NBA 2K16 News Post

Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang

09:37 AM - August 11, 2015 by Steve_OS

Mike Wang, Gameplay Director for NBA 2K16 mentioned on Twitter that green releases are much rarer in NBA 2K16 and they will no longer be 100%.

He also mentions the following (in post #22):

Quote:


	There have been battles even internally over missed green releases, especially now that they're so hard to get. I really think it's an unsolvable problem. The best news I can give you is that our shots engineer has made just about every knob I use to tune shooting modifiable on the server side post release just like a roster update. So if there's something the community isn't happy with I can tweak the system and update your games without the need for a patch. So what happened with patch 4 last year will never happen again.

UPDATE: Mike has chimed in on this topic with more details, to clear up any confusion (post #211)

Quote:


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

He also added this on Twitter...

Quote:


	New Shot Meter option for #NBA2K16 called "Feedback Only." Meter won't draw while shooting, only after release to show how close you were.

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Member Comments

# 181 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	But then that takes out any skill in shooting. Any random could pick up the game and start holstering up threes without any knowledge of his form or release and make them. That's a problem.

It doesn't you still would have to have a good release and an open shot to maximize your chances of success.

# 182 stillfeelme @ 08/12/15 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	Most logical sense? How many players are notorious for making contested shots? Kobe Bryant for example, especially with his turnaround fade. You really think he makes only 12.5% of his shots?

His numbers don't make sense because he is trying to use a catch all shooting mechanic to knockdown the whole league. That is not a good idea.

Here is Steph Curry stats from regular season:

When he is Very Tight contested 0-2 ft a defender is guarding him

Jump shot 2's he shot 11-30 for 36.7%
3's he shot 3-20 15%

When he is tightly contest 2-4 away from a defender
Jump shot 2's he shot 46 - 106 43.4%
3's he shot 73- 167 43.7%

When he is open 4-6 nearest defender

Jump shot 2's 54-125 43.2%
3's he shot 112-245 45.7%

Looking at this you can tell Curry doesn't take that many very tightly contested shots but when he does he didn't make that many of them. Also being 2ft away from Curry is basically like an open shot

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/20193...PerMode=Totals

# 183 Jhawkfootball06 @ 08/12/15 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillfeelme


	His numbers don't make sense because he is trying to use a catch all shooting mechanic to knockdown the whole league. That is not a good idea. Here is Steph Curry stats from regular season: When he is Very Tight contested 0-2 ft a defender is guarding him Jump shot 2's he shot 11-30 for 36.7% 3's he shot 3-20 15% When he is tightly contest 2-4 away from a defender Jump shot 2's he shot 46 - 106 43.4% 3's he shot 73- 167 43.7% When he is open 4-6 nearest defender Jump shot 2's 54-125 43.2% 3's he shot 112-245 45.7% Looking at this you can tell Curry doesn't take that many very tightly contested shots but when he does he didn't make that many of them. Also being 2ft away from Curry is basically like an open shot http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/20193...PerMode=Totals

Maybe I'm missing something but that stats you provided did not match the source. Also it would have been easier to view if you just posted a picture.

# 184 stillfeelme @ 08/12/15 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawkfootball06


	Maybe I'm missing something but that stats you provided did not match the source. Also it would have been easier to view if you just posted a picture.

I didn't feel like grabbing a picture but I clicked the link and it took me to the right location you are looking at the wrong row of stats

You should be looking at closest defender for shots greater than 10ft. Like I said before. Curry is not shooting a bunch of highly contested shots. They are not smart shots. If someone is that close he is usually blowing by you with the handle. He creates space off the dribble and has that quick release.

Edit added Kobe for comparison

# 185 24ct @ 08/12/15 02:32 PM

Ppl saying it's just so easy to play defense are not taking into account your player slides ALL over the place with max defender. Especially when guys side to side or dribble until they see they've 'crossed you' from some animation that has nothing to do with your actual movements.

Defense is a mess.

# 186 hesko @ 08/12/15 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24ct


	Ppl saying it's just so easy to play defense are not taking into account your player slides ALL over the place with max defender. Especially when guys side to side or dribble until they see they've 'crossed you' from some animation that has nothing to do with your actual movements. Defense is a mess.

i hope they can figure out a way to fix this for future installments. making all the players seem like they are apart of a world that has weight and gravity. the way a player turns in certain situations, etc

# 187 ruLEX$$ @ 08/12/15 07:13 PM

i hear alot of people complaining about the shot meter. Personally I dont find anything wrong with green releases going in all the time, its the closest thing that ive seen that actually makes it feel like shots are player controlled which is a great tool. no im not 1 of those guys dropping 70-90 points in the rec and i will never play with a demi. Only thing thats wrong with the shot meter is it shouldnt just reflect shot timing it should also depend on how well you are defended and floor spacing, also the type of shot you are taking.

Another complaint im always hearing is that dribble moves are to overpowered giving the shooter too much of an advantage. IMO that too is false, i know alot feel the defense is broken well im not one of them. Dont get me wrong i believe the D should be fine tuned but it works. I actually take pride in my ability to play incredible lock down Defense. ive only witnessed a small percentage that can play great D on 2K but i know they took the time to master the controls and not complain. Of course shots will be made you cant stop everything. In the NBA great Offense will always trump great defense bc the offense is on the attack

i suggest Everyone complaining all the time to just learn the controls and practice practice practice...

in the the league its the players who take time over the summer to train with certain ability coaches like post , shooting , dribbling, and strength trainers that elevate their game every year. So if someone takes the time to learn certain dribble moves, and timing of shots, and where certain shots fall easier because you are a right handed or left handed shooter they should not be penalized. To me its not cheese its called being a gym rat and learning how to manipulate animation to work for you,
COMPLAINERS JUST LEARN HOW TO PLAY

# 188 Beluba @ 08/12/15 09:11 PM

Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway...

I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots.

For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots.

Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want.

Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

# 189 nova91 @ 08/12/15 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

This is all great news, especially the part about tuning online/offline separately. But, somehow, I feel that people will still be up in arms about something.

# 190 amedawg00 @ 08/12/15 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway... I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots. For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots. Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally. And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want. Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

Thanks for lowering everyone's blood pressure and tamping down the hysteria mike[emoji3] . The emphasis on shot quality and good shot selection is what I took from your post and was music to my ears. My only concern is what I didn't hear; namely that ratings still are taking a back seat to timing and shot selection. Can you please elaborate on how ratings factor into the perfect release equation if at all?

# 191 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 10:03 PM

The problem is the system feels arbitrary. This game is meant to appeal to the masses even though its heart is sim. The tweaks sound like the system that was in 2k15 pre patch and a lot of people were unsatisfied then and I predict they will be again. I think it would be easier to at least say the shooting percentages are based off of the players real shooting percentages first. This will make the missed green shots easier to swallow. If not it just feels like the game's shooting mechanic 's are unreliable. That's never good especially since its color coded and graded'. At the end of the day it's still a game and those unreliable signals will never sit well with the masses. Making green's rarer but lowering the success rate seems backwards.

# 192 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedream2k16


	its a simulation game at heart. The masses will need to play on low difficulty levels to suit their needs. Casuals and kids had their green release excessive 3pt party on 2k15, now its simulation ball for 16

Unfortunately this isn't reality. The Majority of 2K consumers are casual to midcore gamers. Also in no way i'm I suggesting that greens should be automatic. I also hope the CPU's AI shooting percentages on the higher difficulties are also lowered and balanced to make it fair.

# 193 MoneyOvaHuds @ 08/12/15 10:16 PM

Just my IMO idk how the shot meter is a valuable tool when nobody asked for it and it was cool just the way it was

# 194 Jrocc23 @ 08/12/15 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyOvaHuds


	Just my IMO idk how the shot meter is a valuable tool when nobody asked for it and it was cool just the way it was

Wasn't it always kind of a meter though, but maybe it just wasn't as visual?

I liked it the way it was, but you was still able to get perfect release but it caused you to look more at the release instead of a meter which I don't really like. Also, don't like it's rare to get perfect releases but in the past it was kind of simple but that was just the release. If you were contested or etc, it'll be off.

# 195 I Djm @ 08/12/15 10:46 PM

People still gonna find a way to exploit tho.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

# 196 Beluba @ 08/12/15 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedawg00


	Thanks for lowering everyone's blood pressure and tamping down the hysteria mike[emoji3] . The emphasis on shot quality and good shot selection is what I took from your post and was music to my ears. My only concern is what I didn't hear; namely that ratings still are taking a back seat to timing and shot selection. Can you please elaborate on how ratings factor into the perfect release equation if at all?

I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year.

Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

# 197 jbthegreat @ 08/12/15 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year. Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

I figured the bonuses were effecting the ratings too much. Good luck Mike as a fellow game designer I understand how hard balancing game mechanic's can be. Keep up the good work.

# 198 BluFu @ 08/12/15 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year. Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

Music to my ears Mike

# 199 mostpured @ 08/12/15 11:28 PM

For people who don't like the shot meter and disable it, will there be something to indicate after the release to know how far/ close the timing was to excellent? The current slightly late/ slightly early is too vague.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

# 200 amedawg00 @ 08/12/15 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year. Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

Can't tell you how much it means for the community to have this level of access and interaction with the individuals that create this masterpiece year in year out.

I had more 60%+ shooting while playing 12 min hof sim games on 15 than the previous 10 iterations combined. The pendulum swung from what was once a brutal grindfest where both open and contested shots hardly fell; largely the result of "glitched" shots which saw the majority of players unable to achieve a perfect release; to a game where every player regardless of rating was a threat from mid and 3 post patch 4; largely the result of the fix for the aforementioned "glitched" shots coupled with the open bonuses that resulted in unrealistically sky high shooting percentages for skilled users even on the highest difficultly.

2k15 was truly a jekyll and Hyde experience in the sense that the game played wildly differently pre and post patch 4. I was thrilled to hear the shot engineers have now made it possible to fine tune these issues without patches going forward!

Overall, it sounds to me as if the ability to strategize on defense with the deep settings based on the opponents personnel (who to gap, tight, deny, etc) and impacting the game if applied correctly will be well represented in 16. All things considered 15 was still the best gameplay user v user since 2k11 imo. With all due respect to total and complete masterpiece of a franchise that is 2k, it will always be the stellar gameplay that continues to evolve with each iteration that keeps the replay value infinite for me at least. Anyways, thanks for the clarification. I eagerly await the chess match of offensive and defensive strategies matching wits again in 16.

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Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang