpaid Free Agent etc). 3. Staffing Old gen and next gen Maddens had real staffing for HC, OC, DC and ST and they would have attributes like the players, which would also develop over time. If you wanted to fire Brad Childress from the Vikings and replace him with OC Leslie Frazier, you could. If you wanted to hire a retired HOF level player as a coach and build them up like Randy Moss to OC, then HC, you could. You had companies that either provided injury resistance or player development. The HC, OC, DC and ST all provided player bonuses according to their scheme such as OLB +3 pass rush but sometimes had a penalty like OLB -3 ZCV too. Madden 13 moved to HC only with ability to purchase packages affecting more GM roles than HC (develop players, target FA better, more scout points, affect resign or retirement). The other staff members affected what position you got your discount during scouting and the return from injury bonus/penalty (which didn't always work anyway). If you were in coach mode instead of owner mode then you couldn't even change the second two staff positions anyway (despite the Scouting discount still being in effect). Madden 13 to 22 was the low in staffing. Madden 23 added this function back somewhat the coaching ability tree affecting on field performance via the OC and DC, with the HC affecting staff and player development and the GM style abilities being assigned to Player Personnel. This will be further expanded with the addition of a 3rd tree and the early promise of tree's being able to stick. The OC/DC promotion to HC system didn't work and there were many crippling to annoying bugs, if they have this fixed then people will be more receptive to the changes now. The staff system is very poorly gamed though, they provide no incentive to fire a staff member and there is no regression. You accumulate staff points forever until you have a maxed out Staff and then grow bored. There's no risk, no rebuild or no opportunity. Verdict - Madden 23 had almost returned to good but fell short due to bugs and not working as advertised, Madden 24 could be good. No Madden has ever been great on staffing...To be great (and the only time I'll compare to 2k) they need to overhaul into a system similar to that of NBA 2k22. Future Improvements Expand Staffing positions - Add in a OL, DL, Edge, DB, WR/TE, QB coach, have them affect attribute bonuses, training outcomes and player development. Add Staffing Attributes - Add in whether the coach is technical, good at motivating, a whisperer style. If you want to find a QB coach to work with a rookie with great player development and film study ability that would go a long way to Add more Staffing ability trees and make them carry over between positions - if your OC becomes the HC they should have OL ability trees still. Add risk to the staffing system - make it so that Player Morale is affected magnitudes more to the downside if a maxed out staff starts losing. A great staff shouldn't be losing and may have grown stale or the HC is a mismatch to Team State (e.g. Andy Reid and the post McNabb Eagles, went to the Chiefs and won a SB) and only by firing staff can you reset the Morale penalty. Add a scheme/playbook lock option - another option to gamify the staff system, your newly drafted scrambler QB might require a better Scheme or Playbook but your OC is running Vertical Power... time to get a new OC with Ravens playbook. 4. Morale Old gen Maddens/2k5 had a good morale systems impacted in multiple ways beyond just the win/loss record and could even lead to holdouts. The shift to next gen from 08/09 pretty much got rid of this (even though the Morale bar remained) and then Madden 13 era pretty much had nothing so it makes a very quick section to discuss. Recent Maddens added back morale in the form of attribute bonuses and penalties that accumulated over a single season and could be reset for teams under 50 to rid them of the penalty. This system quickly death spirals a losing team into something god awful (and a huge hinderance in online leagues) as it's based on win-loss, inversely, a winning team goes on to steam roll opponents as they've maxed morale. The addition of Scenarios that swing morale based on answers and objectives was much needed and helps rebalance morale away from just win/loss. Verdict - Madden 23 and the expectation for Madden 24 is Good in terms of morale when compared to 08-12 era, and much better than the Madden 13 era. To be great more needs to be added such as personality based holdouts, staffing impacts, stability of a franchise (such as the Patriots losing Tom Brady, or how Peyton Manning held an entire franchise together for decades). Future Improvements Add more morale based scenarios - especially in off season, if you made your team OVR jump up then you go into preseason feeling better than a team in decline that fell apart in off season. A key win should swing a franchise direction more. Players should hold out, especially if out performing contracts. Add positional chemistry - the longer a WR is with a QB should increase chemistry for both and make them more consistent, adding a new WR (even if higher OVR) should come with a disadvantage while you build. Adding OL or DL group chemistry should factor into deciding if you resign an average C or G, just to maintain the chemistry. 5. Injury Another quick one as Madden has had a pretty consistent injury system for decades. In previous and next gen Maddens the IR didn't even free up a roster spot, so this was added in the current era. Recent Maddens even added the return from IR function! Then add in progressive fatigue impacting over the course of a season, you have the most in depth injury system in Madden ever! A player gets injured via tackle or impact block (after this was re-added from the Madden 13 era). The rate of injury is too different at the moment between tackle vs impact so less coaches carry depth at HB so this is a poor aspect of current franchises. Verdict - Madden 23 and going into 24 is in a better place than historic Maddens so this is easy to say it's actually good. To be great there needs to be better management around injuries, lingering/historic injuries and a breakdown of body parts. Madden 24 adds new sliders and we'll wait to see the impact but this is "a step in the right direction" to use a tired cliché. Future Improvements Add injury rating by body part - self explanatory. Add lingering injuries - make it so players can keep playing but with a slight penalty rather than the Big Decision style big penalty or better XP choice you have now. Add historically big injuries - so you can see that 4 seasons ago this player tore their right ACL and that's why their right knee has such as low rating. Add medical staff to better manage injuries/fatigue - can provide stamina bonuses if you hire more of a trainer, or focus on prevention at expense of training, or recovery at expense of prevention etc. 6. Depth Chart This one is an easy win for recent Maddens. Go back to old gen Maddens and experience the frustration of trying to get your 3rd string speed HB to come in for a clear passing situation. Or your OLB to adjust into Pass Rushers for running the Nickel. Recent Maddens now have on the fly adjustable audibles, you can flick options for SpellHB, formation subs, specific depth chart positions such as RushDE, RushDT, slotCB, SlotWR, PowerHB, RecHB etc. Recent Maddens added a Practice Squad and then expanded the Practice Squad rules. Recent Maddens have a depth chart view where you can click the tiles or even adjust them. It shows the dev of all players and links quickly to the abilities. Verdict - Old Maddens did depth charts poorly to average and recent Maddens are far far ahead in terms of team management pre and mid game. There's minor tweaks that can be done but it's in a great place already. Future Improvements Add expanded depth chart tiles - add the ability to manage special teams formations pre game so I know my starting G isn't out there to get injured and can pick better blockers/gunner on returns. Add a Long Snapper - pretty please! Add flip positions - allow me to choose high safety vs box safety so if a formation flips I know who I want as sweeper. Or left vs right WR on the outside. 7. Training Old Gen Madden had mini games akin to training camp where attributes could be boosted if you did well, this vanished in the move to next gen and any form of training (beyond a practice mode) wouldn't reappear until the XP system was introduced in Madden 13. In the XP era, you trained and gained more XP (affected by Coach perks, scheme matches, archetype matches and dev) and your players got better. The bronze, silver, gold system affected the XP awarded to positional groups but the problem was CPU only got bronze (later Maddens changed to random to help CPU XP) so your team could repeat until gold and then accelerate player development passed the CPU. It had a minor impact on gameplay and had no downsides. Madden 12 did a very good job of hiding attributes of rookies if you hadn't scouted them until cut weeks (and you still might face some uncertainty), so practice or preseason games was essential to help judge how a rookie played. Madden 23 introduced a training system that had options for heavy or light (which had injury risk implications) and then forced to pick a strategy for the next game which would offer a bonus and a penalty to much broader gameplay aspects, as well as providing temporary attribute bonuses by the strategy picked, and awarding XP. Focus players has been a free/easy way to boost XP for 3 selected players for a while and Madden 23 added staff abilities to unlock more slots improving the variability between teams (focus more on development or gameplay etc). Madden 24 plans to re-add the mini games which is the offseason training camp and has a similar setup to old gen (awards skill points and snaps for hidden dev) and it's a welcome addition. [/b]Verdict - The combination of additions in Madden 23 and planned for Madden 24 has not only returned Madden to where it was in the old gen era but has gone beyond this, in which case you would declare this as great but still benefitting from improvement.[/b] Future Improvements Add a broad offseason training scenario - Like with the weekly training, a coach should be able to assess his team in offseason and pick focus groups which result in bigger breakout XP rewards, dev increases but result in season ending injuries. Add rookie minicamp - Having a fog of war for all rookies (devs and attributes) until enough snaps have been played (progressive unlock of attributes for less scouted) would be very fun experience, especially if you have a dedicated rookie mini camp to judge "feel". Make star players exempt - Redshirt QBs, or have lighter training loads for Xno of specific franchise players (like how Adrian Peterson was always rested up to regular season as he was always in shape). 8. Scenarios There's a common complaint amongst the older people that Madden now feels like a series of Play Now games. I think this was always the case as there has never been a Madden that had a season long or multi season narrative. I think we make the narratives in our head (this is a rebuild year, there's a competition between my veteran WR and the shiny new fast rookie I want to play). Madden 17 added Big Decisions but it just highlighting decisions you already made (resigns) or offered an XP bonus for not returning early from injury (not many picked the starter if it was -20 speed). This changed with recent Maddens as more elaborate scenarios were added, now you have breakouts, frustrated players, mentor choices, multi game threads (building up to harder goals), key games, trap games, rest starters, bye week decision, short week decision and more. This direction has been great at improving both the solo experience and online leagues, adds risk and variability, and provides new narratives where previously it was your imagination. Madden 23 changes to staffing added game targets for staff points which allow you to define how you will approach a game and makes you asses your team strengths or opponents weaknesses to get the most points, again, driving narrative between games. Verdict - Scenarios are all about driving narrative and variability (surprise), and in this regard have no gotten into the Good territory and didn't really feature in old Maddens. To get to Great I think Scenarios need to drive a deeper longer narrative with Team State and Offseason like the real NFL. Developing deeper Scenarios also helps develop the Team Building aspect of Franchise at the same time. Future Improvements Add a Team State function - Build multi season narratives by offering scenarios based on team state (rebuilding, developing, contending, reloading, declining) such as "start a rookie" scenario for rebuilds or "trade for an 80+ player" for reloads. Add more offseason scenarios - a lot of narrative in the NFL is driven by offseason moves, big acquisitions, key first round picks and therefore scenarios saying rebuilds should get an extra 1st or 2nd round pick, or contenders maintain X ovr by key resigns or free agents would go a long way. Add CPU scenarios - CPU should have breakouts and under the hood scenario decisions that are announced in the news section (see below) where outcome is randomly determined in order to add depth to solo leagues and parity of CPU vs human controlled teams. Make news more reactive to scenario outcomes - Narratives are driven by news and outcomes of scenarios should make news stories (especially in online leagues, or if added for CPU) to help drive narrative. 9. Scouting For most of Madden in the old gen and next gen eras up to Madden 11 scouting was a function of selecting players and seeing their true attributes revealed/refined over the amount of time spent scouting. There was nice presentation of player comparisons, a web of attributes, potential rating on a bar, a face pic depending on Madden edition and a projection of where they might be drafted (plus other basic info like height, weight, age, college etc). Then Madden 12 tried to change the system with structured events revealing certain styles/levels of attributes for a limited number of players (such as combine, or private workouts). It was an OK system but often left you in the dark for most players and forced you to use the "sort by hidden potential" cheat when scouting. Madden 13 moved to the points based scouting with different attributes unlocked by varying costs of scouting points, and later moved to the 3 top attribute reveal system with combine grade and drill results for all (resulted in better basic info on all prospects but some limited fog of war on all players). The 3 attribute system was quick and easy to use but very easy to predict (in online leagues, we would take 6th and 7th round projected players in the 1st round with confidence). The scouting update for Madden 22 and then 23 changed system towards regional and national scouting staff with harsher fog of war, a lot more variability and picking your poison in terms of where you want your knowledge located. The system has a great foundation but is much harder/longer to use for general players, having to slog between tiles and try to remember who's good and bad (at least there's a draft board). Madden 23 changed the scouting % and positional groups to make it broadly easier while maintaining the risk/reward fog of war element which makes it more sim and Madden 24 will add a slide between tile function to add to the ease. Verdict - I honestly think the Madden 22/23/24 scouting system is the best they have produced and made better with the exceptional additions to the draft class generator (wider ranges, generational players, 99 club, specialists, now adding out of position) and was worth dedicating the time to produce a Scouting Tool like we did. I would consider this system Good and close to Great but just needs to be made easier to use and add more analytics (draft class strength indicator) and sim appeal (improved scouting cards) Future Improvements Add sortable columns - allow to be able to sort the pre combine, combine, attribute grades (by average of the range), names, age, height, weight etc. Allow exportable draft class array - this was a personal request to a dev as the draft class generator creates an array not accessible by the Madden exporter, this would allow us to move the Scouting Tool to a html version and have it auto update, as well as building scouting cards and analytics further. Add more sim scouting cards - Have scouts suggest moving a player to better position, whether they're a good or bad scheme fit, player comparisons (floor and ceiling), verbal comments on attributes, SPARQ. Add more draft class analytics - the Scouting Tool shows you strength of class, draft class summary, projections for full draft picks, an all rookie team, analytics for draft outcome, return of draft grades. Make Scouts a feature of staffing - give them attributes within the current national/regional limitations, pictures, personalities. Improve Draft Presentation - more live news, more recap, more analytics, more hype. Drafts are amazing in online leagues but in any league the information is immediately lost when you advance to pre-season. 10. Conclusion Madden 23 Franchise Systems were Good by the benchmark levels set in previous games. Madden 24 has the potential to start flirting with Great and at a minimum is likely to be considered Good (will reserve judgement after release and Patch 1). Is this an endorsement to go rush out and buy the game? No. I likely won't buy at launch as a combination of professional and personal changes (all positive, don't worry) have forced me to drop online leagues and my gaming time is more limited than ever (hence why F17 did the Madden 23 Scouting Tool and there's no Franchise Guide updates). I'll wait, probably buy for Christmas but expect to actually enjoy a good game this year and I think people have lost sight of what would constitute a good or great Madden. Online 32-user sim leagues are still the best place to experience Franchise as users recreate the competitive nature of the Off-season and team building brilliantly (but they are time consuming, and Franchise corruption bugs are a huge killer). I don't think you can call Franchise bad now, but gameplay and bugs have the ability to drag down good games, if gameplay is solid and bugs are kept to a minimum (none is unrealistic on an annual release cycle) then overall the game could be Good in line with Franchise. I hope you enjoyed reading and feel more positive about the state of Franchise. The breakdown of verdicts by section: Team Building - Average Player Development - Great Staffing - Average, turning to Good Morale - Good Injury - Good Depth Chart - Great Training - Great Scenarios - Good Scouting - Good Conclusion - 2 Average, 4 Good, 3 Great, in my books that's a Good becoming Great outcome with improvements mostly required to Staffing and Team Building. Notes: I didn't mention Owner mode as it's been stale for a long time and it's time for HC and Owner mode to be merged back into GM mode and then having accountability to an owner adds risk/reward mechanics to Franchise, improving the gaming experience. I also didn't mention home team advantage or momentum as they are gameplay mechanics, but having stadiums with different abilities adds to variation and personality in Franchise too (a recent addition). Kotter, Picci, King Gro23 and 9 others like this. __________________ The State of Madden Franchise Scouting Tool Draft Class Strength Generator Franchise Tips Last edited by Mattanite; 06-21-2023 at 03:39 AM.

06-13-2023, 07:03 AM	#2
Mattanite MVP OVR: 0 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: UK Posts: 1,728	Re: The State of Madden Franchise 13/10/2023 - I stand by this breakdown for Madden 24. There were a few bugs and glitches but so far nothing that has totally broken M24. But the systems work very well together, teams are fun to build, easy to start but enough difficulty to master inside Franchise, there's enough variety to teams & players, gameplay is excellent and therefore M24 is the current peak for the M22+ cycle since new scouting was introduced and hopefully gets better (pending the result of EA Madden team after sales/reviews). Staffing (better progression along a bigger staffing tree), morale (use this to create better narratives) & scouting (sorting and analytics) still need work, schemes/playbooks need expanding with option to lock to coach and to take the next step Franchise needs a player chemistry system, offseason programme and expanded injury system. Controversial opinion: take off the rose tinted glasses of old school Maddens (the team building aspects were not great) and this is the best Madden ever to play Franchise. It should be better than where it is now, but that still doesn't mean it's not the best there's been so far. UravenzownU, Ghost Of The Year and tosa like this. __________________ The State of Madden Franchise Scouting Tool Draft Class Strength Generator Franchise Tips Last edited by Mattanite; 10-13-2023 at 08:11 AM.

06-13-2023, 12:33 PM	#4
kennylc321 Pro OVR: 0 Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: The State of Madden Franchise When it comes to injuries, all I want to know is do QBs get injured. That's all I want. cuppylove, Boling4Humor, ClassActFan and 2 others like this.

06-13-2023, 01:55 PM	#7
TarHeelPhenom All Star OVR: 10 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NC	Re: The State of Madden Franchise Add positional chemistry - the longer a WR is with a QB should increase chemistry for both and make them more consistent, adding a new WR (even if higher OVR) should come with a disadvantage while you build. Adding OL or DL group chemistry should factor into deciding if you resign an average C or G, just to maintain the chemistry. I love this idea, especially when it comes to position groups like OL or the defensive backfield...where if there is one bust, it could result in a sack or TFL for the offense, or a TD given up by the defense. Momoney168 and Mattanite like this. __________________ "Dunks are tough, but when a 35 footer come rainin out the sky...it'll wire you up"

06-13-2023, 02:02 PM	#8
trekfan Designated Red Shirt OVR: 0 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,795	Re: The State of Madden Franchise I appreciate the detailed post you've laid out here -- you put a lot of work into this and, though I don't agree with some of your conclusions, you really knocked it out of the park with the detailed, long-form explanations. I think my biggest issue with all of this is that you're just judging franchise in a vacuum -- as you state *"This is about Franchise systems so I'll not comment on gameplay unless it's part of the sim RPG experience of being a GM and I'm trying to ignore the horrendous recent bugs." Any discussion around franchise should, in my opinion, include gameplay, it should include the bugs. The various grades you give to the parts of franchise -- team building, player development, staffing, morale, injury, depth chart, training, scenarios, and scouting -- mean little without good gameplay and a less buggy environment to back it up. If you're just playing franchise to GM an NFL team without hopping into the game, as just a sim experience, than you should be playing a football manager. Seeing the decisions you make in franchise expressed on the virtual football field via gameplay can be great ... or, as it has frequently been for years now, frustrating. Gameplay -- the actual on the field action -- cannot be divorced from franchise and, as you eloquently state "but gameplay and bugs have the ability to drag down good games." If the gameplay is poor, everything built atop it suffers greatly. Additionally, Madden's sim experience is so heavily influenced by playbooks that the players, their ratings, your coaches, and your decisions don't matter. You can take an absolute trash-fire of a team, rated barely in the mid 70s overall, and let them romp through franchise mode with an overpowered playbook (Chiefs, Falcons, Cowboys, Bucs). But even if you're not a solo franchise player -- if you're in a league with a bunch of other players -- franchise mode's various instabilities (file corruptions, unable to sim past certain points, getting stuck in drafts) makes operating an online league a chore. Maybe Madden 24 turns that around, but we're far beyond "once is a fluke, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern" territory for EA: Madden 24 is likely an incrementally better game than Madden 23, but will come with its own drawbacks different from 23 and will pale in comparison to other sports titles (NBA 2K, EA's own NHL series, MLB the Show). Judging Madden against the worst of what's it's given us since Madden 19 (I consider this the current era of Madden, but you could call 20 or 21 the beginning if you so wish) is like judging a condemned house against a burned out husk. The condemned house is a lot nicer than the burned out building, but it's still a condemned house. spankdatazz22, The Beard, Picci and 3 others like this. __________________ Any comments are welcome.** Texas Two-Step (2K20 Alt History) Orange And Blue Forever (NCAA 14 Dynasty) You Don't Know Jack (2K18 Pacers Dynasty - Complete) Second Coming (2K16 Sonics MyLeague - Complete) The Gold Standard (2K13 Dynasty - Complete)

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