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Originally Posted by CM Hooe |
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To be clear, I said "predictably" because I have a tendency to go against what appears to be popular opinion on these boards. No slight on you.
On 8-bit and 16-bit football video games - my recollection is that the concept of a wrap tackle didn't exist. All tackles were defenders diving at the ball carrier with one eight-angle sprite animation to choose from. To that end making a comparison isn't particularly useful. Either way, bringing up sprite-based games isn't relevant to the quality of the current game, as 2D and 3D are two entirely different animals.
As to Madden on Gen-6 and Gen-7 consoles being animated poorly, you're going to have to give specific examples because I simply don't see poor quality animations, any glaring issues with the inverse kinematics or in blending animations together, or what have you. There is player warping on occasion, and I allow that this has historically been a point of frustration in Madden, but all animation-driven sports games have warping to some extent. I think there are also issues where certain situations do not have proper animations placed into the game - OL/DL battles come to mind - but the animations present in the game and how they trigger and execute by and large all fit a football context as well.
I'm not going to entertain specific comparisons to other games because that is a no-no in the Madden forum.
In any case, I invite you to be more specific to your point that Madden animates poorly. I could be missing something.
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Don't want to get too far off topic, but I also don't want to come off as trolling, so I'll give examples lol.
On the 8bit thing. I'm with you that the level of sophistication on those games makes it seem like there is no point to even talk about them when you have experienced the renaissance of gaming that we have now, but that doesn't mean that they were all created equally or that I , at least, can't see that there were things that some devs did better using the same tech.
On the PS1, Tiburon said that a polygon based Football game on that hardware wasn't possible. Gameday comes out, and they say... oops. Did 989 have access to a more powerful dev console than Tiburon? Absolutely not. That's just an example of a dev doing more with the same hardware than another, in general, EA/Tiburon in particular. I could cite many more but I'll stop there and get back to 8bit.
Though these two games are 8bit, I think that it is still easy to see that one is doing much more than the other. Don't know if you were a big Football VG fan on NES, but if you played Tecmo Bowl, you know that the game was a classic, but pretty limited. Had only 7 or 8 players, can't remember, and the graphics were good at the time, but it was a very flat 2D feeling game. Fast forward to when Play-Action Football came out and I can't see how it isn't readily apparent that this game is doing much more with the same hardware. The graphics were noticeably better, even for 8bit. It had 11 on 11. Had many more than 4 plays. Had better game play, and felt more 3D even though it was a 2D sprite game as well. Those games were not created equal. One pushed the envelope much further on the same hardware. That's the only point I was making. Whether it was graphics, animation, or actual voice over play by play, Madden's counterparts always seemed to push the envelope a little further, regardless of hardware. I just focused on the animation piece because that was what we were talking about. With that I'll get back to PS2 and Madden animations.
Without the benefit of being able to view YouTube at work, to get a video and dissect it and attach it to this post for comment, it is hard to explain what is wrong with the animations, but I'll try.
The animations on PS2 Madden were fairly smooth. They have that going for them. No hitching like current gen. There was no foot planting on PS2 though. There was no realistic body lean for change of direction. You basically just swerved when you made a turn kind of like how you did in Super Mario brothers if you were sprinting but then tried to stop. You would hold the joystick left but you would still be sliding right until you slowed down enough to start going left. It wasn't as exaggerated as it was on Super Mario, but that's the best way I can describe locomotion on PS2. It was sluggish and sliding and not at all realistic. The straight-line running does not look like a human running to me either. It looks better than current gen running, but it doesn't look like a human running either. It looks like a little kid taking choppy little steps at best, but definitely not like a premier athlete running. There is no indication of weight, The feet barely impact the ground and sudden changes in direction would induce a moonwalk. Yeah, I don't get why people are infatuated with those animations.
As far as special moves go it gets much, much worse. The juke was comical. Looks like you jump up from being scared to death and holler "help me Jesus!" The spin is the most absurd thing in the history of gaming. You could spin a distance of close to 10yds (slight exaggeration). How many highlight reels of Madden include kickoff or punt returns with people doing something superhuman with the spin move? Hell pretty much any sweep play or outside run done by a player online BEGINS with the spin move because it immediately spins you past the outside contain!
Now contrast that with 2K. The jukes look infinitely more realistic. Include a head fake like a real juke and can be chained together. The spin on 2K does not go anywhere. It is like how a spin is used in real life. To break out of a tackle or to prevent a defender from getting their hands on you or a good shot on you. No one spins 8yds out of the way and leaves a defender in a cloud of dust. I won't even go into the fact that there is foot planting, leaning, implied player weight, and a much better representation of momentum than the sliding that is/was Madden on last gen.
Really have no idea how anyone can prefer Madden animations to any other Football game (even NFL Fever animated better). The same goes for pretty much any EA Sports game. Live compared to NBA2k is like the Heat vs The Bucks. Top Spin vs Grand Slam Tennis? Again, I'll quit while I'm behind.
Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, but I don't see much beauty in the way that any Madden game animates, or how their player models are drawn. If others do, then there is nothing I can say that will make them see what their eyes apparently are not.