"It seemed like a good idea at the time..." feature discussion

[spankdatazz22]

Not sure how interested anyone is in discussing individual aspects of the gameplay in more detail outside of the 2K9 suggestion list but figured I'd throw it out there since RR created a graphics thread yesterday. Feel free to add your own (if the thread generates any interest lol):

CHARGE SYSTEM: I think in theory the charge is a good idea, but it's also ripe for user abuse. Having a person "focus", or have to set himself to perform a more spectacular move (harder hit, better juke, etc.) makes sense, but the way it's implemented can be abused. For example, I think it's a good idea to be able to charge a QB to throw a more accurate pass. But, because he doesn't have to necessarily set himself - only move slightly slower - there's not enough of a risk/reward factor. One thing I've noticed online is some people begin running away from pressure by running backwards while charging and then throw. It doesn't irritate me (beat a pretty good guy yesterday that I was able to take out of his game) but it seems there's too much imbalance in risk (little) versus reward. Charging for a hit is the same, but the opposite - too much risk, little reward.

I thought with 2K6 they might take the approach they did with the basketball game and introduce an aggression modifier, which was to take the place of turbo. But in retrospect people use the aggression modifier in the same way they would have used turbo. I think the charge system could work but would need a lot of tweaking to balance (less effect on offense, more effect on defense). Or should the charge just go away? I say keep it but tweak to balance more.

CADENCE: A good idea in theory; too easy to abuse. This HAS to be tweaked. Offensive lineman will false start, but not often - it's usually much easier to pull the defense offsides. Which can be quite frustrating online. Hopefully this is something that's tweaked in a potential patch rather than waiting for the next APF. In general I think it's a good idea if it were tied more to the player's offensive line - if they had legends w/the appropriate leadership attribute then it would make your OL less likely to jump offsides. Only one legend lineman then you run a much greater risk of having someone false start. Same with the defensive line. Right now it's too stilted in favor of the offense. Should it stay or go? I say it should go. No matter how much they balance it, I think someone will find a workaround to frustrate other gamers.

[HotShot232]

Agree on both, I would write more in detail but I am about to go to lunch and get my grub on

Be back on in a hour or so.

[LBzrule]

Definitely agree on the Cadence. It's good for offline but a terrible idea for online. I don't like the player on the other guys offense having some special power to make my defenders do things and I have no control over it whatsoever.

My feelings on it

[Sausage]

For me the charge system is love/hate. It took some getting use to, but I am not in love with having to smash a to speed up or hold it to power up.

What I think can work is that the speed and power should be determined on the amount of pressure on the left analog stick. More pressure makes you run faster and pick momentum to a power move or finesse move.

I thought about this when reading about one of the hockey games that did away with turbo.

For the QB charge, I think is cool because it is definitely a risk, and not always a guaranteed reward when one does it right, I am good with it, even though I rarely use it.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

My feelings on it

Hilarious - laughed out loud on that one.

now you'll have to post a two snaps up pic if there's a on-the-fence feature you like

[Trevytrev11]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

CADENCE: A good idea in theory; too easy to abuse. This HAS to be tweaked. Offensive lineman will false start, but not often - it's usually much easier to pull the defense offsides. Which can be quite frustrating online. Hopefully this is something that's tweaked in a potential patch rather than waiting for the next APF. In general I think it's a good idea if it were tied more to the player's offensive line - if they had legends w/the appropriate leadership attribute then it would make your OL less likely to jump offsides. Only one legend lineman then you run a much greater risk of having someone false start. Same with the defensive line. Right now it's too stilted in favor of the offense. Should it stay or go? I say it should go. No matter how much they balance it, I think someone will find a workaround to frustrate other gamers.

Maybe they could incorporate a sytem where the user on defense had a button that he would use to have his offense jump. He could use this button if he wanted to anticipate a snap, etc. This would make him fully responsible for off-sides/encroachment calls.

If he didn't hit the button at all after the snap, the defense would react as it normally does in the game.

The Reward-Possibility to jump the snap, get instant pressure on QB/RB

The Risk-If he hard count's you, you may jump.

Also, instead of controlling the whole line (as it would look rediculous to see everyone jump at once), you could choose one linemen on every play even if you are selecting a DB (to accomplish this, there would have to be a button that would not be used at all during the play, and would only be used for the lineman).

So basically, you want to control your OLB, so you select him, then you have have a default lineman that you select (but can change on any play). Say the R-bumper isn't used at all on a defensive play. Well as soon as the ball is snapped, you would press the button to get a quick reaction from that defender. If you reacted to his fake count, you could be drawn offsides. If the two buttons weren't used, you could actually tell him to spin or swim at the line as his first move.

Just an idea.

[burnwood]

I don't like the way Candence is implemented either.

I would probably tweak it this way:

1) Make the QB's voice louder, but not obnoxious. Since you have legend QB's, record their voice for it.

2) Have some sort of cadence counter that you can set for the offense (specifically offensive line) before the snap. This way the offense knows the snap count and shouldn't snap the ball sooner or later. This would work great for trying to draw the defense offsides in a 3rd/4th and inches situation.

3) More movement from defensive players reacting to cadence, but not drawing non-player controlled characters offsides. Offline can be a different story.

4) Continue tweaking sideline awareness for offensive and defensive players.

5) Fix spot of the ball issues.

[Trevytrev11]

Quote: Originally Posted by burnwood

2) Have some sort of cadence counter that you can set for the offense (specifically offensive line) before the snap. This way the offense knows the snap count and shouldn't snap the ball sooner or later. This would work great for trying to draw the defense offsides in a 3rd/4th and inches situation.

I really like that idea a lot. Pick your play and then pick your snap count.