The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[stevew]

Action kicks off in about 2 weeks.

My early prediction for the most annoying video montage:
Lebron highlights fused with JayZ's "Empire State of Mind"

[Young Drachma]

My early prediction for the most annoying video montage:
Lebron highlights fused with JayZ's "Empire State of Mind"

hahahahaha...

[stevew]

For the non fans-that is the Song with the Alicia Keys hook "Now you're in New York, New York, NeW York"

[stevew]

Kickass song even though I have a bad feeling bout this.

[Young Drachma]

I played it after you said it. LOL.

[Groundhog]

I'm more excited than I usually am about the start of the season, and I'm a big NBA fan.

A lot of strong teams this year on paper in both conferences.

[Chief Rum]

Ah yes, the part of the year where a Clippers fan can still have hope. I believe it was right around now this time last year that I was pointing out to stevew how much talent we had.

And I was right. We had a lot of talent. The problem was, stevew was right that they were injury prone and, well, still the Clippers, and still coached by Mike Dumbleavy. Ugh.

I think we have even more talent this year. So I am not saying a damn word.

[Mr. Sparkle]

As a Warriors fan, this season's already had a huge LOL factor. I can't wait to see what else comes about.

[Neon_Chaos]

Big Lakers fan here hoping for the back-to-back.

Phil Jackson hasn't won a title without following up with 2 more. :) Alas, there's always a first for everything.

[Radii]

NBA on traveling: Two steps are better than one - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4563546)


In March, NBA vice president of referee operations Joe Borgia told TrueHoop's Henry Abbott that referees had long been instructed to ignore the rulebook on this point and allow two steps.

On a conference call with reporters earlier this week, NBA executive vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson told Abbott: "Based on Joe's comments, when you had a conversation with Joe, we did in fact tweak the language on traveling in this year's book."

[whomario]

I thought this was a joke when first reading it on some lesser known nba page but apparently it´s not, freaking unbelievable ...

Next couple FIBA tournaments should be fun once they adjusted to the 2-step rule and have to unadjust on the fly. Rest assured they´ll be watched even more closely now ;)

Hoping on a good year for oden, hoping for a good rookie campaign for Curry and a ressurgence of the Suns with a fine last run for 7 seconds or less, other than that will be following the Blazers and Rockets who have lots of likeable role players likely to play some very old school ball with a likely PPG Ratio of 80 for both teams, don´t let last night fool you as it was against the Raptors.

[Big Fo]

With all the media love for the Cavs and Celtics it will be fun watching Orlando win the East again, and not so fun watching them lose to the Lakers in the finals again.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Getting really excited to see how DeMarre Carroll does at Memphis. The coaches have been really happy with his play. He's been putting up better numbers than Thabeet in less minutes.

[hoopsguy]

Ah yes, the part of the year where a Clippers fan can still have hope. I believe it was right around now this time last year that I was pointing out to stevew how much talent we had.

And I was right. We had a lot of talent. The problem was, stevew was right that they were injury prone and, well, still the Clippers, and still coached by Mike Dumbleavy. Ugh.

I think we have even more talent this year. So I am not saying a damn word.

The Simmons "kick off the NBA season" article on ESPN/Page 2 shares your sentiment. He has them in the playoffs this year and actually had nice things to say about Dunleavy (well, sort of).

[DeToxRox]

Pistons will be 7th in the NBA in scoring and end up as a 7 or 8 seed, if not miss the playoffs altogether, as they feature perhaps the worst defense in Detroit sports. Think about that for a second.

[Gary Gorski]

Pistons will be 7th in the NBA in scoring and end up as a 7 or 8 seed, if not miss the playoffs altogether, as they feature perhaps the worst defense in Detroit sports. Think about that for a second.

How do you figure? Frankly I think we're in for a long year. We have no front court period. Gordon's going to get his 20+ a night off the bench but who else is going to score? Rip's going to have to share minutes whether he wants to or not so I would be surprised to see him score as high as he used to. I think we're lucky to be 8th in the conference. Orlando, Cleveland, Boston are the top 3 for sure - Chicago, Washington (assuming Arenas stays healthy), Atlanta I would put in front of Detroit. Then you've got Philly, Toronto, Miami and Detroit for those last two spots. I have to say if all parties are healthy I don't like Detroit's chances in that race. I put Detroit more on par with Indiana and even they might be better than the Pistons if Hibbert continues to develop.

I hope I'm wrong but I have a hard time seeing it. We traded Billups and blew up the team chemistry last year to get a bunch of cap space and then promptly blew it on a 6th man and a guy who couldn't even get significant minutes with a bad Milwaukee team and said bad Milwaukee team didn't even bother to offer him a qualifying offer so they could match an offer.

I'm going to say it right now Rip + Gordon is not going to work - somebody has to go between Rip and Tayshaun so we can get a big man. A team with Kwame Brown, Chris Wilcox and an aged Ben Wallace manning the middle isn't a playoff team.

[DeToxRox]

How do you figure? Frankly I think we're in for a long year. We have no front court period. Gordon's going to get his 20+ a night off the bench but who else is going to score? Rip's going to have to share minutes whether he wants to or not so I would be surprised to see him score as high as he used to. I think we're lucky to be 8th in the conference. Orlando, Cleveland, Boston are the top 3 for sure - Chicago, Washington (assuming Arenas stays healthy), Atlanta I would put in front of Detroit. Then you've got Philly, Toronto, Miami and Detroit for those last two spots. I have to say if all parties are healthy I don't like Detroit's chances in that race. I put Detroit more on par with Indiana and even they might be better than the Pistons if Hibbert continues to develop.

I hope I'm wrong but I have a hard time seeing it. We traded Billups and blew up the team chemistry last year to get a bunch of cap space and then promptly blew it on a 6th man and a guy who couldn't even get significant minutes with a bad Milwaukee team and said bad Milwaukee team didn't even bother to offer him a qualifying offer so they could match an offer.

I'm going to say it right now Rip + Gordon is not going to work - somebody has to go between Rip and Tayshaun so we can get a big man. A team with Kwame Brown, Chris Wilcox and an aged Ben Wallace manning the middle isn't a playoff team.

I don't think being a 7th or 8th seed is good. I am just saying the team will probably score a lot but give up a whole lot more then it scores.

I'm with you this team is awful, but the East is still not that deep so the Pistons can sneak in to the playoffs.

Joe has done a terrible job constructing a team, but that is how it goes.

I mean, Stuckey and Gordon are going to be expected to play D together for 20 or so minutes a night.

How scary is that?

[stevew]

I can't wait until I get to see Shack O Neal on my favorite team

[Groundhog]

Steve Blake beats out Andre Miller for the starting PG spot in Portland. Bit of a shock, but with how much Roy handles the ball, maybe not a massive surprise. Does Miller get traded now? His contract matches up very nicely with Shane Battier...

[Neuqua]

I am really nervous about the ankle injury that has kept Derrick Rose out of the entire preseason.

[Chief Rum]

I am really nervous about the ankle injury that has kept Derrick Rose out of the entire preseason.

So am I. He's a key player on both of my fantasy teams.

[TroyF]

Stop bashing Joe Dumars. He has built up one hell of a team. The team in Denver.

Denver has Carmelo because Dumars drafted Darko.
Denver has Billups instead of AI last year or the garbage FA out there this year.
Denver has a major upgrade over Dhaney Jones with Afflalo.

BTW, Pacers fans, you'll despise Jones within the first two weeks. He's simply horrible. Horrible. He does good against Paul for one series and people think he's the greatest defensive stopper ever.

[Lathum]

started a fantasy league, kind of short notice

Yahoo Fantasy Basketball - Front Office Football Central (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=75232)

[bbgunn]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the Atlanta Hawks upset somebody and make it all the way to the Eastern Conference Finals.

[Gary Gorski]

Stop bashing Joe Dumars. He has built up one hell of a team. The team in Denver.

Denver has Carmelo because Dumars drafted Darko.
Denver has Billups instead of AI last year or the garbage FA out there this year.
Denver has a major upgrade over Dhaney Jones with Afflalo.



Joe's lost it - the Afflalo trade was stupid. I thought we got a steal when we picked him. He's going to have a long, productive career as a 4th-7th man who plays good defense and does some scoring.

The Billups trade wouldn't have been so bad if he would have a) let Iverson come here and play like Iverson wants to play b) would have taken the next step and sent Rip packing instead of giving him an extension and c) not blown all the cap money on two players who didn't even get offers from their own teams.

The Darko thing...I've said it before and I will be consistent. If I was drafting that day I would have passed on Melo too and I still don't think that was a bad move. I would have taken either Darko or Bosh. Of course knowing what we know now there's no way in hell anyone would have taken Darko there but it's hard to pass on a 7 foot 18 year old who had a ton of hype especially when you already have a championship level team and you can afford to sit on a guy for two years maybe before you really need much out of him. Of course the fact that Wade, Bosh, Melo and others were drafted behind them really makes that pick look bad but that's just how it worked out that it happened to be the biggest bust in one of the best drafts ever.

Bottom line is that Joe started reading the headlines about what a genius he was and then started outsmarting himself. Now we're an afterthought in a fairly weak conference with our future mortgaged for Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva...yeah, we're screwed.

[Groundhog]

BTW, Pacers fans, you'll despise Jones within the first two weeks. He's simply horrible. Horrible. He does good against Paul for one series and people think he's the greatest defensive stopper ever.

I think Jones' reputation on D is derived from the fact that he clearly puts 100% effort on the defensive end each possession, while being pretty passive on the other end.

Indivdually he's not a particularly great defender. He did a fairly good job on Kobe in the playoffs, but he's no Battier, and is even more one-dimensional.

He looked more aggressive with the ball in the preseason, so maybe he's looking to show there's a little more to his game this season.

[Groundhog]

On the subject of the Pacers, I'm very interested to see what kind of season Hibbert has. I thought he was destined to be an immobile stiff coming out of college considering how robotic he looked even against NCAA competition, but man, he's REALLY worked on his touch and had some fantastic games in the preseason.

[TroyF]

I think Jones' reputation on D is derived from the fact that he clearly puts 100% effort on the defensive end each possession, while being pretty passive on the other end.

Indivdually he's not a particularly great defender. He did a fairly good job on Kobe in the playoffs, but he's no Battier, and is even more one-dimensional.

He looked more aggressive with the ball in the preseason, so maybe he's looking to show there's a little more to his game this season.

If he's being more aggressive, you'll hate him more. He didn't do a good job on Kobe either. Kobe destroyed him. Here are some numbers for consumption:

Last year Jones had a -9.1 Roland rating.
He had an adjusted 39% FG% on jump shots.
Opposing SG had a 58% adjusted FG% against him.
The Nuggets gave up more points per 100 possession with him on the floor than when he was off it.

Essentially, here is the deal with him:

You are dead right, you will get effort every night.
He'll blow you away with a huge dunk every now and then.
He'll fire off a cheap shot on an opposing player at times. (you be the judge on how good that is)
When he's on the court, you are playing 4-5 on the offensive end.
There are a handful of players in the league that get frustrated with his type of defense. Most of those players calm down, adjust and destroy him the rest of the game. . . but he'll get under the skin of some and they'll do some stupid things.

This is strictly my opinion:

As a 10 minute a night player on a team full of scoring options, he's good to have. As a 20 minute a night rotation player, you'd better hope everything else goes right for your team or he'll get exposed. At 4 years for 11 million dollar? I'm glad he's someone elses problem.

[TroyF]

On the subject of the Pacers, I'm very interested to see what kind of season Hibbert has. I thought he was destined to be an immobile stiff coming out of college considering how robotic he looked even against NCAA competition, but man, he's REALLY worked on his touch and had some fantastic games in the preseason.

I got a chance to see him a couple of times this preseason. He looks very, very good. I dunno, maybe 15-8? That sound right?

[Karlifornia]

No chance Hibbert does 15 and 8. I'd say 10 and between 6-8 rookie year

[MrBug708]

Didnt Jones nearly foul out in a half vs Kobe in that Western Finals?

[Groundhog]

I got a chance to see him a couple of times this preseason. He looks very, very good. I dunno, maybe 15-8? That sound right?

I think it all depends on how well he manages to avoid foul trouble. If he can stay on the court, 15-8 with 2 or 3 blocks a game is certainly reachable. One of the most promising young bigs in the league IMO.

[Groundhog]

Didnt Jones nearly foul out in a half vs Kobe in that Western Finals?

Yup. Kobe went after him and used his aggression against him. He fell for Kobe's pump fakes just about every time, which is probably the key to defending Kobe - do your best to keep your hand in his face, force him towards help defense, and don't bite on his shot fake. Courtney Lee actually did a better job than Jones IMO, especially considering he was a rookie.

[Karlifornia]

Brook Lopez is twice the offensive player Hibbert is and couldn't reach those numbers with the Nets.

[RainMaker]

Former Celtics star Antoine Walker pursued by creditors as wealth vanishes - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/10/25/former_celtics_star_antoine_walker_pursued_by_creditors_as_wealth_vanishes/?page=full)

[Neon_Chaos]

Yup. Kobe went after him and used his aggression against him. He fell for Kobe's pump fakes just about every time, which is probably the key to defending Kobe - do your best to keep your hand in his face, force him towards help defense, and don't bite on his shot fake. Courtney Lee actually did a better job than Jones IMO, especially considering he was a rookie.

Shane Battier is probably the best Kobe defender in the league. And he really couldn't stop him, just make things very, very difficult. Force Kobe to his left, never bite on pumpfakes, and keep a hand on his face at all times.

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[TroyF]

Brook Lopez is twice the offensive player Hibbert is and couldn't reach those numbers with the Nets.


Actually, Brook did get to the 8 boards and would have gotten to 14 if he'd have played more early in the season.

The question is really minutes. I think he'll average around 20 points per 48 minutes. (he actually averaged 23.5 points per 48 last year. At 30 minutes that's about 12.5 points (my projection of 20 per 48). At last year's production it's over 14.6 points per game. Provided he gets more minutes, I'm pretty comfortable with my scoring prediction.

The boards are where my question really comes in. Last year he was at 11.6 boards per 48. I think he can increase that a bit.

But again, it really comes down to minutes. He played 25 or more minutes in a game 4 times last year. He had 14 or more points in every game. 7 or more rebounds in 3 of the 4 games.

An offseason of practice and 25+ minutes consistently a night? I think I'll be closer than you think I am.

[bhlloy]

Ah yes, the part of the year where a Clippers fan can still have hope. I believe it was right around now this time last year that I was pointing out to stevew how much talent we had.

And I was right. We had a lot of talent. The problem was, stevew was right that they were injury prone and, well, still the Clippers, and still coached by Mike Dumbleavy. Ugh.

I think we have even more talent this year. So I am not saying a damn word.

Griffin out for up to 6 weeks with stress fracture. This team is completely snake bit. Once Kaman goes down with inevitable injury it will be time to shut it down for the season and start thinking about that high draft pick again next year.

[Chief Rum]

Griffin out for up to 6 weeks with stress fracture. This team is completely snake bit. Once Kaman goes down with inevitable injury it will be time to shut it down for the season and start thinking about that high draft pick again next year.

Amazing, isn't it? You couldn't make up such constant misery.

[Groundhog]

Griffin out for up to 6 weeks with stress fracture. This team is completely snake bit. Once Kaman goes down with inevitable injury it will be time to shut it down for the season and start thinking about that high draft pick again next year.

Well that sucks. :(

It was a hell of a dunk that he injured himself on:

YouTube - Blake Griffin-Block and sick Dunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DPmb4JCcok&feature=player_embedded)

(embedding never works with this lousy WYSIWYG editor)

[Shkspr]

It is worth noting that Bill Simmons specified in his NBA preview that if Griffin were to roll around on the court clutching a broken right ankle within three weeks, we should not mock him with copies of the paragraph he wrote in which he intimated that becoming a Clipper was one of the best things that could have happened to Griffin.

Nothing, however, was mentioned about a left kneecap. Ought to be fun to see the mail, at least.

[whomario]

Well that sucks. :(

It was a hell of a dunk that he injured himself on:

YouTube - Blake Griffin-Block and sick Dunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DPmb4JCcok&feature=player_embedded)

(embedding never works with this lousy WYSIWYG editor)

Gerald "Crash" Wallace 2.0

Clippers should be exempt from the draft and trades as it´s just not fair to the players .

Simmons full preview, not much actual information but some humourous points : Bill Simmons' NBA season preview and 33 most intriguing NBA people - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/part1/091023&sportCat=nba)

btw, has anyone seen Nowitzki´s new haircut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2ZH-X0VFOg) ? :D

Just now purchased the International League Pass (http://ilp.nba.com/) , so i´m good to go for the start of the season. Can´t watch a ton live with the time difference and having to work, so that replay option is a nice option. Just have to keep clear off of sport pages during the day and watch after work.

[stevew]

Man. God hates the Clippers.

[Philliesfan980]

Former Celtics star Antoine Walker pursued by creditors as wealth vanishes - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/10/25/former_celtics_star_antoine_walker_pursued_by_creditors_as_wealth_vanishes/?page=full)

I'm surprised nobody else commented on this story. I'm sure it's not unique. As your typical average middle class guy, comments like this make me absolutely hate professional athletes -

"Walker’s mother, Diane, said her son does not have a gambling problem. She added that “he doesn’t party any more than the next person’’ and “what you do with your life is your business.’’

“Antoine doesn’t owe anybody any explanation,’’ said Diane Walker. “He’s not out here hurting anybody. He’s trying to live his life peacefully. That’s all he’s doing . . . My son is young. Why can’t he just enjoy life, go where he wants to go?’’


AND...

"When asked about her son’s recent, well-documented financial and legal problems, Diane Walker stood stoically outside her front door. She made a sweeping gesture toward the mansion, moving her hand past a giant brick “W’’ embedded in the driveway.

“Antoine is doing great,’’ said Diane. “I have my home. He has his home. If he’s doing so bad, then how could we still be here?’’


What a POS. What a slap in the face to anyone who works for a living and struggles to do the right thing and pay their bills month to month.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

On the other hand, I would put dollars to donuts that Walker was taken advantage of by a lot of people. The book on him (in Boston at least) has always been that he's a big hearted guy but not too bright. Sad to say I wasn't too surprised to read the article.

Of course, I don't mean that to excuse running up debts you can't pay at all. Just makes it kind of sad, to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

On the other hand, I would put dollars to donuts that Walker was taken advantage of by a lot of people. The book on him (in Boston at least) has always been that he's a big hearted guy but not too bright. Sad to say I wasn't too surprised to read the article.

Of course, I don't mean that to excuse running up debts you can't pay at all. Just makes it kind of sad, to me.

poor toine. he never should have left boston...we would have taken care of him.

[Philliesfan980]

On the other hand, I would put dollars to donuts that Walker was taken advantage of by a lot of people. The book on him (in Boston at least) has always been that he's a big hearted guy but not too bright. Sad to say I wasn't too surprised to read the article.

Of course, I don't mean that to excuse running up debts you can't pay at all. Just makes it kind of sad, to me.

Oh I agree with you. My anger surprisingly enough isn't towards Walker, but the people who took advantage of him, namely his Mom.

Do you think his Mom told him "Hey, that's ok, I think I'll be alright with 5 bathrooms instead of 10"? Of course not.

[DaddyTorgo]

said in the story that he authorized 5 people to make charges on his credit card and it looks like most of the charges came from one of those people - so there's definately some anger to be directed towards that person too (whether it was his mom or his best friend or what)

[DaddyTorgo]

there's definately a great business opportunity here though to be like....financial advisor for professional athletes. and not to sponge money off them and embezzle it or anything, but to teach them and advise them on how to live responsibly and make sure this type of thing doesn't happen to them

[Galaril]

Geez bad day for Celtics fans. First, Rondo turns down the Celtics last offer and he and his agent announced he will be going to at least restricted FA. Secondly, Big Baby broke his thumb in a fight with an ole LSU teammate. so much for saving Garnett for the playoffs.

[DaddyTorgo]

bah! bad rondo!!! bad bad rondo!!



Duffy said he is looking for a deal that would make Rondo one of the NBA's top five highest-paid point guards. According to Duffy, the Celtics "feel differently," Yahoo! Sports reported.

An unnamed source told Boston sports radio station WEEI that the Celtics offered Rondo a five-year, $45 million extension (an average of $9 million per year), but Rondo is seeking a five-year deal worth between $55 million and $60 million (an average of $11 million to $12 million per year).



Hmm...I might have to say I agree with the C's on this one. I'm not sure that Rondo is one of the Top 5 PG's in the league BY HIMSELF. With the supporting cast he has around him he has been great, and he is a phenomenal lil player, but he still hasn't shown a consistent midrange jumpshot and a lot of his baskets are "easy" due to defenses overplaying the other guys.

That being said though - I love the guy and I want him to stay.

[DaddyTorgo]

ooof - so much for Blake Griffin eh?

[Galaril]

bah! bad rondo!!! bad bad rondo!!



Hmm...I might have to say I agree with the C's on this one. I'm not sure that Rondo is one of the Top 5 PG's in the league BY HIMSELF. With the supporting cast he has around him he has been great, and he is a phenomenal lil player, but he still hasn't shown a consistent midrange jumpshot and a lot of his baskets are "easy" due to defenses overplaying the other guys.

That being said though - I love the guy and I want him to stay.

Yeah that could be said about a lot of players. Ainge doesn't have the luxury of pulling a Belicheck and let an Allstar caliber player walk. the NBA is not the NFL the NBA. I mean Rondo is atop7-8 not 5 PG But do we wnat to see next season the Lester Hudson era at PG starting?:eek:

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. until rondo has a consistent jumper he's not a top 5 pg - i can't say i disagree with ainge there

[molson]

It will be an interseting rebuild v. reload discussion for the Celtics in the off-season.

[DaddyTorgo]

It will be an interseting rebuild v. reload discussion for the Celtics in the off-season.

I dunno...Pierce is okay still...Ray Allen claims to feel like he's 24 again...reload may be the choice.

[larrymcg421]

Meh, the C's are stupid if they let Rondo go. Yeah he's got some holes in his game, but he improved this past season and he's young. He can still improve more. I can't believe they'd consider letting a young PG who is as good as Rondo go.

I'll certainly be pissed if they let him go and have to watch the Cavs pwn us every night as Rondo dishes it to LeBron.

[DaddyTorgo]

Meh, the C's are stupid if they let Rondo go. Yeah he's got some holes in his game, but he improved this past season and he's young. He can still improve more. I can't believe they'd consider letting a young PG who is as good as Rondo go.

I'll certainly be pissed if they let him go and have to watch the Cavs pwn us every night as Rondo dishes it to LeBron.

Lebron won't be in Cleveburg at that point. :D

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

It's definitely risky. If Rondo is Andre Miller 2.0, I'll be happy to see the Cavs give him a near-max contract. There's a lot of risk both ways. Let's see how he does this year.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think the Celtics would be damn fools to let Rondo go. I don't really understand why they bashed him this offseason, either. The way he played in the playoffs last year was insane. The defensive metrics show him to be one of the top defensive PGs in the game already. I have no doubt his offensive game will continue to improve. I have no doubt that he'll be a top 5 PG in a couple years. Which 5 PGs will be better than him?

[stevew]

Rondo is merely going to be a restricter FA next summer. And they will have the ability to match a max offer if he gets one. No point in maxing him at this point IMO. He's a 10M player and not a 15M one. You can get a nice piece with 5M in an offsesson generally. A 6-7 man type

[JPhillips]

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

+1

You have to have two stars or Lebron to get to the finals. Rondo, Perkins and a bunch of old guys makes you the Indiana Pacers of the past decade.

[Groundhog]

Rondo is definitely not a max player. A max player should be the best player on your team these days, especially with frontoffices trying to be a little more careful with their coin. Rondo is a very good PG if you've got guys around him, but he's not someone you build a team around.

[BishopMVP]

I think the Celtics would be damn fools to let Rondo go. I don't really understand why they bashed him this offseason, either. The way he played in the playoffs last year was insane. The defensive metrics show him to be one of the top defensive PGs in the game already. I have no doubt his offensive game will continue to improve. I have no doubt that he'll be a top 5 PG in a couple years. Which 5 PGs will be better than him?I agree with the general premise that the FO's public comments make no sense unless Rondo is a big chemistry problem behind the scenes, but I'll take a shot.

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Brandon Roy?
Devin Harris?
Russell Westbrook?
Brandon Jennings (just kidding)

[stevew]

Players who have the main attribute of "speed" generally age poorly.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Paul, Williams, Rose were the three that I could immediately think of. Wade and Roy are kind of hybrid PG/SG, aren't they? They don't necessarily play PG, but they have the ball in their hands like a PG. Harris is a far better scorer, don't know how much of a distributor/defensive presence he'll end up being. I love Westbrook, but he shoots even worse than Rondo does. He'll put up some numbers on that team, though. Could be in the discussion.

[whomario]

Golden State btw will indeed start both Ellis and Curry to start the season. Nelly-ball, coming to a city near you :popcorn:


Up until yesterday Magette was slotted into the starting PF spot, but now it apears he´ll start Turiaf.

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Players who have the main attribute of "speed" generally age poorly.

come on, he´s 23, not 30.

Would definitely slot him at 8 rather than 10 mio a year, but loose him over that difference ? Wouldn´t be a good idea. IMO Boston will have more of a shot at sucess Post-Big3 by getting him some running mates that can stroke it rather than hope for that superstar swingman or Big Guy to come along that would enable you to get by with a mediocre PG instead.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm probably giving Rondo too much credit based on his playoff performance last year, but I just feel I'd be willing to pay a little more at the PG spot than any other position. Losing a 23 year old PG that has improved every season and nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs would be devastating. How would they replace that?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Over. Definitely the over.

[Groundhog]

Golden State btw will indeed start both Ellis and Curry to start the season. Nelly-ball, coming to a city near you :popcorn:


Up until yesterday Magette was slotted into the starting PF spot, but now it apears he´ll start Turiaf.

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

[larrymcg421]

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.

[Groundhog]

I'm probably giving Rondo too much credit based on his playoff performance last year, but I just feel I'd be willing to pay a little more at the PG spot than any other position. Losing a 23 year old PG that has improved every season and nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs would be devastating. How would they replace that?

I'd pay a PF or C more than I'd pay a PG. PG is a very important position of course, but I think it's much easier to acquire one in the draft than it is a frontcourt guy.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'd pay a PF or C more than I'd pay a PG. PG is a very important position of course, but I think it's much easier to acquire one in the draft than it is a frontcourt guy.

Center I'll give you, but I disagree on PF. For instance, I think the Aldridge deal was insane. He's not a max guy.

[Groundhog]

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

The question is more: are you willing to tie up your cap space on this guy, especially when the salary cap may fall? Right now, I don't know that I would do that with Rondo.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.

I think you want to see a season-long great performance from him before you lock him up long-term with max money. Paying guys based on one postseason (though of course he's certainly had his moments before then) is probably not the wisest move.

[Groundhog]

Center I'll give you, but I disagree on PF. For instance, I think the Aldridge deal was insane. He's not a max guy.

I definitely agree on Aldridge - not a max player. Doesn't rebound nearly well enough, and isn't aggressive enough. But how many great PFs are there in the league worth max money? Not all that many. They are hard to find.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

I don't see how Ellis and Curry are going to play together. Certain teams, sure, they could make it work. But day in and day out? I know the Warriors don't care about defense, but that's ridiculous even for them. I'd prefer Ellis/Azubuike/Jackson/Randolph/Biedrins, with a second unit of Curry/Morrow/Maggette/Turiaf/Moore until Wright comes back. Then Wright to PF and Turiaf to C.

But none of this matters as long as Nelson is coach/de facto GM and Cohan/Rowell are in charge.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Regarding Rondo, this season is going to either make him some serious money, or he's going to settle in at about what the Celtics offer was.

[whomario]

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

yeah, that´s a big issue. Although i just can´t imagine he will continue shooting this poorly once he gets into a rythm (although, this being a Nellie-coached team and all, that may never happen ...). I mean, he looked pretty damn good in every other aspect than the one that people assumed would translate the easiest.

The thing with that lineup : No one can shoot the long ball other than Curry who is supposed to create (he is the PG from how things are shaping up and will call the shots when playing together, not Ellis).

Also, with Randolph at the 3 you´d have 2 huge mismatch-traps on your end.

Plus : If you want even a small shot at doing sth this year (playoffs) than you have to start Jackson and hope to win him over, when motivated he is the keyplayer as he´s balancing everything out.

[Mr. Sparkle]

For those of you in or around NBA cities, I strongly urge you to go to a Warriors game when they're in town and watch Anthony Randolph. It's amazing. He'll flash all the pieces of a superstar, only in between he'll make some of the most boneheaded plays you can imagine. If he EVER puts it all together...oh man. He's something.

[DaddyTorgo]

Regarding Rondo, this season is going to either make him some serious money, or he's going to settle in at about what the Celtics offer was.

I think this is right. I think they've been fairly consistent in saying that they want to see sustained greatness from him, and that's what this season is about.

[Scoobz0202]

C'mon Lebron. Bring that ring home this season!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think this is right. I think they've been fairly consistent in saying that they want to see sustained greatness from him, and that's what this season is about.

I would love nothing more than Rondo earning the big contract he wants.

[whomario]

Has there ever been such a, well, "strange" Starter/Backup Combination at Center for a team ? 2 Big Men replacing each other that are this clearly Cs (and Cs only) and can actually play and had a great career repectively (different level of course, but even Z was an Allstar after all) but have very defined weaknesses in terms of mobility at their age.
Seems really strange to have Shaq go out and replace him with Ilgauskas.

This will get exposed by quite a few teams if they stick with that clear-cut rotation at Center (and not shift Varejao over there at times, but then wh´s playing PF other than Hickson ?).

With neither being a good (or even decent) help defender at this stage you can´t even afford to take Varejao out of the game for more than 2,3 minutes at a time, he´ll play a ton of minutes this year.

[Chief Rum]

Rondo is merely going to be a restricter FA next summer. And they will have the ability to match a max offer if he gets one. No point in maxing him at this point IMO. He's a 10M player and not a 15M one. You can get a nice piece with 5M in an offsesson generally. A 6-7 man type

There is going to be a lot of money available next summer--and not everyone's going to get LeBron or Wade or Bosh.

[BishopMVP]

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.Which Celtics fans are ready to let him go? You make it sound like we/they're eager to see him gone when I think the current mood is wait and see, which given the uncertainties both of whether he keeps improving and the future NBA salary structure, is quite warranted.There is going to be a lot of money available next summer--and not everyone's going to get LeBron or Wade or Bosh.He's a restricted FA after this season. Prove you deserve big money, either the Celtics will offer it, match whichever team does offer it or sign and trade him for significant pieces. This current season is the most important one to try and win a title with Garnett/Allen/Pierce only having 0-3? years left at a high level, so why bother signing him when it only risks his motivation disappearing?

[stevew]

Good win for the Celtics tonight. Cavs display the ability to get no scoring out of positions 2-10 in the rotation, including virtually nothing off the bench. Hopefully this will be corrected.

[Chief Rum]

Which Celtics fans are ready to let him go? You make it sound like we/they're eager to see him gone when I think the current mood is wait and see, which given the uncertainties both of whether he keeps improving and the future NBA salary structure, is quite warranted.He's a restricted FA after this season. Prove you deserve big money, either the Celtics will offer it, match whichever team does offer it or sign and trade him for significant pieces. This current season is the most important one to try and win a title with Garnett/Allen/Pierce only having 0-3? years left at a high level, so why bother signing him when it only risks his motivation disappearing?

I am just saying...if it was my guy, I wouldn't just assume that he will be coming back even if he plays well and earns it. That's an awful lot of money for Celtics management to pay out when they're already paying boatloads to their big three.

I would also say, given how even some midlevel guys have gotten surprising deals when money was in play, that Rondo doesn't even need to play like a complete All Star to attract some serious top dollar offers from some teams.

[BishopMVP]

Kind of a weird game tonight. Cleveland dominates out of the gate, we dominate a 15 minute period around the half and it just settles in. Even with Cleveland making a late run it never felt in much danger. Our bench was clearly vastly superior to theirs tonight, and it was the difference in the game.

[BishopMVP]

I am just saying...if it was my guy, I wouldn't just assume that he will be coming back even if he plays well and earns it. That's an awful lot of money for Celtics management to pay out when they're already paying boatloads to their big three.

I would also say, given how even some midlevel guys have gotten surprising deals when money was in play, that Rondo doesn't even need to play like a complete All Star to attract some serious top dollar offers from some teams.Yeah, it does run the risk of some team offering near max money when he deserves 2-3m/y less, but if that's his asking price now what's the risk?

I'm definitely not happy the owners are apparently hurting for cash (which is allegedly why they're going after Big Baby for money), but they certainly won't be the last we hear of this season. Rondo's extension wouldn't kick in until 2011-12, and Allen will probably be gone (or at a much lower number than 19) by then, with Garnett drastically reduced from 21 after 2011-12. Since they're not Jeremy Jacobs, they would almost certainly bite the bullet for that 1 year overlap if it came to it. Scal and Tony Allen are also on the last years of their deals, which is 6m that could be replaced with minsal players for next year.

[Galaril]

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

Yeah never happen nobody is going to give us shit for him now that they know he is heading FA.

[Neon_Chaos]

Agent Zero looked really good tonight.

Bynum was also great.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yeah never happen nobody is going to give us shit for him now that they know he is heading FA.

Nah, I mean he'll be restricted. Someone signs him to an offer sheet, and we match and trade.

[wade moore]

Agent Zero looked really good tonight.

Bynum was also great.

If the Wiz keep this up, I might actually watch some regular season NBA this year.

[Neon_Chaos]

If the Wiz keep this up, I might actually watch some regular season NBA this year.

I would love to see the Wizards with EVERYONE healthy. They are easily a playoff team in the East if they are healthy

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[Samdari]

Chris Paul - of course
Deron Williams - yes
Derrick Rose - probably
Dwyane Wade - not a PG
Brandon Roy? - not even close to a PG
Devin Harris? - maybe?
Russell Westbrook? - what does he do better than Rondo?
Brandon Jennings - AI without the desire to win

[Gary Gorski]

Good win for the Celtics tonight. Cavs display the ability to get no scoring out of positions 2-10 in the rotation, including virtually nothing off the bench. Hopefully this will be corrected.

I think the Celtics proved that the Cavs haven't improved one bit since last season. The lack of athletic big men does not allow them to defend the high pick and roll and they still don't have a conistent 2nd offensive option - its Lebron or bust. Mo Williams isn't that guy and Shaq can't be that guy anymore - notice how Boston didn't resort to hack-a-Shaq last night. They didn't have to. Perkins kept him away from dunk range and that's all they need to do to defend him now.

LeBron is wasting his time in Cleveland - how much better off could he be in New Jersey next year? First he stays in the weaker conference so his chances to go to the Finals stay higher but more importantly a lineup of Harris (emerging PG who can consistently score), Lee (could spot up all day for three with Harris, LeBron and Lopez in the lineup plus a very good defender), LeBron, Yi (wild card but not bad if he's your weakest starter) and Brook Lopez (already one of the better centers in the East). Plus you would have Terrence Williams, CDR and whoever their lottery pick is in the next draft and probably still cap room to sign someone else decent. They've got 10 guys committed to only about 18 million next season and that includes Harris, Lee, Yi, Lopez, CDR and Williams - LeBron gets his 15 or whatever plus the 2-3m for their lotto pick - that's only 35 million in salary. That alone puts him better off than he is now and there's room to sign a big-time four man if they want to. How sick would it be if Bosh signed too? If the cap drops to say 50m that would put them right there.

It's a bunch of what-ifs but surely there are going to be legit options out there for LeBron and he needs to look at them because the Cavs don't know WTF they are doing.

[wade moore]

I would love to see the Wizards with EVERYONE healthy. They are easily a playoff team in the East if they are healthy

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Totally agree - of course Jamison is already injured.

[Neon_Chaos]

Totally agree - of course Jamison is already injured.

I just looked it up, and the last time Arenas, Butler, and Jamison were all on the floor together was back in '07. Wow.
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[whomario]

Just watched the Cavs-Celtics game and while the Celtics really looked like a better team, it´s still allways a sight to see James play. Incredible athlete, just unreal at times.

Here his 2 Fastbreak-blocks on Rondo and Allen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eblYB3DCggc)

[MrBug708]

Chris Paul - of course
Deron Williams - yes
Derrick Rose - probably
Dwyane Wade - not a PG
Brandon Roy? - not even close to a PG
Devin Harris? - maybe?
Russell Westbrook? - what does he do better than Rondo?
Brandon Jennings - AI without the desire to win

You might be hard pressed to find a GM who would take Rondo over Westbrook. Westbrook still hasn't come into his own, possesses a freak level of atheticism and plays defense. Then again, I think Westbrook is closer to an Arenas type of player then one like Rondo.

And I'm a homer :)

[Big Fo]

White Chocolate had a solid return to the NBA after taking a year off, 4-5 shooting (3-4 on threes), 15 points, 5 assists. Orlando cruised to a win over the Sixers 120-106, they were up 33 after the third quarter.

[Lathum]

WTF

Nets lost?

They were up 13 in the 4th quarter.

[Ironhead]

WTF

Nets lost?

They were up 13 in the 4th quarter.

Couldn't stop the Timberwolves' point guard from driving to the basket. Wolves ended the game on a 23-6 run.

[Gary Gorski]

0-2 for the Lebrons...when does Mike Brown get the axe? :)

[larrymcg421]

14 points, 7 assists, 4 steals. Not a bad debut for Curry.

[whomario]

and the Warriors allowed the Rockets to score 108 points. Propably the only Rockets win of the season allowing 100+ ;) Rockets had a huge 3rd quarter, Scola was amazing there. If that guy were a bit more physichally gifted he´d be a superstar, as it is he´s just one of the most technically sound Post Players. A joy to watch him play :)
Ariza was very prolific. Yeah, 6 TOs and 9-21 but 25/5/5 still sounds kinda good. Chase Birdinger with a very solid game and don´t get me started on the marvel that is Chuck Hayes ... And aaron Brooks had 12 assists, the apocalypse is near :eek:

Curry can play, period.

Cleveland looses again, Bargnani with the type of game shooting bigs will have against them ... 28 points on 11-15.

Suns win @ the Clippers, Nash with 15 in the 4th and the gamewinner :)

Knicks lost bad, bright spot in a way was a pretty terrific shooting display by Gallinari who went 7-13 from 3. Rest of the team was 3-26 (yeah, they shot 39 triples)

Orlando and San Antonio are deep, deep teams.

[Karlifornia]

and the Warriors allowed the Rockets to score 108 points. Propably the only Rockets win of the season allowing 100+ ;) Rockets had a huge 3rd quarter, Scola was amazing there. If that guy were a bit more physichally gifted he´d be a superstar, as it is he´s just one of the most technically sound Post Players. A joy to watch him play :)
Ariza was very prolific. Yeah, 6 TOs and 9-21 but 25/5/5 still sounds kinda good. Chase Birdinger with a very solid game and don´t get me started on the marvel that is Chuck Hayes ... And aaron Brooks had 12 assists, the apocalypse is near :eek:

Curry can play, period.

Cleveland looses again, Bargnani with the type of game shooting bigs will have against them ... 28 points on 11-15.

Suns win @ the Clippers, Nash with 15 in the 4th and the gamewinner :)

Knicks lost bad, bright spot in a way was a pretty terrific shooting display by Gallinari who went 7-13 from 3. Rest of the team was 3-26 (yeah, they shot 39 triples)

Orlando and San Antonio are deep, deep teams.

The Warriors are awful. If they win 30 games I'll count it as a blessing. Curry looks like a pretty good player. He has confidence and ability. Too bad Nellie insists on playing Corey Maggette. If only he could learn not to shoot.

[whomario]

they weren´t that bad imo. It´s not like the rockets are a 20 win team or anything. Yeah, people think that seeing the lineup but they will be much better than that. Dunno about the playoffs, but they won´t be far back and will be tough to beat.
Fun team, will win a lot of people over with their play.

From Kelly Dwyer over at yahoo´s ball don´t lie blog :


What I am telling you is that the Rockets are not going to give up all year. They'll be blown out in some games; it happens to every team. But they might be the toughest team to blow out outside of the big five (your Lakers, Magic, Cavaliers, Celtics and Spurs, listed in order of the length of last season's postseason run, in order not to tick off sensitive fans) because they absolutely won't give up.

That's the sportswriter take.

The basketball take also tells you that this team's rotation will give Rick Adelman everything he needs on each given night. No, it won't give him a 7 1/2-footer with skills or a do-everything wing stud. But he will get to pick and choose from a versatile rotation in order to put whoever has it going that particular night on the court. This is the deepest depth that nobody knows about. I love these Rockets.


agree about magette though ... And Monta Ellis just won´t be the solution going forward. Yeah, he can play. But he can´t shoot the 3 and isn´t a good playmaker which combined just isn´t exactly screaming "franchise player" for a 6´3 Guard.

[Neon_Chaos]

Two straight losses, and the internet is all abuzz about Lebron bailing. :)

Couldn't wait til the season finished, could they?
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[Samdari]

You might be hard pressed to find a GM who would take Rondo over Westbrook.

On potential.

Westbrook still hasn't come into his own

I realize that most people think that. I think this is pretty much it. But, even granting your premise that he has not come into his own, right now what does he do better than Rondo?

[Bad-example]

The Warriors are awful. If they win 30 games I'll count it as a blessing. Curry looks like a pretty good player. He has confidence and ability. Too bad Nellie insists on playing Corey Maggette. If only he could learn not to shoot.

The W's suck but the young players are still fun to watch. I won't consider going to a game or buying team merchandise until they get a real owner/gm/coach but the good broadcasters and young talent make them a decent option for my tv sports fix when the Sharks aren't playing.

[Sublime 2]

On potential.



I realize that most people think that. I think this is pretty much it. But, even granting your premise that he has not come into his own, right now what does he do better than Rondo?

I guess on top of this I'd add, why is it assumed Rondo has stopped progressing?

[TroyF]

Being a homer here for a second, but it's something I've been consistent with even before the Nuggets traded for him. . . how in the hell was Ty Lawson the 18th pick in the draft?

I don't understand what scouts feel his major weakness is. He can hit the 15 footer. He's fast as hell. He's 195 pounds so he can take some punishment. He simply doesn't turn the ball over. He's developing his three point shot.

Last night the Nuggets/Jazz game was close until Ty took it over in the late third/early fourth quarter. 26 minutes, 7-13 from the floor, 17 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 turnover.

This guy is going to make a lot of GM's feel really, really stupid in the coming years. (again, for those just joining, I said he was the best PG in the draft before the draft. This isn't me going insane because of one game)

[BishopMVP]

On potential.



I realize that most people think that. I think this is pretty much it. But, even granting your premise that he has not come into his own, right now what does he do better than Rondo?The question was about Rondo vs. other PG's in 2-3 years. If it was today, we could throw guys like Nash back into the discussion.

[Gary Gorski]

Did you see Blair's line last night? How in the hell did ANY team in the 2nd round pass on this guy? I understand taking the cautious approach in round 1 (although seriously, you'll throw millions at the Brian Scalabrines of the league but not take a chance at guaranteeing late first round money on Blair?) but why on earth would you pass in round 2?

As for Lawson I think his biggest downsides are that he's 5'11 and that he can't shoot the outside shot. He can work on the latter but how does he check a 6'3 PG like Derrick Rose? I didn't see the 2nd half of the game last night - how much of his damage came with Deron Williams in the game? 17 points against Deron Williams is one thing - its another against Ronnie Price. Regardless I think Lawson is certainly NBA ready - I don't know how much upside he has but he's certainly playing well so far this offseason and now in the first game. I'd be curious to see how he played if he was starting for Minnesota or Golden State.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Did you see Blair's line last night? How in the hell did ANY team in the 2nd round pass on this guy? I understand taking the cautious approach in round 1 (although seriously, you'll throw millions at the Brian Scalabrines of the league but not take a chance at guaranteeing late first round money on Blair?) but why on earth would you pass in round 2?


Freaking this. I was wondering this on draft night. Blair put up fantastic numbers in college against legit competition. Why not take a shot on him? I know he has no ACLs in either knee, but he didn't miss a game in college. And of course the team that drafts him is probably the best run team in the league.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Regarding the Warriors, it's the same old story. That third quarter was hideous. Jackson and Maggete killed them in the third. Jackson with his "dribble in place for 6 seconds then launch it" routine and his "drive into two defenders and throw it towards the basket, then act shocked when no foul is called", and Maggette with his constant shooting when he's clearly ice cold. Maggette is at his best when he's driving to the hoop and getting to the line. He did none of that last night.

I also don't understand why Randolph only got 9 minutes. I know his back has been bothering him, but he looked great while he was out there. Completely energized the team. He had something like 8 points, 4 boards, and a block in his 9 minutes. I don't even know why I bother trying to figure out Nellie. There's no point, just like there's no point to the moves he makes.

My hope going forward is for Cleveland to keep going 1 on 5 and losing, LeBron getting rightly upset/frustrated, and the Warriors being able to dump Jackson on a panicking Ferry without having to take back numerous terrible contracts.

[Gary Gorski]

My hope going forward is for Cleveland to keep going 1 on 5 and losing, LeBron getting rightly upset/frustrated, and the Warriors being able to dump Jackson on a panicking Ferry without having to take back numerous terrible contracts.

This could happen...except the Warriors are run about as well as the Cavs so they'll undoubtedly get saddled with something horrible in return :)

What Nelson does with that team is a damn shame but he seems to get his kicks by screwing with the lineup every freaking game and nobody seems to be of the mindset to put a stop to it.

[stevew]

My hope going forward is for Cleveland to keep going 1 on 5 and losing, LeBron getting rightly upset/frustrated, and the Warriors being able to dump Jackson on a panicking Ferry without having to take back numerous terrible contracts.

Eh, I'd take Jackson for like West and Boobie. It's actually kind of hard to make a trade for a guy like Jackson cause there's a very limited number of players that could be traded for him(and work under the cap).

[MikeVic]

I watched the first three quarters of the Raps-Cavs game... The Cavs could be in trouble with their big men if they play in the inside too much (or don't move around). Bargnani killed them in the first quarter.

[RainMaker]

I'll be there tonight in Chicago for the game vs the Spurs. Looking forward to seeing how the team comes out.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Eh, I'd take Jackson for like West and Boobie. It's actually kind of hard to make a trade for a guy like Jackson cause there's a very limited number of players that could be traded for him(and work under the cap).

Yep, that contract KILLED his value. He'd be an expiring contract this year, which would have made him extremely desirable. Now, thanks to Robert Rowell handing him an extension behind EVERYONE'S back, he's practically unmovable. Rumor was teams would only take him if the Warriors took back numerous bad contracts AND included their 1st round pick in 2010...unprotected.

Warriors basketball: It's a great time out!

[TroyF]

Did you see Blair's line last night? How in the hell did ANY team in the 2nd round pass on this guy? I understand taking the cautious approach in round 1 (although seriously, you'll throw millions at the Brian Scalabrines of the league but not take a chance at guaranteeing late first round money on Blair?) but why on earth would you pass in round 2?

As for Lawson I think his biggest downsides are that he's 5'11 and that he can't shoot the outside shot. He can work on the latter but how does he check a 6'3 PG like Derrick Rose? I didn't see the 2nd half of the game last night - how much of his damage came with Deron Williams in the game? 17 points against Deron Williams is one thing - its another against Ronnie Price. Regardless I think Lawson is certainly NBA ready - I don't know how much upside he has but he's certainly playing well so far this offseason and now in the first game. I'd be curious to see how he played if he was starting for Minnesota or Golden State.

I agree with you on Blair. I still have no idea why everyone passed him up and he got to the Spurs. I know the knee injury was serious, but my God can that guy play. (remember, in the fantasy league I drafted both guys in the rookie draft)

Ty keyed a huge run in the late 3rd, early 4th with Deron on the bench. He went something like 3-6 for 6 points after Deron came back in the game. (along with a couple of pretty passes that ended up drawing fouls)

I understand the 5'11'' thing, but there are plenty of ways to counteract a short player. For example, Deron had 4 points, 3 assists in the fourth quarter last night. The reason: Denver put Afflalo on him.

I think Ty has major league upside. I'll predict right now that he'll have multiple all-star games in his future. His shot is underrated, he keeps care of the ball, he's fast as lightning and he works hard.

Keep in mind another thing Blair was cut down for was his size. He's a 6'7" power forward without a lot of range. His bulk makes up for some of that (265 pounds), his talent and game take care of a majority of it and a good coach will take care of the rest.

Ty is 195 pounds. Paul (175), Rose (190), Rondo (171), Westbrook (187) are PG's who are lighter. He's as strong as most of the guys I listed and faster than every one of them save Paul. I know size matters in the NBA. But watch a game this guy plays in and tell me he plays to that size.

(OK, so now he'll go 1-10 against Portland with 9 of his shots blocked and be torched repeatedly on defense. I'll be here for the laughter) :)

[Groundhog]

Lawson was always projected as a late first which surprised me, though I guess size played a big part in that. Still if my team had the #10 pick on draft day and Brandon Jennings and Lawson were both available, I'd have preferred Lawson back then, though Jennings looks like he can play as well.

As for Blair, that's just one of those idiotic things that happens nearly every draft. I look at the last 15 picks in the first round, and there aren't many guys I'd prefer to have on my roster than Blair, even before he started looking fantastic in preseason/regular season games.

[Radii]

Lawson shot 47% from 3 in his last season at Carolina. He wouldn't really generate his own outside shot but defenders could not sag off him or he'd kill them from 3, and once the defense moved up tight on him so he wouldn't get open looks, he was quickest player on the court in every game he played in college IMO and could burn anyone going to the basket.

I hope he can extend the range out to the NBA line so he can do the same there, I *really* want to see him succeed.

[MrBug708]

On potential.



I realize that most people think that. I think this is pretty much it. But, even granting your premise that he has not come into his own, right now what does he do better than Rondo?

Defense. I also think he's a better scorer

[Mr. Sparkle]

Defense. I also think he's a better scorer

I was under the impression that Rondo was one of the best-if not the best-defensive PGs in the league. A cursory look at Basketball Reference has Rondo third in the entire league last year in defensive win shares. Plus there was the survey of all 30 GMs that has Rondo being rated as one of the best in the league.

I'm not as well versed in the sabermetric stats of basketball as I am in baseball, but this article was interesting:

hxxp://celticshub.com/2009/10/07/notes-on-gm-survey-is-rondo-in-danger-of-being-overrated/

I agree that Westbrook is the better pure scorer, however.

[Chief Rum]

I don't know what the stats say, but I know Westbrook is either well-regarded defensively or regarded as having the potential to develop into a top notch defensive player. It was just college, but Westbrook was very good on defense at UCLA.

All that said, yeah, I have consistently heard about how good Rondo is on defense, and I think it's going to take a little bit for Westbrook to catch him (if he ever does).

Westbrook is definitely a much better scorer and shooter, though, as mentioned, and that's now (as he develops further, he will probably far outpace Rondo in that respect).

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think defense is extremely hard to accurately quantify for the NBA, and especially at the point guard position. It'll be interesting to see these stats develop and evolve over the coming years.

[Chief Rum]

I think defense is extremely hard to accurately quantify for the NBA, and especially at the point guard position. It'll be interesting to see these stats develop and evolve over the coming years.

Agree 100% there. My problem is the complexity of said stats usually outstrips my willingess to pay them any attention.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Rondo is an excellent distributor and defender (I know at least one of the ESPN predictions - Chris Sheridan - picked him for defensive player of the year... I know, I know). The only problem with him is he can ONLY score on penetration, so the defense sags in front of him and gums up the works for everybody else.

[DaddyTorgo]

contract talks between the celts and rondo are apparently not actually dead yet

[Groundhog]

The only problem with him is he can ONLY score on penetration, so the defense sags in front of him and gums up the works for everybody else.

Unless you're the Bobcats and you decide to try and press him up and down the court. :banghead:

[Chief Rum]

contract talks between the celts and rondo are apparently not actually dead yet

I thought there was some rule, where a restricted free agent and his team had to work out a deal by the start of the season, or that was it--no extension can be signed until the summer.

I know that was the way it was with Bynum last year.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Pretty sure the deadline is October 31st this year.

[Chief Rum]

Pretty sure the deadline is October 31st this year.

Ah, that might be the same as last year. Last year the season began either right on Halloween or a day before it or something like that. I think I probably got the deadline mixed up with being attached to the start of the season, not a specific date.

[Neuqua]

The Bulls with a pretty impressive team effort against the Spurs this year. I've been worried about Rose's ankle but he had a solid 13/7/7 in 32 minutes.

[RainMaker]

Did you see Blair's line last night? How in the hell did ANY team in the 2nd round pass on this guy? I understand taking the cautious approach in round 1 (although seriously, you'll throw millions at the Brian Scalabrines of the league but not take a chance at guaranteeing late first round money on Blair?) but why on earth would you pass in round 2?

Made no sense to me either. I mean even if he only can play a year or two, you're still getting a guy who can give you a good 15 minutes a night for the league minimum.

[RainMaker]

The Bulls with a pretty impressive team effort against the Spurs this year. I've been worried about Rose's ankle but he had a solid 13/7/7 in 32 minutes.
Was at the game and have to say I was impressed. Not with the offense, but the defense. I know people were worried about us losing Gordon, but the loss actually dramatically improved their defense.

Rose didn't look like himself and seemed winded. That'll change as he gets back into game shape. Deng was real solid. Was really impressed by Taj Gibson too at times. I think he can give us some real solid minutes off the bench. He's real aggressive. I know we caught San Antonio on back-to-back nights, but the defense still really seemed to be on top of things and didn't give San Antonio many easy buckets.

[Groundhog]

I was surprised Johnson didn't get any minutes tonight for the Bulls.

[RainMaker]

He wasn't impressive in preseason. Seems real raw and a project. Has the physical skills though. I guess at that spot in the draft it's mostly projects and marginal NBA players. I still would have liked to have seen them take a guy who can give them 10-15 minutes a night off the bench considering they are a year or two from contending.

[TroyF]

Lawson and Blair both had average games. The Blazer put in a huge backcourt and Lawson got abused by Fernandez. (a guy he just shouldn't have been D'ing up on. Why he wasn't on Dre is beyond me)

I know it's only one game, but the Blazers look like there is something wrong with them. They really lacked fire. Miller looked like a horrible fit. Oden looked like a reserve big, not a #1 overall pick in the draft. Aldridge was simply shut down by Kenyon Martin. (who has put up two excellent defensive efforts so far this year.)

They had everything they wanted last night. They had the team they wanted to beat get into town late because of a snow storm. The Nuggets were without JR Smith due to the suspension. The Blazers were home and rested. The Nuggets played like garbage for most of the night and had one offensive rebound through the first 44 minutes of the game.

I really, really hope the Nuggets use make a deal for another serviceable big before the deadline. if they get a little more size inside, I think they have the pieces to make another deep run. Carmelo looks like he's going to put together a serious MVP run too.

[Samdari]

, but the Blazers look like there is something wrong with them.

Miller looked like a horrible fit.

Oden looked like a reserve big, not a #1 overall pick in the draft.

I think what wrong with the Blazers, and Oden, is the 5 shots Oden took. When they did get him the ball on the block, he makes a simple drop step, and there is nothing the Nuggets could do.

Problem is, that happened twice. Twice

Meanwhile, LaMarcus Aldridge took 15 jump shots. Roy, 16.

Just crazy.

This team is way too concerned about "getting theirs." They won't be a threat at all.

Great start for the Nuggets, beating the two teams supposed to challenge for their division in the first two games.

[TroyF]

I think what wrong with the Blazers, and Oden, is the 5 shots Oden took. When they did get him the ball on the block, he makes a simple drop step, and there is nothing the Nuggets could do.

Problem is, that happened twice. Twice

Meanwhile, LaMarcus Aldridge took 15 jump shots. Roy, 16.

Just crazy.

This team is way too concerned about "getting theirs." They won't be a threat at all.

Great start for the Nuggets, beating the two teams supposed to challenge for their division in the first two games.

No question. On the other side of it, if you make a quick double on Oden, he looks lost. (see the 7 turnovers he made against Houston)

I think the Aldridge contract will be the one that hurts them long term. He's a nice player. He's not worth the money they paid him. He's also one of the softest big men in the league.

They still have a ton of talent and on any given night they can beat anyone, but I actually am a little more nervous about OKC then them. Not only for the future, but for this year.

[Samdari]

No question. On the other side of it, if you make a quick double on Oden, he looks lost. (see the 7 turnovers he made against Houston)

I think the Aldridge contract will be the one that hurts them long term. He's a nice player. He's not worth the money they paid him. He's also one of the softest big men in the league.

They still have a ton of talent and on any given night they can beat anyone, but I actually am a little more nervous about OKC then them. Not only for the future, but for this year.

Oden may never figure out how to handle double teams. But, he won't learn by watching Roy and Aldridge hoist jump shots before he touches the ball. Aldridge is especially galling - if you had not mentioned it here, there would be no way of knowing from last night's game he was, in fact, a big man.

Well, Portland did actually challenge for the division last year, in fact tying Denver for the championship, and losing nothing. They were 31 games better than OKC last year. Not sure they have lost enough nor that OKC has improved enough to close that large a gap. OKC has probably improved, but not by 31 games, and I don't expect Portland to be significantly worse.

[Gary Gorski]

Over/under on when Nate McMillian gets run? 30 games?

I don't understand how some of these franchises operate in terms of cash. You wait years to get out from under bad deals, draft well, make smart trades, free up some cash....and then dump it on whoever is left standing to take it. If Andre Miller was the missing piece then he should have been handed the PG job the day he arrived and Blake should have been told that he's a hard-nosed player who will make an excellent reserve on our now championship contending team. Instead they piss Miller off. Then since Roy got his money (which he damn well should have) they felt they had to give Aldridge his too. Why? Is there suddenly a shortage of 6-11 big men who can't even average 8 rebounds a game?

What's truly amazing is the enormous sums of money some of these teams (Portland, Detroit) dumped on players when their own team didn't even make a serious (or in some cases any) effort to bring them back. They didn't even want anything for these guys. Hell Milwaukee didn't even want the option to match Charlie V's contract. No sign and trades - just take them. Yes I know the economy played *some* role in that but yet teams are still willing to lock up average to good players for the long term now for way more money than they are worth to not lose that asset for nothing in free agency.

Troy mentioned OKC - Sam Presti knows how to do it. What big time free agent did they overpay this summer to not fit in with their team? That's right - nobody. I would not be surprised to see them as a playoff team this year and one that can make some noise in the next 2-3 years and they did it through the draft and trading for and signing players that can fit their needs with reasonable salaries.

[TroyF]

good points samdari.

I know how good Portland was last year. I thought they had a real chance to be something special this year. Tons of cap room, young stars, etc.

Then I watched their first two games. They don't look coherent at all. As you noted, they are playing selfishly. They had a horrible preseason. They've looked disinterested in two home games to open up the year.

I really, really don't like what I'm seeing out of them. If they don't get it together, I think they'll be 8-10 games worse than last year. (no, I'm not joking) Maybe OKC can't make up all of that ground, but they have a better constructed team in my opinion.

Maybe I'm judging too harshly after some preseson games and a couple regular season ones. The question I have though: If they look this poor at home, what makes you think they can go on the road and beat ANYONE right now?

We'll see if my doom and gloom is right. @Houston tomorrow, @OKC on Sunday.

[RainMaker]

I think what wrong with the Blazers, and Oden, is the 5 shots Oden took. When they did get him the ball on the block, he makes a simple drop step, and there is nothing the Nuggets could do.

Problem is, that happened twice. Twice

Meanwhile, LaMarcus Aldridge took 15 jump shots. Roy, 16.

Just crazy.

This team is way too concerned about "getting theirs." They won't be a threat at all.

Great start for the Nuggets, beating the two teams supposed to challenge for their division in the first two games.
I think that's the problem you run into when a team doesn't have a heirarchy on the court. You have a lot of real good players and no superstars. It can sometimes work on veteran teams but rarely on young ones.

[whomario]

We are 1-2 games into the season folks ... Miller playing 30 minutes off the bench imo is a good idea. Yeah, if he doesn´t buy into it that´s an issue, but just because some media try to find a story here means it is actually true and will prevent him from playing good ball ?
Of course he was disapointed that he was not getting the starting job, why wouldn´t he ? Doesn´t mean he won´t do a good job in his role later on in the season and then in April/May and maybe June.

They were very harmonic last year but got exposed when there was no one but Roy and maybe Aldridge able to create anything. That´s why they brought in Miller (and are looking to expand Fernandez ballhandling-duties) and if Roy isn´t accepting playing off the ball for stretches i call "Idiot" (and from some of his interviews it seems that way unfortunately) because he saw damn well against Houston last season what happens when he´s the only one handling the ball.

If Roy doesn´t buy into it, then getting Miller won´t turn out to be a good move. But then it´s Roy to blame as well.

Of course he loves plaiyng with Blake, a guy giving him the ball with 20 on the shotclock, who then goes out of the way and waits for the kickout. But that doesn´t mean it´s what best for the team ...

Look at the Celtics, allowing a non-shooting PG to handle the ball and give the stars a break and good looks and easy baskets in the process. What´s not to like in having a good PG instead of a "shoots the 3 and goes out of the way" guy ?

That´s one of the big gripes i have about the NBA, the stars inability to consider playing off the ball and on the other hand everyone expecting guys growing up being stars in College to suddenly stand in the corner all game and wait for a kick out every 1 in 10 trips up the court.

That´s what i love about teams like the Rockets and Coaches like Adelmann, even with Yao they got everybody touches (even to a fault) and are mixing things up.

but i´m propably just babbling ...


EDIT : As for the money situation : Paul Allen. Yeah, it´s not fair but he´s there. I mean, if you are willing to pay the money it´s not really an issue wether you are going to be simply over the cap or over the cap by a lot.
So for them keeping Aldridge for more money rather than finding a replacement for less actually makes sense. Plus, they aren´t exactly in dire need of rebounding from the 4 spot with Oden and Przybilla being like the best rebounding tandem at either frontcourt position in the league.
I mean, they were the No1 rebounding team last year (+5.4) and outrebounded both the Rockets (by 18) and the Nuggets (by 8) handily so far .

[whomario]

Just in case you missed it (and look here in time) :

Bulls-Celtics just started, might be interesting after that great series.

Plus later tonight Suns-Warriors. Over/under 260 points ?

marquis daniels´ hair is interesting ...

[Chief Rum]

marquis daniels´ hair is interesting ...

More or less interesting than Artest's hair?

[whomario]

More or less interesting than Artest's hair?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/images/photos/000/744/725/91243597.jpg.13080.0_feature.jpg?1256927186


this version ? About equal ;)

Dwight Howard in the 1st quarter : 12 points, 11 boards, 2-9 FTs.

[whomario]

Carter injures his ankle, hope it´s just a sprain ...

Boston looks pretty good ... Leading chicago by 25 (who are on a back-to-back, but still)

a great game by Rondo. You won´t find many players being this much of a factor without scoring (1-2 shooting for 2 points). 15 assists on 1 TO.

[Big Fo]

Carter injures his ankle, hope it´s just a sprain ...

It's a mild sprain, he's day-to-day, so that's good news.

Howard's one-handed catch/block was impressive. It was another 20-20 night for him.

[duckman]

Thunder are 2-0 after beating the Pistons 91-83. They are playing MUCH better than last season.

[MikeVic]

Ah Wince Carter. I liked Orlando last year, and they had to go and get Carter to make me not like the team. Great.

[whomario]

I got a real kick out of seeing Nash having a big assist game (20 to go with 18 points) and seeing Frye do well who i really wish well. He made 6/7 on three last night, must be sth in the water in Phoenix that makes everybody a 3 point shooter and score the basketball. Or for a more plausible explanation : Must be kind of fun playing with this Nash character ;)
There´s no one in the league that´s better at recognizing/creating passing angles for people cutting to the basket, his way to keep the dribble alive until a cutting man gets open should be recomended viewing for any guard.

The charlotte-new york game yesterday was great comedy towards the end, so many mistakes on offense ... The Bobcats can´t finish games and the knicks end-game management was disastrous.
Really loved seeing Gallinari doing well. Yeah, he can´t guard anybody (Even slalom-vlade tried to attack him off the bounce and he does that like twice a year) but he´s got great fluidity in his offensive movement to go with a great shooting touch.

Nellie-lineup watch : 2 game, 2 different starting lineups (randolph in place of turiaf)

[DaddyTorgo]

Celtics are delicious!

[whomario]

Knicks getting booed less than a half into their home opener, good times :popcorn:

They are chucking up 3s at an alarming clip early in the year. Gallinari promoted to the starting lineup (and he´s the sole reason i watch them in league pass until Portland-Houston starts) , that was fast.

[whomario]

Manu Ginobili apparently just took out a bat (yes, the flying creature thingy) :D Play of the Year !

The Halloween game between the Kings and Spurs was interrupted twice when a bat began flying around the court -- that is, until Manu Ginobili whacked the bat out of midair with his hand.
This feat of supreme hand-eye coordination will top all of the day's highlight reels -- he dazed the bat with the blow, then picked it up and walked it off the court, waving to the delighted crowd. We sense a "Where Amazing Happens" commercial in the making.


Ariza looking good.

http://i33.tinypic.com/sbowmp.gif

ok, he actually kinda killed it, this i don´t approve ...

[miami_fan]

Can someone get this guy the mental help he obviously needs?

Stephon Marbury booted out of front-row seat at MSG for New York Knicks home opener - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4612266)

NEW YORK -- Stephon Marbury didn't steal the show at the New York Knicks home opener. But he sure provided quite a sideshow.

The former Knicks point guard made good on his promise to show up for his former team's home opener and sit in the front row. But Marbury was asked to leave those seats when ushers examined his ticket and determined he was sitting in the wrong spot.

Rather than relocate, Marbury left the arena just as the first quarter was ending.

Adding to the bizarre scene, Marbury pulled out a video camera shortly after arriving and began shooting the live action, at one point standing up -- thereby blocking the view of the fans behind him -- while play was ongoing.

A Madison Square Garden security official spoke to Marbury during a timeout, and it was then discovered that Marbury was holding a ticket for Row A. But the seat he was occupying -- just a couple chairs down from Spike Lee's regular seat -- was actually in Row AA, and Marbury was asked to move.

After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston Celtics early in the summer, Marbury remained unsigned through the summer. He recently said he plans to sit out the entire 2009-10 season before making a comeback next season.

[molson]

That whole A/AA row thing has disappointed me in the past too.

It's hard to believe the Celtics offered him $2 million. He'll never see that money again.

[stevew]

Cavs best the BobCraps to even their record. 4 games in 5 days in at least 3 cities to start the season sucks.

And Shack is old.

[Karlifornia]

Brandon Jennings looking solid so far. He seems really dedicated to getting better.

[Neon_Chaos]

That whole A/AA row thing has disappointed me in the past too.

It's hard to believe the Celtics offered him $2 million. He'll never see that money again.

I don't think he needs money. :)

[stevew]

I dunno, Antoine Walker probably made about as much as Starbury and is broke.

These dudes and their money, wow.

[whomario]

Suns are 3-0 :) Ah well, just 3 games but i sure wish that they have a good last run with their run n gun style.

Channing Frye made 20 3s in 4 years and 5500 minutes of play, now with Phoenix he has 13 in 3 games (96 minutes), 6 apiece the last 2.

Hill looks like a 25 year old out there :eek:

Paul and Rondo engaged in a pretty funny little catfight :popcorn:

[Chief Rum]

Suns are 3-0 :) Ah well, just 3 games but i sure wish that they have a good last run with their run n gun style.

Channing Frye made 20 3s in 4 years and 5500 minutes of play, now with Phoenix he has 13 in 3 games (96 minutes), 6 apiece the last 2.

Hill looks like a 25 year old out there :eek:

Paul and Rondo engaged in a pretty funny little catfight :popcorn:

Should be 2-1. They were outplayed everywhere but the final score in LA.

Fortunately for them, the Clippers are still the Clippers.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Rondo and the Celtics reportedly agree on a 5/$55 deal. Fair for both sides, I'd say. Hopefully they can put a team around him that allows him to shine.

[DaddyTorgo]

Rondo and the Celtics reportedly agree on a 5/$55 deal. Fair for both sides, I'd say. Hopefully they can put a team around him that allows him to shine.

excellent!

I love the guy, and as far as +defense and pass-first PG's go in the league he's right up there. And he can score if he needs to - from penetration.

Not sure he'll age well since speed is a huge weapon of his, but we have him locked-up through years when he's young so that's not a worry yet.

[Sublime 2]

Rondo and the Celtics reportedly agree on a 5/$55 deal. Fair for both sides, I'd say. Hopefully they can put a team around him that allows him to shine.

Awesome news!!

[TroyF]

Good signing for the Celtics.

Early observations from games I've seen:

1) I still think Orlando is the best team in the East.
2) Boston isn't far behind.
3) Carmelo Anthony - 117 minutes, 113 points, 69 shot attempts, 13 assists, 6 turnovers. . . yikes. . .
4) Brandon Jennings looks like the real deal.
5) Outside of Orlando, I don't know who can score on the Celtics defense. I think Orlando will.
6) Channing Frye is playing really, really well.
7) The Knicks are really, really bad, but they play hard. (the ending of the Knicks/Bobcats game was comedy gold)
8) The Clippers actually look good, even in their losses. About the time Griffin comes back, Camby will go down for 10 or 15. Still, I like the team they have.
9) Amare, I took you over Melo in my fantasy draft. I hated to do it, but I thought you were going to be good. Please, please start doing that. k, thx.
10) The Nets look horrible. Just horrible.

[Groundhog]

1) I still think Orlando is the best team in the East.
2) Boston isn't far behind.

It's really tough to tell. Before the season I thought Orlando was far-and-away the best team in the East. Then I watched the Bos-Cle & Bos-Chi games, and well, now I'm not sure. Boston looks really, really good. Like 2008 championship team good.


4) Brandon Jennings looks like the real deal.

Yes he does. I'll admit that I thought he was going to stink. Shows you once again how big a difference there is between the Euro game and the US game.

6) Channing Frye is playing really, really well.

He's playing like the kind of player he looked like he'd develop into as a rookie Knick. Finally.

10) The Nets look horrible. Just horrible.

I like their foundation of young talent, but they don't have any superstars. Lopez could get there.

[TroyF]

Boston looks great now. But tell me who is better prepared to deal with injuries? Orlando is scary deep. I think they could even lose Howard for 15 games and still go 11-4. They were missing three starters the other day and won a game. That's ridiculously good.

The Celtics? I love em. Their defense sucks the life right out of you. They also have 4 key rotation players 32 or older. (Allen, Peirce, KG, Wallace) Only Vince Carter fits that criteria for the Magic.

[Lathum]

24 total first quarter points in barnburner between the Nets-Bobcats and it looks like there are less people in attendance then at a WNBA game.

Glad I decided not to get the NBA League Pass. The Saints will probably outscore both these teams tonight.

[RainMaker]

4) Brandon Jennings looks like the real deal.

Looking forward to seeing him live tomorrow night. Was dreading this game on the schedule and trying to unload the tickets but now it seems like I'll get to see this year's ROY play.

[DaddyTorgo]

Boston looks great now. But tell me who is better prepared to deal with injuries? Orlando is scary deep. I think they could even lose Howard for 15 games and still go 11-4. They were missing three starters the other day and won a game. That's ridiculously good.

The Celtics? I love em. Their defense sucks the life right out of you. They also have 4 key rotation players 32 or older. (Allen, Peirce, KG, Wallace) Only Vince Carter fits that criteria for the Magic.

I think with the addition of Wallace the Celtics are much better positioned to defend Orlando (well that and Orlando losing Turk)

[TroyF]

I think with the addition of Wallace the Celtics are much better positioned to defend Orlando (well that and Orlando losing Turk)


I just don't see it. Orlando will spread the floor with four outside bombers. Sheed is a much better post defender than perimeter defender at this point in his career. I also don't think Orlando is going to miss Turk. VC can create his own shot and score at the end of games. A healthy Nelson gives the Celtics a lot of problems with his penetration and kick outs.

I could be wrong. The Celtics are a damned good team. I just think Orlando is better.

[Chief Rum]

The Clips play very strong again for most of the game, and again, almost fall apart in the second half and end up having to eek out a home win against a not great Wolves team.

Really, this comes down to coaching. There were lots of second half failures last year, especially in the fourth quarter, where the team would be humming along and then would just blow it. That's how they lost to PHX last week, and how they lost to UTA on Friday.

The real reason the Clips struggle now isn't personnel, but coaching. Someone has to tell Dunleavy as a coach, he makes a very good GM, bump himself upstairs permanently and get someone to head the squad who knows enough to get out of their way and let them do their thing.

[whomario]

24 total first quarter points in barnburner between the Nets-Bobcats



got worse apparently for the Nets, they didn´t score a single point for more than 10 minutes in the 3rd/4th quarter, went 0-11 with 9 TOs in that stretch. 24-0 run Bobcats and the win.
Gerald Wallace with 24/20 :eek:

Rockets beat the Jazz by 17 in Utah and are now 3-1 :) Scoring 113 points, 8 player in double figures, including Chuck Hayes for the 2nd time in 3 years (had quite a few in 06-07). Brooks 19 and 9 assists again, Scola 14/15, Budinger 17 off the bench, Ariza 15.
Battier a +36 in a 17 point game.

New York with another huger 4th quarter, this time enough to win a game.

Kevin Martin scores 48 to help the Kings beat the Grizzlies. The other 4 Kings starters (may, evans, Thompson, Mason) combine for 12 points. Off the bench Hawes has 21/11/7 , Udrih 16, Casspi 15 and Nocioni 13.

Casspi looks great , really fits the NBA game well with his ability to run the floor very well and shoot the ball.

[whomario]

Allen Iverson is an absolute Idiot. Why you would sign him is beyond me. Go tell me he "still got it", but even if he´d score a guaranteed 25 a game i wouldn´t want him anywhere near a team i support and how the Grizzlies let him anywhere near their young talent is beyond me.


He said he had no problems with his hamstring, but had a big problem with the playing time he got from coach Lionel Hollins

“Go look at my resume and that will show you that I’m not a sixth man,” Iverson said. “I don’t think it has anything to do with me being selfish. It’s just who I am. I don’t want to change what gave me all the success that I’ve had since I’ve been in this league.”


per yahoo recap (there´s more quotes in various sources)

are you kidding me ? He misses basically all training camp and all of the preseason games, missed time in Detroit as well and now he´s complaining ? Because of playing time in his first game back from injury ? His first freaking game ?

[Neon_Chaos]

Allen Iverson is an absolute Idiot. Why you would sign him is beyond me. Go tell me he "still got it", but even if he´d score a guaranteed 25 a game i wouldn´t want him anywhere near a team i support and how the Grizzlies let him anywhere near their young talent is beyond me.



per yahoo recap (there´s more quotes in various sources)

are you kidding me ? He misses basically all training camp and all of the preseason games, missed time in Detroit as well and now he´s complaining ? Because of playing time in his first game back from injury ? His first freaking game ?

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[JPhillips]

If you're a big name free agent wanting to get into the NYC market after this season, who do you think is closer to being a championship team the Knicks or the Nets?

[whomario]

Current Roster ? Nets.

Overall situation ? Knicks.

The nets have a few nice pieces that would work well as 2nd, 3rd or 4th options, the Knicks don´t have that and are letting basically half the Roster walk after the season, which gives them a to of flexibility to build a team around whoever they might get as a superstar/cornerstone.

[Samdari]

Current Roster ? Nets.

Overall situation ? Knicks.

The nets have a few nice pieces that would work well as 2nd, 3rd or 4th options, the Knicks don´t have that and are letting basically half the Roster walk after the season, which gives them a to of flexibility to build a team around whoever they might get as a superstar/cornerstone.

I think LeBron will be a sign and trade, so those pieces will be gone.

If by "overall situation" you mean that the Nets barely meet the definition of "in the New York market" I would agree wholeheartedly. LeBron being there would change that somewhat, but the Knicks are WAY ahead in the consciousness and media coverage in New York.

[TroyF]

I think LeBron will be a sign and trade, so those pieces will be gone.

If by "overall situation" you mean that the Nets barely meet the definition of "in the New York market" I would agree wholeheartedly. LeBron being there would change that somewhat, but the Knicks are WAY ahead in the consciousness and media coverage in New York.


First off, I don't think it'll be an S&T if he leaves. (I think he's gone, but I'll put the if in there anyway) Lebron will be unrestricted. It is not in his best interest to take away any piece of a team he's going to in order to help the Cavs. It's not in the Cavs best interest to take high salary

From a media standpoint, the Knicks are better. From an ownership standpoint I think both are extremely strong situations. (Neither owner will give a damn about the luxury tax)

The Nets have more current players than the Knicks. . . but how quickly will that change if Lebron is a Knick? The Knicks look to have one solid peice already in Gallarni. Bron would make two. I don't think it'd be long for a third or fourth to come down the pike.

We are down to 5 unbeatens early in the season. Celtics, Heat, Magic, Nuggets, Suns.

Denver starts off a 4 games in 5 nights trek against the Pacers, Nets, Heat and Hawks. The Hawks game is close to an auto loss. (very tough to win your 4th in 5th night on the road against a decent team, even early in the year) After those four games, JR Smith will be able to come back.

Miami is also a tough one. I'll be thrilled if the Nuggets take care of business against the Pacers/Nets, split the four and end the trip 5-2 overall. Without JR and with two critical division games early that'd be a sweet start.

[Chief Rum]

You know, I have seen a lot of S & T references by a few posters recently with respect to next summer, and I am not sure they realize that, for whatever reason, S & T's are pretty rare now. You just don't see them a lot, whereas before you saw them all the time (talking years ago now).

For the most part now, when a guy hits free agency, he's straight gone to another team, or he doesn't sign with anyone at all or goes to Europe.

[MrBug708]

I think a lot of S & T's have also decreased because a few of the teams that would normally be involved with them, were waiting for this next FA class

[molson]

If by "overall situation" you mean that the Nets barely meet the definition of "in the New York market" I would agree wholeheartedly. LeBron being there would change that somewhat, but the Knicks are WAY ahead in the consciousness and media coverage in New York.

I guess we'll know by the offseason where the Nets will end up - a move to Brooklyn and a rebranding as the "New York Nets" or "Brooklyn Nets" might move them up the NYC sports ladder of consciousness quite a bit. (A move to Newark might make them slightly more relevant, as they'd be within PATH access of NYC)

I can definitely see a LeBron-anchored "Brooklyn Nets" quickly surpassing the Knicks in trendiness/media attention.

[Samdari]

I can definitely see a LeBron-anchored "Brooklyn Nets" quickly surpassing the Knicks in trendiness/media attention.

I agree, even if they're in New Jersey, which they are assured of next season.

But remember, LeBron is going to make whatever team he is on relevant, and he knows this.

While New Jersey with LeBron would be more relevant than a LeBronless Knicks, LeBron on the Knicks >> LeBron on the Nets.

[molson]

Has there been any more speculation/talk of LeBron considering Europe if they offered him way more than an NBA team could, like $50 million/year?

The ensuing chaos would definitely be entertaining enough to root for that possibility, however much a longshot it might be.

[Samdari]

Has there been any more speculation/talk of LeBron considering Europe if they offered him way more than an NBA team could, like $50 million/year?

The ensuing chaos would definitely be entertaining enough to root for that possibility, however much a longshot it might be.

The idea of him being in New York started pretty much when he was drafted with the speculation (or more) being that he was worth $100 million MORE to Nike than he was in Cleveland. And that was just Nike. Total dollar value to him of endorsements by playing in NY/LA would be tough for a Euro team to make up in salary. Don't know what his endorsement value would be in Europe though.

[RainMaker]

Not to mention that a decision like Europe wouldn't just be about money. He does want to cement a legacy as one of the greatest players of all time. You can't do that in Europe.

[RainMaker]

Just wondering what Rondo has to do to get a fine/suspension from the league. I can't even count how many cheap shots and fights he's tried to start. He tried to pick a fight with Chris Paul after the game the other night. Does he have compromising pictures of Stern or something? Even Jordan got suspended in his career.

[TroyF]

Just wondering what Rondo has to do to get a fine/suspension from the league. I can't even count how many cheap shots and fights he's tried to start. He tried to pick a fight with Chris Paul after the game the other night. Does he have compromising pictures of Stern or something? Even Jordan got suspended in his career.


I'm still stunned at the garbage he got away with in last year's Bulls series. I was cheering for the Celtics and thought he should have gotten at least a game for his BS.

[Groundhog]

It may not be all about money, but the fact remains that the Cavs can pay LeBron more than anyone else. If he does leave, I'd be surprised if it isn't a sign-and-trade. Having said that, I still don't think he leaves Cleveland.

I personally hope, outside of my pro-Cavs bias, that he doesn't because half the league (ok, slight exaggeration) shouldn't be rewarded for essentially tanking in the hope that they'll get LeBron/Bosh/whoever.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just wondering what Rondo has to do to get a fine/suspension from the league. I can't even count how many cheap shots and fights he's tried to start. He tried to pick a fight with Chris Paul after the game the other night. Does he have compromising pictures of Stern or something? Even Jordan got suspended in his career.


wahhh wahhh wahhhh

[DaddyTorgo]

I personally hope that he doesn't because half the league (ok, slight exaggeration) shouldn't be rewarded for essentially tanking in the hope that they'll get LeBron/Bosh/whoever.


i agree

[DeToxRox]

It may not be all about money, but the fact remains that the Cavs can pay LeBron more than anyone else. If he does leave, I'd be surprised if it isn't a sign-and-trade. Having said that, I still don't think he leaves Cleveland.

I personally hope, outside of my pro-Cavs bias, that he doesn't because half the league (ok, slight exaggeration) shouldn't be rewarded for essentially tanking in the hope that they'll get LeBron/Bosh/whoever.

His NBA salary has nothing to do with it. It's pennies compared to the endorsement dollars he'd get in NY over Cleveland. He wants to be the first billion dollar athlete in sports. Now tell me how he accomplishes that in Cleveland?

[DeToxRox]

Dola, if LBJ wants to stay in Cleveland, he'll sign a new deal by what, January 1st? I am not sure when next years cap is set but if he is going to stay in Cleveland I have no doubts he'd do it during the year. The longer that drags out, the less likely he is a Cav and the Cavs go back to irrelevance.

[MikeVic]

It may not be all about money, but the fact remains that the Cavs can pay LeBron more than anyone else. If he does leave, I'd be surprised if it isn't a sign-and-trade. Having said that, I still don't think he leaves Cleveland.

I personally hope, outside of my pro-Cavs bias, that he doesn't because half the league (ok, slight exaggeration) shouldn't be rewarded for essentially tanking in the hope that they'll get LeBron/Bosh/whoever.

lol, why is Bosh put up there with LeBron?

[DeToxRox]

lol, why is Bosh put up there with LeBron?

Glad you said it. No one believes me but I'd absolutely not want to throw a ton of money at Bosh. For a "superstar" his teams never do much. He's a great stat sheet filler but watching him play, I don't ever see anything from him that wows me. If he doesn't have the ball, there's no point in covering him because he doesn't do anything.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I hope LeBron leaves because the Cavs have utterly failed to surround him with talent. If they haven't gotten him help yet, why should he think they will over the life of his next contract?

[Groundhog]

His NBA salary has nothing to do with it. It's pennies compared to the endorsement dollars he'd get in NY over Cleveland. He wants to be the first billion dollar athlete in sports. Now tell me how he accomplishes that in Cleveland?

By winning six titles in Cleveland? I don't know. I don't know that he can get to that level, even if he wanted to. I don't think he'd get it by going to the Knicks or the Nets.

[Groundhog]

Glad you said it. No one believes me but I'd absolutely not want to throw a ton of money at Bosh. For a "superstar" his teams never do much. He's a great stat sheet filler but watching him play, I don't ever see anything from him that wows me. If he doesn't have the ball, there's no point in covering him because he doesn't do anything.

Heck, I'm not big on him either. Our nickname for Bosh is "Mr Vagina" because he plays like he's got one. Having said that, I'm sure he'll get a max contract and would be one of the guys that the Knicks or whoever would like to sign along with LeBron.

[DeToxRox]

By winning six titles in Cleveland? I don't know. I don't know that he can get to that level, even if he wanted to. I don't think he'd get it by going to the Knicks or the Nets.

Do you truthfully think he even could win 1 title in Cleveland with the awful talent they've assembled for him up until this point? The Knicks are building a team specifically for LBJ with a coach he loved playing under at the Olympics. He is going to go to a team with has some nice younger players, though by no means great, but also a team that will be able to afford another big time player to complement Bron. Meanwhile Cleveland has what exactly for him?

[DeToxRox]

Heck, I'm not big on him either. Our nickname for Bosh is "Mr Vagina" because he plays like he's got one. Having said that, I'm sure he'll get a max contract and would be one of the guys that the Knicks or whoever would like to sign along with LeBron.

I can understand that. Bosh will get big money but I personally think a guy like Al Jefferson blows him out of the water. Bosh though seems to be Bron's BFF so I could see a situation where Bosh takes less to play with him in a place like NY.

[Groundhog]

I hope LeBron leaves because the Cavs have utterly failed to surround him with talent. If they haven't gotten him help yet, why should he think they will over the life of his next contract?

I disagree. They've surrounded him with some decent players. There isn't a Pippen (Larry Hughes didn't work out so well...) to his Jordan, but there's enough talent to win a lot of games. The problem with the Cavs is coaching IMO, far more than it is talent. They are so inept in a halfcourt offense 70% of the time that it's a wonder they win as much as they do (or did).

[Groundhog]

Do you truthfully think he even could win 1 title in Cleveland with the awful talent they've assembled for him up until this point? The Knicks are building a team specifically for LBJ with a coach he loved playing under at the Olympics. He is going to go to a team with has some nice younger players, though by no means great, but also a team that will be able to afford another big time player to complement Bron. Meanwhile Cleveland has what exactly for him?

Again, I don't think the talent in Cleveland is awful. They aren't the Lakers (or Celtics, or Magic), but they have a pretty solid group of roleplayers, lacking only a 2nd "big name" player. That's a pretty big piece, sure, but they've tried to bring in guys to help them, most haven't panned out.

There are lots of reasons for him to go to the Knicks, but I think it's far from a sure thing that they'd be able to field a team better than the Cavs are today. They've got some young guys, none of whom are certain to be a #2 guy on a great team, and they also don't have their lottery pick next season. What they do have is cap space, but that doesn't always work out for you either.

[Groundhog]

I can understand that. Bosh will get big money but I personally think a guy like Al Jefferson blows him out of the water.

No argument there. If Al Jeff stays healthy, he's one of the best bigs in the league. Bosh reminds me of Amar'e Stoudamire in a few ways, but mostly in the way that I don't consider them to be the focal point on offense for a "winning" team. They both get their numbers, but I don't think either of them does enough outside of that to warrant their status.

[DeToxRox]

No argument there. If Al Jeff stays healthy, he's one of the best bigs in the league. Bosh reminds me of Amar'e Stoudamire in a few ways, but mostly in the way that I don't consider them to be the focal point on offense for a "winning" team. They both get their numbers, but I don't think either of them does enough outside of that to warrant their status.

100% agreement. Ask either of them to shoulder the load and it's going to be a disaster. That said, put one of them with a Bron, Wade or Kobe and you have a 70 win team.

[DaddyTorgo]

Celtics - 92
Sixers - 59

with like 6 minutes to go in the game

LOL

[TroyF]

It may not be all about money, but the fact remains that the Cavs can pay LeBron more than anyone else. If he does leave, I'd be surprised if it isn't a sign-and-trade. Having said that, I still don't think he leaves Cleveland.

I personally hope, outside of my pro-Cavs bias, that he doesn't because half the league (ok, slight exaggeration) shouldn't be rewarded for essentially tanking in the hope that they'll get LeBron/Bosh/whoever.


NBA teams have always been rewarded for tanking it. How do you think the Nuggets and Cavs tied for the worst record the year of the Lebron draft? They tanked it, won as few of games as possible.

As for the sign and trade, who does that benefit? The Cavs. That's it. Lebron can get some more money in an S&T, but Lebron wouldn't agree to go to the Knicks and have them trade Gallarni or the Nets and have them trade Lopez. He'll want the most available talent around him as possible. If Lebron leaves Cleveland, the Cavs are left high and dry.

Celtics with another blowout. Nuggets with a blowout as well. (though they played pretty poorly)

[BishopMVP]

Celtics - 92
Sixers - 59

with like 6 minutes to go in the game

LOLTwo weird things from the 10 minutes I watched between hockey periods - the refs were having a weird Donaghy-like contest to call all fouls non-shooting, leading to a Sheed technical, and Rondo actively passing up uncontested layups out in front of everyone to pass back to Pierce between multiple defenders. Pierce still made the contested layup, but I'm not a fan of the decision.

[RainMaker]

Speaking of Lebron, Sam Smith had an interesting view on what could happen (on TV and an article he wrote). New York would almost be a step down surrounding cast wise. New Jersey has a lot of question marks with new ownership, stadiums, etc. So what about the Lakers? He said he's heard from some sources that the scenario has been battered around by people.

Essentially Lebron tells the Cavs he wants to play in LA and that's it. A sign and trade ensues. Lakers give up Bynum and a slew of other young guys and draft picks (and an expiring contract or two). It leaves the Cavs with a 23-year old Center to build around and some draft picks which is better than nothing. Kobe's getting up there in age so Lebron takes the reigns from him in a couple years after they win a couple championships.

I personally think he stays in Cleveland because there aren't really any good options out there. New York is a disaster and will waste his prime years for nothing. New Jersey is interesting but as I mentioned, lot of questions on the direction of that franchise. I don't see him going small market. The Lakers and/or Clipper make some sense.

As a darkhorse, I'll throw out my Bulls. He'd step in with Derrick Rose entering his 3rd year and on the verge of becoming one of the elite point guards in the game. Luol Deng is a solid #3 option. Noah gives some good energy and can run the floor. They also have some decent young guys like Taj Gibson who look like they could be a starter. I'd have to say that it would make them the favorites.

[Chief Rum]

This ain't going to happen.

But...it has been tossed around that the Clippers--except for the fact that they are the Clippers--would be an excellent fit for LeBron. They have cap space and more coming off, and a lot of very good young talent. They should be able to pay LeBron a max contract. Plus, they're in LA, and LeBron can go head to head with Kobe.

Like I said, ain't gonna happen. Still, none of the above is not true.

[bhlloy]

Clips in a few years with Griffin, Gordon and Lebron... damn. Like you say absolutely 0 chance he goes to a franchise with the history of the Clippers but it's an intriguing thought. The Lebron vs Kobe story would be insane.

Don't see any way Kobe is happy sharing the limelight with Lebron unless he decides he can't win another one without him. Plus you just spent on Odom and Artest, where is the money coming from unless somebody takes them off your hands for expirings or picks.

I still think staying with the Cavs makes the most sense It will come down to the front office guaranteeing him a second star player and Mike Brown being fired and he will stay. The lure of NY is nice but he's smart and neither of those franchises are well run.

[DeToxRox]

If Detroit played Orlando 82 times, they'd be 82-0. Too bad they have to play other teams.

Orlando gave Detroit the win today though, attempting 35 three's and only hitting on 10. It was a record for 3's attempted in a game vs Detroit.

[Lathum]

fucking OT, I had the under in the Lakers game nailed

[Coffee Warlord]

As a darkhorse, I'll throw out my Bulls. He'd step in with Derrick Rose entering his 3rd year and on the verge of becoming one of the elite point guards in the game. Luol Deng is a solid #3 option. Noah gives some good energy and can run the floor. They also have some decent young guys like Taj Gibson who look like they could be a starter. I'd have to say that it would make them the favorites.

As interesting as it would be, I'm in agreement with much of the media thinking Wade is most likely of the Big FA Crop to land in Chicago. Highly doubt they'll get a legitimate shot at any of the others.

[RainMaker]

As interesting as it would be, I'm in agreement with much of the media thinking Wade is most likely of the Big FA Crop to land in Chicago. Highly doubt they'll get a legitimate shot at any of the others.
I think Bosh would be a major option too. Might even make more sense since Rose and him can pick and roll all day.

[JeeberD]

How about that Dirk Nowitzki. 29 points in the fourth quarter, killer...

[whomario]

How about that Dirk Nowitzki. 29 points in the fourth quarter, killer...

he´s just awesome and despite being german i´m not even following him or the Mavs during the season, so it´s a nice mixture of not being a homer and still being amazed when he has a game like this :)

What is really impressive : He didn´t have a single Turnover. His career numbers are ridiculously low as well at 1.9 considering his play style and him being the focal point of the offense every game. I mean, he´s a 7 footer playing like a 3 a lot of the time, putting the ball on the floor and going for scoring opportunities all the time, often against smaller, quicker players that have the specific goal to harrass him and force him into turnovers.

Suns win in Miami, Nash with 30 points on 11-15 shooting :) Apparently busted out a zone defense in the 4th and won that quarter 29-15.

Nash´s TOs are very high through 4 games (4.5), but that´s allways the case early in the year for him, generally takes his running mates a few weeks to get used to his more adventourous passes again ;) Other than that 21.5 ppg, 12.5 apg, 54/56/100 for shooting. Good start for the old man i declare.

[BishopMVP]

Suns win in Miami, Nash with 30 points on 11-15 shooting :) Apparently busted out a zone defense in the 4th and won that quarter 29-15.Quentin ("I thought zones were only for college teams") Richardson is a pussy, especially because a zone would seem to work perfectly to his advantage.

Celtics finally have a close game, but pull out the 2-point win @Minnesota. Oleksiy Pecherov? with 24 and 8 for the T'Wolves.

[whomario]

Celtics finally have a close game, but pull out the 2-point win @Minnesota. Oleksiy Pecherov? with 24 and 8 for the T'Wolves.

Sheed now has 40 attempts from 3 compared to 13 from inside the arc, so that seems to be a pretty clear-cut job description ... Right now he´s hitting at 43% though, so more power to him.

There´s quite a few Euros playing above expectations right now, although admittedly i don´t see Pecherov performing constantly good in the future. He has a very "shaky" game, jump shooter without a particularly efficient release, very errativ moving with and without the ball, bad rebounder ...

Nelly Lineup Watch : 3 in 3 games.

Ok, admittedly Turiaf was injured and they won

played Jackson/Magette at PF and played with Biedrins or Moore at center (Biedrins foul trouble).

Morrow is a sniper, 24 points on 10-12 shooting after Nelly said he needed to get more shots (hey, he does get some things right).

Rockets loose to the Lakers in OT . Crap game from Ariza in terms of shooting the ball.
Kobe took over late and had 41 points on 15-30. Bynum 17/17 but almost matched by Chuck Hayes who got 14/14 :eek: Scola 16/13, Landry 20/8. Again 7 guys with 8+ points.

The Lakers not getting much from the bench early in the year.

[DaddyTorgo]

nice to see the C's gut one out - they were definately looking tired (hence all the front-rimming on their jumpshots that they make any other night). Strong defense down the stretch and in the bits that I saw.

[TroyF]

Nuggets and Celtics only two unbeaten teams left.

Nuggets slaughtered an overmatched Nets team. Ty Lawson had a monster game. 9/10 from the floor, 23 points in 28 minutes. In 106 minutes played, he's shooting 59% (including 5/8 from the three point line) and has 5 turnovers. An assist to to ratio nearing 3 to 1.

The Nuggets have 2 games left without JR Smith. @Miami on Friday and then @Atlanta on Saturday. (4th game in 5 nights) JR comes back for yet another back to back set on the road against the Bulls and the Bucks. (the Nuggets will have played 4 back to back sets in out of their first 9 games after that one, thanks NBA schedulers)

I don't think the Nuggets get through the next two without a loss. Teams are doubling and tripling Melo and leaving Anthony Carter as the free man. that's not a good thing. The Nuggets are still scoring, but Miami is going to be a step up in talent from our last three games. I'd be more than happy with a split and not bothered a lot if they drop 2 here.

[DaddyTorgo]

i always knew lawson was going to be a steal...idk why so many people passed on him

[DeToxRox]

i always knew lawson was going to be a steal...idk why so many people passed on him

I don't know about elsewhere but in Detroit everyone was saying at the time he had a terrible workout which caused the Pistons to take a 6'10, 175 SF instead.

God Dumars sucks.

[bhlloy]

No discussion about the AI situation in Memphis? Grizzlies finally have something going for them, pretty good young team with two bonefide scorers, a could-be-decent PG and Gasol looks much better than everyone thought at center, when the owner decides he needs to sell some more tickets and signs AI, who proceeds to bitch and moan his first two games because he thinks he should be starting and he didn't get the last shot. Should be fun to watch AI and Randolph completely destroy this team over the next couple of months.

Really all the Grizzlies needed to do was a) resign Gay and b) continue Conley and Mayo's development and they really had a solid core for the future, possibly even a contender if you get another high draft pick this year (and maybe c) see if you can make Thabeet look anything like an NBA player). And they fucked it up - failed to sign Gay who they will now either have to give a monster contract to in the offseason or let a budding superstar walk, and signed a guy who will either hamper the development of one (or both) of those guys or destroy the team because he's not getting the minutes he feels he deserves. Great job by management, Hollins must be tearing his hair out.

[Gary Gorski]

I would rank the Thabeet pick right up there with the AI signing in terms of things the Grizzlies royally screwed up. You're telling me you couldn't have gotten #8 plus something out of the Knicks for #2?

You are right, its a shame what the Grizz did with a nice young franchise. Look at a team like Atlanta - they've sucked for years but piece by piece they have built a playoff quality team. Memphis could have been on the same path. I'm not even going to go nuts on the Randolph trade - they got him for nothing, he's a talented guy and only has this year and next on his contract. Plus they needed another low post player who could score and rebound. Yes its going to probably result in some kind of headache but maybe not as bad as the mess that's coming with AI added in and at least Randolph isn't taking time away from promising young players.

Too bad Iverson went the way he did - he had such an amazing career and he's going to Stephon Marbury himself right out of the league. Rather than embracing a sixth man role while he still has some game left and latching on with a team that could win a title he ends up with a crappy team who didn't even need him but just wanted a name to sell more jerseys and seats.

[Neon_Chaos]

I would rank the Thabeet pick right up there with the AI signing in terms of things the Grizzlies royally screwed up. You're telling me you couldn't have gotten #8 plus something out of the Knicks for #2?

You are right, its a shame what the Grizz did with a nice young franchise. Look at a team like Atlanta - they've sucked for years but piece by piece they have built a playoff quality team. Memphis could have been on the same path. I'm not even going to go nuts on the Randolph trade - they got him for nothing, he's a talented guy and only has this year and next on his contract. Plus they needed another low post player who could score and rebound. Yes its going to probably result in some kind of headache but maybe not as bad as the mess that's coming with AI added in and at least Randolph isn't taking time away from promising young players.

Too bad Iverson went the way he did - he had such an amazing career and he's going to Stephon Marbury himself right out of the league. Rather than embracing a sixth man role while he still has some game left and latching on with a team that could win a title he ends up with a crappy team who didn't even need him but just wanted a name to sell more jerseys and seats.

The Grizz traded Pau Gasol to the Lakers for virtually nothing, and are now spending the same money they did on Pau to pay Zach Randolph.

The NBA: It's Amazing.
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[whomario]

Virtually nothing turns out to be a better than average 24 year old NBA Center who´s averaging 18/13 (and looking like it when seeing games) through 5 games (and should be a 15/10 guy for many years) while being improved on defense due to increasing his mobility again, just saying in the interest of full disclosure, not to defend the Grizzlies management ;)
As for Thabeet, i´ll give him a pass for at least this and next season before labeling him as anything ...

[bhlloy]

Yeah I don't hate the Randolph trade either. He's insanely talented and on his own he's not going to blow up a franchise, plus he's still only 28. If he gets his head screwed on that's a great trade for the Grizzlies.

Thabeet, yeah it looks bad when you think what they could have got for moving down. I guess we'll never know whether the Knicks actually wanted to move up or whether they were happy to get Curry at #8 (LOL) but if they were it's pretty bad when you think you could have had Jordan Hill and either another good young player or a future first and you took one of the biggest projects the league has ever seen. But let's give him a couple of years, if he can put on 40 pounds of muscle he's going to be an insane defensive force even if he never develops an offensive game (and with Mayo, Gay and maybe Randolph there he's not going to need to score much)

I had blocked out the horror of the Gasol trade TBH, yeah Marc turned out pretty good but not really the point. For a player that good who is the final piece to a championship puzzle for somebody else, you better get an absolute haul of young guys and picks and they got 1.

[Neon_Chaos]

Virtually nothing turns out to be a better than average 24 year old NBA Center who´s averaging 18/13 (and looking like it when seeing games) through 5 games (and should be a 15/10 guy for many years) while being improved on defense due to increasing his mobility again, just saying in the interest of full disclosure, not to defend the Grizzlies management ;)
As for Thabeet, i´ll give him a pass for at least this and next season before labeling him as anything ...

Aye. I overlooked Marc Gasol. :) He is a nice piece for the future.



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[TroyF]

I used to be a big AI fan. Then he came to Denver. I was sick of him within the first year. I will never, ever forget Denver's first playoff series with AI. You think Carmelo and Nene had their playoff breakouts last year? No, actually it happened in 2006/07 against the Spurs.

Melo owned Bruce Bowen in that series. He averaged 27 points, 8 boards and shot an adjusted 52% for the series. Nene averaged 15 points, 8 rebounds and played great defense on Duncan.

So what happened for Denver in the series? AI average 22.8 points and 22.8 shot attempts per game. Melo and Nene combined for 30 shots a game, AI took 23 himself and shot an adjusted 38%. That series kills me to this day.

As for the rest of the Grizzlies, they are a mess. I like Gasol. Hate Thabeet. They play zero defense. (giving up a stunning 56% adjusted FG% for the year) They are a -5.8 in turnover differential.

And now they are giving Allen Iverson 28+ minutes a game and teaching the young guys how cool it is to yell at management from the media.

Pathetic.

[Chief Rum]

Last year, the Clips got Randolph for practically nothing (poor Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas), and I said at the time, good trade, look at the numbers he has put up. Others as the time disagreed, pointed how he got his points, but his teams never win and he makes boneheaded plays way too often.

I thought they were mistaken after the first few games, where he looked very good.

They were not mistaken. Glad he's not on the team anymore, and sorry the Grizz have him, although that trade was great for the Clips. Not only did they lose Randolph and his cap clogging contract, but they turned the return (Quentin Richardson) into Sebas Telfair and Craig Smith, who are now valuable role players with upside.

[Blade6119]

Suns take down the celtics tonight, very impressive win for a team that is really exceeding my modest hopes for this season!

[Big Fo]

JJ Redick and Ryan Anderson are taking advantage of the increased playing time they're seeing from the absent Vince Carter (injury) and Rashard Lewis (illegal substance suspension). Keep slangin' them threes boys.

[DaddyTorgo]

Suns take down the celtics tonight, very impressive win for a team that is really exceeding my modest hopes for this season!

i didn't watch the whole game but apparently the reffing was extra-shitty tonight, and Sheed was hucking up ill-advised 3's late in the game. ah well...they weren't going to go undefeated and they've had a busy start to the season

[Chief Rum]

The Warriors were missing Biedrins and Turiaf, sure, but, boy, the Clips really put a hurtin' on them tonight, and in Oakland, to boot.

[whomario]

i didn't watch the whole game but apparently the reffing was extra-shitty tonight, and Sheed was hucking up ill-advised 3's late in the game. ah well...they weren't going to go undefeated and they've had a busy start to the season

Well, you couldn´t expect otherwise seeing how his style of play developed over the years ;)

As long as he´s hitting them you watch and are like "great, he stretches the floor, surprises the defense and gives us another dimension" but watch out for the games where his long ball isn´t falling ...

Pretty good night for me personally, a lot of teams and players doing good that i like.

- Bobcats beat the Hawks handily, Bell in his first game back from injury with 24 points on 9-12 shooting. Wallace with another huge rebounding night to counter his ongoing shooting woes. Now averages 14,8 rebounds through 5 games (12,15,9,20,18 the single game numbers) but is shooting 31% for his 14.8 PPG (no typo) . And he has 2 assists against 17 TOs . Has got to be a frustrating fantasy player right now ;)

- Magic beat the Pistons. Howard again with a good game from the FT line (8-9, was 7-8 the game before and 14-16 3 games back), now at 69% for the year . Redick was impressive the 2 games i saw the Magic, not just his shooting but he also has improved his ballhandling/penetration by leaps and bounds really.

-Phonix beats the Celtics

-Toronto beats the Hornets who imo will miss the Playoffs. Everybody but Paul, West and Okafor is well below average on their position/role ...

- Gallinari with a good game against the Cavs

- Lakers win handily, Bryant with 41 points on 19-30 shooting without a TO (well, only 1 assists as well, seems like he just got where he wanted with little help defense) . Mbenga 13 boards and 4 blocks !

- Blazers shake things up starting Blake and Miller with Roy moving to the 3. It is a freaking joke how Oden is refereed ... Seriously, if that´s the direction the NBA continues to go in regards of defensive minded big men than i´m not happy ... I mean, the guy is silently having a monster year outside of scoring with 9.5 boards and 2.5 blocks in 22 minutes a game. Przybilla has 8 boards in 17 minutes btw.

- Ginobili looks like shit out there right now :( Parker goes down with a sprained ankle and Spurs get beat by the Blazers.

- as far as the Clippers : Kaman is owning, 23/10 after 6 games :eek:

- Last but not least : Rockets beat the Thunder with yet another balanced scoring game. Ariza has 21/5/6 , Scola has 19/10, Landry 21/9, Budinger scores 16 and Brooks has 11.
Their offense is so nice to watch :)

[Lathum]

CDR has swine flu...

[whomario]

Suns beat the Wizards and are now 6-1 to start the year :) Nash is just awesome. Definitely the best passer in the league. Others may come close in terms of Assists numbers and of course you can point to the Suns pace and so forth, but in terms of seeing angles and being able to execute the sheer amount of different types of passes from every spot using either hand with equal accuracy is just incredible with him. If you´d cut a tape of just him passing, dribling and doing layups you couldn´t tell wether he´s right or left handed.

And another late-call here : Just finished watching the Rockets-Lakers from a few nigth ago and found again that the Kobe/Battier matchup is propably the highest quality offensive/defensive matchup in the league.
That game Bryant hit so many amazing shots and displayed such great footwork for so many great moves while Battier was on him like glue every single time getting as close as you possibly can get without fouling and he hardly ever gets caught out of position.
Really, really fun to watch those 2 go at it.

Bryan´t seems to go into the post alot more this year, doesn´t he ? Just read about him taking a lesson with Olajuwon (although what you learn in 2 hours is kinda limited really) over the summer and working on that facet a lot and the 2 games i´ve seen back that up as well as the numbers (only 13 threes in 6 games but a ton of FTs).

[Neon_Chaos]

The Lakers looked solid tonight. Mbenga and Brown stepped up big time.

Kobe is a beast. He almost always asked for the ball in the post, and it didn't matter who was guarding him. He would do all his work on positioning himself without the ball, and once the ball got to his hands he would unleash the killer turnaround with precision.
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[Groundhog]

Big Aussie Nathan Jawai had a good game against the Bucks yesterday. T'Wolves got blown out, but Jawai finished with career highs in points (16) and rebounds (6). Hopefully he's in shape, because the guy the Jawai that I saw playing for Toronto and Dallas was not the Shaq-esque Jawai I saw down here in Australia. When he was forced to miss all that time with the heart-scare he really got out of shape.

[Mr. Sparkle]

The Warriors were missing Biedrins and Turiaf, sure, but, boy, the Clips really put a hurtin' on them tonight, and in Oakland, to boot.

The entire team has already quit on the season. They can't stand Nelson/ownership. We already know Jackson wants out. Ellis does, too, but he won't go on record as saying so. Nelson has relegated Anthony Randolph to 3rd string center, playing Mikki Moore over him. Any significant minutes he's gotten have come via garbage time. There is no semblance of a consistent rotation. It's a complete and utter train wreck, even more so than I think just about anyone had anticipated. Nelson won't be fired, so nothing will change. The personnel might change, but nothing noticeable will happen until Nelson is gone in two years. It's sickening.

[Groundhog]

It's one thing to play small-ball, but you still need to play D. Warriors are built to just run and run, but if you're not getting stops, how can you run?

You can't reasonably expect them to play half-court offense though, can you? I mean seriously, who sets the screens? You've got two pint-sized guards and a swingman playing the 4 spot. Just an absolute trainwreck.

[Lathum]

I love watching Golden State play. Up by 25 and they are still jacking up threes with 21 seconds left on the shot clock.