Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

01:04 PM - August 23, 2010 by RaychelSnr

The Madden series is one that originally helped to define the term "video game stats." So it should come as no surprise that Madden 11's short-lived shelf life is already being badgered by a near-unanimous questioning of "where's the defense?"

For football fans trying to reconcile themselves to another "offense-heavy" version of Madden, it feels like forever -- not six years ago -- when Ray Lewis first jumped off the cover of Madden NFL 2005, sprinted through the A gap and finally showed armchair quarterbacks what it was like to "Fear the D."

Line shifts, defensive hot routes and the brand-new "Hit Stick" were some of the key features that helped distance Madden NFL 2005 from the sideline-rollouts and 70-yard streak passes of Madden NFL 2004. After all, let's not forget that Madden 04 is most-remembered for the "god status" it ascribed to cover athlete Michael Vick and his unstoppable, scramble-based offense.

But while the marketing of Madden NFL 2005 heavily emphasized the game's new defensive features, it's the balanced gameplay for which Madden NFL 2005 has become fondly remembered -- a balance that, thus far, remains nonexistent in Madden NFL 2011.

Read More - Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 96 - View All

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Member Comments

# 1 BezO @ 08/23/10 01:15 PM

Quote:


	The Hit Stick is now something defenders should attempt when the ball carrier has already been slowed or staggered by a teammate's initial tackle. In other words, the player needs to become an easy, stationary target not unlike the wild elk hunted by Jared Allen in the offseason.

Ha! Good luck engaging.

Not that I liked the hit stick's effectiveness before, but lowering it was just one more thing that tipped the see saw all the way to the offense. This is one of the most lop sided Maddens I can remember. Maybe EA thinks gamers only want to have fun half the time.

# 2 rooney8 @ 08/23/10 01:20 PM

Do casual fans actually enjoy not being able to do anything on Defense?

# 3 archibalduk @ 08/23/10 01:48 PM

Well I could possibly what you could term a "casual" fan in that I have no tactical knowledge and at the moment rely solely on GameFlow (although I'd really love to get my teeth into learning the tactics/plays) - and other than a brief phase of playing Madden 2001, Madden 11 is my first real NFL game. I can tell you that I REALLY DON'T like not being able to do anything on defence! Although I am enjoying the game, I really do feel limited when playing on the defence - and I'm starting to get the impression I should have saved the money and picked up an older version of the game.

Another thing is that the manual neglects explaining much about defence. Although the menu mentions that pressing the right stick down whilst engaged performs a power move and left/right perform a finesse move, looking at the control settings from the ingame menus it doesn't state that the right analogue stick performs any defensive moves. It's very confusing for newcomers to the series like myself. On the other hand, there's plenty of explanation of the offensive right analogue stick - why not put that much detail in explaining the hit stick?!

# 4 RUFFNREADY @ 08/23/10 01:59 PM

I gues we all have to wait for madden 12.

# 5 josef @ 08/23/10 02:05 PM

Saints with no hit-stickers!? Ouch.. Where's Vilma at least? I sort of miss the easier hit stick tackles.. Me and my buddies would always cringe and/or go nuts when we connected or got handed a hit-stick smack down. I understand they are trying to make it more risk/reward but I also like to have fun. Defense just feels a little blah. Still loving the game though.

# 6 Nerox23 @ 08/23/10 02:12 PM

After watching that video im getting suh on my team in franchise mode

# 7 mike291md @ 08/23/10 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFFNREADY


	I gues we all have to wait for madden 12.

You're probably right lol but it sure does get tiring having to say this to ourselves every year.

Someone in another thread brought up an interesting idea that the game could become subscription based, much like MMOs are. Rather than stopping work on Madden 11 at a certain time so they can focus on 12, do it like an MMO and work on just Madden. Do away with having Madden 1, 2, 12, etc...give small roster and gaming updates every week and have a huge game expansion come out every year. Just food for thought.

# 8 guaps @ 08/23/10 02:21 PM

I'll try and make this short

First of all, I found your post to be a great read. I just want to further elaborate on some of the issues you mention.

While EA sports has got the acceleration 'right' for quarterback vs. defensive linemen, as you write, they haven't got acceleration right.

Acceleration is how fast you reach top speed, which the game is not able to simulate. I mentioned this first when EA released the locomotion blog. Think of acceleration as a car race.

Car A is able to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 5 seconds, but has a top speed of 60 mph. Car B accelerates from 0-60 mph in 8 seconds, but has a top speed of 120 mph.

If the cars start at the same time, Car A will accelerate away from Car B for the first 8 seconds, period. After 8 seconds Car B will start to close the gap and eventually take the lead, if the track is long enough.

Now try looking at the locomotion blog, or put Wes Welker next to Randy Moss in practice mode and run streaks and you will see that Madden 11 unfortunately doesn't get it right.

Secondly, you mention Newton's Second Law of Motion (Force = Mass x Acceleration), but if Madden doesn't get acceleration right, and does not have player mass (at least with the current physics engine), then there is no possibility of getting hit power right.

My theory behind the Hit Power rating is, that linebackers and defensive backs usually are in motion (mass x acceleration) when tackling, thus appearing to have more hit power. But defensive linemen would need less speed to obtain the same force due to their size and weight, and because they usually aren't at high speeds when tackling, they get a low Hit Power rating.

If EA Sports were to fix acceleration and incorporate mass into the game, tackling would be function of Newton's Third Law of Motion, Force versus Force, which is the essence of football.

In the above motion refers to the momentum of a player.

# 9 spankdatazz22 @ 08/23/10 02:24 PM

As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

# 10 guaps @ 08/23/10 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

From the NBA Elite blog:
"The number one reason we wanted to move towards Real Physics was to eliminate the two player animations that were commonplace in NBA LIVE.

One of my biggest frustrations in playing last year�s game was how often you lost control over your player due to these two player animations.

...

Integrating physics into NBA ELITE 11 has had a huge impact on the gameplay experience. The animation system is much more dynamic and responsive to both the physics system and the user�s input, defense has been made both fun and effective by giving control to the player"

# 11 spankdatazz22 @ 08/23/10 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guaps


	EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

The "real-time physics" aspect of Elite and NHL11 seem limited in their own right though. I haven't seen it all, but everything I've seen has been two-players interacting. I haven't seen any video that has had 3+players interacting simultaneously free form in real-time. While real-time physics are ultimately desired, I don't think it's a necessity at this point. It's just that Tiburon's approach to motion-capture seems so inadequate that it's actually worse than what football games from other developers were already doing last gen

# 12 shadthedad @ 08/23/10 02:56 PM

Great read! In fact it's one of the best reads I have read on this site. The funny thing is that one of my buddies was talking to Jerome Bettis and asked him hits the hardest in the league....Ray Lewis? Jerome looked at him like a moron and said no, all defensive lineman. In Maddens defense, when a defensive lineman wraps you up behind the line of scrimmage, you rarely shed the tackle.

# 13 bmj2k7 @ 08/23/10 03:51 PM

what about brandon meriweather from the patriots, he hits way harder that patrick chung, most the big hits from the patriots secondary came from meriweather, chung doesnt even hit that hard and im a fan of him since he pleyed for oergon, how does meriwether not have an 90+ when hes the only db ive seen stop brandon jacobs cold when they both ran at each other in the super bowl of all games and jacobs has a awesome trucking so why no awesome hit power for him, when most lb's cant stop him head on but he did yethe dosent even have the higest hit power on his own team, and even darius butler hits harder than chung, chung cant even hit that hard compared to these guys so why does he have higher that then when he wasnt even that good as a rookie last year?

# 14 Piccaso @ 08/23/10 04:57 PM

I think Madden ratings are a little off i was looking at TE's and Vernon Davis is the Third best TE now i looked at the ratings and he's 24th in catching, 43 in route running and, 36 in Catching in traffic, i thought that to be a little odd when a 68 overall rating TE has better route running than the 3 best TE in the game really doesnt makes sense when the guy had more TD's than any other TE, the guy had less catches but more yards than T. Gonzalez, and less catches than J. Witten but more td's, So why inst he the best on game? this is crazy

# 15 Gotmadskillzson @ 08/23/10 05:43 PM

EA sports games ratings are always off......It is as though the guys that be on tv the most get inflated ratings, where as guys they rarely see play on tv get very low ratings. It is the same way in their NCAA football games. Big name schools, players are rated to cloud 99. Where as smaller conference schools get rock bottom ratings.

# 16 MCNABB51BOI @ 08/23/10 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piccaso


	I think Madden ratings are a little off i was looking at TE's and Vernon Davis is the Third best TE now i looked at the ratings and he's 24th in catching, 43 in route running and, 36 in Catching in traffic, i thought that to be a little odd when a 68 overall rating TE has better route running than the 3 best TE in the game really doesnt makes sense when the guy had more TD's than any other TE, the guy had less catches but more yards than T. Gonzalez, and less catches than J. Witten but more td's, So why inst he the best on game? this is crazy

just beacuse he had decent numbers doesnt mean he can run routes and catchs as good as a dallas clark or tony gonzo

this is a good read if the hit stick worked as advertised this year if a WR runs a post you time up the hit i have yet to see a ball jarred loose not 1 it doesnt work .

# 17 teewee @ 08/23/10 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef


	Saints with no hit-stickers!? Ouch.. Where's Vilma at least? I sort of miss the easier hit stick tackles.. Me and my buddies would always cringe and/or go nuts when we connected or got handed a hit-stick smack down. I understand they are trying to make it more risk/reward but I also like to have fun. Defense just feels a little blah. Still loving the game though.

you can not have a affective hit stick without cheeser's doing it every play causing fumbles.

# 18 AntRWill @ 08/23/10 10:44 PM

Linebackers and safeties have the higher hit stick ratings because we get to see more of the big hits in the open field resulting in highlights as opposed to in the trenches with the big guys.

# 19 mattsama18 @ 08/24/10 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	I don't understand how Dlineman don't have the highest hit power. Bigger people hit harder than smaller people; I mean that's just good ole common sense. Maybe it's because Dlineman usually aren't in position to deliver knock blows to WRs coming across the middle like LBs and Safeties.

Hit Power rating is based solely on how hard a player KNOWS how to hit. Linebackers and safeties should have a higher hit power rating because in order to get those shoulder-barging hit sticks requires excellent tackling technique as opposed to just grabbing someone. So in essence the hit power rating is more of a "skill" rating than a "strength" rating

# 20 Dog @ 08/24/10 03:44 AM

great read. i like how the hit stick is more of a risk reward this year. i just wish hitsticks would cause more injuries if there are not as common

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