2008 NFL Draft Thread-Jake Long Goes #1

[stevew]

Figured I'd clean things up a bit and start a separate thread for the draft.

LONG GETS $30 MILLION GUARANTEED
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 1:16 p.m.
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that tackle Jake Long will receive $30 million guaranteed as part of his five-year, $57 million deal with the Miami Dolphins.

Long will get $2 million less in guaranteed money and $4 million less in total money than Raiders quarterback JaMarcus Russell received a year ago, but Long is tied up for one less season.

And since different people interpret the term “guaranteed” differently, the only way to compare Long’s deal to Russell’s is to line ‘em up and parse the language.

For Parcells, it’s a win because he paid less money. For Long (and his agent), it’s a win because the deal covers one less season.

We’d still love to know whether Vernon Gholston had a meaningful chance to take less money than that

Terms of the contract look rediculous....11m a year for a Tackle? I know they didn't want to overpay the #1 guy, but that seems like stupid money. Thomas got 5/43 with 23m guaranteed, no way is Long that much better.

[Schmidty]

As much as I hate Michigan, I think Long is the best OL to come out in a long time. I think he'll be even better than Joe Thomas, and will likely make the Pro Bowl his rookie season. The guy is freaking beast.

[Kodos]

Takes a little suspense out of this Saturday. I think it was a good choice. Not sold on Ryan, and now Beck can show if he's got skills next season. If he doesn't, we'll likely be back at the top of the draft next season.

[stevew]

I think you'll be back at the top regardless.

[Kodos]

Probably. What a sad state this team is in right now.

[rkmsuf]

hope the dolphins get the card up there in time

[Bad-example]

I think you'll be back at the top regardless.

I think you underestimate the Raiders' ability to look good in preseason.

[stevew]

Hopefully the OL give QB Beck time to do his thing.

[rkmsuf]

Sun 11 16 Raider at Dolphin

what better game that weekend

[Kodos]

go dolphin

[Cringer]

Come on rookie salary cap, any year now.....

[DeToxRox]

called this a while ago. I am happy for Jake. An instance where coming back his senior year paid off.

[stevew]

I bet that it still takes the LOLphins almost 10 mins on the clock to announce this foregone conclusion. The Rams now have a golden opportunity to get something done before draft day. They would be wise to take advantage of the situation.

[Fighter of Foo]

Terms of the contract look rediculous....11m a year for a Tackle? I know they didn't want to overpay the #1 guy, but that seems like stupid money. Thomas got 5/43 with 23m guaranteed, no way is Long that much better.

NFL terms always look ridiculous. The amount guaranteed (read: signing/roster bonuses) and the salary for the first two years are the only numbers that matter. That's true for any NFL contract. I don't know why the imaginary numbers get reported.

[stevew]

Barring any kind of injury, or if he decides to go Mandarich, he'll see every dollar of this rookie deal. And it will set the baseline for his next contract. I don't think that the numbers are that imaginary anymore.

[Fighter of Foo]

Barring any kind of injury, or if he decides to go Mandarich, he'll see every dollar of this rookie deal. And it will set the baseline for his next contract. I don't think that the numbers are that imaginary anymore.

No, he won't. After the 3rd season or so it will be restructured into an extension or he'll get cut.

[Warhammer]

The problem is if you are the Rams who do you go after? I was hoping that the Fins were going to take anyone but Long. Hopefully, you can make some moves towards Ryan, scare one of the teams drafting behind you, drop a few spots, pick up Ellis and a couple of extra picks.

[MacroGuru]

I am excited by this pick, because Beck has been impressing Sparano (sp?) with his work ethic and attitude, and it brings someone to the OL that should start immediately improve the line.

I just hope that more is coming from them, so as a BYU homer, I can see Beck prosper...

[jeheinz72]

I like the pick and frankly, I think they were stuck overpaying no matter who they took, just because of the slot they were in.

[lighthousekeeper]

I like the pick and frankly, I think they were stuck overpaying no matter who they took, just because of the slot they were in.

They could have signed me for a lot less.

[gstelmack]

Come on rookie salary cap, any year now.....

There is a rookie salary cap. There just is not a reasonable slotting system...

[Passacaglia]

They could have signed me for a lot less.

Yeah, but they probably would have had to trade up a lot to get you. No way you were going to fall that far.

[Logan]

No, he won't. After the 3rd season or so it will be restructured into an extension or he'll get cut.

How so? As long as he performs well enough to warrant not being cut, he is not obligated to restructure the deal unless he wants to. He'll hold all the leverage over the Dolphins similar to Larry Fitz this offseason.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just read this on ESPN.com (as a blurb they wrote for the article) and almost spit the water out of my mouth, it makes no sense:

Jake Long is the best player at the deepest position in this year's draft so it's no wonder the Dolphins made him the No. 1 overall pick.

Now I'm not quibbling with him being #1 overall, but being the best player at the deepest position in the draft should dictate that you are NOT the #1 overall pick. It's a reason NOT to be the #1 overall pick, not a reason TO BE the #1 overall pick.

F*CKING MORONS they got over there

[Kodos]

Oh noes! There are only 6 more guys like this one! We'd better grab him instead of the one NFL-caliber QB on the board! (Just kidding about Ryan)

[stevew]

How so? As long as he performs well enough to warrant not being cut, he is not obligated to restructure the deal unless he wants to. He'll hold all the leverage over the Dolphins similar to Larry Fitz this offseason.

Or if he does re-do the deal, presumedly the next deal will incorporate the 25m he'd make in the last 2 years of his current deal. So, he gets put into a 4 year 60million dollar deal or something to that effect.

Ask Robert Gallery how much of his rookie deal he hasn't earned yet.

[Fighter of Foo]

How so? As long as he performs well enough to warrant not being cut, he is not obligated to restructure the deal unless he wants to. He'll hold all the leverage over the Dolphins similar to Larry Fitz this offseason.

No, Fitzgerald hit incentive bonuses that made MUCH more of his contract guaranteed. THAT and the fact the Arizona was incompetent enough to write such a contract and put themselves in that sort of bind gave Fitzgerald enormous leverage. Big difference.

As a player, your only leverage is how well you perform and the amount of money you're guaranteed. Signing bonuses are spread equally over the length of the contract, so that's 6MM/per. We haven't seen the details here, but let's assume the breakdown is something for the remaining 27 million is something like 1/3/5/7/11.

If you think the Fish or any other team is going to pay one player 17 million dollars for one season with a salary cap in place, you're an idiot. He'll either be cut and end up earning less or (much more likely if he's legit) he'll sign an extension, still earn less than 17MM that season, but more long-term.

Just as an example of NFL contract fun, a team can sign someone to a 3-year $100 million dollar deal with 3 million guaranteed. The structure for the signing bonus is 1/1/1. The rest of the 97 million is 1/1/95. This might get reported as player X signs $100 million dollar deal! In reality, it's 5 million for two years with the last million coming as a cut bonus. Now for salary restructures, you aren't allowed to take money off the table which is why there aren't any examples this extreme.

Regading Gallery, his 2008 salary is listed at 2.61 for this season and his signing bonus, IIRC was around 16-18 for 5. Either he had a front loaded contract or one with some unattainable bonuses in it.

[Izulde]

So we go with the safe pick. Not a bad decision at all, considering we need help everywhere and hopefully J. Long can be a studmuffin LT.

[Izulde]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stud+muffin

Yes I'm familiar with the common usage of it, kthx. :p

[Cringer]

There is a rookie salary cap. There just is not a reasonable slotting system...


I mean a real cap, one which basically says "Hey rookie, you haven't done crap to earn millions of dollars that should be going towards veterans who have proven themselves, so you get $500,000 a year at the most for 4 years."

That kind of rookie salary cap.

[Logan]

As Ronnie Dobbs said, you really didn't need to write all that out on how NFL contracts work. We all know.

If you think the Fish or any other team is going to pay one player 17 million dollars for one season with a salary cap in place, you're an idiot. He'll either be cut and end up earning less or (much more likely if he's legit) he'll sign an extension, still earn less than 17MM that season, but more long-term.

Call me an idiot then. Do your homework and take notice at how the NFL salary cap is escalating. Yes, 5 years from now there will probably be plenty of players with a cap figure of $17 million. But that actually doesn't matter. If he's legit and the Dolphins choose to cut him since they refuse to pay him the $11 million base, all he'll do is sign a new deal with someone else that will give him much more guaranteed than the $11 million. Like probably another $30 million. Again, show me where the Dolphins will have the leverage to force him to renegotiate his deal as you have stated.

[Noop]

Good choice. I hope we are able to parlay our way to Brian Brohm in the second round. He was a top 5 choice last season but this season he is a second rounder... weird.

[Big Fo]

So how does Jake Long compare to what people thought of Joe Thomas/D'Brickashaw Ferguson/other highly-rated tackles in recent years before the draft?

[SFL Cat]

Don't know that I'd ever take an offensive lineman as the first pick. I've heard some people say Long would be better at RT because he tends to have some trouble with speed rushers (i.e., everyone in the NFL). Plus there have been a lot of top O linemen selected in the top-10 during the past five that haven't really panned out. Most have become solid starters, but not the awesome studs people were predicting.

If I had a say, I think I would've gone for Howie's kid. The Dolphins have done okay with a top notch defense and a mediocre offense for years. When the D finally collapsed during the past couple of years, especially in the secondary, that's when the Fins' record bottomed out.

[miami_fan]

I don't immediately hate this pick. Definite improvement from last year.

[st.cronin]

Don't know that I'd ever take an offensive lineman as the first pick. I've heard some people say Long would be better at RT because he tends to have some trouble with speed rushers (i.e., everyone in the NFL). Plus there have been a lot of top O linemen selected in the top-10 during the past five that haven't really panned out. Most have become solid starters, but not the awesome studs people were predicting.

If I had a say, I think I would've gone for Howie's kid. The Dolphins have done okay with a top notch defense and a mediocre offense for years. When the D finally collapsed during the past couple of years, especially in the secondary, that's when the Fins' record bottomed out.

I tend to agree with this, but I think Long is an OK pick. There are no questions about his character, durability or work ethic, so he should be a fine player. He may not be Joe Thomas, but he's also not going to be Robert Gallery.

[Groundhog]

I mean a real cap, one which basically says "Hey rookie, you haven't done crap to earn millions of dollars that should be going towards veterans who have proven themselves, so you get $500,000 a year at the most for 4 years."

That kind of rookie salary cap.

Isn't the average NFL career something like 3 seasons? Given that there aren't a lot of other pro sporting opportunity for professional footballers outside of the NFL (Canadian league, Arena?), I don't mind them getting crazy contracts so much.

[stevew]

The Vikings, according to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, surrendered their first-round pick in the 2008 draft and both third-round selections for Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen.

The Chiefs will now add the No. 17, No. 73, and No. 82 overall selections to the No. 5, No. 35, and No. 66 picks, giving them six selections among the first 100 picks.

The Chiefs just got a jumpstart to their rebuilding process by dealing Allen. Obviously he will be hard to replace, as he's one of the best at his position. But with 3 picks in the top 35, they can definitely address some areas of need.

[st.cronin]

I guess the Chiefs think Gholston will be available at #5.

[stevew]

I'm just stoked it gives Herm Edwards another chance to ruin some more careers.

[Cringer]

Crap, I guess now we know who will injure Aaron Rodgers this season. :(

I wouldn't care much if it wasn't an NFC North team.

[stevew]

if you have some time, the "official" Emmit Smith mock draft is pretty damned funny.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2008emmitt.php

[Schmidty]

It was funny, but I couldn't get through the whole thing because it be repetitive, so to speak.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I guess the Chiefs think Gholston will be available at #5.

Chris Long is also mentioned in today's KC Star as a possibility.......

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/587889.html

Having six picks in the first three rounds almost certainly will change the Chiefs’ draft strategy. With only one first-round pick, the Chiefs were almost locked into drafting an offensive lineman to fill one of their voids in the starting lineup.

They now have the flexibility to do many things. They could opt to draft Allen’s replacement, possibly Virginia’s Chris Long or Ohio State’s Vernon Gholston, with the fifth pick. Then they could then get an offensive lineman by bundling picks to move up from the 17th spot or they could select one using the 17th pick.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Crap, I guess now we know who will injure Aaron Rodgers this season. :(

I wouldn't care much if it wasn't an NFC North team.

Best suggestion..........open a large bar within driving distance of his home.

[21C]

I was initially disappointed when the draft got moved to 3pm. The previous start time of noon EST was 2am for me. I could easily stay up for the first few picks of the 1st round and keep up to date with audio feeds and web sites.

The 3pm start meant it would be 5am here and I couldn't do that at all. I'm a night owl but even that was too late for me. I resigned myself to catching up with the picks the next day on the net.

Well I just found out that the Australian version of ESPN is carrying the draft live. In previous years, they had an edited version a couple of days later which was no good since I knew all of the picks by then and I wasn't going to avoid any draft news for that long. I still won't be watching it live but it will be as good as live when I record it and watch when I get up.

Happy days!

[Oilers9911]

From a pure entertainment standpoint, should the NFL do something to stop the practice of announcing the signing of the 1st overall pick days before the draft? I know it won't affect the viewership or anything but it just isn't as much fun without the suspense of the first pick. Sure, let them sign him but just keep it under wraps.

[SteveMax58]

I'm trying to figure out why I have just heard that Chris Long is Howie Long's son for the first time this morning.

I mean the rock I've been hiding under has quite a bit of open space for news like that...hmm. I feel uninformed and out of touch now.

[sabotai]

Just about a done deal that Jeremy Shockey will be traded to the Saints. They've offered a 2nd round pick, but the Giants want more. The Giants asked for S Roman Harper as well as the 2nd pick, but the Saints rejected it. The Saints might offer the G-Men their 2nd and 5th round picks for Shockey.

[bhlloy]

Shockey coming off surgery isn't even worth a second. Saints must be crazy to do the second and the fifth. They could have any TE they wanted in the draft with their second round pick, and that TE wouldn't have a shitty attitude and be getting close the the downside of his career...

[TazFTW]

Cowboys trade Anthony Fasano and Akin Ayodele to the Dolphins for their 4th round pick.


Well I guess this will give Bobby Carpenter a chance to prove he's not a bust.

[Dunleavy]

tv types are saying Dorsey could fall outside of the top 3 with a chris long matt ryan combo going ahead of him. i'm not so sure about that

[JeeberD]

Cowboys trade Anthony Fasano and Akin Ayodele to the Dolphins for their 4th round pick.


Well I guess this will give Bobby Carpenter a chance to prove he's not a bust.

Seems like an odd trade. I would have thought that Fasano alone would be worth more than a fourth rounder...

[st.cronin]

tv types are saying Dorsey could fall outside of the top 3 with a chris long matt ryan combo going ahead of him. i'm not so sure about that

Hm, I think if St. Louis takes Chris Long, Atlanta takes Dorsey. Matt Ryan is the one who could fall - I am not sure Baltimore will want him, so he could fall to Carolina or Chicago.

[KWhit]

Hm, I think if St. Louis takes Chris Long, Atlanta takes Dorsey.

Definitely.

[Sublime 2]

Hm, I think if St. Louis takes Chris Long, Atlanta takes Dorsey. Matt Ryan is the one who could fall - I am not sure Baltimore will want him, so he could fall to Carolina or Chicago.

You think anyone would try to trade up for him once he got to the 7-8 range? I'm sure NE would love to drop back, and if he fell to them they'd be thrilled fielding offers.

[st.cronin]

You think anyone would try to trade up for him once he got to the 7-8 range? I'm sure NE would love to drop back, and if he fell to them they'd be thrilled fielding offers.

I think teams will be trading up for defensive linemen (Sedrick Ellis, Derrick Harvey), not quarterbacks. The teams that need a quarterback tend to be teams that have lots of needs, so I don't know if it would make a lot of sense to give up picks.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure Ryan won't get past Baltimore, if he does end up sliding. I think they may even move up for him (via KC).

[miami_fan]

The more I hear the reasons why Atlanta should take Matt Ryan, the more it reminds me of the reasons the Texans had to take David Carr.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm pretty sure Ryan won't get past Baltimore, if he does end up sliding. I think they may even move up for him (via KC).

There's a lot of talk in KC that the Chiefs will trade away the 5th pick. Both Baltimore and the Saints in addition to a couple of other teams want to move up.

[Swaggs]

KC is in a good position to trade down. Either McFadden or Ryan are probably going to be available (maybe both). Throw one of those two in with Ellis, and they are in great shape to trade down and pick up an additional early pick.

[Logan]

Agreed. Especially if they like Albert as much as they have let on...they can probably trade down into that 8-10 range and get him there.

Although it probably would've made more sense for the Chiefs not to have let on this whole time that they preferred Albert, who while many feel could end up being the best LT in the draft, he wasn't expected to go until 11-15.

[SteveMax58]

Just about a done deal that Jeremy Shockey will be traded to the Saints. They've offered a 2nd round pick, but the Giants want more. The Giants asked for S Roman Harper as well as the 2nd pick, but the Saints rejected it. The Saints might offer the G-Men their 2nd and 5th round picks for Shockey.


Got a link to somewhere on this? I havent heard anything this morning about it.

[General Mike]

PFW's final mockdraft:

hxxp://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2008/mock042608.htm

[st.cronin]

I am still very perplexed about what, exactly, Matt Ryan did as a senior to pass Brian Brohm. Brohm actually had a better senior year than Ryan.

[sabotai]

Got a link to somewhere on this? I havent heard anything this morning about it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/

Latest entry says the Giants are playing hardball and insisting on safey Roman Harper while the Saints have added with a 6th this year or a 5th next year.

[Ryche]

My final mock draft:

1. Miami - Jake Long
2. St. Louis - Chris Long
3. Atlanta - Matt Ryan
4. Oakland - Vernon Gholston
5. Kansas City - Glenn Dorsey (New Orleans trade up to here)
6. New York Jets - Darren McFadden
7. New England - Branden Albert
8. Baltimore - D. Rodgers-Cromartie
9. Cincinnati - Sedric Ellis
10. New Orleans - Derrick Harvey (Kansas City trade down to here)
11. Buffalo - Ryan Clady (Kansas City trade up to here)
12. Denver - Chris Williams
13. Carolina - Rashard Mendenhall
14. Chicago - Jeff Otah
15. Detroit - Jerod Mayo
16. Arizona - Leodis McKelvin
17. Kansas City - Devin Thomas (Buffalo trade down to here)
18. Houston - Mike Jenkins
19. Philadelphia - Gosder Cherilus
20. Tampa - Keith Rivers
21. Washington - Philip Merling
22. Dallas - DeSean Jackson
23. Pittsburgh - James Hardy
24. Tennessee - Limas Sweed
25. Seattle - Jonathan Stewart
26. Jacksonville - Joe Flacco (Miami trade up)
27. San Diego - Kentwan Balmer
28. Dallas - Felix Jones
29. San Francisco - Brian Brohm (Baltimore trade up)
30. Green Bay - Dustin Keller
31. New York Giants - Kenny Phillip

Already botched the Solecismic mock draft as I had Dorsey going 2nd, but it sounds like they are set on Long. Mistake in my opinion since they have Dorsey rated higher, but oh well.

Draft as a whole isn't as much fun when my two favorite teams (Minnesota and Denver) only have 3 picks in the top 3 rounds.

[miami_fan]

I am still very perplexed about what, exactly, Matt Ryan did as a senior to pass Brian Brohm. Brohm actually had a better senior year than Ryan.

Just went back and looked at the thread from the week BC played Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. Here is just one post from right after that game.

I think Matt Ryan could be the top quarterback in the draft.

Not to say that Ryan won't be a good QB in the NFL, but I am not sure he is the top QB in that draft if not for that game.

[st.cronin]

Just went back and looked at the thread from the week BC played Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. Here is just one post from right after that game.



Not to say that Ryan won't be a good QB in the NFL, but I am not sure he is the top QB in that draft if not for that game.

On the other hand, the score of that game was 14-10.

[Noop]

Well the draft party is underway and we have our draft boards out. I just googled it and I am not sure if today is two rounds or three... anyone know for sure?

[JetsIn06]

Well the draft party is underway and we have our draft boards out. I just googled it and I am not sure if today is two rounds or three... anyone know for sure?

Two.

[Eaglesfan27]

No, he won't. After the 3rd season or so it will be restructured into an extension or he'll get cut.

I missed this thread until today. No way that any team cuts the #1 overall pick unless they are a bust. Assuming he isn't a bust, he'll see every cent of this deal, if he wants to. He has all of the power on whether or not to renegotiate if he performs well.

[st.cronin]

My final mock:

1. Miami - Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2. St. Louis - Chris Long, DE, Virginia
3. Atlanta - Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
4. Oakland - Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State
5. Kansas City - Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
6. NY Jets - Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
7. New England - Branden Albert, G, Virginia
8. Baltimore - Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy State
9. Cincinnati - Keith Rivers, LB, USC
10. New Orleans - Ryan Clady, T, Boise State
11. Buffalo - Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
12. Denver - Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
13. Carolina - Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
14. Chicago - Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State
15. Detroit - Jerod Mayo, LB, Tennessee
16. Arizona - Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois
17. Kansas City - Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
18. Houston - Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
19. Philadelphia - Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
20. Tampa Bay - Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
21. Washington - Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson
22. Dallas - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State
23. Pittsburgh - Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
24. Tennessee - James Hardy, WR, Indiana
25. Seattle - Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas
26. Jacksonville - Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina
27. San Diego - Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami
28. Dallas - DeSean Jackson, WR, California
29. San Francisco - Sam Baker, OT, USC
30. Green Bay - Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas
31. NY Giants - Dan Connor, LB, Penn State

[SteveMax58]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/

Latest entry says the Giants are playing hardball and insisting on safey Roman Harper while the Saints have added with a 6th this year or a 5th next year.

Thanks.

Wow...sounds great to me, though I think the Saints would be stupid to include Harper. Solid looking young player.

[Coffee Warlord]

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Matt Ryan.

[Dunleavy]

we already know who the first 4 picks will be?

Long, Long, Ryan, McFadden

[Dunleavy]

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Matt Ryan.

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Mendenhall

[Noop]

I am seriously hoping that the Dolphins get Brohm.

[st.cronin]

I'm rooting for the Dolphins to draft Chad Henne.

[DeToxRox]

This 3 PM start is retarded. There are 4 picks pretty much confirmed now. Good job Goodell.

[DeToxRox]

Here's a rumor ..

Detroit will trade Roy Williams to Dallas for #28 to draft Chad Henne if he's there, which I doubt he is, but this is typical Lions.

[Cringer]

This 3 PM start is retarded. There are 4 picks pretty much confirmed now. Good job Goodell.

Yeah, the shorter pick times are cool, but the later start blows. I went to bed at 5 a.m., woke up at 6 to get a hand job, went back to sleep and woke up at 11:30 thinking the draft was starting soon. I could have slept more. :mad:

[Cuckoo]

Seems like an odd trade. I would have thought that Fasano alone would be worth more than a fourth rounder...

My thoughts as well. I saw this last night and thought I must have misread it. Fasano's going to be a very good tight end; he just hasn't yet had a chance to show it because of Witten's presence. Ayodele, while nothing close to a star, is a decent starting-quality LB.

[st.cronin]

Here's a rumor ..

Detroit will trade Roy Williams to Dallas for #28 to draft Chad Henne if he's there, which I doubt he is, but this is typical Lions.

Didn't they just draft an overrated Big 10 QB last year?

[Buccaneer]

My wife, son and I just did our mock drafts (picking where the top 8 players will go). We can't decide on Atlanta: Ryan or Dorsey. If they pick Ryan, I predicted NO will trade up to get Dorsey. They've been watching NFL Network all morning and I'm sure they will keep me informed.

[Coffee Warlord]

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Mendenhall

It's much more likely he'll be there for them to take.

Except Angelo is too damn stubborn to admit his boy Benson blows goats.

[miami_fan]

So how much does Matt Ryan increase season tickets sales this season?

[Dunleavy]

i have to agree, the 3pm start is looking even more idiotic

i was in favor of doing to the top 5 or 10 picks friday night, then starting sat morning and going threw round 3, with day 2 picking up at round 4

they way they have it now it starts too late, and having to do 5 rounds on day 2 could be a bear

[Eaglesfan27]

The rumor is that Jerry Jones made that trade because he wanted another draft pick as trade fodder to move up for McFadden. I'm going to laugh when he doesn't get McFadden. I think the Cowboys are going down without Bill there to restrain Jerry's impulses.

[Dunleavy]

It's much more likely he'll be there for them to take.

Except Angelo is too damn stubborn to admit his boy Benson blows goats.

very true, i'm hoping against hope all hope that all the OL get drafted before the bears (especially chris williams) and then "some how i kept my job" turner goes to war for mendenhall (he did recruit him to UI)

[JonInMiddleGA]

So how much does Matt Ryan increase season tickets sales this season?

If that's the pick, not a bit. Who wants to pay that kind of cash to watch the next big QB bust?

If the Falcons don't trade down, this group of idiots running the show is no better than the previous group of idiots.

edit to add: And I'm not sure which pick would be worse at #3 - Ryan to bust or Dorsey to spend half his first contract injured. He's been dinged up since his senior season in high school for crying out loud.

[Cringer]

If that's the pick, not a bit. Who wants to pay that kind of cash to watch the next big QB bust?

If the Falcons don't trade down, this group of idiots running the show is no better than the previous group of idiots.

edit to add: And I'm not sure which pick would be worse at #3 - Ryan to bust or Dorsey to spend half his first contract injured. He's been dinged up since his senior season in high school for crying out loud.

It takes two to make a trade happen, and how many teams are willing to give up enough for the #3 pick AND pay extra money? I would say very few teams, if any. Trading down just isn't very easy any more when the top salaries are so much $$ now.

[Buccaneer]

But then again, if Baltimore moves up to #2, then it becomes moot.

[JAG]

Dallas - DeSean Jackson, WR, California

Not going to happen. Dallas isn't drafting a WR in the first round.

[Buccaneer]

i have to agree, the 3pm start is looking even more idiotic

i was in favor of doing to the top 5 or 10 picks friday night, then starting sat morning and going threw round 3, with day 2 picking up at round 4

they way they have it now it starts too late, and having to do 5 rounds on day 2 could be a bear

What are you talking about? A 1:00pm start time is perferct. :)

[Izulde]

I am seriously hoping that the Dolphins get Brohm.

Same here.

I've got my Dolphins gear on and I'm ready to rock the joint. Heading over to a bro's house in about 15 min.

[SteveMax58]

Yeah...this 3pm crap is annoying me.

And what are they thinking that Rd3 is going to do by moving it to Sunday? Entice people who otherwise dont care about the later rounds? It would seem more likely to make them not care about round 3 than to watch round 3 on Sunday, and then stick around for round 4.

If anything...it seems to me they should be trying to move the 4th rd up to Saturday to entice those doing draft parties to continue watching(thus generating better ratings for a longer time period).

Maybe next year they can try moving the first round to Sunday night at 8pm.

[Izulde]

Having a 3 pm start time essentially negates the advantages of cutting the 1st round per pick time from 15 min to 10 min.

[st.cronin]

Atlanta already has a ton of draft picks (I think 3 in round 2), so I'm not sure what trading down will really accomplish for thim. I agree with JimGa that both Dorsey and Ryan are risky picks, but ... who else would you argue for at 3? Sedrick Ellis has the same injury worries as Dorsey but isn't as good, Darren McFadden makes no sense for them, Vernon Gholston... maybe. Branden Albert? Keith Rivers?

I guess if it were me I'd take Dorsey, and cross my fingers. But its really not a great spot to be in.

[Chief Rum]

My final mock:

1. Miami - Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2. St. Louis - Chris Long, DE, Virginia
3. Atlanta - Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
4. Oakland - Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State
5. Kansas City - Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
6. NY Jets - Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
7. New England - Branden Albert, G, Virginia
8. Baltimore - Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy State
9. Cincinnati - Keith Rivers, LB, USC
10. New Orleans - Ryan Clady, T, Boise State
11. Buffalo - Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
12. Denver - Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
13. Carolina - Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
14. Chicago - Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State
15. Detroit - Jerod Mayo, LB, Tennessee
16. Arizona - Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois
17. Kansas City - Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
18. Houston - Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
19. Philadelphia - Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
20. Tampa Bay - Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
21. Washington - Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson
22. Dallas - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State
23. Pittsburgh - Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
24. Tennessee - James Hardy, WR, Indiana
25. Seattle - Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas
26. Jacksonville - Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina
27. San Diego - Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami
28. Dallas - DeSean Jackson, WR, California
29. San Francisco - Sam Baker, OT, USC
30. Green Bay - Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas
31. NY Giants - Dan Connor, LB, Penn State

Finally someone who has Ryan dropping like the rock he should. This guy has Brady Quinn all over again written all over him. He seems like a player with talent, but Top Five? If a team takes him there over several of these other players who are clearly better, then they are overreaching and guaranteeing themselves a poor draft.

[DaddyTorgo]

heh...i hope matt ryan makes all you doubters eat your words!

[Solecismic]

I have opened room #fofdraft on dalnet (irc.dal.net) for draft discussion, if people are interested.

[watravaler]

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Mendenhall

I like Mendenhall as much as Mayock, and don't believe there is a significant difference between him and McFadden, but what good is a stallion back behind a horrible line?

[Arles]

Packers will do one of four things at 30:

1. Trade down (30% chance)
2. Take CB Talib or Flowers (30% chance)
3. Take QB Brohm (20% chance)
4. Take OL Sam Baker (20% chance)

To be honest, I'd be fine with any of these. I really like Cason, so I wouldn't mind them trading down 4-5 spots and still landing him. I also like Reggie Smith, who should be there when their cleveland pick comes up. For the first time in a while, we don't *NEED* a starter at any spot, so Ted should go BPA or trade down.

[Noop]

Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB but he is not in my opinion a top-10 QB however Brian Brohm I think is going to be a better pro because his accuracy is the best of the QB's in this class as well as next years.

[SteveMax58]

I like Mendenhall as much as Mayock, and don't believe there is a significant difference between him and McFadden, but what good is a stallion back behind a horrible line?

+1 on the Mendenhall point.

I actually have him going to the Jets, as I see them going for the BPA-skill position-wise and expected Atlanta or KC to reach on Ryan, and Oakland to draft McFadden.

[Chief Rum]

heh...i hope matt ryan makes all you doubters eat your words!

It's not really about him. Ryan is as good as he is. He seems like a middling talent to me, not a star. I mean, 32 INTs in the last two years? That's the best QB in this draft? Whispers of Rex Grossman and Kyle Boller echo in my ears--and they had better final seasons.

Ryan probably won't be that bad, but a Top Five QB should be a McNabb, Manning, Palmer, etc. He is definitely none of those guys, IMO.

No, the draft always way, way, way overhypes QBs because it is the glamour position, and I think teams buy into it to an extent (even have to--because the fans treat it as legit cuz all they know is the hype, so if a team passes up a strongly hyped QB without a proven player at the spot, they get dinged PR-wise).

[DaddyTorgo]

It's not really about him. Ryan is as good as he is. He seems like a middling talent to me, not a star. I mean, 32 INTs in the last two years? That's the best QB in this draft? Whispers of Rex Grossman and Kyle Boller echo in my ears--and they had better final seasons.

Ryan probably won't be that bad, but a Top Five QB should be a McNabb, Manning, Palmer, etc. He is definitely none of those guys, IMO.

No, the draft always way, way, way overhypes QBs because it is the glamour position, and I think teams buy into it to an extent (even have to--because the fans treat it as legit cuz all they know is the hype, so if a team passes up a strongly hyped QB without a proven player at the spot, they get dinged PR-wise).

as Jaws just pointed out - he was playing with small, lesser-talented receivers, so he had to take some chances, and many of the INT's were not his fault

[Chief Rum]

Packers will do one of four things at 30:

1. Trade down (30% chance)
2. Take CB Talib or Flowers (30% chance)
3. Take QB Brohm (20% chance)
4. Take OL Sam Baker (20% chance)

To be honest, I'd be fine with any of these. I really like Cason, so I wouldn't mind them trading down 4-5 spots and still landing him. I also like Reggie Smith, who should be there when their cleveland pick comes up. For the first time in a while, we don't *NEED* a starter at any spot, so Ted should go BPA or trade down.

My prediction. Brohm and Baker won't be there. I can see the CB route, but I bet at least one of those corners won't be there either. Trading down depends on a partner. Fortunately, it is easier and more common for a trade down at the end of the first than at the start. So I could see that.

My guess is the Packers will do none of these things.

[Buccaneer]

But those teams projecting to take Ryan will likely see an upgrade at that position?

[Chief Rum]

as Jaws just pointed out - he was playing with small, lesser-talented receivers, so he had to take some chances, and many of the INT's were not his fault

Part of being a QB is assessing the chances for things to go wrong, including what your WRs are likely to do. And if he goes Top Three or Five, you think he will be playing with great receivers?

Best thing for Ryan would be to drafted lower down and sat to tutor for a year or two behind a solid veteran. That won't happen, but that's what would be best for him. I have more confidence in Brohm making a positive impact in his first year than Ryan.

[Chief Rum]

But those teams projecting to take Ryan will likely see an upgrade at that position?

Can you expand on this so I know what teams you are talking about and what point you're trying to make? I'm not sure I understand. :)

[st.cronin]

I think the Packers will either take a lineman, or Dustin Keller. If Brohm is there the temptation will probably be to trade down rather than draft him.

[Arles]

My prediction. Brohm and Baker won't be there. I can see the CB route, but I bet at least one of those corners won't be there either. Trading down depends on a partner. Fortunately, it is easier and more common for a trade down at the end of the first than at the start. So I could see that.
I think a team would be willing to trade to 30 to get Henne, IMO. If Brohm, Baker and one of those corners are gone, that means someone like Mayo, Sweed or Cherilus is probably there. Those guys would also make a fairly decent upgrade over the round 2 players at their spots. Still, I think there will be a lot of interest from either Baltimore, the Jets or Atlanta (whomever doesn't land Ryan) to move up and nab Henne (or Brohm) at 30.

My guess is the Packers will do none of these things.
Chance for being correct? Probably 100% ;)

[st.cronin]

Matt Ryan played for a good team, one of his lineman is likely to be a first round pick. That's just nonsense. He's an ok prospect, but not really any different from guys like Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Its actually pretty hard to tell why he's scouted higher than John David Booty, never mind Brian Brohm.

[Arles]

I think the Packers will either take a lineman, or Dustin Keller. If Brohm is there the temptation will probably be to trade down rather than draft him.
Keller would be too much of a reach (plus I think they like the Carlson kid from ND more - and he should be at their Cleveland pick). I could see OL, but I think there will be a good offer to trade down. IMO, Henne or Brohm (or both) will be there and the Ryan loser will offer a decent deal to move up.

[Chief Rum]

Matt Ryan played for a good team, one of his lineman is likely to be a first round pick. That's just nonsense. He's an ok prospect, but not really any different from guys like Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Its actually pretty hard to tell why he's scouted higher than John David Booty, never mind Brian Brohm.

Well, Booty scored a 15 on his Wonderlic or something. ;)

Plus, have you heard him talk? Seriously, though, you're right, I am not sure Ryan is much better than Booty. He probably is...probably.

[st.cronin]

Booty's from Louisiana, right? So he doesn't even speak English.

[VPI97]

Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB but he is not in my opinion a top-10 QB however Brian Brohm I think is going to be a better pro because his accuracy is the best of the QB's in this class as well as next years.
I don't even think he's a first round QB...in two games against VT last season (the best defense he saw...and not even close to being as good as your typical NFL defense), he combined to go 58/104 for 590 yards, 2 TD and 4 INT. The only thing that stood out about those two games was the last minute drive during the first meeting and that was as much about busted coverage as it was about Ryan.

If the Falcons take Ryan at #3, that'll solidify my idea that the old idiots running the show were just replaced by newer idiots.

[Noop]

I don't even think he's a first round QB...in two games against VT last season (the best defense he saw...and not even close to being as good as your typical NFL defense), he combined to go 58/104 for 590 yards, 2 TD and 4 INT. The only thing that stood out about those two games was the last minute drive during the first meeting and that was as much about busted coverage as it was about Ryan.

If the Falcons take Ryan at #3, that'll solidify my idea that the old idiots running the show were just replaced by newer idiots.

26/53 415 2tds 3Ints

Thats his stats against Florida State. I agree I really don't think he is that good but he is certainly a 1st round QB based on need and not talent. I am very high on Brohm and hope that the Dolphins are able to get him.

[Raiders Army]

In the words of Rich Eisen: "Let's get this puppy started!"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Atlanta already has a ton of draft picks (I think 3 in round 2), so I'm not sure what trading down will really accomplish for thim. I agree with JimGa that both Dorsey and Ryan are risky picks, but ... who else would you argue for at 3?

What it would accomplish is avoiding overpaying for someone who isn't going to deliver what a #3 overall costs.

And I'm not sure there's anybody I'd argue for at #3 (with Long & Long gone) ... so why the hell get stuck with the pricetag?

[Noop]

They are booing the Phin's oh yes it is on versus the Jets this season.

[Raiders Army]

Jets fans: very classy booing the first pick overall. :)

[Ironhead]

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

[MJ4H]

Falcons fans amuse me.

[Noop]

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

Then its likely going to be a bloodbath.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

It'd be a waste of energy to kill Ryan ... he'll either die playing behind the woeful line or be ready to kill himself when he realizes what he's facing.

edit: Yeah, I know, it ain't Ryan they're wanting to kill but still ...

[bhlloy]

And I'm not sure there's anybody I'd argue for at #3 (with Long & Long gone) ... so why the hell get stuck with the pricetag?

The problem is, I'm not sure anybody else in the league disagrees with you. Hard to trade down when nobody else is really wanting to trade up.

[Swaggs]

I think Dorsey, McFadden, and Brohm are all going to be great NFL players.

It amusing how teams manage to find flaws in guys that have been around and have proven themselves for awhile, but fall in love with one-year and workout wonders.

BTW, if Dorsey (who I think is the best player in the draft) falls to the Pats, I'm shooing myself.

[Surtt]

I think a team would be willing to trade to 30 to get Henne, IMO. If Brohm, Baker and one of those corners are gone, that means someone like Mayo, Sweed or Cherilus is probably there. Those guys would also make a fairly decent upgrade over the round 2 players at their spots. Still, I think there will be a lot of interest from either Baltimore, the Jets or Atlanta (whomever doesn't land Ryan) to move up and nab Henne (or Brohm) at 30.



I am not sure why Green Bay is looking at QBs other then they have given up on Aron Rodgers. I can not think of another team that has spent a 1st rounder (and the money involved) on a QB they did not expect to play. Rodgers is going to have enough pressure on him following Farve without having another 1st round QB looking over his shoulder.

[st.cronin]

JimGa, picture this: You're the Chiefs, and Atlanta offers you the #3 for the #5, straight up. Do you take that deal? I say no. That pretty much sums up Atlanta's problem.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The problem is, I'm not sure anybody else in the league disagrees with you. Hard to trade down when nobody else is really wanting to trade up.

I'm just hard pressed to believe that there isn't some GM out there stupid enough to do something.

[st.cronin]

I think Dorsey, McFadden, and Brohm are all going to be great NFL players.

It amusing how teams manage to find flaws in guys that have been around and have proven themselves for awhile, but fall in love with one-year and workout wonders.

BTW, if Dorsey (who I think is the best player in the draft) falls to the Pats, I'm shooing myself.

McFadden, in particular - dude finished 2nd in the Heisman TWICE, playing for only a so-so team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

JimGa, picture this: You're the Chiefs, and Atlanta offers you the #3 for the #5, straight up. Do you take that deal? I say no. That pretty much sums up Atlanta's problem.

If that's truly where we're at -- that all the GM's in the league are smart enough not to do it -- then honest to God I'd say you do what you have to: start adding picks to the swap.

Hell, this is the Falcons we're talking about. They've got as good a chance finding a worthwhile undrafted FA as they do in getting something in the draft.

[JonInMiddleGA]

McFadden, in particular - dude finished 2nd in the Heisman TWICE, playing for only a so-so team.

Who really wants to draft the next character-challenged guy though?
I'd say he's easily the most athletically talented guy in the draft, by a pretty wide margin even.
But he's also shown signs of being a problem looking for a place to happen.

[Raiders Army]

Boo! He should've gone to the Raiders!

[Swaggs]

I am not sure why Green Bay is looking at QBs other then they have given up on Aron Rodgers. I can not think of another team that has spent a 1st rounder (and the money involved) on a QB they did not expect to play. Rodgers is going to have enough pressure on him following Farve without having another 1st round QB looking over his shoulder.

Agreed.

Other than maybe Brohm, I don't think any of those guys in the late 1st/early 2nd range is worth building around over Rodgers. Give Rodgers a shot, for at least a year, and draft another talented first rounder before finding a new QB of the future.

[Dunleavy]

Boo! He should've gone to the Raiders!

i guess but the raiders wouldn't have taken him

[MJ4H]

McFadden has no character problems. He has "off-field" problems in that his mother was a crack-addict and he has a large family with brothers that get in fights (that he tries to stop).

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

The off-field stuff is overblown. McFadden will be fine.

[st.cronin]

Rachel Nichols looks so tasty.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

Horseshit.

Two nightclub fights & three pending paternity suits, I don't give a damn if he's got relatives involved in all five incidents, HIS fucking character is dubious at best.

[Raiders Army]

Trade the pick Al.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Matt Ryan, 3rd overall ... and he'll have a less productive NFL career than Joey Harrington.

Write it down.

[Raiders Army]

i guess but the raiders wouldn't have taken him

Tru dat. I hope Al doesn't take McFadden.

[MJ4H]

Horseshit right back at you. The club fights were trying to stop his brothers and he never ran from the paternity stuff (which is going to have zero effect on football).

edit: being paralyzed by fear over non-issues on one of the best RBs to ever come through the draft (a paraphrase from several experts quite recently) is how teams wind up drafting busts instead of future stars.

[Noop]

Horseshit.

Two nightclub fights & three pending paternity suits, I don't give a damn if he's got relatives involved in all five incidents, HIS fucking character is dubious at best.

He likes to have sex I don't think that is a character flaw.

[Swaggs]

McFadden has no character problems. He has "off-field" problems in that his mother was a crack-addict and he has a large family with brothers that get in fights (that he tries to stop).

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

The off-field stuff is overblown. McFadden will be fine.

I think so, too. He can immediately become productive and be the face of one of these down-trodden franchises.

That said, I think it will be better for him to go to a team that is not in the Southeast, so that he is more than a car ride away from his buddies.

[st.cronin]

MJ4H, I think I found somebody who says its DMC's character that's the problem. This guy in Georgia, the middle part.

[DaddyTorgo]

Matty !!

[VPI97]

Horrible, horrible pick


Par for the course for the Falcons, though.

[DaddyTorgo]

Matt Ryan, 3rd overall ... and he'll have a less productive NFL career than Joey Harrington.

Write it down.

Wager on it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Horseshit right back at you. The club fights were trying to stop his brothers and he never ran from the paternity stuff (which is going to have zero effect on football).

What a shock, you're going to excuse his ethical lapses :rolleyes:

I'll take his number of suspensions, you take his number of pro bowls, we'll see which one ends up with the bigger number.

[MJ4H]

I think so, too. He can immediately become productive and be the face of one of these down-trodden franchises.

That said, I think it will be better for him to go to a team that is not in the Southeast, so that he is more than a car ride away from his buddies.

I don't disagree. The problem with McFadden has always been in his company. If you think I'm the only saying this, by the way, then you A) don't know the stories very well, B) haven't been paying attention to the experts even this morning who have said as much.

I'm sure those paternity suits are not going to be much of a factor.

[MJ4H]

What a shock, you're going to excuse his ethical lapses :rolleyes:

I'll take his number of suspensions, you take his number of pro bowls, we'll see which one ends up with the bigger number.

What a shock, you're going to trot the old "of course you'd defend him" line because you have no leg to stand on. His "ethical" lapses are nothing of the sort and will have no effect on his football career. Again, this how teams miss out on big talents in these drafts.

edit: and I'd take that bet on the pro bowls/suspensions in a heartbeat.

[Eaglesfan27]

Horseshit right back at you. The club fights were trying to stop his brothers and he never ran from the paternity stuff (which is going to have zero effect on football).

edit: being paralyzed by fear over non-issues on one of the best RBs to ever come through the draft (a paraphrase from several experts quite recently) is how teams wind up drafting busts instead of future stars.

I agree with the character issues being non-issues, but I haven't heard any experts call him the best RB to ever come through the draft. He certainly is the best this year. Have any links to where they call him the best to ever come through the draft?

edit: or even one of the best RB's to ever come through the draft.

[Swaggs]

By the way, am I the only one that gets motivated to play about 10 seasons of FOF every draft weekend? :)

[Thomkal]

See Cronin, didn't I tell you all along in your mock drafts that the Falcons would go QB? :) Had to be tough for them not to go Dorsey there though really, but it just made more sense with a new coach to go with a QB he wanted rather than what was left behind. Hope it works out for Atlanta and Ryan. He seems like a really good young man, and Atlanta sure could use some good news for a change.

[JonInMiddleGA]

MJ4H, I think I found somebody who says its DMC's character that's the problem. This guy in Georgia, the middle part.

Along with virtually every person who has written about the guy for months.
I love this quote in particular, where one scout said "McFadden has elite football character"

Haven't I seen that phrase in another football player thread here earlier today?

[MJ4H]

I agree with the character issues being non-issues, but I haven't heard any experts call him the best RB to ever come through the draft. He certainly is the best this year. Have any links to where the call him the best to ever come through the draft?

Guy on the pre-draft show said he may be one of the best to ever come through the draft on ESPN.

[MJ4H]

Good pick Oakland. At least it wasn't Atlanta.

[Raiders Army]

Please trade Jordan and Rhodes now, thanks.

[Lathum]

I think Felix Jones has a better pro career then McFadden

[Raiders Army]

Well, at least Madden will be fun to play this year.

[Swaggs]

Four picks in 28-minutes.

I'm liking this.

[Lathum]

dola-I don't really think that, I just wanna get MJ4H fired up

[Noop]

I like that Raider hat he matches my shoes.

[MJ4H]

I think Felix Jones has a better pro career then McFadden

Doubt it, but I wouldn't count out the possibility. A lot of people don't realize how good Felix Jones really is. The biggest question is his durability because he's never been the guy.

[MJ4H]

dola-I don't really think that, I just wanna get MJ4H fired up

haha I love them both.

[Eaglesfan27]

Four picks in 28-minutes.

I'm liking this.

Agreed. I hated the start time (and having the first 4 picks essential confirmed before the broadcast) but I love the 10 minutes per pick as the flow is much better.

[Dunleavy]

KCC and NOS have make a trade here right? unless NOS already traded there 2nd (behind close doors) for Shockey

[MJ4H]

Id like to see KC pick up Dorsey here.

[Lathum]

KCC and NOS have make a trade here right? unless NOS already traded there 2nd (behind close doors) for Shockey

JB, is that you?

[JonInMiddleGA]

What a shock, you're going to trot the old "of course you'd defend him" line because you have no leg to stand on. His "ethical" lapses are nothing of the sort and will have no effect on his football career.

I have absolutely no problem standing on the basis of the facts.

-- His involvement in his brother's nightclub incidents is a character issue
-- Having children by three different women (or two if the first is lying) is a character issue
-- Having to be sued over paternal responsibilities is a character issue.

And this isn't the first time we've seen you reveal your own lack of character defending the indefensible simply because Hawg U is involved.

[st.cronin]

Its got to be annoying for Arkansas fans that Jones left early too.

[Dunleavy]

did KCC turn down the 10th, a 2nd this year and a 1st next year from NOS? seemed like a fair offer for a team completly rebuilding

[Swaggs]

KC is on their way to an "A" draft grade.

Great luck and great pick.

[Lathum]

I really wish they wouldn't show the guy celebrating on the phone before the pick is made. It totaly kills any suspense there may be.

[DaddyTorgo]

I really wish they wouldn't show the guy celebrating on the phone before the pick is made. It totaly kills any suspense there may be.

agreed

although with dorsey you couldn't tell - he seemed way more reserved

[JAG]

did KCC turn down the 10th, a 2nd this year and a 1st next year from NOS? seemed like a fair offer for a team completly rebuilding

More than fair to me. It's possible NO will make the pick KC wants at 10 before doing the trade.

[MJ4H]

I have absolutely no problem standing on the basis of the facts.

-- His involvement in his brother's nightclub incidents is a character issue



no it isn't.



-- Having children by three different women (or two if the first is lying) is a character issue



not one that involves or will affect football. I agree that this is a blemish on his overall character, but to say this will affect his NFL career is just, frankly, stupid.


-- Having to be sued over paternal responsibilities is a character issue.



he has not run from these responsibilities. he has faced them head on.

And this isn't the first time we've seen you reveal your own lack of character defending the indefensible simply because Hawg U is involved.


This isn't the first time we've seen you act like an ass when you don't know what you're talking about and blame it on blindness to a university. I could sit here and take your shit, but the fact is you don't have a fucking clue. You are wrong about this and you were wrong about Bobby Petrino.

Frankly I don't give a shit whether you like it or not. It is amusing to watch you shit your pants whenever you get challenged on an issue though. Particularly one where you clearly don't know as much about as others involved. Keep tossing the shit around though.

[Ryche]

More than fair to me. It's possible NO will make the pick KC wants at 10 before doing the trade.


Yeah, could be contingent on who is there at 10.

[kcchief19]

KC is on their way to an "A" draft grade.

Great luck and great pick.
I'm withholding judgment until No. 17. If Clady falls to there as some project, we'll be on our way to that A grade. I'm afraid we're going to take Branden Albert if he's there -- and taking a college guard and making him a tackle isn't a good idea.

[MJ4H]

Its got to be annoying for Arkansas fans that Jones left early too.

Not really annoying, no. We all knew it was coming for the biggest part of the season. These guys are both stars and we got a lot of good out of them (though most of the "good" was just prolonging Nutt's tenure rather than any real good). We are mostly happy to see them making good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

MJ4H -- Not only am I not wrong about any of those things, but I also wasn't wrong when I correctly nailed your lack of character during the Petrino incident.
You are precisely what I knew you were - devoid of character and a truly pathetic excuse for a human being.

[Swaggs]

I'm withholding judgment until No. 17. If Clady falls to there as some project, we'll be on our way to that A grade. I'm afraid we're going to take Branden Albert if he's there -- and taking a college guard and making him a tackle isn't a good idea.

Even if Albert "only" ends up as a guard, that will still be a solid pick, in my opinion.

[kcchief19]

No real surprises in the first six picks, maybe just some question about the order of Dorsey/Gholston/Long. New England begins the real question marks.

[JetsIn06]

Welcome to NY Vernon!

[MJ4H]

And you are precisely what I knew you were. An asshole that can't stand someone pointing out why they are wrong. Notice that you are the one that started making this personal. Notice that you haven't rebutted any of the counterpoints I made to your points. Also notice that since you can't actually discuss anything brought up intelligently without turning it into a personal attack douchebag conversation, you are permanently ignored, and I hope you choke on your own crusty cigarette smoked black lungs you fucking prick.

[Lathum]

MJ4H -- Not only am I not wrong about any of those things, but I also wasn't wrong when I correctly nailed your lack of character during the Petrino incident.
You are precisely what I knew you were - devoid of character and a truly pathetic excuse for a human being.

we get your point. now please stop causing problems

[kcchief19]

Even if Albert "only" ends up as a guard, that will still be a solid pick, in my opinion.
But a first round pick on a guard? Not sure I can live with that value. I just can't see taking even the best interior o-linemen in the first round, especially when both RT and LT are disasters.

[Sublime 2]

Nice...Pats trade down!

[Eaglesfan27]

I wonder if the Saints take Sedrick Ellis here?

[Dunleavy]

what did they have to give up

btw Albert looks like a really good prospect, better then Clady imho.

[Arles]

Great move by NE to move down. There are 2-3 good corners here.

[MikeVic]

So I can't find a channel here that's showing it. Fuck this late start time.

Whenever I refresh NFL.com's live tracking, picks are sometimes missing, then show up, then disappear. Great going NFL. :(

[Eaglesfan27]

YES! Another USC guy on the Saints. Making it more fun to root for my adopted team. :)

[Swaggs]

But a first round pick on a guard? Not sure I can live with that value. I just can't see taking even the best interior o-linemen in the first round, especially when both RT and LT are disasters.

Agreed, but even sure thing OTs can be busts. You give Albert a shot at LT for two seasons, but if he isn't up to it, you hope he can be a solid OG starter (I know the Steelers love him as an OG).

[Lathum]

So I can't find a channel here that's showing it. Fuck this late start time.

Whenever I refresh NFL.com's live tracking, picks are sometimes missing, then show up, then disappear. Great going NFL. :(

espn?

[Sublime 2]

Wow...The Jags vaulting up to #8

[Dunleavy]

another trade, Jac up from 26! yo!

[st.cronin]

Jenkins is the corner I hope NE gets.

[Lathum]

try here mike

hxxp://channelsurfing.net/

[kcchief19]

Big move by Jacksonville. Gotta be Derrick Harvey.

[st.cronin]

Derrick Harvey at 8?

[Dunleavy]

wow NOS got a really good deal. dealt a 3 for and got a 5 back

[Swaggs]

This has to include an '09 #1, no?

[Arles]

Pats get #10 and NO's 3rd
NO gets #7 and NE's 5th

Good trade for NE

[st.cronin]

I like that deal for NE. They may be able to get somebody like Godfrey from Iowa in the 3rd.

[Sublime 2]

This gives the Pats three 3rd rounders correct?

[JetsIn06]

This has to include an '09 #1, no?

Yea I would think it had to. No way you can move from 26 to 8 using only this years picks.

[Dunleavy]

Pats get #10 and NO's 3rd
NO gets #7 and NE's 5th

Good trade for NE


it's a win win deal but thats great value for NOS

[Eaglesfan27]

Crazy move by Jacksonville.

[st.cronin]

Harvey should be good, I like that pick for Jacksonville.

[Swaggs]

If I were a prospect, I think I would turn off my cell phone while Cincy is on the clock.

[14ers]

New Orleans really got a great deal in getting Sedric Ellis. HE was the last of the top tier players. I had 5 guys in this years draft who could of all gone #1 overall and Ellis was one of them.


I think the Patriots got hosed in this trade when you consider the talent of Sedric Ellis vs what will still be available at #10. And to do this move and only having to swap your 3rd for a 5th is a steal for New Orleans.

[Dunleavy]

rivers goes 9

CB to the pats at 10

KCC trades up for Albert at 11?

[kcchief19]

I don't see Harvey being a reach really. I think Harvey and Merling are the the best DEs left and both would be gone by No. 26. I can still see 2-3 teams going DE between now and even No. 20. If he's the guy you want, you gotta make a deal at some point, since I didn't see Harvey sliding past maybe No. 13.


Unfortunately for my draft picks, I think Baltimore will end up with Brian Brohm -- just not where I picked him to go. :)

[Thomkal]

Be interesting to see who my beloved Cards go with at #16. For a long time now I thought it had to be RB, but now it seems like they are going to go CB. Rumors are still out there too about trading Boldin to the Cowboys for one (?) of their first rounders. Hope that doesn't happen. Bit excited too that the Cards are interested in local product WR Jerome Simpson from Coastal Carolina

[JetsIn06]

Wow

Says Ravens got two 3's and a 4. WTF?

[Lathum]

wow, no '09 pick from the Jags

[Eaglesfan27]

Harvey should be good, I like that pick for Jacksonville.

His production was subpar for a few years. He might be good, but he is far from a sure thing and to trade away a future #1 (which I'm assuming they had to do - about to see the details now) for a risky player seems like a bad move to me.

Now, that I see they didn't give up a future 1st, I don't dislike the trade as much.

[st.cronin]

I have a feeling at least one of Ellis or Rivers will be very disappointing. USC's defense was very good, but to have TWO top 10 players?

[JetsIn06]

Dola

Again, how do you move up from 26 to 8 without giving up a 1st next year?

[Arles]

it's a win win deal but thats great value for NOS

If you look at the new chart some teams now use, you get this going to NE:

10+78 = 3900 points

They sent this to NO:

7+164 = 3076

Anyway you slice it, great deal for NE

[DaddyTorgo]

New Orleans really got a great deal in getting Sedric Ellis. HE was the last of the top tier players. I had 5 guys in this years draft who could of all gone #1 overall and Ellis was one of them.


I think the Patriots got hosed in this trade when you consider the talent of Sedric Ellis vs what will still be available at #10. And to do this move and only having to swap your 3rd for a 5th is a steal for New Orleans.

consider the cost-saving too though? maybe you have to factor that in? although IMO I agree with you

[Swaggs]

Although I wouldn't be overly excited about Harvey, it doesn't seem like Jax gave up that much to move up as far as they did.

[Thomkal]

lol at the no reaction at the Bengals draft party after they announced the pick

[Thomkal]

Man Ravens got a steal with that trade.

[molson]

I think the Patriots got hosed in this trade when you consider the talent of Sedric Ellis vs what will still be available at #10. And to do this move and only having to swap your 3rd for a 5th is a steal for New Orleans.

The Pats weren't going to take Ellis there anyway - the Saints knew it and made a good trade.

The Pats upgrade from a 5th to a 3rd, and save some cap cash by picking the guy they would have taken at #7 at #10. It ain't much, but it's a value play.

[JetsIn06]

lol at the no reaction at the Bengals draft party after they announced the pick

:D I saw this too. Wow. Talk about excited!

[MikeVic]

Thanks Lathum for the link. I click on NFL Draft links and ESPN, and get Speed channel though. :) I'll just follow it through here.

I don't have ESPN, and the three sports channels here are showing hockey, basketball, and table tennis.

[Arles]

BTW, it's a "BETA" chart some teams are looking at that adds value to the mid 1st to the 3rd.

[MikeVic]

Now it's mixed badminton lol...

[Dunleavy]

If you look at the new chart some teams now use, you get this going to NE:

10+78 = 3900 points

They sent this to NO:

7+164 = 3076

Anyway you slice it, great deal for NE

forget the trade chart. NOS gets a top player without giving up too much. NEP gets to move down, win win

[Eaglesfan27]

I have a feeling at least one of Ellis or Rivers will be very disappointing. USC's defense was very good, but to have TWO top 10 players?

They were the two best players on the defense, so I'm not surprised. The big problem with USC's defense last year was at cornerback.

[Dunleavy]

if you want a QB late 1 you better trade ahead of the ravens

[Sublime 2]

I wonder if the Pats make a surprise pick of Clady or Albert?

[st.cronin]

Curveball!

[Sublime 2]

Hmmm surprising.

[Arles]

Mayo's a GREAT fit for NE. Love the pick.

[Dunleavy]

the Lions wanted Harvey, backup plan Mayo. time for plan C

they need a RT or my boy mendenhall

[Arles]

Man, Mike Mayock is on fire. He's called both the Harvey and Mayo picks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mayo?? never heard of him...*shrug* okay

[MikeVic]

WR for Lions.

[Lathum]

try here Mike

http://www.nfl.com/draft/live

[MikeVic]

Thanks, how did I miss that!

[Lathum]

lol

[MikeVic]

McLovin lol.

[Dunleavy]

denver, rb or ol?

gotta be OL