The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season [Archive] - Page 6

TroyF

03-01-2010, 06:19 PM

I do agree, however (and i think that´s mainly what TroF is aiming at): it has been proven time and time again that the Lakers have big, big trouble guarding quick PGs.
The problem will be to exploit that while still keeping Billups and Smith on the court which will be near impossible. Heck, even playing just Lawson and Billups at the same time is near impossible as long as the Lakers play PG/Bryant/Artest/Gasol(Odom)/Bynum(Gasol).

Basically he´ll be a backup to Billups who´ll likely play 36-40 minutes.

Want to know my point?

Well, here are Lawson's first two games against the Lakers:

Game 1 - 22 minutes, 4-7 from the floor, 4-4 on FT, 1 rebound, 6 assists, 0 turnovers, 13 points. +7

Game 2 - 19 minutes, 5-6 from the floor, 2-2 on FT, 1 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover, 13 points. +8

Here is yesterday.

Game 3 - (yesterday), 6 minutes, 1-3 from the floor, 4-4 on FT, 0 rebounds or assists (2 passes ended up in foul shots), +2

Anthony Carter yesterday - 7 minutes, 1-2, 2 points, 1 board, 1 assist, 2 points. -7

Anthony Carter in the Lakers series last year - -7, -2, -7, -2, -3, +1

Ty has yet to have a game where he came in vs. the Lakers and the team lost points. Anthony Carter has one game in over two years where he came in and the Nuggets didn't lose points. You think that -7 put up by Anthony Carter didn't have a huge impact yesterday? This was a 6 point game that included an intentional foul that gave the Lakers 2 points. Roland ratings on the year for both (Lawson +3.1, Carter -9.7)

You think that Melo fouling out wasn't a huge component of the game, Chief? The Nuggets didn't score a point with him off the floor over the final two and a half minutes. Kobe may have been mugged on the play by JR, but he didn't get a cheap offensive foul called on him with the game on the line. (indeed, Kobe had 3 fouls called on him all game)

And Billups is no longer a 40 minute a game guy. He had to be last year and last night when a replacement level NBA player has to play for him. He actually averages under 34 minutes a game. I don't care if he steps off the court for 12 minutes, 8 minutes, or 4 minutes. . . the Nuggets are a vastly superior team when Ty Lawson is the guy replacing him than they are if it's Anthony Carter.

stevew

03-01-2010, 09:55 PM

Chief Rum

03-02-2010, 01:26 AM

Want to know my point?

Well, here are Lawson's first two games against the Lakers:

Game 1 - 22 minutes, 4-7 from the floor, 4-4 on FT, 1 rebound, 6 assists, 0 turnovers, 13 points. +7

Game 2 - 19 minutes, 5-6 from the floor, 2-2 on FT, 1 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover, 13 points. +8

Here is yesterday.

Game 3 - (yesterday), 6 minutes, 1-3 from the floor, 4-4 on FT, 0 rebounds or assists (2 passes ended up in foul shots), +2

Anthony Carter yesterday - 7 minutes, 1-2, 2 points, 1 board, 1 assist, 2 points. -7

Anthony Carter in the Lakers series last year - -7, -2, -7, -2, -3, +1

Ty has yet to have a game where he came in vs. the Lakers and the team lost points. Anthony Carter has one game in over two years where he came in and the Nuggets didn't lose points. You think that -7 put up by Anthony Carter didn't have a huge impact yesterday? This was a 6 point game that included an intentional foul that gave the Lakers 2 points. Roland ratings on the year for both (Lawson +3.1, Carter -9.7)

You think that Melo fouling out wasn't a huge component of the game, Chief? The Nuggets didn't score a point with him off the floor over the final two and a half minutes. Kobe may have been mugged on the play by JR, but he didn't get a cheap offensive foul called on him with the game on the line. (indeed, Kobe had 3 fouls called on him all game)

And Billups is no longer a 40 minute a game guy. He had to be last year and last night when a replacement level NBA player has to play for him. He actually averages under 34 minutes a game. I don't care if he steps off the court for 12 minutes, 8 minutes, or 4 minutes. . . the Nuggets are a vastly superior team when Ty Lawson is the guy replacing him than they are if it's Anthony Carter.

Re: Lawson, seems than your issue isn't so much the greatness of Lawson, but the crapitude that is Carter.

As for Melo, I certainly know that he has the most impact for the Nuggets of any player when on the floor, but one offensive foul, poor call or not, isn't the make or break of a game. It takes six fouls to foul out. You telling me he didn't deserve the other five neither? And he shot 7-19 from the field yesterday, with Artest harassing him. The Nuggets may not have done much without him on the court, but seems to me they weren't doing much, at least in the second half, with him on the court either.

MrBug708

03-02-2010, 05:11 PM

Lebron is going to change his number because he wants to honor what MJ has done for the game?

Right

whomario

03-02-2010, 05:57 PM

without Shaq we will be in really big troubles during the playoffs. I think you can get but with some combo of hickson/powe/Andy/Z and win the home court. But you gotta have Shaq's fat ass in the paint to beat Boston, Orlando, the lakers and probably the nuggets.

He is likely going to be back for the 2nd round of Playoffs and while with advancing age it might be more difficult to fit right in, but his basketball IQ is high enough to make that adjustment i´d say.

But yeah, if he doesn´t get back in time or doesn´t fit back in than this is a blow.

For the regular season i see no problem at all here, don´t see them loosing many games because of this.

Dallas won their 8th in a row yesterday and took over 2nd place from the Nuggets (lost against Phoenix).
Home court wide open after the Lakers still.

As far as the playoff race : Now 4/4.5 games between No8 Portland and Houston/New Orleans/Memphis

For Dallas it will be interesting to see if they´ll be even better with Dampier back. In theory they should, because him and Haywood are very similar players and they played great with him on the court. That combination could be a load in the playoffs, having the ability to play a double/double 7 footer next to Nowitzki at all times basically.

Speaking of Nowitzki : 27/13 yesterday, great run for him.

For Phoenix the bench came through and not just against Denver´s bench. Dragic and Frye were amazing.
It took 5 years, but the Suns finally have a good backup for Nash ...
They are still playing without Barbosa as well (and when he played, he still struggled with that wrist injury for a long time) , that will be interesting how he fits back in as they normally can´t drop anyone from their current 9 man rotation really.

Batum another good scoring game, 21 against the Grizzlies :)

TroyF

03-03-2010, 10:18 PM

Re: Lawson, seems than your issue isn't so much the greatness of Lawson, but the crapitude that is Carter.

As for Melo, I certainly know that he has the most impact for the Nuggets of any player when on the floor, but one offensive foul, poor call or not, isn't the make or break of a game. It takes six fouls to foul out. You telling me he didn't deserve the other five neither? And he shot 7-19 from the field yesterday, with Artest harassing him. The Nuggets may not have done much without him on the court, but seems to me they weren't doing much, at least in the second half, with him on the court either.

It's a combination. Lawson is a damned good basketball player, and AC is a damned horrible one. You can't underestimate how huge that switch is.

Nuggets may not have been doing much with him, but they were screwed without him. And he had one other offensive foul call that was garbage. Both teams got away with multiple fouls, so that evened out.

Some thoughts from the Nuggets/OKC game tonight:

I know OKC was off a back to back, but they were horrible. (as I'm typing this, the Nuggets are up 106-66 and OKC has been outscored 45-14 in the second half)

Carmelo owned Jeff Green. Toyed with him all night. 30, 8, 5 in 28 minutes.

Ibaka rebounded well and was active, but I still just don't like what I see. It's one game, so nothing big there. I could still be wrong on him.

As bad as OKC looked, the Nuggets looked determined to prove something from the opening tip. Rotations were good, ball movement was terrific, energy was up. They really needed the night off to regroup after the 4 game in 5 night stretch.

The Nuggets just got through a stretch where they played 11 of 16 games against teams with a .600+ winning percentage. (and two other games in the time frame were against the .586 Spurs. Three bunnies in over a month)

After tonight, they won't play an elite team in any of their next ten games. 14 of their last 21 games will be against average or below average competition. I'm just happy they stayed above ground. Things are set up for them to get the two seed if they can have some semblance of health down the stretch.

whomario

03-04-2010, 03:07 AM

What does "not like what i see" mean ? What do you expect him to do ? :confused:
He´s a solid rotation player on a good team as a rookie who was the 24th pick.
No one expects him to become an All Star or something.

Thunder had a horendous 3rd quarter, that things happen with young teams.

TroyF

03-04-2010, 08:59 AM

What does it mean? What it means when you look and rate any player. You judge them based off of how good you think they look. I understand he's young and I understand he's put up decent numbers. Maybe I'm being too hard on him and maybe I'm 100% wrong about him. . . but I don't really like a lot about what I see right now. He's a bad defensive player right now. No, not average, bad. He overreacts to everything, has zero strength to match up with more physical players and gets beat off the dribble at will. OKC should be putting him on weaker offensive players and having him play a Camby/Birdman type of role where he can fly around. On offense, he can be pushed off the blocks easily by bigger guys. He also can get really frustrated and do some dumb things. (last night him and Carmelo were shoving a bit under the basket, Melo beats him for the board, Ibaka screams at the ref and can be heard saying "you haven't done anything" to Carmelo Anthony, the guy who just boxed him out and had torn their team up all game. He put up a ton of numbers vs. Malik Allen in the fourth quarter.

My personal opinion is that the Thunder have two wildly overrated players on their roster. Jeff Green and Ibaka. I've seen Green more and am very comfortable with what I think of him. Ibaka hasn't impressed me, but I can at least see why people think he could be a solid player when he develops. (I don't agree, but I'm certainly not right all the time)

I'm also not bashing the Thunder for a bad game. But boy, was it bad. It looked like the starting unit quit in the third quarter. To Ibaka's credit, the second string and below worked their asses off, even in the fourth quarter of a game already decided.

Cuckoo

03-04-2010, 09:22 AM

I have to hope it was just a perfect storm last night, a back to back off a game that was tougher than they thought it'd be and on the road against a Denver team not too happy about dropping a spot in the standings.

Before this game, they had the best record in the NBA since January 1st, I think, so as horrible as this was, they have to not let it get in their heads. Next three are winnable games, and I sure hope this doesn't become a mental setback because boy was it bad.

MikeVic

03-04-2010, 10:08 AM

Lebron is going to change his number because he wants to honor what MJ has done for the game?

Right

:confused: Didn't he come out last year and say everyone should change from #23, or was that Wade or something?

In other news (not sure if it's been posted):
Thabeet seeks boost from D-League stay - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-thabeetdleague030310&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

TroyF

03-04-2010, 10:12 AM

cuckoo,

Don't worry about it. They'll be fine. It was a perfect storm. The Nuggets were pissed off to lose two in a row. They are a very good home team. They were also looking for revenge on the Thunder for the loss in OKC. Melo had an extra bounce in his step last night as well. I'm sure the Durant/Melo debate had something to do with that.

OKC is so young they haven't had a lot of quality NBA teams come gunning for them. Last night they had one.

One other thing. . . the Nuggets shifted their philosophy on Durant last night. In that, they exposed his biggest weakness. They simply layed off Westbrook, Green and any of the other outside shooters. Instead they went after him with hard doubles and triples. They switched off on him constantly. One second he'd have Afflalo in his face, the next Kenyon Martin, the next Nene and so forth. He clearly was uncomfortable with the switching and struggled to get free for open looks. (of his 9 trips to the line, 6 were on touch fouls off of three point attempts, he simply couldn't attack the basket last night)

Despite the doubles coming all night long, he had zero assists. Now, this isn't a bad thing for OKC. That's exactly what he's going to see in the playoffs. (and I fully expect it will become a first round exit this year) But it will get him ready for next year and expose him to how NBA teams will deal with him in the future. He'll work on it in the offseason and be even better next year.

stevew

03-04-2010, 04:16 PM

Lebron is going to change his number because he wants to honor what MJ has done for the game?

Right

The move only applies if he stays in Cleveland anyways.

whomario

03-05-2010, 09:51 AM

@ TroF : That´s fair. Although i still disagree on Ibaka ;) Solid player is basically guaranteed, if he isn´t one allready.

Jason Terry going to miss games with a facial injury courtesy of Corey Brewer´s ellbow ... Don´t think it will derail them all that much with Barea and als Rodrigue Beaubois having allready shown they can step in as bench scorers. The latter had a nice performance in said Minnesota game when Kidd was out, 17 points and 4 assists in 28 minutes.

Total random observation : Shane Battier is so wasted on this Rockets team...
Such an amazing defender playing with a bunch of terrible ones without a defensive system...
He should be playing for championships in a Bruce Bowen roles (minus the cheap shots :) ) right about now in his career, allready 32.

Greg Oden has hinted at returning this season btw, not sure i agree with that train of thought, although it certainly would make for a nice story ...

Subby

03-05-2010, 10:20 AM

Congrats to longtime FOFC and former FOBL/FOFL owner TheDawgsAreOut (aka Kevin Pelton) for getting a consulting gig for the Indiana Pacers.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=966

Given my discussion of teams hiring APBRmetricians, it is with no shortage of irony that I note that I am now among them. Recently, I have been working with the Indiana Pacers. The Pacers front office has been gracious in allowing me to continue to write for Basketball Prospectus while doing some consulting for them, so for the most part you the reader will not see any impact. The exception is that, for obvious reasons, I want to avoid writing about Indiana. Bradford, who already wrote the Pacers chapter in Pro Basketball Prospectus 2009-10, should help fill in any gaps.

RainMaker

03-05-2010, 10:22 AM

Saw the Grizzlies beat the Bulls last night. A game the Bulls really should have won as they were up 17 early and had the Grizz on the end of back to back games. Not having Noah kills them on the boards.

Randolph is a beast and they just couldn't stop him all night. Really surprised at how his game has developed. He has stopped taking bad shots for the most part and is just focusing on dominating in the post.

And if Thabeet couldn't beat out Hamed Haddadi for minutes, he truly sucks.

TroyF

03-05-2010, 10:43 AM

Battier is wasted on the Rockets. Can you imagine if he played on the Cavs or Lakers? They'd be talking about him as a DPOY candidate.

Suns ran into the 4th in 5 nights syndrome last night. They just ran out of gas in the fourth quarter.

Dallas is going to battle Denver for the 2 seed all the way to the final days of the season.

Chief Rum

03-05-2010, 11:54 AM

@ TroF : That´s fair. Although i still disagree on Ibaka ;) Solid player is basically guaranteed, if he isn´t one allready.

You know, it's funny. I didn't watch the game, and there's always much more to what's going on then stats. But I have to admit I read Troy's take on Ibaka and assumed the guy's stats would absolutely blow.

Then I look at the box score... 15 pts, 13 boards, .500 plus shooting, a block and a steal, I think 1 or 2 TOs.

Hmm, that doesn't seem so bad. I mean, he must absolutely stink at the non-box score stuff to deserve the ripping Troy gave him if he was doing that besides.

Of course, Gooden puts up those sorts of numbers, too...

TroyF

03-05-2010, 12:45 PM

Chief,

11 points and 7 rebounds came in the fourth quarter against a Nuggets lineup of Anthony Carter, JR Smith, Renaldo Balkman, Malik Allen and Johan Petro.

His numbers in quarters 1 through 3:

2-7 shooting, 4 points, 6 boards, 15 minutes.

This doesn't count how poor he was defensively. In a Camby type role, I guess he could be effective. Instead he was trying to D up Nene man to man and it was comical. He also looked lost on the perimeter.

His pure athleticism and Krstic and Green's sucking make him look better on defense than he really is. On offense? The guy is good for a few put backs, a 15 footer here or there and not much else. He actually has a negative passer rating. His hands rating? It stands at 2.2 this year. Thabeet is 2.8. Ben Wallace is a 9 for some comparison.

So when I look at his game, my eyes see a guy that is horrible on offense and mediocre on defense. When I look at his advanced stats, I see a guy who can't pass or hold onto the ball, a guy who loses his head to head matchup 60% of the time, and a guy who has a -4.8 roland rating. I looked up his standard +/- for the last five games. -12, -11, -1 (in a 20 point win for the team), +4, -7. So he's certainly not helping his team win games, they are winning in spite of him.

I know what whomario likes about him. He has +++ athleticism. He can hit the 15 foot shot if he's wide open. He makes one defensive play a quarter that gets you out of your seat. (and causes most people to miss the six plays he sucks at) He can run the floor like a deer.

I saw a wonderful athlete the other night. I didn't see a good basketball player. Again, maybe I'm wrong. I can tell you he'll need to get MUCH stronger to hang out with the big boys, he has a ridiculous amount of work to do to be anything more than a role player in any offense and he simply has to get better on defense. . . because that's where his future lies IMO.

Again, maybe I'm judging him too harshly. He is just 20 and he has time to develop. But right now, I just don't get what all the buzz is about as of now. We'll revisit this in a few years. :)

whomario

03-05-2010, 12:47 PM

Hmm, that doesn't seem so bad. I mean, he must absolutely stink at the non-box score stuff .

There´s the "funny" thing : In almsot all the games (about 9 or 10) i saw he was better than the box score indicates, which is also basically the universal take on him around the web. He plays a lot of minutes with almost exclusively 2nd stringers, gets little to no time next to Krstic forcing him to act as the Center on defense, also little time with Westbrook. That hurts his RR and +- (he also plays a ton of minutes with Green)
Not a finished product, far from it. But gets better almost weekly and the jump he made from over here in Europe was massive, so for a 20 year old rookie big man the non-boxscore stuff is more than allright ...

MikeVic

03-05-2010, 12:49 PM

What's a Roland rating?

Chief Rum

03-05-2010, 01:12 PM

Again, maybe I'm judging him too harshly. He is just 20 and he has time to develop. But right now, I just don't get what all the buzz is about as of now. We'll revisit this in a few years. :)

I think it's way too soon to pass judgment on him, and your sample size here is also way too small. Just as an uninvested observer--I don't know Ibaka from anyone (I guess I'll get to see him against the Clips tonight).

Just like with Lawson in the opposite way. Sample size way too small. It's too soon to tear Ibaka down and too soon to make Lawson a star.

whomario

03-05-2010, 01:24 PM

What's a Roland rating?

an attempt at measuring a players impact on his own team by the folks at 82 games (i think they came up with it, at least they used it), actually now has been expanded and renamed "simple rating", factors in the +- numbers of a team with a player and without a player, now also a players PER and his opponents PER (which can be put off be cross-matchups and doesn´t factor in switching)

another thing @ TroyF : What is "all the buzz" ? You make it sound like everybody is labeling him the next Ben Wallace or Hakeem or sth :confused:

TroyF

03-05-2010, 01:58 PM

I think it's way too soon to pass judgment on him, and your sample size here is also way too small. Just as an uninvested observer--I don't know Ibaka from anyone (I guess I'll get to see him against the Clips tonight).

Just like with Lawson in the opposite way. Sample size way too small. It's too soon to tear Ibaka down and too soon to make Lawson a star.

I trust my eyes first.
Then I use basic numbers.
Then I use advanced numbers.

Now, if my eyes tell me a guy isn't that good, I try to go deeper. What am "I" missing? Are the other numbers good or not? In the case of Ibaka, the basic numbers made him look fairly good. Moving on to the advanced numbers it verified what my eyes told me was happening, so I make a judgment on where someone is at the current time.

Then I move to potential. What does he need to work on to be a good player and how easy is it to accomplish? His hands and passer rating are ugly for any rotation player. I think he needs to take a MONUMENTAL leap forward to be an even average offensive player. On defense, he's physically weak right now. He also doesn't appear to me to have a high IQ, which is mandatory for a top of the line NBA defensive player. (Carmelo's IQ on the defensive side of the ball is about a -5. He'll hustle on defense, but he'll never be a good defensive player)

So I look at the likelihood he'll be able to use that athleticism to develop anything. What do I get when I add it all up? A guy who really needs to take some leaps to be good.

Using the same stuff on Ty. . . my eyes tell me the Nuggets are a damned good team with him in the lineup. The basic numbers back that up. The advanced statistics show someone better than even the eyes or basic stats show. His hands and passing ratings are better than Tony Parker or Derek Rose. He wins his matchup 60% of the time. He's fourth on the team in roland rating. He hits 54% of his jump shots. His foul drawing percentage is off the charts good for someone his age.

David Thorpe studies tape and rates rookies. He currently has Ty as the third best rookie behind Evans and Curry. But when you read his tidbits, you really find out what he thinks of him.

This was his last blurb about Lawson:

How many times has a backup point guard averaged double figures in scoring while shooting 66 percent from the field and 50 percent on 3s? And with a better than 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio? Well, that's what Lawson is doing this month. Even if you factor in his January numbers, he's averaging over 10 points and shooting better than 50 percent from the field. Backup point guards, or rookie guards for that matter, just don't do that while still keeping their assist-to-turnover ratio at better than 2-to-1. Lawson has a game that is mature for his age, and he totally gets the bigger picture in Denver. The Nuggets are playing for a chance at a ring, so all personal agendas must be set aside. He's having no issues doing that.

I have full confidence Ty will be a star in this league. Not just a good player, but a flat out star. He's also monumentally important to Denver's playoff hopes.

Ibaka? Not so much.

You can challenge my thoughts, but I can assure you they are well thought out and not just with a Denver bias. I'm on record as saying OKC will win a title within the next five years. (I haven't said that about the Nuggets) I don't have a bias against Ibaka at all, I just don't think he's a good player right now.

TroyF

03-05-2010, 02:01 PM

an attempt at measuring a players impact on his own team by the folks at 82 games (i think they came up with it, at least they used it), actually now has been expanded and renamed "simple rating", factors in the +- numbers of a team with a player and without a player, now also a players PER and his opponents PER (which can be put off be cross-matchups and doesn´t factor in switching)

another thing @ TroyF : What is "all the buzz" ? You make it sound like everybody is labeling him the next Ben Wallace or Hakeem or sth :confused:

Maybe I read too many NBA boards whomario. Some OKC fans think he's the second coming. Some fans on my nuggets boards are in love with him too.

Chief Rum

03-05-2010, 03:25 PM

I trust my eyes first.
Then I use basic numbers.
Then I use advanced numbers.

Now, if my eyes tell me a guy isn't that good, I try to go deeper. What am "I" missing? Are the other numbers good or not? In the case of Ibaka, the basic numbers made him look fairly good. Moving on to the advanced numbers it verified what my eyes told me was happening, so I make a judgment on where someone is at the current time.

Then I move to potential. What does he need to work on to be a good player and how easy is it to accomplish? His hands and passer rating are ugly for any rotation player. I think he needs to take a MONUMENTAL leap forward to be an even average offensive player. On defense, he's physically weak right now. He also doesn't appear to me to have a high IQ, which is mandatory for a top of the line NBA defensive player. (Carmelo's IQ on the defensive side of the ball is about a -5. He'll hustle on defense, but he'll never be a good defensive player)

So I look at the likelihood he'll be able to use that athleticism to develop anything. What do I get when I add it all up? A guy who really needs to take some leaps to be good.

Using the same stuff on Ty. . . my eyes tell me the Nuggets are a damned good team with him in the lineup. The basic numbers back that up. The advanced statistics show someone better than even the eyes or basic stats show. His hands and passing ratings are better than Tony Parker or Derek Rose. He wins his matchup 60% of the time. He's fourth on the team in roland rating. He hits 54% of his jump shots. His foul drawing percentage is off the charts good for someone his age.

David Thorpe studies tape and rates rookies. He currently has Ty as the third best rookie behind Evans and Curry. But when you read his tidbits, you really find out what he thinks of him.

This was his last blurb about Lawson:

How many times has a backup point guard averaged double figures in scoring while shooting 66 percent from the field and 50 percent on 3s? And with a better than 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio? Well, that's what Lawson is doing this month. Even if you factor in his January numbers, he's averaging over 10 points and shooting better than 50 percent from the field. Backup point guards, or rookie guards for that matter, just don't do that while still keeping their assist-to-turnover ratio at better than 2-to-1. Lawson has a game that is mature for his age, and he totally gets the bigger picture in Denver. The Nuggets are playing for a chance at a ring, so all personal agendas must be set aside. He's having no issues doing that.

I have full confidence Ty will be a star in this league. Not just a good player, but a flat out star. He's also monumentally important to Denver's playoff hopes.

Ibaka? Not so much.

You can challenge my thoughts, but I can assure you they are well thought out and not just with a Denver bias. I'm on record as saying OKC will win a title within the next five years. (I haven't said that about the Nuggets) I don't have a bias against Ibaka at all, I just don't think he's a good player right now.

My challenge on your thoughts on Ibaka and Lawson are not invalidated by any of the above.

Fact is, they haven't played enough for us to know. Nothing to be done about that except allow time to pass and we'll see.

You may be proven right. I don't doubt that you have seen what you have seen or the stats you put up. But we're just into the fourth month of the careers of these two, and neither are even starters.

Sorry, Troy, you don't need me to tell you this. You know we don't know enough yet for true statisitcal validity. Will these numbers hold up against first teamers? Will these numbers holdup with greater minutes? Will these numbers hold up over time?

It's too soon to be making definitive statements about any rookies in the league, not with respect to the long term in any case.

TroyF

03-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Chief,

I'm sorry. I have to challenge you back. What else do you have other than what they do on the court to base them on? Hell, how do you draft someone?

You base it off what you see, what they need to work and and what their production level was in college/Europe/High School.

You make judgments off of that. I think everyone over the age of four understands that it doesn't mean you are right 100% of the time. (hell, teams won't even be right on free agents most of the time, much less 21 and under players)

What I'm saying is my opinion. I'll stand by that opinion and if I'm wrong, we'll know soon enough. But don't tell me I can't judge things based off of a small sample size. I can sure as hell judge based off of that and all professional sports teams do this everyday.

The less you see, the more chance of you being wrong. I'll bet Lawson is a star based off of what I've seen. none of us can know for sure until he's been in there a few years, but I'm pretty damned certain I know where he's headed now.

Chief Rum

03-05-2010, 03:55 PM

TroyF

03-05-2010, 05:14 PM

You throw out all these stats and swear by them and then throw out statistical validity when it doesn't conform to your opinion? Fine then, Troy. You're right. Judge away.

Get back to me in a couple seasons when these kids are starting and when we know more.

I'm trying to figure out the anger here. I put a lot of thought into my opinions, right or wrong. I use both my eyes and stats to back up my thoughts. I explain why "I" think the way I do. It's up to others to interpret that however they see fit.

I think Blake Griffin and John Wall are going to be NBA stars and I haven't seen them play a single second of NBA basketball. I think most people had an idea Pedro Martinez was going to be a special player by his fourth Dodger relief appearance. Did anyone know if it would by terrific middle reliever great, closer great, All Star great, Cy Young great or Hall of Fame great? Of course not, but based off of what people saw with their eyes and what basic and advanced statistical analysis told them. They didn't need 2 full seasons before they knew he could pitch.

I don't assume that my opinion is the only one, that I'm always right, that a guy like Ibaka won't be able to change my assessment of him. I simply make the calls like I see them. In the cases of Ibaka and Lawson the advanced stats back up my assertions. I'm not cherry picking. I've said we'll wait a couple of years and see if I'm right. I've said Ibaka could make me change my mind, but when asked to explain why I had problems with him I gave what I thought was a fairly measured response.

I'm still baffled at why it's so wrong to rate how a young player is now and try and make a prediction on their future based off of that. We all do this everyday with players we see. There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion either. Example: I'm sure whomario will think differently about the list I have below (whomario is a guy I really respect when it comes to basketball evaluation even if he is wrong on Darko) :)

Other players I really like - Jerbaka, Evans, Curry (he's going to be special), Collison (a much better shot than I thought he had), Harden (struggling a little, but I like his overall game) Rodrigue Beaubois

Young guys I don't like that much - Ibaka, Flynn, Gerald Henderson (seriously, he went 6 spots ahead of Lawson. Good lord), Demarre Carrol.

Guys who I think are going to be a lot better in a couple of years - Thabeet, Jrue Holliday, Jodie Meeks

Guys who I just can't get a read on right now - Thornton, Casspi, Buddinger, Teague, Daye.

Chief Rum

03-05-2010, 05:38 PM

I'm trying to figure out the anger here. I put a lot of thought into my opinions, right or wrong. I use both my eyes and stats to back up my thoughts. I explain why "I" think the way I do. It's up to others to interpret that however they see fit.

I think Blake Griffin and John Wall are going to be NBA stars and I haven't seen them play a single second of NBA basketball. I think most people had an idea Pedro Martinez was going to be a special player by his fourth Dodger relief appearance. Did anyone know if it would by terrific middle reliever great, closer great, All Star great, Cy Young great or Hall of Fame great? Of course not, but based off of what people saw with their eyes and what basic and advanced statistical analysis told them. They didn't need 2 full seasons before they knew he could pitch.

I don't assume that my opinion is the only one, that I'm always right, that a guy like Ibaka won't be able to change my assessment of him. I simply make the calls like I see them. In the cases of Ibaka and Lawson the advanced stats back up my assertions. I'm not cherry picking. I've said we'll wait a couple of years and see if I'm right. I've said Ibaka could make me change my mind, but when asked to explain why I had problems with him I gave what I thought was a fairly measured response.

I'm still baffled at why it's so wrong to rate how a young player is now and try and make a prediction on their future based off of that. We all do this everyday with players we see. There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion either. Example: I'm sure whomario will think differently about the list I have below (whomario is a guy I really respect when it comes to basketball evaluation even if he is wrong on Darko) :)

Other players I really like - Jerbaka, Evans, Curry (he's going to be special), Collison (a much better shot than I thought he had), Harden (struggling a little, but I like his overall game) Rodrigue Beaubois

Young guys I don't like that much - Ibaka, Flynn, Gerald Henderson (seriously, he went 6 spots ahead of Lawson. Good lord), Demarre Carrol.

Guys who I think are going to be a lot better in a couple of years - Thabeet, Jrue Holliday, Jodie Meeks

Guys who I just can't get a read on right now - Thornton, Casspi, Buddinger, Teague, Daye.

Don't misread tone. Only one who might be angry here is you. Remember, you were the one telling me not to tell you can't judge. There's no anger on this end, just pointing out that the basis for your argument lacks statistical validity, especially given with how strongly you are espousing your opinions on the subject. You're not even qualifying them or allowing for them to be wrong.

There's a difference between guys like Griffin/Wall and Lawson/Ibaka. Griffin and Wall have pretty much been acknowledged far and wide by media, scouts, people in the biz, etc. as being legit stars in the making. Lawson and Ibaka are just two young guys who had some positive, some negative reviews prior to this season. There was no consensus on what they would do in the pros, like what people have said about Griffin and Wall.

I think my main problem with your stance is that you don't seem to even allow for the possibility that you could be wrong. When there is this little to support it, it's common to at least qualify it, "I could be wrong", or "from what I have seen so far, I think..." sorta thing. But it sounds like you're ready to go to Vegas and drop a dime on the future awesomeness of Lawson and the crapitude of Ibaka (were that possible).

I'm merely offering a more cautious opinion, as someone without a dog in the fight. I am not even saying you're wrong; I'm just saying you're jumping too conclusions too quickly. If you don't like that someone can have that opinion of your judgment, well, don't post it on the Internet then. ;)

TroyF

03-05-2010, 06:19 PM

Don't misread tone. Only one who might be angry here is you. Remember, you were the one telling me not to tell you can't judge. There's no anger on this end, just pointing out that the basis for your argument lacks statistical validity, especially given with how strongly you are espousing your opinions on the subject. You're not even qualifying them or allowing for them to be wrong.

There's a difference between guys like Griffin/Wall and Lawson/Ibaka. Griffin and Wall have pretty much been acknowledged far and wide by media, scouts, people in the biz, etc. as being legit stars in the making. Lawson and Ibaka are just two young guys who had some positive, some negative reviews prior to this season. There was no consensus on what they would do in the pros, like what people have said about Griffin and Wall.

I think my main problem with your stance is that you don't seem to even allow for the possibility that you could be wrong. When there is this little to support it, it's common to at least qualify it, "I could be wrong", or "from what I have seen so far, I think..." sorta thing. But it sounds like you're ready to go to Vegas and drop a dime on the future awesomeness of Lawson and the crapitude of Ibaka (were that possible).

I'm merely offering a more cautious opinion, as someone without a dog in the fight. I am not even saying you're wrong; I'm just saying you're jumping too conclusions too quickly. If you don't like that someone can have that opinion of your judgment, well, don't post it on the Internet then. ;)

In my first post about Ibaka I said "maybe I'm wrong" I'm not sure what clarification needs to be said. (I guess I could add a sig that says "my opinions on young players are mine and mine alone, maybe that would work?)

After the time I spend viewing and analyzing individual players, I am fairly comfortable with my reads on them. I'd go to Vegas and lay money that barring injury (which is the same for everyone) Lawson will be a star. I've seen enough to know this. Yes, he only plays 20 minutes a night because the Nuggets have Chauncey, but that hurts him in as much as it helps him. (FWIW, he's started twice against Deron this year and averaged 24 points a game on 17-27 shooting)

I'm VERY confident of his talents. Ibaka? I'd lay money he won't be an all star, but I wouldn't go further than that at this point. I personally don't even think he'll be a solid role player, but I can see how he could improve in areas, be utilized better and maybe he could get there. (there are people who would argue he's a solid role player now. . . I'm just not one of those)

FWIW - I really don't give a damn about the consensus either. I didn't understand Flynn going ahead of Lawson on draft day and nothing has changed my mind on that. Then again. . . to be fair, I really thought Jordan Farmer was going to be stud by now and he's fizzled into a backup PG. I wasn't nearly as sure about him as Lawson though. I'd go to Vegas and bet money on that guy. If I'm wrong, so be it. I don't think I am.

Neon_Chaos

03-05-2010, 07:53 PM

Rodney Stuckey collapsed on the Pistons bench in their game against Cleveland. He was just stretchered out.

The video replays show Stuckey as being alright walking to the bench. Moments later, he looked like he was having a heart attack or something

Update: It's a seizure, says ESPN right now. The game is on hold, I believe.

miami_fan

03-05-2010, 08:55 PM

MrBug708

03-05-2010, 11:11 PM

Lakers are having some serious in house issues right now. From the succession of Jerry Buss to Shannon Brown pouting

TroyF

03-06-2010, 10:58 AM

Lakers are having some serious in house issues right now. From the succession of Jerry Buss to Shannon Brown pouting

I was looking at it last night and I'm going to be fascinated by how LA finishes up the season and heads into the playoffs. They have 19 games left. Due to the early home schedule, 12 of those 19 games are going to be played on the road. We aren't talking "easy" road games either. Look at this little schedule at the end of March into early April:

@Spurs, @Thunder, @Rockets (b2b), @New Orleans, @Atlanta, vs. Utah, vs. San Antonio, @Denver, @Minnesota (b2b)

If Denver goes on a run (which they should do over the next ten games with their schedule) and Dallas stays hot, the Lakers may be fighting for their #1 seed down the stretch. This is something that seemed unimaginable a couple of weeks ago. They will likely keep the tie break over Dallas (they split the season series and have a 5 game lead vs. conference opponents) Denver gets the Lakers at home and a win in that game will give the Nuggets the tie break over the Lakers.

I don't think the Lakers will lose the #1 seed, but I think it benefits Dallas and Denver to put as much pressure on the Lake show as they can so they don't get 2 weeks off before the postseason.

Denver and Dallas have split two games this year. They'll play in Dallas later this month to determine who wins that tiebreaker. Dallas will have a huge advantage in that game. Denver will be playing a b2b flying in from Orlando. The Mavs will be rested. I fully expect Dallas to get that tie break.

TroyF

03-06-2010, 10:59 AM

Oh, and the Stuckey situation was just scary. I've had seizures and for both the person involved and friends and family, it is a helpless feeling to go through. I hope they find out what happened and he comes out of this ok.

Neuqua

03-06-2010, 05:29 PM

Big Fo

03-07-2010, 03:56 PM

Gotta laugh at Gasol trying to act hard, a clear flagrant foul on Howard.

What a bullshit call on that Pietrus alley-oop right after though.

Big Fo

03-07-2010, 04:32 PM

Good win by Orlando.

I just shake my head at some of the "fouls" Howard gets called for, him having five fouls and needing to be cautious defensively late on are a big part of why the Lakers could make their comeback in the fourth.

whomario

03-08-2010, 04:00 AM

@ TroF : I will respond on that list a little later :)

Beaubois with a monster 3rd quarter against the Bulls on Saturday :) (scored like 18 or 20 points there)

that was a damn sloppy game in Orlando ... Kobe Bryant is still an egomanic chucker ... Just every once in a while another player should get the ball in the last 2 minutes, just thinking outside the box here :)
Howard gets called for ridiculous fouls, then again he also gets away with a ton on the offensive end and when positioning for rebounds.

Barnes played a great game. Yeah, could have been ejected, but still an inspired game.
Ron Artest was atrocious, played like he looked with that ridiculous rodman-like haircut ...

Gortat with the polish hammer on Odom :popcorn:

Jeol Przybilla ruptures his patella tendon all over while slipping in the shower, fuck ... Might not be back all of next season ...

Houston can basically kiss the playoffs goodbye now, lost to Detroit in OT

TroyF

03-08-2010, 09:52 AM

Kobe could/should have got ejected along with Barnes. He threw an elbow after a Barnes dunk. Not a nasty one, but he threw it none the less.

I understand Howard gets away with some ridiculous fouls on the glass, but I wish to hell the refs would call those rather than the types of BS fouls he got in the second half yesterday. The Lakers have the "bump into a guy and throw your hands all over the place" fouls figured out. Artest last week against Melo. Gasol two times against Howard. Ridiculous.

I don't understand what Orlando has to do to get some respect from the national media. The announcers on the game yesterday babbling about how Orlando wasn't better than Cleveland last year and shouldn't be considered a championship contender this year. WTF are they watching? Orlando was a better team than Cleveland last year. It was decided on the court. And they are going to be a bitch to take out this year too. They are deep, they are tall, they play D, they hit threes. . . I don't care who you are, Orlando isn't going to be an easy out this year.

Carmelo with a huge night for the ailing Nuggets. George Karl to have surgery today to insert a feeding tube in his throat. Kenyon Martin will find out if he can play again this season (if he can't, Denver's title hopes are gone) Ty Lawson should be back this week sometime. When Melo hits the 18 foot jumper, he is simply impossible to stop.

I wrote about this yesterday, but the Lakers are now in a dogfight for the #1 seed. 3 games up in the loss column on both the Nuggets and Mavericks.

They play Toronto at home and then at Phoenix. Then they get 4 gimmees (Warriors, Kings, TWolves, Wizards)

After that, the rough stretch begins. As for the Nuggets, this week is critical. They go on a four game road trip (Wolves, Hornets, Grizzlies, Rockets) They follow that up with three winnable home games and a game at the Knicks. Why is that stretch of six important?

It leads into @Boston, @Toronto, @Orlando @Dallas (B2B)

If they don't take care of their next six games, there won't be a one or two seed to fight for.

DaddyTorgo

03-08-2010, 09:54 AM

Nuggets will smoke the Celtics.

sterlingice

03-08-2010, 10:39 AM

(FYI: For those of us reading but not really contributing, the thread this year has been so much better than any other that I can remember in the past with some great back and forth. Keep up the good work!)

SI

whomario

03-08-2010, 01:59 PM

interesting little summary on the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston last weekend : Basketball-Reference.com Blog » Blog Archive » Thoughts On the 2010 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4741)

TroyF

03-08-2010, 02:59 PM

Interesting article. Basketball has come a lot further with advanced stats, but the chemistry factor will always be the most difficult to figure out. +/- and adjusted +/- are terrific, but only if you are smart enough to read through the noise and look at other factors. With a baseball player, it's fairly easy to look at the pure stats and advanced numbers and make a call as to how good a player really is.

In basketball and football they aren't quite there yet. It tells you part of the story, but you need to take into account what your eyes tell you, their basic numbers and the "overall" team numbers while the particular player is in the game. (shooting percentages, times to the line, times per 100 possessions the ball is turned over with them in the game, etc.)

All in all, fun read.

DaddyTorgo

03-08-2010, 03:04 PM

TroyF

03-08-2010, 07:09 PM

Kenyon Martin will be undergoing PRP treatments and will play again this season. (no timetable currently set) What is PRP? I had to look it up, here is the article explaining it:

Two of the Pittsburgh Steelers’ biggest stars, Hines Ward and Troy Polamalu, used their own blood in an innovative injury treatment before winning the Super Bowl. At least one major league pitcher, about 20 professional soccer players and perhaps hundreds of recreational athletes have also undergone the procedure, commonly called platelet-rich plasma therapy.

Experts in sports medicine say that if the technique’s early promise is fulfilled, it could eventually improve the treatment of stubborn injuries like tennis elbow and knee tendinitis for athletes of all types.

The method, which is strikingly straightforward and easy to perform, centers on injecting portions of a patient’s blood directly into the injured area, which catalyzes the body’s instincts to repair muscle, bone and other tissue. Most enticing, many doctors said, is that the technique appears to help regenerate ligament and tendon fibers, which could shorten rehabilitation time and possibly obviate surgery.

Research into the effects of platelet-rich plasma therapy has accelerated in recent months, with most doctors cautioning that more rigorous studies are necessary before the therapy can emerge as scientifically proven. But many researchers suspect that the procedure could become an increasingly attractive course of treatment for reasons medical and financial.

“It’s a better option for problems that don’t have a great solution — it’s nonsurgical and uses the body’s own cells to help it heal,” said Dr. Allan Mishra, an assistant professor of orthopedics at Stanford University Medical Center and one of the primary researchers in the field. “I think it’s fair to say that platelet-rich plasma has the potential to revolutionize not just sports medicine but all of orthopedics. It needs a lot more study, but we are obligated to pursue this.”

Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the Los Angeles Dodgers’ team physician, used platelet-rich plasma therapy in July on a partially torn ulnar collateral ligament in the throwing elbow of pitcher Takashi Saito. Surgery would have ended Mr. Saito’s season and shelved him for about 10 to 14 months; he instead returned to pitch in the September pennant race without pain.

Dr. ElAttrache said he could not be certain that the procedure caused the pitcher’s recovery — about 25 percent of such cases heal on their own, he said — but it was another encouraging sign for the nascent technique, which doctors in the field said could help not just injuries to professional athletes but the tendinitis and similar ailments found in the general population.

“For the last several decades, we’ve been working on the mechanical effects of healing — the strongest suture constructs, can we put strong anchors in?” Dr. ElAttrache said. “But we’ve never been able to modulate the biology of healing. This is addressing that issue. It deserves a lot more study before we can say that it works with proper definitiveness. The word I would use is promising.”

Platelet-rich plasma is derived by placing a small amount of the patient’s blood in a filtration system or centrifuge that rotates at high speed, separating red blood cells from the platelets that release proteins and other particles involved in the body’s self-healing process, doctors said. A teaspoon or two of the remaining substance is then injected into the damaged area. The high concentration of platelets — from 3 to 10 times that of normal blood — often catalyzes the growth of new soft-tissue or bone cells. Because the substance is injected where blood would rarely go otherwise, it can deliver the healing instincts of platelets without triggering the clotting response for which platelets are typically known.

“This could be a method to stimulate wound healing in areas that are not well-vascularized, like ligaments and tendons,” said Dr. Gerjo van Osch, a researcher in the department of orthopedics at Erasmus University Medical Center in the Netherlands. “I call it a growth-factor cocktail — that’s how I explain it.”

Dr. van Osch and several other experts said they had used the procedure as a first option before surgery for reasons beyond its early results. There is little chance for rejection or allergic reaction because the substance is autologous, meaning it comes from the patient’s own body; the injection carries far less chance for infection than an incision and leaves no scar, and it takes only about 20 minutes, with a considerably shorter recovery time than after surgery.

Because of those apparent benefits, the consensus among doctors is that the procedure is worth pursuing. However, several doctors emphasized that platelet-rich plasma therapy as it stands now appeared ineffective in about 20 to 40 percent of cases, depending on the injury. But they added that because the procedure costs about $2,000 — compared with $10,000 to $15,000 for surgery — they expected that with more refinement, insurance companies would eventually not only authorize the use of PRP therapy but even require it as a first course of treatment.

Scoobz0202

03-08-2010, 08:13 PM

Cavs-Spurs game really close. Cavs down one with a few minutes left. The interesting thing tidbit:

- Lebron is out for the second straight game due to his ankle. They lost the other day to the Bucks. Dating back to 2007, the Cavs have lost ten straight games when Lebron is not in the lineup. Can they break the streak????

Mantle2600

03-08-2010, 08:38 PM

Scoobz0202

03-08-2010, 08:39 PM

Yay! :p

MrBug708

03-08-2010, 08:44 PM

Darren Collison is a terror. I dont think many Bruin fans thought he'd be performing this well in the NBA, much less as a rookie.

Groundhog

03-08-2010, 10:21 PM

I watched Hornets-Spurs on the weekend and Collison looks really, really good. He's learnt an awful lot off Chris Paul, especially with keeping his dribble going. I was very impressed. 20 assists for him today (still quite a few turnovers).

Morrow is a crazy good shooter. 6-6 from deep today. And NBDL call-up Reggie Williams with 28. Sseriously, Warriors are a dream for these NBDL guys... get to play in the NBA with the same dumb run-n-gun offense teams run in the NBDL and post NBDL-esque numbers.

whomario

03-09-2010, 05:12 AM

Tony Parker out for 6 weeks (or 4 or 8, depending on who´s talking) with a broken hand, ugh ...

more on the stats-conference above, rather more detailed : Key moments at MIT - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/14093/key-moments-at-mit)

Hardwood Paroxysm » Sloan Sports Analytics Conference (http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/tag/sloan-sports-analytics-conference/)

the blocked-shots value intrigues me the most since i have long just hated it when people swat shots to the 3rd row unnescessarily and it seems somewhat trackable by sites like 82games.

What websites do you guys use for looking up stats btw ? I´m no stat nut, but sure am not satisfied with the standard stat-pages (yahoo, nba.com, espn).
If i´m taking the time looking them up i might as well look at a couple more advanced ones.

I use basically 82games, basketball-reference (the player season finder is awesome) and hoopdata.
Any good ones i´m missing ?

tonight Gallinari finally with a big game again :)

Golden State is just insane right now, with all those injuries the lacking defense and rebounding is even somewhat excusable. Heck, your biggest players are Magette and Tolliver (who makes David Lee look like an enforcer), unless you count Chris Hunter who really isn´t any good ... They had 23 rebounds against the Hornets, 23 !!! The Hornets had 38 assists.

But the most insane statline of the night belongs to Richard Jefferson :

29 minutes, 1-3 shooting, 1 assist. How does he touch the ball so seldom when Tony Parker is out ? What did you get him for if not stepping up in this kind of situation ?

Ginobili with a great game though, 38 points on 12-23 shooting (7-11 threes, 7-7 FTs) .

TroyF

03-09-2010, 08:59 AM

82games
basketball-reference
ESPN for basic stats and game logs
hxxp://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/ (terrific team based stats)

Jefferson has been a massive disappointment. I agree on the blocked shot statistic, but it isn't always easy to do. It really depends on the situation. For example, the other night Birdman was running towards the baseline to block a 15 foot jumper. He hit it into the tenth row. In that case, it was the best play. He's going full speed and isn't going to be able to tip the ball back to himself. If he tips it to the shooter, he gives up a layup or a three point play. The high percentage play is to block the shot.

The other side of it is how it impacts the team as a whole. (not just for that possession, but for a 3 to 5 minute stretch after it) I know from Nuggets games the team can be walking in mud and one wallop by Bird can get them going.

All of that said, there is zero doubt from a pure statistical aspect that it's better to keep the ball in play. Not as flashy, but clearly better.

Gallanari can just flat out shot the ball. I like his game a lot.

whomario

03-09-2010, 09:45 AM

Gallanari can just flat out shot the ball. I like his game a lot.

He´s been much better defensively as well recently, really has become better at using his length to bother shots from the perimeter, moving his feet better and anticipating.
Not an all-world defender, but much improved since the beginning of the year.

I also think another offseason will do him good in terms of doing a program for his back and regaining some more mobility.

McGrady has been hurting him on offense, that guy truly knows how to stop ball movement ... Otherwise i think he might yet have a future, has looked ok at times, still runs a pretty damn nice pick and Roll and actually looked pretty good defensively considering he´s got a way before being in game shape.
But he sure does stop movement on offense ...

yeah, obviously like with any stat you have to put it into context and allow exceptions, but in general it really is annoying. It is also sth that would help "sell" less spectacular post defenders to the semi-casual fan. The comparison between Stromile Swift and Rasho Nesterovic was nice, basically Rasho´s blocks were nearly twice as "valuable" as Swifts, not suprising really.

sterlingice

03-09-2010, 09:47 AM

i liked the article from last year or whatever where it talked about the rockets evaluation of battier vs. kobe and it talked about looking at how often he forced him into shots from the part of the floor, or the type of shot that the rockets had statistically figured out was kobe's weakest.

that's the kind of advanced stats that can really tell you a lot about basketball.

I love having such a great stats guy in charge of my basketball team. This is why I badly envy the Mariners fans in baseball- they just have a guy who gets it.

SI

TroyF

03-09-2010, 10:39 AM

whomario,

Remember the post above where I said Ibaka had a low defensive IQ. I put Melo at -5 for help defense in that post.

Swift's defensive IQ is somewhere between a paper clip and a raw vegetable. He's one of the single dumbest players I've ever watched play the sport. If you desperately need a basket, he'll shoot a 20 footer. If you desperately need a defensive stop, he'll give up a three point play. If you are down by 24 with five minutes left, he'll look like Karl Malone for 5 minutes, score 12 points, block 5 shots (most of which will go into the 10th row) and throw down an incredible dunk or two.

Some Nuggets fans wanted the Nuggets to go after him two offseasons ago. I think if you'd had him, Allen Iverson, and JR Smith on the floor at the same time, you would lose IQ points just watching them play.

Chief Rum

03-09-2010, 07:54 PM

Apparently, the Clippers have fired Dunleavy from his GM job now, too.

Meanwhile, the Clips are getting massacred by the Magic. Not that that's a shock.

MrBug708

03-09-2010, 07:57 PM

They should just ask Lebron who he wants for both spots?

Chief Rum

03-09-2010, 08:07 PM

They should just ask Lebron who he wants for both spots?

Why the heck not? Worth a shot anyway.

Big Fo

03-09-2010, 10:20 PM

Apparently, the Clippers have fired Dunleavy from his GM job now, too.

Meanwhile, the Clips are getting massacred by the Magic. Not that that's a shock.

67 points in the first half, nice. Orlando is playing well after stumbling a bit in the second quarter of the season.

Howard dribbling the ball 80 feet down the court before setting up Bass for a dunk with a nice pass :cool:

Random question: what is the method for determining who gets credited with a rebound? Say a shot is missed and a guy on the other team tips it to one of his teammates, is it a set rule that the guy who tips it gets credit or is it a judgment call by the official scorer?

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 12:54 AM

It's amazing to me that there is anywhere less than five players on Kobe at the end of close games. At some point, you gotta say "anyone but him" as an opposing coach.

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 01:03 AM

Clippers should try to lure Jerry West. Its worth a shot and then he can try to lure the big free agents to come.

This was actually a subject of some discussion on the postgame Clipper talk on the radio.

I don't consider it very likely, but it's nice to dream. There's at least some things going for it--West has been out of basketball long enough to "miss" it, I would guess; the job's in LA; the Clippers already have good young talent in place; they have a ton of cap space; the owner is finally giving public indications he wants to win, not just make money; and there is an open coaching spot to fill.

All that said, West is 72. He doesn't have anything to prove, and has earned a healthy, unstressed retirement. It would take a lot of money AND West would have to be amenable to working again, and who knows if he is. And it's the Clippers.

I would put the odds at somewhere between the Lions winning the next three Super Bowls and Ben Roethlisberger being canonized by the end of the year.

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 01:06 AM

67 points in the first half, nice. Orlando is playing well after stumbling a bit in the second quarter of the season.

Howard dribbling the ball 80 feet down the court before setting up Bass for a dunk with a nice pass :cool:

Random question: what is the method for determining who gets credited with a rebound? Say a shot is missed and a guy on the other team tips it to one of his teammates, is it a set rule that the guy who tips it gets credit or is it a judgment call by the official scorer?

I believe possession is what matters, so the rebound would go to the guy who ends up with the ball. Pretty sure that's whole steals work, too. You can tip the ball in a passing lane, but it's the guy who picks up the loose ball who gets credit for the steal.

BTW, I have said it before, and I don't want to take anything away from Orlando, as they are a terrific team--but there is absolutely no perspective to be gained from this game for the Magic. This is like a high D-1 football team smoking a DII also ran at home; there are absolutely no conclusions which can be made from such a game.

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 02:10 AM

whomario

03-10-2010, 04:13 AM

Something I noticed today looking at action shots of Darren Collison (and, yes, I realize these shots are usually taken only when he's doing something good; still...)

1. Collison is always shorter than whoever's guarding him.
2. Collison is always in front of whoever's guarding him, and Collison has the ball. :D

well, the other 1/3 of the shots taken show him well ahead of everyone with the ball in the forground being held by an opponent who just stole the pass :D

Utah dismantled the Bulls. They sure have had some ridiculously efficient offensive games the last couple months. After starting the year 19-17 the Jazz have gone 23-4 since btw.
Their trade sending Brewer away for nothing doesn´t look too terrible as well, others stepped up.
If we ever get the "hockey assist" in basketball, Kirilenko would be top5 in that category.

Bogut with 25/17 with 4 blocks :) And again : Amazing defender. Stats wise : There can´t be too many people that were in the Top 10 in blocks and charges in any given season, he´s 2nd in BPG and 3rd in charges taken per game.
Talk about flopping all you want, but it tells a bit about the players smarts as well, especially when he´s also a very good shotblocker and has those 2 options at hand.
Among the Top 15 shotblockers none takes more than 0.35 charges a game (josh smith), he takes 0.8 a game.

Carlos Delfino had quite a few very nice games this year as well, good utility/2-way player, more than that when his shot is falling or when he has room to drive to the basket.
Ilyasove also a good comeback season, Ridnour has been a great backup (10+ points, 4 assists and a career high 48% shooting in 20 minutes)

Bucks overall a pretty good defensive team, very "likeable" in a way.

Celtics signed Finley earlier and he made his debut. Another experienced veteran that can´t guard anyone quick anymore, just what they needed ...

Casspi looks to be out of the rotation for now due to fatigue, has hit that infamous "rookie wall". Sat out last game for that reason, played just 4 minutes this time. Will be much better next year :)
The internet monster ate my post about him and the other rookies last night, aaaargh ...
In short : His game is tailor made for the NBA imo (and it showed). Great finisher, runs the floor extremely well (not just fast but knows where to go) and also is a good defender due to his great combination of athleticicms and length paired with solid defensive instincts. His jump shot actually is a new thing, just 2 years ago he couldn´t hit the euro-3 now he´s shot 38% on ample attempts in the NBA.
So i definitely see him as a solid NBA starter at least.

MrBug708

03-10-2010, 07:11 AM

It's amazing to me that there is anywhere less than five players on Kobe at the end of close games. At some point, you gotta say "anyone but him" as an opposing coach.

Seriously

Warhammer

03-10-2010, 08:32 AM

I would just like to confirm that if you put Stromile Swift and a brick out on the basketball court, the brick would have the higher basketball IQ.

TroyF

03-10-2010, 10:56 AM

This was actually a subject of some discussion on the postgame Clipper talk on the radio.

I don't consider it very likely, but it's nice to dream. There's at least some things going for it--West has been out of basketball long enough to "miss" it, I would guess; the job's in LA; the Clippers already have good young talent in place; they have a ton of cap space; the owner is finally giving public indications he wants to win, not just make money; and there is an open coaching spot to fill.

All that said, West is 72. He doesn't have anything to prove, and has earned a healthy, unstressed retirement. It would take a lot of money AND West would have to be amenable to working again, and who knows if he is. And it's the Clippers.

I would put the odds at somewhere between the Lions winning the next three Super Bowls and Ben Roethlisberger being canonized by the end of the year.

Serious question here and I'm not trying to start a flame war or get in a fight with Clippers fans: I've always thought of West as a pretty good guy. Would he even consider working for Sterling,a guy who has been convicted of doing some not very nice things?

I know in the NFL players threw a fit and said they'd never sign for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. I'm amazed this hasn't transferred to Sterling and what he's done.

MikeVic

03-10-2010, 11:06 AM

What did Sterling do?

TroyF

03-10-2010, 11:13 AM

I believe possession is what matters, so the rebound would go to the guy who ends up with the ball. Pretty sure that's whole steals work, too. You can tip the ball in a passing lane, but it's the guy who picks up the loose ball who gets credit for the steal.

BTW, I have said it before, and I don't want to take anything away from Orlando, as they are a terrific team--but there is absolutely no perspective to be gained from this game for the Magic. This is like a high D-1 football team smoking a DII also ran at home; there are absolutely no conclusions which can be made from such a game.

Well, no question on that. The Magic are playing some terrific ball right now though. 19-4 in their last 23, 13 of the wins being by 10 or more points.

There were two results that surprised me last night:

Jazz/Bulls. Jazz have been playing some terrific ball, but they were only 4-3 in their last 7 heading into this game, they've struggled on the road. (one of those wins came strictly because the Suns ran out of gas on a 4 in 5 night stretch, they lost to the Kings and Clippers on the road recently) I was stunned to see them lay down the gauntlet like that in a road game against any team. Without Kenyon, it's now very conceivable the Nuggets could drop to the number 4 seed. Ouch.

Raptors/Lakers - I'm not going to make too much of a win against a pretty good Toronto team, but had I bet money on this, I would have expected the Lakers to come out fuming and lay a beat down. Three straight losses, Kobe and Pau complaining about things, 8 of their next 10 on the road after the Raptors. . . and yet they had to come back for a two point win? I already told you I'd have put money on a Laker blowout, if you had added that Turk, Bosh and Calderon would shoot 12-36, the Lakers would take 14 more FT than the Raptors and that LA would turn the ball over only 9 times? I probably would have lost my condo. I'm very interested to see how the Lakers do over these next ten.

TroyF

03-10-2010, 11:16 AM

What did Sterling do?

hxxp://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/11/25/the-donald-sterling-rule-all-bad-deeds-go-unpunished/

Quote from the article:

LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling lives by his own rules. And the only one that matters, apparently, is this: all bad deeds go unpunished.

Over the last six years, nearly two dozen L.A. residents have sued Sterling for engaging in racist housing practices and Jim Crow-style bigotry. In a 2003 deposition, the 76-year-old real estate mogul admitted to paying a former employee to have sex with him in an elevator. Three years ago, the U.S. government charged him with "willful" mistreatment of African-American and Latino tenants, and earlier this month, he agreed to pay the Dept. of Justice nearly $3 million to settle a federal racial-discrimination housing lawsuit, the largest award ever for a case of its kind.

<script type="text/javascript"> tweetmeme_source = 'NBAFanHouse'; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://tweetmeme.com/i/scripts/button.js"></script>
Since 2003, he has committed to give more than $8 million to plaintiffs to end housing-discrimination cases before they went to trial. To top it off, Sterling is currently being sued by Elgin Baylor, the Clippers long-time general manager and an NBA Hall of Famer, for age and race discrimination.

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 11:27 AM

Serious question here and I'm not trying to start a flame war or get in a fight with Clippers fans: I've always thought of West as a pretty good guy. Would he even consider working for Sterling,a guy who has been convicted of doing some not very nice things?

I know in the NFL players threw a fit and said they'd never sign for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. I'm amazed this hasn't transferred to Sterling and what he's done.

Good point, Troy, and I don't know. I could definitely see West saying "I won't work for that man."

But then, I would think players would have an issue, too, and the Clippers do still get their share of free agents. So maybe the sentiment inside NBA circles isn't as strong as it is in the court of public opinion.

Chief Rum

03-10-2010, 11:35 AM

hxxp://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/11/25/the-donald-sterling-rule-all-bad-deeds-go-unpunished/

Quote from the article:

LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling lives by his own rules. And the only one that matters, apparently, is this: all bad deeds go unpunished.

Over the last six years, nearly two dozen L.A. residents have sued Sterling for engaging in racist housing practices and Jim Crow-style bigotry. In a 2003 deposition, the 76-year-old real estate mogul admitted to paying a former employee to have sex with him in an elevator. Three years ago, the U.S. government charged him with "willful" mistreatment of African-American and Latino tenants, and earlier this month, he agreed to pay the Dept. of Justice nearly $3 million to settle a federal racial-discrimination housing lawsuit, the largest award ever for a case of its kind.

<script type="text/javascript"> tweetmeme_source = 'NBAFanHouse'; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://tweetmeme.com/i/scripts/button.js"></script>
Since 2003, he has committed to give more than $8 million to plaintiffs to end housing-discrimination cases before they went to trial. To top it off, Sterling is currently being sued by Elgin Baylor, the Clippers long-time general manager and an NBA Hall of Famer, for age and race discrimination.

Yup, what he said. Although I'll add a slight adjustment and note that I believe Elgin's suit is more about a bad breakup or in-office politicking. Frankly, Baylor was a very poor GM and should have been fired over a decade before he was. He should be kissing Sterling's feet for allowing him to be "gainfully" employed for so long.

All of the rest, though, nail on the head. Sterling's largely a piece of shit. Unstated up there is that he is also a miserly scrooge that has kept a tight lid on the payroll for most of his ownership of the Clips, so that he can increase profits and franchise value (and of course, this consequently hurt the team performance, as high drafted "star" after star left the team for more money elsewhere, and big money free agents couldn't get big money out fo the Clips, and so stayed elsewhere).

TroyF

03-10-2010, 01:48 PM

I agree on Baylor chief. Thing is, Sterling can't even fire people the right way. According to Dunleavey he heard about it from the television, called up Sterling to thank him for the chance and still hasn't had a return call from him.

He's an amazingly bad person and while I can see a lot of guys taking the money, something tells me West would tell him to go pound sand. You are right about the culture though. It will be interesting to see what they do. FWIW, if they really want Lebron, their best shot might be to simply hold off and tell him he can pick whoever he wants to do it all.

Scoobz0202

03-10-2010, 01:55 PM

What did Sterling do?

hxxp://deadspin.com/5398936/donald-sterling-continues-to-get-away-with-being-the-most-evil-man-in-sports

hxxp://deadspin.com/5263277/the-sordid-life-of-clippers-owner-donald-sterling

whomario

03-11-2010, 03:33 AM

TroyF

03-11-2010, 10:56 AM

So, that´s how you use the d-league. Thabeet went down there, gets some reps and posts good numbers while helping that team to a 5-1 record, comes back and plays a season high 25 minutes with 7/6 and a block and a +25 in +- against the Celtics.
Glad for him.

Denver with a comeback win against the Wolves, that run was pretty impressive, nice creative lineup. @ TroF : How´d you like Darko ? I thought it was an ok game. Nothing spectacular, but definitely looked pretty usefull and really could be a great complementary player next to both Love and Jefferson.

Dallas wins their 13th game in a row, only against the Nets but despite Nowitzki having a terrible night (3-16 shooting, 5 TOs)
Dampier came back only playing 5 minutes but it´s a start. Beaubois with 16 points.

Richard Jefferson goes 0-2 in 18 minutes ... Only worth half when he´s not having the green light and/or having a PG setting him up.
Manu with 28/6/5 :)

Thoughts on the Nuggets/TWolves game:

I was watching it with a friend and I told him in the middle of the third quarter that if we didn't get the good
JR Smith, we were dead. JR comes into the game with 6:13 left in the third quarter and the TWolves up 6.

Defensive stop, JR 3 pointer, Wolves score a 2, JR hits a 3, Wolves score a 2, JR hits a 3. JR goes on a 9-4 run by himself even with Denver not stopping the Wolves. Denver ran it up from there.

Carmelo Anthony's line does not give him any justice for his performance. I'm not exaggerating here, in the first quarter Carmelo lost 7 assists because teammates didn't hit wide open jumpers. His final line shows 19 points, 6 boards, 5 assists, 5 steals and 1 block (2 turnovers) He should have had 12 assists minimum if the people he passed the ball to would have done anything.

JR with a jaw dropping oop that if you haven't seen, you really, really should.

Darko? He played ok. His rebounding was solid. His offense doesn't look good to me. I know it was one game, but he missed some ridiculously easy shots. I liked him on defense a lot more. He's an incredibly smart defender who changes shots more than you think at first glance. If he had that 20 foot range they said he had when he came into the league, I'd probably start sliding your way.

Other games last night:

The Jazz had 35 assists in an NBA road game. I don't care who you are playing, that' simply amazing.

Boston - you let the Grizz shoot 55% in Boston? Really? 48-29 on the boards? Seriously? I thought a month ago the Eastern conference first round would be boring as hell. Now I'm thinking the Boston vs. Anyone series should be pretty good and that Cleveland is going to wax the floor with whoever wins that series.

Gerald Wallace - 28 points on 10 shots. Wow.

DaddyTorgo

03-11-2010, 10:59 AM

Boston's going nowhere in the playoffs. 1-and-done.

whomario

03-11-2010, 11:41 AM

Darko? He played ok. His rebounding was solid. His offense doesn't look good to me. I know it was one game, but he missed some ridiculously easy shots. I liked him on defense a lot more. He's an incredibly smart defender who changes shots more than you think at first glance. If he had that 20 foot range they said he had when he came into the league, I'd probably start sliding your way.

His offense is terrible right now, passing excluded (had an amazing touch pass against Houston : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtxhRNwDfuw had a couple more that were amazing for a big guy)
Offense is about rythm, repetition (especially for post moves) and most of all confidence, he hasn´t any of the 3 right now.
That 20 foot jump shot is long gone, showed glimpses of that his first half season with the Magic, after that constantly below 30% on his few attempts. You also have to remember that he bulked up considerably, came in as a rather thin PF and now is propably one of the stronger built Cs in the league.
But when he´s in shape and has some confidence he is a solid post scorer. That hook shot he´s trying right now is his bail-out move when he can´t get his moves together, right now he can´t do that at all unfortunately.

The Jazz had a ton of assists in quite a few games recently, they are really working great together on offense.

TroyF

03-12-2010, 09:28 AM

Not much to talk about last night. The TNT lineup was terrible. Roy went nuts and the Warriors lost another game. The Magic beat up the injury plagued Bulls for yet another blowout. The Hawks squeaked by the Wizards despite their front line getting abused. Blatche and McGee went 12-32 from the floor for 50 points and 19 rebounds. (Blatche did turn the ball over 7 times)

Two very interesting games tonight for my money (outside of MY Nuggets playing in NO)

1) Jazz @ Bucks - Two of the hottest teams in the game. The Bucks have won 11 of their last 12. The Jazz are on a 23-5 run. Should be a great basketball game.

2) Lakers @ Suns - The Lakers are currently up 2.5 games on the Mavericks (3 in the loss column) The Mavericks play the Knicks on Saturday night. The Lakers lose this game and their #1 seed could be down to 1.5 games by the time they wake up Sunday morning. I don't think the Nuggets will win both @NO and @Memphis, but they could get within 2 games. (and they have a shot at getting the tiebreaker) The Jazz could get within 3 with two wins this weekend. After this game, the Lakers have 4 gimmee type wins before they have their brutal 8 game stretch.

The Lakers need to have a good performance tonight.

------------------------

The pass Darko made above was hella impressive whomario. He didn't do anything that creative on the offensive end in the Nuggets game.

whomario

03-12-2010, 01:29 PM

Blatche and McGee went 12-32 from the floor for 50 points and 19 rebounds. (Blatche did turn the ball over 7 times)

Two very interesting games tonight for my money (outside of MY Nuggets playing in NO)

1) Jazz @ Bucks - Two of the hottest teams in the game. The Bucks have won 11 of their last 12. The Jazz are on a 23-5 run. Should be a great basketball game.

The pass Darko made above was hella impressive whomario. He didn't do anything that creative on the offensive end in the Nuggets game.

And the Wizards are competitive as well, so it´s not like they are posting empty stats.

2nd the Jazz-Bucks, which is also a clash of the systems really. Will be interesting to see how the Bucks defense reacts to Utah´s offensive schemes and vice-versa.

He had quite a few of those playing in Orlando with Howard as well, that high-low with Howard looked very promising. Can´t even describe how frustrated i was when Smith started screwing around to throw this insane amount of money at Lewis and Darko wouldn´t wait it out and went for the supposed starting Job in Memphis.
That would have made his career a lot different playing as a 20-25 MPG guy on a championship calibre team instead of a 25 MPG player on a tanking team that changed coaches and philosophy after half a season ... :banghead:

Chicago @ miami is a huge game for both teams, if miami wins they are 2.5 games ahead of chicago for the 8th spot.

Coffee Warlord

03-12-2010, 01:34 PM

Chicago's screwed right now. Rose went out last night with a wrist injury (though non-shooting hand). Deng & Taj Gibson are still gimpy, and Noah is gonna be out for a few more weeks at least.

whomario

03-12-2010, 03:46 PM

yeah, they might be sliding real fast, just not many games left. Even if they come back they need to get a rythm again and if you are down 2,3 or 4 games by then it will not work out anymore.

@ TroyF : A video of Milicic against Argentina at the World Cup ´06, maybe interests you as well : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygLQssE5DE
He was 21 years old then, if he enters the draft the year later, based on his performance in that World Cup, he still gets drafted in the Top 5, guaranteed. Argentina´s big men rotation : Scola, Oberto, Nocioni, Hermann. Not exactly walkover material.
Followed it by going toe-to-toe with the Gasols in a game where his touch just wasn´t there and he still impressed on both ends (couldn´t buy a call either).

After that tournament everybody that watched it thought that this would end really well yet with him.

I know it sounds like excuses, but seeing that highlights again (haven´t seen anything from that WC since then) still makes me question a lot of things within the NBA and it´s way to supress talent and try to squeeze squares into round holes. That´s why i love it how european basketball developed and hope it does further.
Because just like Premier League soccer isn´t for everybody who then can end up being a superstar in another big league like in Spain or Italy (or vice versa), neither is the NBA. Or Europe for that matter (quite few good players that had roles in the NBA tanked in Europe, Pargo last year f.e. was a non-factor and even collected DNP CDs).

Truehoop´s Henry Abbott :

And Darko Milicic -- he's way more talented than anyone ever gave him credit for. He has been beat up in his first six years in the NBA. I wish I could sneak you into the gym so you could see what he can do. He really is seven-feet-plus. He's really bouncy. He's really running. You can see why it was a debate who should be first, second or third in that draft.

And you're a Carmelo guy!

Carmelo's my guy. But Darko's ta-len-ted. They're doing something smart here by welcoming him openly, and making him feel a part of what's happening. He's a good kid. There's nothing bad about him. What's the point of all the yelling and screaming and cursing and insulting that he has endured? Once you have lost your dignity and self respect, it's hard to be professional. Now he's somewhere where they are acting like they're happy to see him, and it's awesome.
If he ends up going to Europe after this season (which i think he will, those games now are just further proof that it´s just a big drag playing for nothing with teammates that don´t give consistent effort because there really is nothing to be gained other than good personal stats), i´m pretty sure he´ll be an absolute force and routinely heading "top free agents in europe" lists. At this point i just want to see him get involved and play to his strengths, not nescesserily in the NBA anymore.

whomario

03-12-2010, 03:59 PM

Sorry for the homer-post, promise to be done for the next week or at least to whenever he has a great game ;)

Tonight Love is out (and Hollins still out) which might mean 35 minutes if he doesn´t drop over dead from exhaustion before that :p

TroyF

03-12-2010, 04:12 PM

coffee,

At this point I don't even count Chicago. It's not their fault they are banged up, but it is what it is. they haven't been competitive for the last six games (don't let the Mavs score fool anyone, they were not in that game) I don't see that changing anytime soon, especially not in a B2B banged up even more.

They need to fire Del Negro and hope they strike it rich in this round of FA.

whomario,

I know they guy has talent and I know the NBA can be screwy in reading talent sometimes. . . but Darko has to take some of this blame too. I hope he finishes the season out strong.

------------------------------

I was thinking about this the other day and I sure am glad I don't cheer for one of the teams who sold their souls for Bron, Wade or Bosh. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people this summer.

Big Fo

03-12-2010, 04:26 PM

Who needs Darko when you've got the Polish Hammer :cool:

He did have his moments in Orlando though. I still don't know who Smith thought he was bidding against when he gave Lewis that crazy contract, he's a good player and fits into what the Magic like to do but damn. I wonder if Lewis had been signed for more reasonable money whether they might have tried harder to keep Milicic.

MikeVic

03-12-2010, 04:27 PM

whomario

03-12-2010, 04:35 PM

------------------------------

I was thinking about this the other day and I sure am glad I don't cheer for one of the teams who sold their souls for Bron, Wade or Bosh. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people this summer.

Totally agree. It has happened before as well ... But honestly, most of those teams really weren´t going anywhere anyway and can put themselves in a much better position than 2 years ago even when missing out on those 3.

The Thunder will have just 40 mio on their payroll btw with no one they´d need to resign (Etan Thomas, earl watson and Harprings contract come off the books). I´m curious if they´ll try to add a really good player or go for a solid player or 2 and keep some spending money for when Durant and Westbrook get their extensions ?
In theory, next year might be a perfect opportunity to bring in a star into a well working team. Maybe Joe Johnson ? Although he´d need the ball a bit too much to work with Westbrook, but if he buys into being an 16-18 PPG with less touches he´d be a damn nice fit.

Then again, other than Green (and Krstic going from starter to backup with a solid starter coming in) i wouldn´t want to replace anybody right now and the market for big guys isn´t that convincing and i think Green is really integral to their tight-knit chemistry.

So realistically a shooter that can play backup minutes at the 3 and 2 or 4, a solid center.

Maybe a guy like Mike Miller ? IMO he´d be a great fit other than that it would cut into Harden´s and Sefolosha´s PT who really complement each other well (Miller doesn´t make sense if he´s not playing 15-20 minutes next to Durant with his shooting ability). If Durant could play some minutes at the 4 or was a great passer (then enabling them to play a non-PG in the backup PG minutes) the planning would be much easier.

I´d love to see Milicic on the Thunder, only half kidding ;)

Maybe them doing a trade using their 2 first round picks would be wiser, at least to move up in the draft, no way do they have room for 2 more rookies.

RainMaker

03-12-2010, 05:29 PM

Chicago @ miami is a huge game for both teams, if miami wins they are 2.5 games ahead of chicago for the 8th spot.
I think the Bulls are done. Rose isn't playing tonight. They know that even if they make the playoffs, it's probably a short series. They might be better off letting Deng, Gibson, and Noah heal the rest of the season and be real cautious with Rose.

TroyF

03-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Totally agree. It has happened before as well ... But honestly, most of those teams really weren´t going anywhere anyway and can put themselves in a much better position than 2 years ago even when missing out on those 3.

The Thunder will have just 40 mio on their payroll btw with no one they´d need to resign (Etan Thomas, earl watson and Harprings contract come off the books). I´m curious if they´ll try to add a really good player or go for a solid player or 2 and keep some spending money for when Durant and Westbrook get their extensions ?
In theory, next year might be a perfect opportunity to bring in a star into a well working team. Maybe Joe Johnson ? Although he´d need the ball a bit too much to work with Westbrook, but if he buys into being an 16-18 PPG with less touches he´d be a damn nice fit.

Then again, other than Green (and Krstic going from starter to backup with a solid starter coming in) i wouldn´t want to replace anybody right now and the market for big guys isn´t that convincing and i think Green is really integral to their tight-knit chemistry.

So realistically a shooter that can play backup minutes at the 3 and 2 or 4, a solid center.

Maybe a guy like Mike Miller ? IMO he´d be a great fit other than that it would cut into Harden´s and Sefolosha´s PT who really complement each other well (Miller doesn´t make sense if he´s not playing 15-20 minutes next to Durant with his shooting ability). If Durant could play some minutes at the 4 or was a great passer (then enabling them to play a non-PG in the backup PG minutes) the planning would be much easier.

I´d love to see Milicic on the Thunder, only half kidding ;)

Maybe them doing a trade using their 2 first round picks would be wiser, at least to move up in the draft, no way do they have room for 2 more rookies.

I don't think that team can win with Jeff Green on the roster. Say what you want about chemistry, the guy is not what he thinks he is and certainly not what they think he is. How can you be 10 points worse on defense per 100 possessions with your supposed defensive stopper ON THE COURT? (sorry for the caps, it just amazes me)

Their real defensive stopper is Sefolosha. When you have your starting lineup out, it's Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Green, Krstic.

How many guys can create for others? That'd be one. How many guys are below average or worse at passing the ball for their position? That'd be 4. Green, Sefolosha, Durant and Krstic average under 10 assists per game combined.

So what are your choices? You aren't getting rid of Durant, so scratch that. Sefolosha's replacement is in place in Harden. Harden is also not a great passer. (you upgrade about 1 assist per 48 from Sefolosha to Harden)

Krstic? OK, but let's be real here. How many centers score, rebound, pass the ball, and defend well? You have a choice to make here and your choice had better be rebounding and defense here. (You do not want to force Durant to become your main rebounder, it's just not smart) Really, good luck finding a center who does two of those things well. Solid big men are not an easy asset to acquire.

That leaves Green. He's playing out of position, can't pass, can't stretch the defense, is an overrated defender (especially on 4's) and has trade value.

FWIW, I don't hate Jeff Green. Put in his natural position of SF on a team with good ball movement already, he'd be an ok player. (not a great player, but ok) He's just not a good puzzle piece in OKC.

DeToxRox

03-12-2010, 11:37 PM

Will Bynum had 20 assists for the Pistons tonight. One of the few things to be happy about so far, outside of the play of Jerebko (18 and 8 tonight also).

TroyF

03-13-2010, 04:06 PM

Huge, huge win last night for the Lakers. They showed their quality and should now win their 4 gimmees and take a 3+ game lead into their 8 game stretch. (Gentry was right by the way, that was clearly a flagrant one on Gasol. The NBA needs to tighten up the rules and make for clarity on this. You are in control of your arms. I don't care if you go for the ball or not, you club a guy in the head, it's a flagrant. It doesn't mean it's a dirty play, it doesn't mean you should be kicked out of the game, it doesn't mean you deserve a suspension. . . but when your arm comes down on someone's head with the force Gasol's came down, that's a flagrant 1. It's a no brainer)

Jazz fought tough against the Bucks, but the Bucks held on. The Jazz are far bigger of a threat than I thought they would be.

The importance of the Nuggets win cannot be overstated. They play the Grizz in a tough back to back. They are still without Ty Lawson and the injured Kenyon Martin. They went 3-22 from three point land. They turned the ball over 19 times. Yet they found a way to pull out the win. Mostly thanks to Carmelo Anthony in the fourth quarter. It was an ugly win, but when 25% of your rotation is down, you are on the road and you shoot like crap from long range. . . you take what you can get.

Nuggets/Grizz is the game of the night. It's the only game involving two current playoff teams. Mavs should beat up on the Knicks. . . other than those two games, no other game will even have much to do with seeding.

whomario

03-14-2010, 06:41 AM

First off : Luis Scola dropped 44 points (and 12 boards) on 20-25 shooting. If you have the chance, watch this game. If Scola had better physichal attributes he´d be unbelievable, his Post moves and footwork are 2nd to none in the NBA as his ability to get open in the lane.
Having a left hand would help as well ;)

Stephen Curry 35 and 10 assists, 13-21 shooting.

Dallas sucked donkey ass ...

Blatche another big game with 32 points, 25/10 since the all star break.

Caught Denver´s 4th quarter in replay just now, impressive stuff.

San Antonio with their annual great play in March. Now if Parker can come back in time for the POs ...

TroyF

03-14-2010, 09:24 AM

Dallas was just stunning. The Knicks just slapped them around on the second night of a B2B. I'm still amazed at that one.

The Denver win surprised me as well. I figured on teh second night of the B2B, Denver would be in some trouble. Even posted here that I didn't think they'd win both games and that's why the NO game was so important to get. Simply put, when JR Smith gets that hot, you aren't beating Denver. Best fourth quarter they have had this year.

Denver overtakes Dallas for the 2 seed. They also go up 3 games in the win column on Utah. (Utah with another tough one tonight in OKC) Why is that important? Denver owns the tiebreaker and doesn't face Utah again this year. If Utah were to lose tonight, Denver would essentially own a 4 game lead in the division with 16 to play. The Nuggets now play @Houston and then home against the Wizards. (if you want to see ugly basketball, watch that one on Tuesday night. . . both teams will be playing their 4th in 5 nights. It's going to be brutal to watch)

MrBug708

03-14-2010, 10:45 AM

whomario

03-14-2010, 11:54 AM

Second to none?

I´m not saying he´s the best post scorer in the league, which he isn´t due to his shortcomings, but his footwork and Post moves itself are right up there.
Heck, he´s had a few moves used regularly this year (as he´s getting more touches without Yao) where the refs needed a couple weeks to figure out that they are actually legal/possible before they stopped whistling him for travelling violations on them.

The guy has decent size at best, can´t jump at all (he has 1 dunk all season), isn´t really quick, doesn´t have anyone setting him up and he can´t finish with the left hand. Every player knows he´s going to his right hand 85% of the time, yet he still fakes them into thinking he won´t.

In short : Can´t power through people, can´t shoot over people, can´t run around people.

Does mean he´s a reliable No1 option, but doesn´t change a thing about the 3 qualities i mentioned ;)

And like with passing, numbers don´t tell everything here (and those aren´t shabby either at 15.5 PPG by now).

TroyF

03-14-2010, 11:58 AM

For pure post moves? I'd rate Scola in the top 5 of the NBA. You have to understand that Scola isn't big enough just to shoot it over people. He's a true 6'9" guy who has a fairly small wingspan. He's not fast and doesn't have a strong first step either. That means a vast majority of what he gets are the result of guile and footwork. It would be scary to think of how good this guy could be if he were simply born 3 or 4 inches taller with a longer reach.

That doesn't mean I think he's the best inside player in the game (not speaking for whomario here, I'm sure he doesn't think that either) But when it comes to creating a good chance for yourself with your back to the basket? Easily top 5 in the league. And you could make a very good case that he has the best low post moves in the league.

TroyF

03-15-2010, 12:50 AM

The Jazz did lose to the Thunder. (they played without AK or Okur)

Amare scores 36 points on 17 shots as the Suns roll.

Cavs down the Celtics. The Celtics bench was putrid. Daniels, Wallace, Robinson and Finley combined to go 3-21 from the floor. Combine that with Cleveland going to the line 48 times and you have a recipe for disaster.

Standings:

Lakers up 3 on the Nuggets, 3.5 on the Mavs. Five games seperate the 4 and 8 seeds in the West. (and OKC/Utah still have an outside shot to catch Denver)

1-4 in the East is pretty much set. (Boston could catch Atlanta for the 3 seed but that's it) The other four teams battling for who gets to play Boston. (though I wouldn't call what Toronto and Chicago are doing right now battling)

Three interesting games on the docket for tomorrow night:

1) Nuggets @ Rockets - Nuggets try to continue their run. Rockets battling to stay in the playoff hunt.

2) Wizards @ Jazz - Jazz off of a B2B, banged up and on a two game losing streak. Blatche is playing out of his mind.

3) Lakers @ Warriors - Should be an easy game for LA, but GS can always get hot from three. These next four are important for the Lakers to build up a cushion so they can get some rest for the post season run.

whomario

03-15-2010, 05:53 AM

the way they are playing, Milwaukee might just catch Boston and get homecourt :) Stackhouse and Salmons added some needed scoring, those moves seem to pan out afterall...

Amare has been pretty beastly i have to admit, 27/10 since the all star game.
Will be highly interesting to see if and how they can work Barbosa back into the lineup with Dragic and Dudley playing some really good ball this season on both ends.

Oklahoma had a nice little shootarround against the Jazz, definitely missed Okur (whose a better defender than he gets credit for) and obviously Kirilenko on defense.
OKC shot 61% and scored 119 while hitting just 3-12 from 3.
Oklahoma has Harden out for the next couple weeks, hope he gets back beginning of April at least to get a rythm before the POs. They have zero depth on the 2/3 positions, Kyle Weaver is their lone SG/SF right now.

Orlando manages to loose to the Bobcats on a night where Howard hits 12-14 from the field (he had a -15 no less, so somethin didn´t go well).
And sometimes erratic shooting aside, Stephen Jackson is having a great season for the Bobcats.

TroyF

03-15-2010, 08:56 AM

What didn't go well for Orlando was the fact 3 of their rotation players showed up (VC, Howard, Pietrus) and the other five took the night off. Those other five went 7-32 from the floor, took 2 total foul shots and scored 19 points in 116 minutes of basketball. That's about as putrid as you can get.

One of the reasons Utah struggles so badly on the road (and the Nuggets to a degree) is that they foul like crazy. They give up 1 more FT a game, but play at a slower pace than the Nuggets. They also get to the line a ton, 2nd to Denver in the NBA. What happens to both teams is when they get a bad whistle, they struggle to score when it counts. OKC went to the line 35 times last night. That makes up for struggling with the three ball.

sooner333

03-15-2010, 11:31 AM

They have zero depth on the 2/3 positions, Kyle Weaver is their lone SG/SF right now.

True, but you also have to remember that Jeff Green also can just as easily slide into the 3 when they play two bigs and Westbrook can play the 2 when Maynor is on the floor. It's not ideal with Harden out, but with the versitility in the starting lineup, it's not a disaster.

whomario

03-15-2010, 12:55 PM

True, but you also have to remember that Jeff Green also can just as easily slide into the 3 when they play two bigs and Westbrook can play the 2 when Maynor is on the floor. It's not ideal with Harden out, but with the versitility in the starting lineup, it's not a disaster.

definitely, but considering Durant plays 40 minutes that doesn´t leave a ton of minutes for Green to "slide down" as i assume they won´t revive the "Durant at the 2" experiment, would they ? Well, doesn´t leave a ton of minutes to be filled anyway, so my post definitely wasn´t meant as "oh no, thunder are in trouble", just felt like mentioning it in light of the Jazz missing players ;)

@ TroyF : True, but in general it´s amazing how much improved their (OKC) offense is, even while lacking the "bail out" ability to shoot long jumpers, especially for a young team i find that just great.

They are 5th in the league in PPG since the all star break at 105 a game (admittedly the schedule was favourable), can´t find much in avanced split stats right now but pretty sure they have just gotten better there.

And last night ? 32 of 43 on shots within 15 feet + 35 FTs ? That´s incredible.
(stats courtesy of hoopdata.com, great box scores for anyone wanting a bit more than the obvious)

TroyF

03-15-2010, 01:05 PM

whomario,

Agree on all counts. They are a smart team for being so young. That said, they are 13th in offensive efficiency. The strategy of 15 feet and in works vs. Utah. Especially a Utah without AK. They simply have zero shot blockers, no length and they foul repeatedly. That's a great recipe for any team.

I love OKC, think they'll win a title within five years and think they are the future of the division. But they aren't going to be successful with the 15 and in strategy against the Nuggets or Lakers. Too much size and too many athletes.

Utah just impresses the hell out of me. I hate them, I really, really hate them. But they are playing over their heads and have for awhile now. They are impressive. Utah and OKC could easily end up playing in round one. That'd be a hell of an opening round series.

MrBug708

03-15-2010, 10:09 PM

Is this where we hear about how the stats support Melo as being the most clutch player? :)

BishopMVP

03-15-2010, 11:38 PM

Steph Curry looks good running the point, but then he's -16 through 3 quarters. It can't help when your team is starting 2 D-League players against the Lakers.

Neuqua

03-15-2010, 11:56 PM

I love watching Steph Curry play.

whomario

03-16-2010, 05:14 AM

:+1:

Curry´s +- (and similar) numbers don´t look too good, but you can´t use them with a straight face when the Warriors (and Don nelson) are involved.

Take a look at Ellis´ numbers though, 12 (!) points worse when he´s on the court (and i admit that it didn´t translate into wins when he was out).
Those are ridiculous numbers. And those minutes he´s not playing mostly coincide with Curry playing instead and running the point, Curry´s numbers get dragged down when playing together with Ellis i guess as it feels like they are allways going on runs when Curry plays with Watson or Morrow (Ellis was right about them not being a good fit in the backcourt, only that amazingly he might be the odd man out afterall)

His defense needs work, but once he gets to play under an actual coach and next to an actual SG (and maybe with an actual big man or 2) that´ll improve by default.
But his offense :thumbsup: So fun to watch :popcorn:

Warriors got outrebounded 56-25 btw, that has to be some sort of record... They also forced Bynum and Bryant into 17 combined turnovers and commited just 5 all game themselves.
Just crazy numbers all around.

Proud of the Rockets not packing it in :) Chances of still making the playoffs are slim to none, but that´s ok this year.
Jordan Hill hasn´t looked half bad from what i´ve seen.
Anthony was amazing in the 2nd half !

EDIT : That last shot by Ellis that just missed was pretty sick, would have made an apearance in every "top plays of the season" list if that had gone in. But Anthony Morrow was wiiiiide open with his feet set just to his left ...

TroyF

03-16-2010, 12:46 PM

Is this where we hear about how the stats support Melo as being the most clutch player? :)

Well, hitting a contested, fade away three over Shane Battier isn't exactly easy for anyone to do, clutch or not. (even with the miss, Melo is about 20% points better than Kobe at last second shots) That was a frustrating game from a Nuggets fans perspective to watch. The Rockets threw in some absolute prayers, had 15 more FT attempts (despite playing more physical defense) and would not freakin die when they were supposed to die. Also yet another injury for the Nuggets. Anderson went down with a tweaked ankle and only played 16 minutes. No kenyon, no Ty and no Birdman for the fourth quarter, I can't believe this team continues to fight through all of this.

As the Nuggets tend to do, they also showed some incredibly poor management down the stretch. Melo hits a shot with 1:21 left to put the Nuggets up five. He then doesn't touch the ball until there are 20 second left in the game. (where he hits the game tying shot on a drive) Why the Nuggets felt the need to go away form a guy who was simply torching the Battier, Ariza and anyone else they wanted to put on him is beyond me. (also beyond me is how Jordan Hill took 7 free throws to Melo's 6 and only played 11 minutes.) It's stupidity like that which will cost the Nuggets in the playoffs if they aren't careful.

Just a tough loss. But also a happy one. Credit to Brooks (the guy hit some critical shots) and Scola (as we talked about earlier, amazing player)

Curry has vaulted over Evans on my ROY ballot. No disrespect to Evans, he's the guy who will probably win it. Curry just continues to play amazing basketball for an amazingly dysfunctional team. How he plays with Ellis and doesn't pull an Arenas type threat with a gun is beyond me. Ellis is just brutal.

MrBug708

03-16-2010, 11:29 PM

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute Official Website (http://www.mbahamoute12.com)

Great site, I love Luc Richard

Chief Rum

03-16-2010, 11:44 PM

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute Official Website (http://www.mbahamoute12.com)

Great site, I love Luc Richard

That is so funny, I was just about to post this, too. Great web site for a good young player and a great young man. I miss having The Prince in Westwood.

whomario

03-17-2010, 04:13 AM

apparently i deleted the part where i called the Timberwolves the laziest defensive team of the last 5 years, so instead of just quoting that i have to write it again : They are the laziest team of the last 5 years. For a young team that´s like a death sentence ...
But boy dd the Suns take advantage of that, holy smokes :eek: 152 points, 37 assists, 7 TOs and i can´t wait for the number of fast break points ...
Barbosa with his first game back :)

Thabeet 10/9 with 2 blocks starting for Gasol (strained neck) against the Bulls reserves (Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Rose out)

Lebron James is averaging 30/8/10 with just 2.5 TOs since the all star break (and basicall since the start of february) :eek:

TroyF

03-17-2010, 10:52 AM

Yeah, nice to see the TWolves show up last night. Ridiculous game.

I was going to post today about how you can tell it's playoff time for some of the huge stars in the league. Look at March numbers for some guys:

James - 28-9-9, 2.8 TO, 50% shooting
Wade - 30-5-8, 3.4 TO, 48% shooting
Melo - 29-8-4, 2.3 TO, 50% shooting
Kobe - 29-6-6, 4.0 TO, 45% shooting
Amare - 28-10, 55% shooting

I didn't throw in Dwight or Durant as they've stayed consistent. Many of the stars look like they are playing their best basketball headed into the postseason.

MikeVic

03-17-2010, 11:10 AM

It's going to be a good playoffs.

whomario

03-17-2010, 11:45 AM

Think so as well, really looking forward to it allready (well, basically since all star break, the regular season is too damn long).

In that post earlier pointing out the Timberwolves defensive "effort" i failed to make clear that i just love watching the Suns on offense. The Warriors i have trouble watching because they are just too damn chaotic and unstructured, but the Suns well oiled offense ? Great to watch.

Heck, they are leading the league in effective FG% for the 6th straight season and have been 1 or 2 for 3 seasons each in offensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions), that´s just amazing.

MikeVic

03-17-2010, 03:15 PM

Anyone watch the Miller vs Knicks doc on ESPN (TSN in Canada)? I thought it was well done. And I was happy with it. And then after the credits, they show one of my most hated plays in NBA history. I was so irate when it happened in 1999 (?), and then they had to show it... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Chief Rum

03-17-2010, 03:24 PM

MikeVic

03-17-2010, 03:33 PM

I'm going to need more information to figure out what play you're talking about.

The 4-point play by Larry Johnson. I hated that play so much, what a bad foul to call.

TroyF

03-17-2010, 03:44 PM

The 4-point play by Larry Johnson. I hated that play so much, what a bad foul to call.

That was a Stern call. Until he's gone and the reffing gets a complete revamp, we are going to see garbage like that continue. (Lakers/Kings fourth quarter, Jordan push off to win game, LJ 4 point play. . . it's comical how many times NBA refs have decided major games or series with calls where a 3 year old could do a better job)

Fidatelo

03-17-2010, 04:04 PM

I loved that LJ 4-point play, Gramma 'Ma was cool. You guys are haters.

TroyF

03-17-2010, 04:09 PM

I loved that LJ 4-point play, Gramma 'Ma was cool. You guys are haters.

I actually love LJ. . . loved Jordan. . . (I can't say the same about the Lakers)

The call was a joke. Not hating, just stating fact.

MikeVic

03-17-2010, 04:47 PM

I loved that LJ 4-point play, Gramma 'Ma was cool. You guys are haters.

Gramma 'Ma was alright. LJ was OK in my books until that 4-point play. Not his fault, but he became the face for one of my most hated plays ever.

Big Fo

03-17-2010, 09:18 PM

Hubie Brown giving CofC a shoutout after Anthony Johnson's fadeaway (plus the foul) <3

Nice to see Rashard Lewis having a good night after a poor stretch of late (hell, most of the season really).

whomario

03-19-2010, 07:28 PM

Durant just went 15-15 from the FT line in the first half against the Raptors, 71-44 Thunder. Bosh must on the verge of punching a couple of his teammates.
71 points in a half despite shooting just 41% from the field thanks to Durant´s FTs and 15 offensive rebounds (again, at the half this is).

Just thought i´d post that, haven´t seen anything from the game admittedly due to the NCAA tournament.

Rodney Stuckey back after his health scare :)

RainMaker

03-20-2010, 12:26 AM

Saw Lebron live tonight going against the Bulls D-League squad (Rose, Noah, Deng were out). Bulls actually kept it real close throughout and could have won it if they hit any sort of shots.

Lebron seemed to coast through the first 3 quarters. In fact, the Cavs were doing better with him on the bench. Bulls rookie James Johnson was doing a real good job on him. So the Bulls go on a nice run to tie it and Lebron decides he's had enough playing around and just puts them away. He hit a couple jumpers and had an amazing 3-point play (falling off balance he kind of threw it at the hoop one-handed). He is amazing.

I do wonder what he would be like if he stopped with the dancing and jokes and just went hardcore for a season. I think he could shatter some records and put up some ridiculous numbers (along with winning perhaps 70 games). He's just unstoppable when he wants to get serious. From a sheer domination standpoint, I want to say he might be better than Jordan. Jordan however had more passion for winning.

Goofy side note, but where the fuck did all the Cavs fans come from? I'd say about 10% of the fans were in Cavs attire (mostly Lebron jerseys) and cheering for him. I'm guessing if he ends up in New York next year, the Cavs fans will go back to zero at Bulls home games. The NBA has perhaps the most fairweathered fans of all sports. :)

whomario

03-20-2010, 08:37 AM

Warriors :lol: The Spurs scored 147 against them despite going 17/32 from the FT line, hitting just 6 threes and Ginobili plazing 22 minutes (23 and 11 assists) and Duncan 14 minutes (17/6/5 with no TO 8/8 from the field ...)

Spurs outrebound them 55/29, have 39 assists and shoot 65% from the field and had 121 points after the 3rd quarter :eek:

That Reggir Williams kid on the Warriors looks good, not just scoring but has nice bball iq and can pass the ball.

Darko with a real nice game against the Lakers, 16/12/3 with a block in 30 minutes... Had to leave the game though with what seemed like acute back spasms...

Suns win against the Jazz (no Kirilenko, Okur only 12 minutes) , Nash 15/10 but the real story were Brook Lopez (19/10) and Amare dominating Boozer/millsapp . Amare with a ridiculous scoring night : 44 points on 14-16 FG and 16-18 FTs. Zero Assists and 5 TOs, but lets not be picky ;)

Blazers win on a blatant travel by Roy. Seriously ...

miami_fan

03-20-2010, 09:32 AM

TroyF

03-23-2010, 07:25 PM

I simply give up. The Nuggets came out and said that Anthony Carter will get the majority of the backup minutes, even with Ty Lawson healthy. I hate every last coach who made the decision, I just can't say it enough. Watching the second unit suck ass against the Knicks now. Instead of Ty running up and down the floor wrecking havoc, I'm watching AC play ball like a retarded monkey. They scored 4 points in the six minutes AC played. He leaves and they hit a three on their first possession. I'm not one of those people who loves their favorite player so much and thinks he should play 48 minutes.

But if you simply watch the two players, there is no question who the better option is. This coaching staff is moronic.

DeToxRox

03-23-2010, 07:35 PM

I feel like it's in Denver's best interest to trade us Lawson for anyone on the roster not named Jerebko. Hell take our 1st round pick because Joe D is going to fuck it up.

DeToxRox

03-23-2010, 07:38 PM

So Chad Ford has the Pistons taking Al-Farouq Aminu in his latest mock. This concerns me because he is as tight with Joe D as he probably is with any other GM in the NBA. Aminu is yet another SF we would waste a pick on.

I am honestly concerned about this being the pick, it'd be the worst conceivable thing ever.

whomario

03-24-2010, 07:35 AM

@ TroyF : Did you see last nights Knicks-Nuggets game ? What did you think of Gallinari ? Impressed the heck out of me, going right at Melo and matching him striker for strike in the 2nd half. Melo got his, but Gallinari still played pretty decent defense on him and was very agressive on offense himself. I´m beginning to think he could actually become a good defender, definitely has the attitude and mindset to do so.
I mean, he´s regularly guarded the other teams best perimeter guy and not emberassed himself, did a great job on Joe Johnson a couple weeks ago as well and the Knicks are much better with him on the court than off.

Beaubois in march (10 games) : 13.3 PPG in 19 minutes, 56% shooting :) Last night ahead of Barrea on the depth chart after 2 games with spot minutes, right now he´s the better player.
The guy is a dynamite scorer off the bench.

The Phoenix-Golden State game 2 nights ago was unbelievably crazy, amazing atmosphere in Oakland and a full-on trackmeet with Don Nelson pulling a few crazy/great stunts, having Tollive distribute the ball from the high post and up (and having him bring it up as well) resulting in 25/12/5, running play after play for Reggie Williams resulting in 29 points on 10-16 shooting.
Both guys can play, Nellie or no Nellie ...

Phoenix with little good coming off the bench, but just enough to continue to play Nash just about 30 minutes (where he was a +15 in a 2 point game). Amare with 37/8 (12-15 FGs, 13-15 FT) and a ridiculous Fast Break dunk over Tolliver, measuring him up before going up and over him. Richardson had 34.
Stoudemire 30/10 in march on 60% from the field and just 17 FGA (due to 11 FTA and 87% shooting from the line).

stevew

03-24-2010, 07:25 PM

This is why I hate AC.

Summer of 2004(I think) his agent "forgets" to pick up a player option for approx 6M dollars. The Heat suddenly have cap room and offer brand(which was matched) and odom(which wasn't) max deals. The heat get Odom for free. And then trade him and caron butler for shaq after a year.

The heat go on to win a disgusting title based on superstar calls for wade.

The lakers win a couple years later.

JonInMiddleGA

03-25-2010, 06:21 AM

Don't care much, but the finish of the ATL-ORL game last night was pretty cool looking.

TroyF

03-25-2010, 10:50 AM

whomario,

I love Gallinari as a player. I think he's going to be very, very good. Actually picked him in a fantasy basketball keeper league and he's been a huge contributor to me all season long. The scary thing to me about him is if NY is able to get one of the stars to play with him. Wade or Lebron drawing a defense in and kicking to him? He'll be frightening to deal with.

The Nuggets are about toast. The longer they play without Kenyon, the more their defense gets exposed. Dantley may be a good coach down the road, but he's pretty bad at making any kind of major adjustment in a game. Carmelo is playing about the laziest defense he's ever player. (and that's saying something) And of course, they continue to play AC over Ty.

The last thing is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever seen this organization do. (and this is the Nuggets, I've seen some ridiculous things guys) On one hand you have a guy who shoots jumpers at an under 40% clip and draws fouls at a 2.9% rate. On the other you have a guy who shoots jumpers over 50% and draws fouls at a 13.9% clip. One guy has a roland rating of +2, the other guy has a -7. If you don't like stats, just watch the guys play. It's pure lunacy what they decided to do after Ty's injury and I think they'll pay dearly for it.

I expect the Nuggets to be 5th in the West by the end of their road trip. Even if the light bulb turns on and they start to give Ty the minutes he deserves, he'll be rusty from sitting for a month. Then Kenyon is going to come back and also be rusty. I can't see anyway this team is playing well by the time the playoffs start. 5th seed in the west? Death. You aren't winning a grueling series in Utah/Dallas/Phoenix and then beating LA.

Not happening. This team had a ton of potential, but it's blowing up fast. Very sad end to what has been a great year.

whomario

03-25-2010, 01:09 PM

JPhillips

03-25-2010, 05:42 PM

Leonsis has agreed on a price with the Pollin family for the Wizards and the Verizon Center. Should be interesting to see if he brings the same marketing savvy to the Wizards. It's also an open question whether the same stadium revenue plan(100% for the Wizards) will stay or if the Caps will get more money.

stevew

03-25-2010, 06:14 PM

Switch back to the bullets ASAP.

Groundhog

03-25-2010, 08:24 PM

Well, it's half-time at the United Center in Chicago, and the Bulls are down to the Heat 33-66... sheesh.

Big Fo

03-26-2010, 12:24 AM

Switch back to the bullets ASAP.

This.

Big Fo

03-27-2010, 10:14 AM

The Nets have won two in a row, giving them nine for the season and putting them in a tie with the 1972-73 Philadelphia 76ers. So at least they won't set a new record for futility.

whomario

03-27-2010, 10:45 AM

Way to go Nets ... :) Lopez and Yi also put up one of the better C/PF statlines of the year combining for 68 points on 26-33 shooting (14-16FTs), Lopez 37 and Yi 31.

Darko with 14/4/5 (all 5 assists leading to layups right at the rim), although just 7-16 from the field. Got into foul trouble in the 2nd half unfortunately.

Oklahoma beats the Lakers at home comfortably, holding them to 47 points through 3 quarters :eek:

San Antonio beats Cleveland, Manu Ginobili has been spectacular lately and added another great game with 30/6/6.

Seeding in the West still wide open, will be interesting how it plays out.

In the East Chicago still has a chance to sneak in if they somehow win a few games and Toronto keeps on sucking ...

Big Fo

03-27-2010, 11:05 AM

whomario, what do the highest paid players in Europe make? I'm asking because I heard Real Madrid offered Ginobili $14m per year, I was wondering if that would make him the highest paid player outside of the NBA.

TroyF

03-27-2010, 11:34 AM

Highest paid European players usually make in the 4 to 5 million range. The salaries have started to go up the last few years, but I think 14 million would make him the highest paid Euro by a long shot.

TroyF

03-27-2010, 11:43 AM

Nuggets won last night on a last second shot by Melo. For some unknown reason, they continue to give Anthony Carter 18 to 20 minutes a night despite having to play 4 on 5 on offense with him out there. Last night in the final 3 minutes, he threw up an air ball three then on the final Raptors possession Nene tipped the ball from Bosh, AC had it right in his hands and decided for some unknown reason to start running up the floor in a tie game with 20 seconds left. He lost the ball, Bosh recovered it and was fouled (well, he really wasn't fouled, but the moronic ref said he was) and went to the line with a chance to put the Raptors up 2.

I have no idea what the fascination with this guy is from the Nuggets staff. It's disgusting.

To me it seems like there is only one team in the west who wants the #2 seed. The Suns are playing some terrific basketball right now. Nuggets/Mavs/Jazz are all 6-4 in their last ten with some horrible losses.

whomario

03-27-2010, 11:55 AM

@ Big Fo : that would make him the highest paid by a landslide. That number is also purely fictional :) There was an "insider" claiming that there was "talk" about Real having an interest on his twitter (throwing in the fact that Manu´s old coach from Bologna is coaching Real), which was then picked up by slamonline (and linked) and then other ran with it, but obviously they had to one-up that by throwing an astronomical number in that was nowhere to be found in the original news or any spanish article picking it up.

Gotta love the ethics of media nowadays :popcorn:

As to the highest paid players in Europe, a lot is more guesswork than with the NBA (no salary cap = no need to specify), but according to talkbasket (http://www.talkbasket.net/salaries.html) and http://www.in-the-game.org :

<table style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="460"><tbody><tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><td align="right">1.
</td> <td align="left">Josh Childress
</td> <td align="left">Olympiacos
</td><td align="center">€4,500,000</td></tr> <tr style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <td align="right">2.
</td> <td align="left">Theodoros Papaloukas
</td> <td align="left">Olympiacos
</td><td align="center">€3,500,000</td></tr> <tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><td align="right">3.
</td><td align="left">Juan Carlos Navarro
</td><td align="left">Barcelona
</td><td align="center">€2,800,000</td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <td align="right">4.
</td> <td align="left">Matjaz Smodis
</td> <td align="left">CSKA Moscow
</td><td align="center">€2,500,000</td></tr> <tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><td align="right"> 5.</td><td>Linas Kleiza
</td><td>Olympiacos</td><td align="center">€2,300,000</td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <td align="right">6.
</td> <td align="left">Dimitris Diamantidis
</td> <td align="left">Panathinaikos
</td><td align="center">€2,100,000</td></tr> <tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><td style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" align="right">7.
</td><td align="left">Ramunas Siskauskas</td><td align="left">CSKA Moscow</td><td align="center">€2,000,000</td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><td align="right">8.
</td><td align="left">Gordan Giricek
</td><td align="left">Fenerbahce
</td><td align="center">€2,000,000</td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><td align="right">9.
</td><td align="left">Nikola Vujcic
</td><td align="left">Olympiacos
</td><td align="center">€2,000,000</td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><td align="right">10.
</td><td align="left">Vassilis Spanoulis</td><td align="left">Panathinaikos</td><td align="center">€1,900,000</td></tr></tbody></table>
times 1.35 to get the dollar equivalent and that´s post taxes. And they don´t have any numbers for a few players i´d suspect to be somewhere in that range, but you get the general idea here.

other sources come up with (sometimes very) different numbers.

There was talk that Delfino actually got paid about 9-10 mio dollars last year by his russian team, they also paid Garbajosa 3 mio Euros a year who is now at Real Madrid.

So if you factor in taxes (right about 45-50%, right ?) you can see the allure for players getting 3-5 mio dollar contracts (1.1-2.4 in Euros post taxes), but a guy like Ginobili certainly wouldn´t make that move for the money and wouldn´t be paid more in Europe than in the US, especially factoring in that he propably makes more in endorsements in the US.

Big Fo

03-27-2010, 12:12 PM

BreizhManu

03-27-2010, 12:25 PM

Rubio is apparently earning 1M€ before taxes (so around 700-800k€ post taxes).

whomario

03-27-2010, 12:25 PM

Thanks for the information.

The big Greek teams are big spenders compared to the rest of the teams you found info on. Out of curiosity I tried to find out what Ricky Rubio makes but a brief search was unsuccessful.

can´t help you there sorry. Numbers i´ve come across over the past few months ranged from as low as 600-800 K to as high as 1.5 mio Euros , no idea what´s correct here really. It´s just all a bit more complicated with no one controlling entity like the NBA in the US.

Propably right in between those numbers at a little over 1 mio. Even with the buyout propably not a money decicion afterall (in terms of earning money, not in terms of not loosing money) unless he really does wait until 2012, when by my knowledge he won´t be limited by the rookie scale and can sign at least for the full midlevel with Minnesota unless they have cap space or trade his rights to a team that has cap space that summer.

The greek teams possibly won´t keep that up seeing that the greek economy has totally imploded in recent months and is waist deep in the shit as of now.
But i don´t know enough about the greek teams really, just guessing.

TroyF

03-27-2010, 12:50 PM

One other advantage, at least from what I've gathered, is that most of those teams cover your housing and living costs (not slum like living either)

TroyF

03-27-2010, 12:53 PM

One other quick note: Rubio cost himself MILLIONS with his decision to go to Europe rather than buy himself out. I've heard his family and others put huge pressure on him to stay as well as his want to go to a NY instead of Minnesota. . . but he's going to push back his unrestricted FA back. It was a really poor move if you just look at the dollar value of it.

whomario

03-27-2010, 11:58 PM

BEAUBOIS !!! :):):)

Couldn´t sleep (mind you, it´s 7 am here now ...) and turned on the Dallas-Warriors game and the little frenchie has given the Warriors a taste of their own medicine.
40 points on 15-22 shooting, 9-11 threes, adding 8 boards, 3 assist and 0 TOs. And 3 blocks for good measure.
Warriors or no Warriors, that was a sight to behold.

He has been absolutely spectacular lately, what a steal for the Mavs. Could be the x factor in the playoffs and will be interesting how Carlisle shapes his rotation. Right now it would be a crime to leave him out of games with the way he´s been playing.
Not that Barea has benn bad, but the kid has been spectacular and also is the better defender.

Just love that kid´s attitude. Every time he´s gotten minutes he produced. As far as handling spot minutes and unsteady playing time i can´t remember many rookies doing a better job.
Against the Clippers scores 10 in the 4th quarter in a come from behind victory, next game he doesn´t play at all with Barea getting the minutes again and now plays big minutes and explodes. Has done that all season. No sulking, allways ready.

12 times gotten 20+ minutes, 11 times scoring in double figures.

Only thing worrying me lately about the Mavs is they can´t get a good balance between playing Dampier and Haywood, today they didn´t even bother and played Haywood just 9 minutes and Dampier has a DNP CD.

TroyF

03-28-2010, 01:51 AM

whomario, I love the kid. Love him, love him, love him.

But the Warriors are playing some of the worst defense in the history of the league right now. The Spurs scored 147 points on 96 shots and MISSED 15 FT a week ago. This is just a really, really bad team.

That said, I have no idea why the kid isn't playing more. NBA coaches simply fall in love with veterans and screw rookies over, even when it's obvious to everyone else in the world the rookie is better. Ty Lawson is going through it right now. This guy is going through the same thing. All you can do is shake your head in astonishment.

whomario

03-29-2010, 10:57 AM

Let me present Manu Ginobili, a man who kills bats, invented the flying-sideways-flop, scares children for fun and now (legally) leveled that "big bad dude who picks on smaller players, preferably internationals" :

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="<A href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCqefcY7lpI&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param">http://www.youtube.com/v/hCqefcY7lpI&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCqefcY7lpI&hl=de_DE&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqefcY7lpI

Plus he sank a nice little 30 foot one handed floater to beat the Buzzer :

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="<A href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSEriznocFo&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param">http://www.youtube.com/v/qSEriznocFo&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSEriznocFo&hl=de_DE&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqefcY7lpI

nothing too spectacular for his standards, but pretty good for the untrained eye :D

Manu´s month of march :

15 games, 22.4/4.4/5.5/52%/42%/89% in 31 minutes a game. Plus about 3 play-of-the-day caliber plays per night.

Glad he´s found his magic once more.

I´m not so sure the Spurs won´t be able to turn some heads in the playoffs, assuming Parker gets healthy they match up pretty well all in all ...

Portland with an impressive win in Oklahoma City.

Orlando beats Denver thanks to Redick (23/7/8) and Anderson 19/5 on 7-8 shooting with 4/5 threes stepping up big.
Carter down with an injury ...

Chief Rum

03-31-2010, 11:58 PM

Ping: TroyF, whomario, anyone else who cares...

Clips are having a great deal on tickets right now to try to get people in the building and me and my brother bought in. We have seats on the floor, 17 rows back from the court for this Sunday's game against the Knicks.

Anything you guys want me to call out to Gallinari, or should I just spend the evening telling Blake Griffin he sits behind the bench as good as any rookie I have ever seen?

stevew

04-01-2010, 12:35 AM

Cavs magic number is 2 to clinch homecourt throughout. might be nice to be able to rest LeBron for 3-4 games.

whomario

04-01-2010, 03:25 AM

Anything you guys want me to call out to Gallinari, or should I just spend the evening telling Blake Griffin he sits behind the bench as good as any rookie I have ever seen?

just ask him what´s he compensating for, running around like a douchebag with that "haircut" and all. That should go down just as well :D

What´s considered "a great deal" that gets people to come and see Clippers games btw, free entry and all-you-can-drink/eat on top ? http://sportforen.de/images/smilies/saint.gif

whomario

04-01-2010, 05:52 AM

Nowitzki had a triple double btw a couple nights 34/10/10 (with just 2 TOs) against the Nuggets, the 2nd of his career :) Ty lawson played 20 minutes and Carter just 5, that should make one guy here very happy ;)

Last night another big win against memphis to stay in 2nd place, Nowitzki finding his touch late in the game.

Dallas with their 10th 50-win season in a row-

Minnesota wins a game :eek:

Jefferson (19/12 with 6 blocks), Love (12/11) and Milicic (15/10 with 4 blocks) all have double-doubles, that rotation might just work next year. Definitely not the biggest need to upgrade.
Ryan Gomes 9/8/8 to round that out.

Toronto getting closer to a playoff spot.

Lakers loose by 17 in Atlanta, not exactly a good road trip (+ Kobe lost it last game, totally pissed off). Hawks shot 55% and had just 5 TOs.
Lakers are a thin team beyond their top 6.

OKC wins in Boston despite the Celtics shooting 60% from the field, Durant with 37.

Phoenix with their 9th win in a row, just 1 game behind No2 Dallas and half a game behind Utah. This time good contribution from the bench with Frye, Dragic and Dudley in double figures. I´m telling you, this Suns team is good and only getting better. And they are playing without Lopez right now (don´t laugh, he´s made a huge difference this year as a 2nd dump-down option for nash and protecting the basket).
Would love for them to avoid Denver and San Antonio ...

Shaun Livingston with 18 points and 8 Assists for the Wizards :)

TroyF

04-02-2010, 01:52 PM

Yes, I was thrilled whomario. Then last night came. Ty plays great in the first half and Anthony Carter gets all the minutes in the second half. Carter 17 minutes, Lawson 8.

For those who don't watch the Nuggets and are getting sick of me complaining about it, let me throw a stat out there for you.

In Anthony Carter's last 101 minutes of basketball, he's scored 4 points on 2-11 shooting. Ty Lawson has played 28 minutes the last two games and has scored 12 points on 6-11 shooting, AND HE'S STILL RUSTY. I swear, Adrian Dantley should be fined by the team for screwing up the end of the season.

Did you see the game last night whomario? I'm asking this not as a Nuggets fan, but as a basketball fan. Can you believe what they called on Melo last night? His first, second and fourth fouls were all badly blown. II see this constantly and I don't get it. Andre Miller was treated like Michael Jordan last night. Melo couldn't buy a call for 3.5 quarters.

Everytime I watch Orlando, I'm more convinced they are going to win the title this year. The Cavs only chance is to get the refs to give a few cheap fouls to Dwight every first half. Because when he's in there, you aren't getting an offensive board. And Orlando can struggle shooting the ball for 10 minute stretches because their defense is so good and when they do hit some shots, they'll bury 4 threes in a row on you. Orlando/Cleveland is going to be one hell of a series.

Suns might be the best team in basketball right now.

Kenyon Martin is running again and hopes to be back before the end of the regular season. If he's back near full strength, the Nuggets are going to be a brutal out in the playoffs. If he isn't, they'll go down in round one.

Chief Rum

04-02-2010, 02:28 PM

Shaun Livingston with 18 points and 8 Assists for the Wizards :)

If Shaun can start being consistent and get a chance at regular time with some team, this would be a wonderful comeback. Really just a terrific kid when he was out here with the Clips; always laughing and smiling and working hard and tons of potential. My heart broke when his knee gave out so horrifically.

Chief Rum

04-02-2010, 02:30 PM

just ask him what´s he compensating for, running around like a douchebag with that "haircut" and all. That should go down just as well :D

What´s considered "a great deal" that gets people to come and see Clippers games btw, free entry and all-you-can-drink/eat on top ? http://sportforen.de/images/smilies/saint.gif

Heh...in this case, $60 for seats that are normally worth three times that.

I do hope "free entry" is included. I wouldn't want to watch from the parking lots. ;)

TroyF

04-02-2010, 02:30 PM

If Shaun can start being consistent and get a chance at regular time with some team, this would be a wonderful comeback. Really just a terrific kid when he was out here with the Clips; always laughing and smiling and working hard and tons of potential. My heart broke when his knee gave out so horrifically.

I hope that guy can make it back. I really, really do. With you all the way Chief.

RainMaker

04-02-2010, 03:47 PM

whomario

04-02-2010, 06:18 PM

Heh...in this case, $60 for seats that are normally worth three times that.

I do hope "free entry" is included. I wouldn't want to watch from the parking lots. ;)

actually i was wondering if in fact the Clippers pay you (free food and drink, no entry fee) to visit their games ;)

@ TRoyF : Couldn´t, i am at home visiting for the long weekend and can´t get the internet connection to stay stable ...
I disagree about the Cavs-Magic scenario you describe. Said it before and still feel that way : Howard won´t win that series for them, see a good chance of him struggling (or at least not dominating) with the Shaq/Ilgauskas combination. They can also play Varejao on him with Jamison likely matching up with Lewis a lot.

Sublime 2

04-02-2010, 06:59 PM

Ryan Gomes 9/8/8 to round that out.

Man, I miss that guy. Just really seems like such a good guy all around. I loved him Providence, and then loved him Boston. I think he'd really be a great bench/role player on a contender.

stevew

04-02-2010, 08:47 PM

The magic won't beat the Cavs again. Lewis is not going to shoot 85% on clutch fade away threes in the 4th quarter again. I've finally come to terms that it was just an anomaly. We have enough big dudes to foul Howard 25 times a game. It aint happening again.

Write it down. Friday April 2. Cavs are a team of destiny! :)

Big Fo

04-02-2010, 09:07 PM

Without that Game 2 buzzer beater it would have been a sweep, Orlando was clearly the better team. It was about as much of an anomaly as the Lakers beating the Magic in the Finals.

Can't forget the ESPN "experts" predictions going into the series last year.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hs2c1d.jpg

RainMaker

04-03-2010, 12:20 AM

I think the Cavs were a better team in the sense that they would have been tougher on the Lakers. But I think Orlando was a really bad matchup for them.

whomario

04-03-2010, 05:35 AM

If Shaq is healthy i don´t see them being a bad matchup anymore ...

Boston looses to the Rockets (without Martin, Ariza and Battier) :) Larry Birdinger with 24 points on 9-24 shooting, 6-8 from 3 :) And a ridiculous shot in OT. Scola 27/11, Brooks 30 points.
And Chuck Hayes is amazing, hope he still has a role next year. Just playing outside his comfortzone/capabilities this year, but as a 15 minute guy off the bench depending on matchups ... Defended

Suns keep on winning while keeping Nashs minutes down, just 25 tonight.

Magic looses to the Spurs, foul trouble (and 2-11 ft shooting with Pop busting out a hack-a-howard to which Dwight reacted interesting ... He hasn´t improved one bit there) for Howard. Very loose whistles on both sides, Howard and Duncan couldn´t breathe without getting called for sth ...
Manu dismantled them to the tune of 43-6-5, shooting 13-25 from the field and 14-17 from the line.
The guy is so unbelievably good when he´s healthy, will go down as one of the most underrated guys ever when in 5 or 10 years people will only look at his overall stats.
22.4/4.5/5.7 in just under 32 minutes since the Allstar break.

Cleveland beats Atlanta, James 27/13/6. His assist average for the season is remarkable.
According to basketball-reference he is the only Forward to ever average 8+ games for a season (Bird, Havlicek and Grant Hill the only ones over 7)
the only 6´7+ guys to ever record 8+ assists are Magic, Chamberlain, Reggie Theus and Clyde Drexler.

GS-NY with a wild affair as expected. David Lee using the Warriors effect to put up 37/20/10 :eek: (first 30/20/10 since Kareem in 1976). Gallinari 29.
Morrow with 35 on 16-23 shooting.

Please let the Warriors win 2 more games and then Nelson has a reason to retire with that stupid record in hand...

Lakers win against the Jazz by 14 despite Bryant going 5-23...

TroyF

04-03-2010, 04:47 PM

everyone thinks I'm talking about Dwight torching the Cavs on offense for some reason. I'm not. I'm talking about how Dwight will control the defensive boards. And the Magic will drill three pointers. Over and over and over again.

Lewis hitting 85% from three in the fourth? Ok. Accept that he only hit two three pointers in the fourth quarter combined in the last three Magic wins of that series.

Everyone remembers that Howard torched them for 40 points in the final game, not many realize the Magic hit 12-29 threes in that game. Dwight torched them because the Cavs had no answer to the three point shooters.

Look at game 2 last year. Dwight scored 10 points. Lebron scored 35 (with his last coming on the long three) The Cavs won the rebounding battle. Controlled Dwight. James played well. And they barely snuck out with a win.

They then sent Dwight to the line 48 times in the final three games of the series. And they still lost 2 of the 3 games.

We'll see when the games play out, but I do not see Cleveland beating this Orlando team if Dwight can get in 35 minutes each night.

whomario

04-03-2010, 07:46 PM

whomario

04-03-2010, 09:07 PM

RainMaker

04-03-2010, 09:18 PM

Andrew Bogut just had his arm shattered after a dunk attempt loosing grip hanging on the rim and falling down with his arm trapped underneath his body, fuck ... That´s one to give you nightmares ... No way he´s healthy for the playoffs, that looked like everything in the ellbow area was broken/ripped with nothing holding the arm together anymore.
Oh man ....
Dislocated elbow. Looks much worse than it is. Actually happens a lot in rec leagues and such. Timetable is all about how bad it was and if it did any additional damage. Could be done for the year or could be back by the playoffs.

Tough break though as they had been playing real well since the Salmons trade.

whomario

04-04-2010, 06:30 AM

Bucks lose Bogut for the season - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/89851432.html)

:banghead: :(

TroyF

04-04-2010, 01:08 PM

the 3 point shooting all starts with Howard, though. IF Shaq is healthy and can put a body on Howard for 30 minutes, this will enable the Cavs to play more closely on the perimeter. The Magic are not good at generating offense from the heart of the defense with dribble penetration, they play off of the attention teams pay to Dwight, go in 10 feet and then kick it out. If you don´t have to do that as much they struggle.
So i don´t put stock into last year. This year they are 2-1 and in the loss got a combined 4-22 from Williams/Parker/West. THey got Howard into foul trouble both of the other games, outrebounded the Cavs in all 3 games.

Anthony Parker is a big addition defensively as he´s a great, great guy at closing in on shooters and gives them a legit defender against 2-guards for the first time ever. They also have a vastly improved PF-situation with Jamison,Hickson and Varejao sliding down from the 5. For god sake, they played Szerbiak 15-20 minutes at the 4 last year :eek:

I guess you could look at the regular season like that. Here is how I look at the regular season this year:

Game 1 - Orlando is on a back to back (and 3rd in 4 nights) without Lewis while the Cavs have rested for 5 days. Big shock, Orlando loses.

Game 2 - Orlando travels to Cleveland playing their 4th game in 5 nights. Cleveland is is at the end of a 7 game home stand and has played only the Nets and Knicks in the previous seven days. Big shock, Orlando loses.

Game 3 - Both teams come into the game with the same amount of rest. The Cavs are missing Big Z due to the trade. And it's a dead repeat of last year. Lebron goes crazy. The Cavs secondary players can't get over the Magic length on the perimeter and suck from three point land. The Magic hit 8 threes, Dwight plays 44 minutes, and down the stretch they hit all the shots they need to. Game over.

Game 4 - Yet to be played, will be meaningless.

My overall read? Nothing. Orlando was at a huge disadvantage the first two games. The Cavs were missing Z in the last one. I still think Orlando wins a seven game series between the teams.

Eaglesfan27

04-04-2010, 01:09 PM

Stupid play by the Cavs to let the Celtics roll the boll to midcourt to get off a good 3 to end the half up 64-49.

whomario

04-04-2010, 03:01 PM

James with one of those games where the combination of coasting early, lack of concentration/fundamentals on the FT line and terrible shot selection get the best of Lebron. I mean, 14-22 FTs isn´t terrible, but as a star player on the perimeter ? And clearly getting everything he wants, his teammates hitting from outside (Parker, Williams, Jamison combined 7-8) and still chucking up 9 threes and not hitting a single one ?

And how ridulous is it that Jamison shoots 45% from the FT line as a Cav and 38% in march ? THe guy shot right about 75% for most of his career.

@ TroyF : My bad for not taking that into acount, i basically went with "how i remember the matchups" and just glanced over the boxscores without looking at the context. Still, i think the additions of Shaq, Parker and Jamison will help them a lot against the Magic and i see them matching up very, very well this year.
I know the Magic also upgraded, but the Cavs adjusted to them well imo.

sooner333

04-04-2010, 03:07 PM

Thunder clinched the playoffs! Hard to believe, but it's really awesome. Apparently a decent-sized group met the team at the airport to cheer when they got back from Dallas, which was pretty cool. The players thought so too on their tweets, and apparently Nick Collison drove back around to thank the fans for coming. The Ford Center will be ROCKING! I was at the first game last year, and now I'm trying to figure out how much I'll be willing to pay to be at the first playoff game.

Cuckoo

04-04-2010, 03:47 PM

...and now I'm trying to figure out how much I'll be willing to pay to be at the first playoff game.

Exactly my thoughts. :party:

whomario

04-04-2010, 06:10 PM

Oklahoma´s turnaround is amazing, great story and a great team. Playoffs in the west could be epic this year. Still very much possible that all 8 teams will be 50 win teams.

Manu Ginobili is just pure awesomness when he is healthy, those last 15 games or so since Parker went out have been sth else. He´s not even playing huge minutes, but so, so effective and explosive. 25.5 PPG in about 31 MPG, shooting over 50% and over 45% from 3, over 5 assists.
Tonight good in the first half, very quiet in the 3rd quarter, than takes over in the 4th with 17 points on a variety of shots, layups and floaters.
Why the Lakers insisted on putting Artest on him is beyond me. Pretty funny that Artest tried to get into his head. Seriously Ron, have you seen the dude play before ? Since when does Ginobili get nervous ? :confused:

Duncan looked alive, too. George Hill twisted his ankle though and McDyess also came down funny ...

The Rockets need to be aware that they are going to have to get back to getting a different mentality defensively again over the summer. I realize they are undersized all year and under-manned recently, but still you have to give more effort.
72 points on 65% shooting at the half for the pacers. Birdinger continues his strong play though :)

sterlingice

04-04-2010, 08:33 PM

I'm still trying to see how the pieces fit together for the Rockets next year. I just see at least 2 pieces (Brooks + ??) being traded this offseason. I just don't know how things are going to look but I trust Morey to do a good job.

SI

Chief Rum

04-05-2010, 12:48 AM

It was a fun game tonight at Staples. It was pretty neat being so close to the action. We were right above the home team entrance/exit, so we got to see the Clips come in right underneath us at halftime and after the game. Baron looked up at us, but I wasn't expecting it, so I missed taking a picture. Two good shots at Kaman, but he never looked up (got a good shot of the top of his now shaved head). Best shot was of EG, kinda looking up as he passed under.

Unfortunately, I just got a new phone (an I Phone), and I can't seem to find any advanced controls for working the camera. So I couldn't really focus to get any good action shots or anything like that.

Clips played a decent game, but just didn't hit the shots they needed to at the end of the game. At least it was close, a fun game to watch, and the place was rockin' at the end.

There was an old couple sitting a couple rows behind us that became the focus of the Kiss Cam. Old guy was just flat refusing to budge for the longest time, but the Kiss Cam operator kept on him, and the wife started to bug him, too. So he finally break down and gave her a chaste kiss. Arena exploded in cheers. That's what passes for fun at a Clips game. ;)

Some tall white guy with a jarhead haircut was getting interviewed in the tunnel during the game at one point, although it was strange, the reporter looked like a TV guy and they were clearly doing an interview (mike going back and forth, etc.), but no camera in sight. Weird. Never recognized the interviewee. My brother and I settled on maybe Detlef Schrempf (his kid's a walk on at UCLA), but we really just pulled Schrempf out of our collective ass. If I ever figure out how to put my pics on computer and then the Net, I'll post a pic and see if anyone can guess. ;)

bhlloy

04-05-2010, 01:31 AM

Tall, white, jarhead - it's gotta be Detlef. Either that or Chris Mullin.

Chief Rum

04-05-2010, 01:34 AM

Tall, white, jarhead - it's gotta be Detlef. Either that or Chris Mullin.

lol...it wasn't Mullin! :)

whomario

04-07-2010, 07:25 AM

Has anyone seen the Oklahoma-Utah game last night ? Active defense (not effective obviously, but an effort was made), ridiculous offense on both sides, OT and a a questionable call on Duran´ts last shot in Utah = instant classic.

Definitely among the best regular season games i´ve seen, ever.

Durant was spectacular obviously, Williams the same for Utah. Role players stepped up as well. Great game overall. And as of now would be a first-round matchup.
Although, 6,7,8 are 1 game apart and 2,3,4,5 are just 1/2 game apart. Pretty crazy.

Ibaka keeps getting better and better imo ... His last 12 games a raw +- of +49 with the thunder as a team being +59 btw which is pretty good, better bench play overall and slightly different rotation can do that. 7.5/6.3 with nearly 2 blocks in march/april in 20 minutes a game. Multiple game changing plays theese last few weeks plus absolutely stunning displays of athleticism as usual (youtube him).
Had a monster block on Duncan to win a game recently, that wa sunreal. I just love the kid :)

In the east Toronto stays 1 game above Chicago but Bosh might be out with a broken bone in his face ...

Cuckoo

04-07-2010, 07:58 AM

Heartbreaker for the Thunder. They put on an incredible display of shooting just to get back in it, down 14 or something with like 3 minutes to play, and then after the back and forth in OT, that no-call just hurts. The announcers made me think they called it, but then the Jazz continued celebrating. I wasn't really paying attention to the foul live, but he certainly got him on the forearm after seeing the replay. I know the refs don't want to decide a game, but that's a tough one to take.

Still, though, along with the Boston/OKC game last week, one of the best I've seen this year.

Big Fo

04-07-2010, 10:14 AM

I didn't watch the game but it looked like an amazing fourth quarter and overtime from the highlights.

I can't wait for the Western Conference playoffs. The East won't be very interesting until the second round and even then I'd be surprised if the ECFs turned out to be anything but Orlando - Cleveland. But out West a number of teams all have strong squads, I could even see the Lakers going down at some point although they're obviously big favorites.

whomario

04-07-2010, 10:58 AM

right now the Lakers are really struggling and their lack of bench-depth gets exposed with Bynum out. And there´s no guarantee that he´ll be back for the playoffs and than no guarantee that he´ll play good ball (see last year for reference) and then i don´t think that it´s a sure thing they beat a team like Portland, San Antonio or Oklahoma in the first round. Favourites yes, but not as heavy as people make them out to be. I need to see that "other gear" in order to believe they have it.

LloydLungs

04-08-2010, 10:50 AM

MikeVic

04-08-2010, 12:23 PM

lol anyone see Melo last night? He was lying on the court apparently injured, and the game kept going on. J.R. Smith even drove right past him. Call a time out dude!!

TroyF

04-08-2010, 01:18 PM

MikeVic

04-08-2010, 01:30 PM

Didn't see the game (was traveling), but it doesn't surprise me much. JR is about as dumb as a rock.

Huge win for Denver last night. OKC was off a b2b and 4th in 5 nights, but it was a game Denver had to get. Four games left for the Nuggets:

vs. Lakers
vs. Spurs
vs. Grizz
@ Suns (b2b)

They take 3 of 4, they win the division. (they hold the tiebreaker on Utah) 3 wins against that group is not easy though. Obviously, the Lakers game tonight is huge. You don't want to make @Suns a must win game on a back to back.

I still think they may go down in round one. Not playing Lawson and anything less than a solid Kenyon and they will lose.

It was a really odd sequence of events. Melo bumped into Durant, and it looked like his neck got hurt or something. Melo dropped to the ground, traveling was called on him... and he just laid there, not moving. The ball went back up in OKC's possession, Denver got it back, and still Melo is laying in the key. Smith drives in, he either misses or loses the ball or something... and finally the game is stopped.

Wolfpack

04-08-2010, 11:11 PM

George Shinn is selling the Hornets. Never thought I would see the day. I would argue that this could be the best thing to ever happen to pro basketball in New Orleans, even above drafting Chris Paul (since this sale could greatly help us KEEP him). The new owner is a lifetime local and far, far richer than Shinn. I am about as pumped as a fan of a 35-44, injury-riddled, bad contract-riddled, quitting non-playoff team can be.

I'm sure there are a few people in Charlotte who are alternating cheering and cursing that this happened. Cheering because Shinn is the villain who pretty much screwed up the NBA in Charlotte with his personal problems and public fight for a new arena, cursing because he didn't sell the Hornets when they were still in Charlotte. Yes, the Bobcats have made the playoffs at last, but the buzz clearly isn't there yet for them like it was for the Hornets. They're moving the needle some now, but it's going to take a while, if ever, for the Bobcats to come close to what the Hornets had, though.

TroyF

04-09-2010, 09:35 AM

Thanks to the Lakers resting Kobe and Carmelo Anthony torching Ron Artest all night, the Nuggets got the game they needed last night. Magic number for the division is now 2. The Nuggets now scoreboard watch tonight.

Dallas @ Portland, Utah @ NO, Phoenix @ OKC

The OKC one is probably the most interesting. The Spurs have said they'll do everything they can to avoid playing the Lakers. They are tied with OKC and Portland for the final spot. If OKC and Portland win, the Spurs will face a huge game in Denver tomorrow. They also play Dallas on the final day of the regular season in a game that could decide the 8th and 2nd spots in the west.

It's amazing to me that with 3 or 4 games left, the wests 2-8 spots are 100% up for grabs. Denver, Dallas, Utah, Phoenix going for spots 2-5 and Potland, OKC and San Antonio battling for spots 6-8.

LloydLungs

04-09-2010, 09:56 AM

I'm sure there are a few people in Charlotte who are alternating cheering and cursing that this happened. Cheering because Shinn is the villain who pretty much screwed up the NBA in Charlotte with his personal problems and public fight for a new arena, cursing because he didn't sell the Hornets when they were still in Charlotte. Yes, the Bobcats have made the playoffs at last, but the buzz clearly isn't there yet for them like it was for the Hornets. They're moving the needle some now, but it's going to take a while, if ever, for the Bobcats to come close to what the Hornets had, though.

It's weird. The guy has been so stubborn holding on to the Hornets. He had all kinds of opportunities in Charlotte to sell, people were begging him to sell. Same thing in Oklahoma -- there were multiple groups that would have been only too happy to take the team off his hands and he could have cashed out in a big way. He stated numerous times he would never sell the team, this was his life, the team would be passed down through the generations, etc.

Then he gets prostate cancer this year, apparently gets some sort of priority shift after facing his own mortality (I dunno), and bam, team sold. I think it probably has more to do with his being a poor owner in a business that has some VERY rough times ahead in the next couple of years. But whatever -- New Orleans is the lucky beneficiary. All the constant "poor organization, cash-strapped, financial woes, etc etc" is pretty much going away, because Gary Chouest is loaded -- an extremely independently wealthy basketball junkie -- on paper, the best kind of owner to have. I'm psyched.

whomario

04-09-2010, 02:58 PM

Bill Simmons wrote a pretty epic column on how Rasheed Wallace is basically a deeply irritating and frustrating player. Nothing new here, but very well written and was propably never covered that conclusive before : Bill Simmons: Smoke and mirrors - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100407&sportCat=nba)

Big Fo

04-11-2010, 12:44 AM

Barcelona beat Real Madrid in soccer and basketball on the same day. This amuses me for some reason.

whomario

04-11-2010, 06:42 AM

in Basketball they are 7-1 this season in the various competitions (league, cup, euroleague) :)
been a huge barca fan in soccer since i was 10 or so and got to watch a game in Nou Camp.

Last night another reminder as to how freakish Nowitzki can be :

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that shooting ability at his size continues to amaze me even after all this years :)

Has also made 68 FTs in a row now, breaking his own franchise record

whomario

04-12-2010, 04:13 AM

Lakers loose their 6th game of their last 9 in a pretty strange finish against the Blazers (down 1 Bryant misses 2 FTs and Fisher misses 1, then Webster gets fouled on what would be a wild 3 point attempt and sinks all 3)
Uh, oh ... Bryant looked terrible most of the night (although credit goes to Batum and Webster) and other than Gasol and Odom really no one else looked even decent.
Blazers had Roy leave the game in the first half with a knee injury ...

So, with 2 games to go the west standings now show 3-way ties for 3-5 as well as 6-8 :D

-And Dallas just 1 game ahead of the 3 teams behind. I think that 1 game guarantees them homecourt advantage and the 2nd seed. But i gave up figuring out what could happen here in terms of seeding and homecourt advantage which isn´t the same to cap off the madness ...

-Denver and Utah also tied for the division title right now, Denver has the tiebreaker right now (3-1). Phoenix can´t go up higher than 4th i think due to the division-champ being guaranteed the 3 seed.

-Phoenix plays both Denver (at home) and Utah (in SLC) in their last 2 games :D
If they beat Utah they will be 2:2 against them and due to having won more games against Western Conference Teams, if they beat Denver they´ll be 3-1 against Denver .
Everything else makes my brain hurt ...

-San Antonio has the tiebreaker on OKC but not against Portland.

-Oklahoma and Portland play again tonight, if Oklahoma wins it´s 2-2 but OKC has a better record within the division.

Plus i wouldn´t have any idea which team would/should rather play what other team.

-In the East Chicago beats Toronto to move 1 game ahead of them. However, Toronto plays Detroit and New York while Chicago plays Boston and Charlotte and Toronto has won the season series 2-1.

-Miami and Milwaukee are tied for 5th righ now, Boston 1 game behind Atlanta (Atlanta won the season series 4-0, but Boston´s division crown would make them 3rd if tied, however if they´d meet in the POs Atlanta would then have homecourt) ...

You know what ? I quit :D I´ll just avoid looking at the standings until thursday morning.

whomario

04-12-2010, 04:32 AM

Honestly, right now i could see basically everyone but Portland and Oklahoma advance to the finals in the West (and those 2 could very well win their first round series). But sooo many question marks.

The Lakers desperately need Bynum back and really back this time (not like last year where he couldn´t get anything going upon returning), so that one of their 3 bigs can play more with the 2nd unit which is struggling badly to create good shots.

If Robin Lopez gets healthy (getting evaluated today ...) i see the Suns as a really, really dangerous team with how their bench has improved and Nash/Stoudemire looking as lethal a combination as they did a couple years ago.
Plus now they have a explosive scorer at the 2 again with Richardson and if Lopez is healthy that gives them another dimension without taking away their running game as he´s a) not 38 years old and b) not a feature on offense you have to wait for.

How is Kenyon Martin´s health for Denver and how are they going to play without a headcoach on the sidelines ?

Can Dallas balance playing 2 big Centers and bring out 3 guard lineups regularly ? They´ve almost got too many options right now. Marion has been injured, too.

How healthy is Tony Parker for the Spurs, what has Duncan left in the tank ? Can Ginobili continue to play like that ?

Is Kirilenko healthy for Utah ? Okur also missed their last game.

Oklahoma needs to get back to playing consistent defense, they´ve tried to outscore other teams too often lately.

Portland is solid, but i just can´t wrap my head around them winning a series, let alone go further. But then again, next to Roy/Aldridge they´ve got an upgrade at PG, Batum is improved and Webster added to the bench along with an improved Bayless.

It´s going to be amazing and i´m going to miss most of it being on a trip through Norway, somehow i doubt i´ll catch much of the NBA there ...

RainMaker

04-13-2010, 10:53 PM

The Bulls organization has started turning a little Isiah-ish. John Paxson (GM) attacked Vinny Del Negro after a game a few weeks ago when he played Noah over the minutes they wanted him to play.

And huge win for the Bulls tonight. The "Defensive All-NBA" Rajon Rondo got clowned so hard by Rose that they had to put him on the bench for Nate Robinson in the closing minutes. I hope that puts an end to the ridiculous Defensive Player of the Year talk surrounding him.

DaddyTorgo

04-13-2010, 10:54 PM

RainMaker

04-13-2010, 11:11 PM

McSweeny

04-13-2010, 11:49 PM

Sorry, Rondo does what he needs to do with his size (get a lot of steals). I would consider him a good defender because of it. But I don't think you can be considered a great defender until you can tell someone to shut down player X and he does it.

Do you feel that Rajon Rondo can shut down any star player in this league defensively?

Nope. He racks up tons of steals because he gambles so much. His gambling wasn't much of a problem when he had a healthy Garnett playing behind him, but now with a gimpy Garnett behind him, it leads to an easy two points when he gambles and loses. He also has an alarming tendency to get lazy and fail to stay in front of his man.

Overall I'd say he's a pretty solid defender, but he could be a top defender if he gets more consistent.

whomario

04-14-2010, 04:13 AM

Suns secure home court, but no Robin Lopez in the first round. Their play the last few weeks has been great though, the bench has stepped up big time even with Barbosa still searching for a rythm and a role.

Highly impressed by their season, 53 wins (and 1 game left) and home court when a lot of people didn´t even grant them a good shot at reaching the playoffs.
21-5 and 28-8 to close out the season.
As long as they don´t face the Spurs (kryptonite ...) i see them having a decent shot at advancing to the 2nd round the way teams have been playing and considering they looked great against Denver the last 3 meetings and Portland likely hasn´t Roy available, which you can overcome for a game or 2 but not a series imo.

Oklahoma-Lakers should be fun, hope Thabo does his best Shane Battier impersonation on Bryant.

Them, Portland and Oklahoma are the pleasant surprises in the West Playoffs definitely.

Boston has been highly mediocre for a while now. Remember, they started the year 23-5...

As for Rondo : I tend to agree that he gambles too much, but getting lit up by a player really isn´t that big of a deal. Happens to everyone.
The more terrible part was letting Kirk Hinrich score 30. Hello Ray Allen ...

Atocep

04-14-2010, 04:38 AM

Sorry, Rondo does what he needs to do with his size (get a lot of steals). I would consider him a good defender because of it. But I don't think you can be considered a great defender until you can tell someone to shut down player X and he does it.

Do you feel that Rajon Rondo can shut down any star player in this league defensively?

Can any point guard shut another down under the current rules?

It's really hard to judge PG defense right now because the rules allow quick guards to penetrate rather easily. Rondo holds opposing PGs to an average of 10% below their normal production. If you combine that with the turnovers he generates and you'll have a hard time naming a better defender at the position.

RainMaker

04-14-2010, 05:51 AM

Can any point guard shut another down under the current rules?

It's really hard to judge PG defense right now because the rules allow quick guards to penetrate rather easily. Rondo holds opposing PGs to an average of 10% below their normal production. If you combine that with the turnovers he generates and you'll have a hard time naming a better defender at the position.
I agree. I have no problem saying he's one of the best defensive PG's in the game. I wish Rose would adapt that ability to create turnovers on the defensive end like Rondo has.

I'm just saying the Defensive Player of the Year talk is pure nonsense. There is no PG who should be mentioned in that field because they can't make that kind of an impact on the game. It's akin to putting a TE in the discussion for MVP. It's just not a position that should be in that discussion.

The race this year should be between Gerald Wallace and Dwight Howard. Howard gets it because I don't think anyone in the league forces a team to change their gameplan more than he does. One sleeper who no one talks about is Josh Smith who is probably the most underated player in the league.

Rondo is 4th on my list of guys guarding point guards. I consider a healthy Paul a more refined version of Rondo who gets steals but doesn't take the same amount of risks. George Hill is a hell of a defender one-on-one and I'd even put little Kyle Lowry on the list. Maybe I just keep catching Lowry on the right nights, but he always seems to be causing havoc defensively. In fact that whole Rockets team seems to take a ridiculous amount of charges.